Lonely is Good

[Winter Fire]

Think about two types of people. One of them shares her problem with her friends while crying her eyes out. Her friends trying to find a solution to her problem and trying to calm her down. The other person faces her problems by herself. She sits with her pain, she goes inside and find her own answers. Who is wiser than the other one?

People can do both of those things.  Sometimes, you just need to "cry" it out with friends and then find your center again on your own.

Yes, people can do both. My point is that spending time alone really helps you find answers. I sometimes watch Life Below Zero and I see people living in very secluded places in that show and the way those people look at life impresses me. I think it's because they spend a lot of time alone.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Think about two types of people. One of them shares her problem with her friends while crying her eyes out. Her friends trying to find a solution to her problem and trying to calm her down. The other person faces her problems by herself. She sits with her pain, she goes inside and find her own answers. Who is wiser than the other one?

People can do both of those things.  Sometimes, you just need to "cry" it out with friends and then find your center again on your own.

Yes, people can do both. My point is that spending time alone really helps you find answers. I sometimes watch Life Below Zero and I see people living in very secluded places in that show and the way those people look at life impresses me. I think it's because they spend a lot of time alone.

I think it can go either way though.  It entirely depends on your outlook.  If you are negative, you will essentially wallow in self pity, whereas if you have a better outlook on life and focus on more positive things, you will be able to combat the loneliness and be okay.  I, personally, don't feel it matters how much time you spend alone.

 

[Winter Fire]

I think it can go either way though.  It entirely depends on your outlook.  If you are negative, you will essentially wallow in self pity, whereas if you have a better outlook on life and focus on more positive things, you will be able to combat the loneliness and be okay.  I, personally, don't feel it matters how much time you spend alone.

If you can't control your ego-mind, staying alone wouldn't change anything. You shouldn't focus on negative things or positive things. You should just stay with your pain. It has taught me so much about myself.

 

[August Campbell]

Social people can meditate too. You don't need to be a loner to meditate. You can take a break from your social life for 10 or 20 minutes a day to meditate. Isolation or being a hermit is different. It's an opportunity to understand life and your true identity. Think about two types of people. One of them shares her problem with her friends while crying her eyes out. Her friends trying to find a solution to her problem and trying to calm her down. The other person faces her problems by herself. She sits with her pain, she goes inside and find her own answers. Who is wiser than the other one?

Actually I solved my toughest problem on my own.  And it was the only way to do it because some problems are too personal to confide to others.  That's why I insist that lonely is good.

 

[August Campbell]

Of the Seven types of Loneliness that were listed in a previously linked article, I would add an 8th type, namely that of Buddhist Monks and Hermits who actually prefer solitude.  For them, lonely is good because it's their preference.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Dude, seriously. Buddhist monks are NOT NOT NOT lonely, they are ALONE. Well, some might be lonely, but you really need to learn the damn difference.

 

[August Campbell]

To settle the issue,Cal, I turned to my dictionary.  In fact, I have an actual physical copy of the American Heritage Dictionary.  In looking up the word "lonely," it says, and I quote "Characterized by aloneness."  So evidently "lonely" and "alone" overlap.  And in its 2nd definition it says "Saddened by the awareness of being alone."  So as it turns out, both of us are correct.  Because while loneliness can cause painful misery, lonely is also good as in the case of Buddhist monks who practice solitude preferentially.  So both of us are correct.

 

[August Campbell]

Another way that lonely can be good is from trying Astral Projection.  This is a spiritual skill where you try to do an Out-of-body-experience.  The disappointment is that apparently only some people succeed at it.  At the same time, it's also ironic when you consider Astral travels that happen Inadvertently.  In those cases, the people don't even know that they've done it.  This can be seen in cases where the person's friend says that he saw him someplace, and yet the person insists he was Never there.  What happened then was that it was actually his astral form that his friend had sighted.  So the astral projection had happened inadvertently during sleep.

Noteworthy are the cases with the Catholic Church, specifically the Catholic Saints such as Padre Pio.  The only difference is that the Catholics put a different label on it by calling it Bi-location, which means being in Two Places at the same time.

 

[Azariah]

coming to accept lonesomeness as a friend brings peace of mind. sometime I would walk by the beach in the morning, alone with my thoughts and the scenery.

 

[Just Games]

coming to accept lonesomeness as a friend brings peace of mind. sometime I would walk by the beach in the morning, alone with my thoughts and the scenery.

