Man logic vs woman "logic"

[SophiaGrace]

The root cause is actually the episode in their past that caused them to become a serial killer (if in fact one episode in isolation can do this which I doubt, there will be other issues)

Pain and hatred will therefore be symptoms of a root cause. To my knowledge the OP has not gone so far as to become a serial killer and like most symptoms their's can probably be helped given a chance to let off some steam and some good advice.

It's on a spectrum of bitterness and pain i guess, with serial killer being one aspect at an extreme end of that.

 

[Felix]

Need to talk about this but have no one to in real life besides my shrink who is old and doesn't quite get how things are these days between sexes.

So I'm in this group, mostly composed by women (6 to 4). We always argue... it can get a bit too dramatic at times. We share points of view, and we the man always have to be the understanding ones cuz girls just aren't.

Now that I've read books about it, and experienced it myself so many times, I'm convinced of this... The ways the female brain "reasons" are different than ours... And I put quotes cuz a reason based on emotions can't be reason...

I'm just ******* tired. It's always the same. I've been too nice. Way too polite. The thing is the other dudes are too ******* beta to do anything about it, more than me. At least I stand up to them but they are more so it's unfair.

I'm trying form something with this dude on my group who is a reasonable human being. If I can form