Well your a lucky boy then if you have come to a point when you can accept lonliness as a friend.I still think it's BS that it's good and at my age when I still feel it occasionally now it's still painfull .When I think back to the long periods of lonliness I suffered compared to the run these last months when I managed to distract and mix socially again with my broth and wife and their friends the reason I hit the booze in the past was totally about lonliness with maybe a small percentage of enjoying the effects of being drunk.I've been feeling it alot lately not being able to drive  and the wife working alot lately and it takes alot for me to not drink again and delay till the feeling subsides.So good luck to you mate because I could never say lonliness is good.
I see it with my oldest whose gone from tears of being lonely after being dumped by his ex....to laughing and smiling again because he's joined at the hip by his new one .He even said as he left for uni to make sure we look after his brother because he knows the pain he's going through.  As he gets older I will try and help him break down his lonliness because I can't let him go through the bad that is lonliness.It just ain't good and anyone that states it is deluded .

 

[August Campbell]

Increasingly nowadays I notice on YouTube that more and more folks have decided to live Off the Grid .  By that, I mean those who go to isolate in the wilderness to get away from the dog-eat-dog world.  Isolating in the wilderness, they have to survive primitively by living off the land, i.e., getting their food from fishing or hunting.  Impressive was that YouTube video of that lone man building a log cabin by himself and for himself.  Some use rifles to hunt for their food but a few go even more primitive by making their own bows and arrows for hunting.  Some of the folks are married couples but most of the videos showed Loners who prefer living alone.  They are contented living alone as they do.  So obviously, Lonely is Good.  So--have any of you considered living Off the Grid??

 

[TheSkaFish]

I feel like it's more trouble than it's worth. Cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you go off the grid, then you just trade a day job for the 24/7/365 job of survival. I feel like it doesn't result in more free time, or more access to fun things, an increased quality of life. It's not like you would have more time to do all the things you enjoy. It just trades one set of problems for another, which might actually be harder.

It might be what some people are actually seeking, I don't know. If I said it was objectively bad, I'd be speaking for others besides myself and I don't think I can do that. But I don't think it's the answer I'm looking for, myself.

 

[Sidewinder]

Living off the grid is tough, and it's certainly not for everybody. Here in Arizona, we have quite a few folks who live off grid, and I've spoken to a few of 'em... it's a tough way to live, but it has its rewards as well. IMHO, it's better (and easier) to compromise between the two lifestyles, and some of those folks did just that: they worked regular jobs but lived in a self-sufficient manner at home. Moi, I like my hot shower every morning, and all the other creature comforts, but I can appreciate how off-grid living brings one closer to Nature. Fortunately, I'm surrounded by wilderness areas here in rural Arizona, so I'm not that far away either, if you catch my drift. One can also have amenities off-grid...

Having said this, I'll share a crazy dream I once had, and still do to some extent: I always wanted to build my own adobe home on a parcel of mountain or high desert land with a stream running through it, or at the very least a well upon the property. It would totally personify the pioneer spirit, ya know? I understand how satisfying it would be to build my own home, I get why folks do this. But I also like this home I bought and fixed up, it's quite comfortable, and I'm not getting any younger either, so that dream may just remain a dream, which is okay. I still have a million stars overhead at night, I still breathe clean fresh high desert air every day, I still feel that excellent Arizona sunshine... the quality of the light here is amazing.

One thing about off-grid living: get too far away from 'civilization' (and supply points in particular), and your cost of living starts to rise once again. A hand can buy land dirt cheap in Arizona, but water is the key element when it comes to off-grid living. Parcels with wells or other water sources cost considerably more than the dry parcels, I know because I've looked into the whole scene. For me, a compromise works best: I live in 'Goat-Roping Central' where I'm surrounded by wilderness areas and great natural beauty, and I'm far enough away from the Big City to avoid all the problems associated with urban areas. However, I still have all the amenities I'll ever need... a pool would be nice, but there IS one in town.

I think TheSkaFish has it right: some may be into off-grid life, but it's not for everybody. Moi, I've done so much camping in the past, often living in the field for weeks at a time, that I realize how difficult it would be to maintain such a lifestyle. Back in the Old West, they weren't called "hardy pioneers" for nothing, lol. It was often a hardscrabble existence, a daily grind just to survive, let alone put away something for the future. But I see how living closer to Nature could be very rewarding... in my own case, I just happen to be close to wilderness areas ANYWAY, which is just how I wanted it to be when I bought this train wreck of a fixer home. Now my home is quite comfortable, and I still have wilderness access.

JUST MY $.02 HERE, ANYBODY SERIOUS ABOUT OFF-GRID LIVING SHOULD GO ON A WEEKLONG CAMPING TRIP IN A REMOTE WILDERNESS AREA... THAT'LL GIVE ONE A TASTE OF WHAT OFF-GRID LIVING IS LIKE. CHEERS!!! 

 

[August Campbell]

Does anybody else here practice Zen meditation?  It's through Zen meditation that one learns Non-attachment--Emotional Nonattachment, from which one learns that lonely is good.  The object is to eliminate emotions.  It can develop into the Extreme when it develops into Asceticism.  In the Winter, ascetics go out stripped down to just a loincloth, into the icy cold to meditate. That's already extremely harsh, but in the winter cold, they also meditate under a waterfall.  So as you develop Nonattachment, then at some point you realize that lonely is good.  So does anybody else here practice Zen Meditation??

 

[mgill]

Does anybody else here practice Zen meditation?  It's through Zen meditation that one learns Non-attachment--Emotional Nonattachment, from which one learns that lonely is good.  The object is to eliminate emotions.  It can develop into the Extreme when it develops into Asceticism.  In the Winter, ascetics go out stripped down to just a loincloth, into the icy cold to meditate. That's already extremely harsh, but in the winter cold, they also meditate under a waterfall.  So as you develop Nonattachment, then at some point you realize that lonely is good.  So does anybody else here practice Zen Meditation??

mediatation can be a decent distraction for some but is not the answer for everyone.  without emotions there is not much point to living.  it is the fact that we are forced to experience so many negative emotions because of our inferior physical traits that is the root of the issue.

 

[August Campbell]

meditation can be a decent distraction for some but is not the answer for everyone.  without emotions there is not much point to living.  it is the fact that we are forced to experience so many negative emotions because of our inferior physical traits that is the root of the issue.

Why do you say that you need emotions to have reason for living?  Emotions are Not necessary, because even without them, you still have your ability to think and make accomplishments.  It's the accomplishments that make life worthwhile--that's how science progresses.  
Emotions only cause problems.  For example, Infatuation, that is, a male getting a crush on a female.  Usually the female does Not like the male at all, and that rejection causes great anguish to the male.  In other words, it's the pain of attachment, emotional attachment.  That's why I stressed the Zen principle of Nonattachment.

 

[TheSkaFish]

meditation can be a decent distraction for some but is not the answer for everyone.  without emotions there is not much point to living. 

I agree with this. Without emotions, you go through life like a machine, or an inanimate object. But people aren't machines or objects. Emotions are a part of being alive.

---

Why do you say that you need emotions to have reason for living?  Emotions are Not necessary, because even without them, you still have your ability to think and make accomplishments.  It's the accomplishments that make life worthwhile--that's how science progresses.  

But that's the thing - if you don't have emotions, why would you want to think? Why would you want to have any accomplishments? Why would you care if science progressed or not? Why would anything matter to you one way or the other, if you don't care about anything because you've turned off your emotions?

I don't know. No offense, but I've never been able to tell the difference between Buddhism, and just giving up on life. Trying to numb oneself to misery, by resigning oneself to never escaping misery. It's always felt like quitting to me.

I don't think lonely is good, any more than I think sick is good. If you're feeling emotional pain, it's like physical pain, it's telling you that something is wrong, that there is some problem you need to address. And I feel like if relationships were so optional, such a trivial luxury, and if loneliness was so good, you would see more people choosing to forgo relationships, if loneliness were indeed the superior experience. Or at least they wouldn't care enough about relationships to pursue them. But you don't see that. You see the opposite. In fact people will go to extreme measures to escape it.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm shooting down your ideas or your thread, and I will leave it if you'd like, but I guess I just don't get it. I think and feel differently.

 

[TheSkaFish]

For someone who are lonely and don't have the natural attraction to being that, then it's pretty hard for them to perceive it differently. Someone with cancer can still say that he's lucky since he doesn't have aids but yeah. It's a dodged bullet for sure but it doesn't help the main issue at all. The cancer is still there eating up his insides. 
Being grateful for what you do have is important but tying that to dealing with something that's a big big issue doesn't always work.
Especially when the issue is loneliness.

Loneliness isn't the same thing as going into the woods for solitude.  Solitude I believe is a choice, loneliness isn't - there is pain in loneliness, relief in solitude.

I don't believe lonely is a good thing.  Sure, you can make the most of any situation, but it never compensates for the pain caused by loneliness. We're talking apples and oranges when comparing loneliness to being alone. There are a great many people, probably the majority of lonely people out there, are lonely for reasons they can't control, and any amount of meditation isn't going to be the snake oil they're looking for.  Any self-improvement is a positive use for the alone time, but does it make the loneliness go away?  I'd like to hear from a lonely person on this forum who is lonely for reasons I mentioned, and if there is some sort of life system they're using to dull the pain.

When I speak about loneliness and the pain many struggle with, the examples are too many to list.  We aren't talking about being alone here, I'm referring to social isolation some people are trapped in, and have no idea how to get out.  Seeing others enjoying things like romantic relationships, having a group of friends, helll - even having ONE friend to talk to.  Being invited out clubbing, to other homes for dinner and game nights, the list goes on - and there they are alone and that weight sometimes hurts. It's much like a person starving to death - and the suggestion of meditation to me sounds like Peter Pan telling his band to imagine a table full of food, and then it appears.  A starving person can smell the scent of a Big Mac probably so much better than a person who just ate lunch.  It doesn't help take the pain away, it just increases a sense of desire.

^I agree with all of these as well. There is a huge difference between choosing solitude because you want to, and having the power to choose to end your solitude when you want to - and having loneliness forced on you, with no power over when it will end, all the while wondering if you will ever escape and get to experience fundamental experiences of being alive that you see people all around you taking for granted as a given, normal part of life, and wondering why you seem to be frozen out of those experiences. One feels like a choice, while the other feels like a sentence, or a limit placed on your quality of life. Having the power of choice is what makes all the difference.

---

I think Stephen Hawking is needed in hell. Everybody down there is super depressed about it and don't want to do any work. So, the devil can point to Stephen Hawking and say, you think you've got it bad. Think about him. Now shovel some more damn coal.

This actually made me burst out laughing picturing it! Thanks for that

 

[RandomFella]

Was reading through the last two pages here. August Campbell, I think it's great that you bring new ideas and concepts to this thread everyone can talk about, even though the ideas don't receive much approval. In the end it makes us all think about what is really important to us.
About zen meditation, I didn't try it, nor do I think that this is what I'm looking for. If I would lose all my emotions (which I made the experience with already), I would lose the will to live, this is where I have to agree with the others. I wouldn't care about accomplishments, they wouldn't make me happy. Even food tastes like nothing. Only emptiness remains.

I think it's super interesting how everything is connected. We can choose between positive emotions, negative emotions and emptiness. I imagine them as 3 different roads and the further we go down one road, the more we leave behind the two others. Someone who couldn't make a decision yet, might try every path, returns, and has a taste of them all. That's pretty chaotic.

Personally, I feel empty towards many things. There are more things that don't fit to my nature than the other way around. This is basically fate and can't be changed. if I try to make it possible, it only leads to misery. But when knowing our true nature, the (possibly) few things are all we need.
Also, I don't think that people who choose different paths get along well. I want positivity, I'm pretty far down this road. And then we have, let's say, a hater. I wouldn't get along with them. And vice versa.
Emptiness, I imagine it as a black hole. I want positivity, which means I want "something". But emptiness is nothingness. My positivity wouldn't have an effect on it and it gives me a taste of emptiness too. I think depression is like this too.

All of this super interesting to think about. The world is very chaotic, everything changes constantly. Which means if someone wants be part of it, they would have to accept this chaos. We would constantly meet people on either of these 3 roads. And there is no guarantee that things will stay the same. (Non-)Attachment is very important here. If I don't feel attachment, I don't have emotions towards this thing altogether. I can only attach to people on the same road. It might sound cold or cruel, but the other roads have no worth to me. I feel empty towards them.
Personally, to me it's always nicer to have friendly people around. Because the right people add to what is already there. I'm starting to see a life in solitude as a safety measure. Being able to live like this, happily, is a huge blessing. But we should never forget that everything will very likely change. I think it's only possible to attach to people as long as they stay on the same road. Maybe it sounds sad. It would be great to have life-long friends, but it is rather unlikely. So, safety measure! :')

 

[TheRealCallie]

Personally, I feel empty towards many things. There are more things that don't fit to my nature than the other way around. This is basically fate and can't be changed. if I try to make it possible, it only leads to misery. But when knowing our true nature, the (possibly) few things are all we need.
Also, I don't think that people who choose different paths get along well. I want positivity, I'm pretty far down this road. And then we have, let's say, a hater. I wouldn't get along with them. And vice versa.
Emptiness, I imagine it as a black hole. I want positivity, which means I want "something". But emptiness is nothingness. My positivity wouldn't have an effect on it and it gives me a taste of emptiness too. I think depression is like this too.

I have to disagree about the fate thing.  I feel most things can be changed, you just have to figure out which way works for you and be completely honest with yourself about how you really feel and what you really want. 
It almost seems like you are hiding behind positivity, like a "fake it til you make it" kind of thing.  Just my opinion of course, but it sounds like you are looking for a utopia, which wouldn't work.  It would be boring because there would be no real differences.  How can you have positivity without negativity?  How can you have happiness if you don't know pain?  It's all (again, in my opinion) two sides of the same coin, you can't have one without the other.

Which brings me to what you said about different paths not getting along.  I have to really disagree with this one.  I have several friends who have many different beliefs and outlooks than I do.  It's not a matter agreeing about everything, having the same outlook in life, having the same goals in life.  It's about being mature human beings.  Being able to agree to disagree.  Being able to enjoy each others company and leave the ******** out of it.  If someone can't put aside differences to be there for someone that they are supposed to care about, they weren't really your friend and they didn't care about you all that much to begin with.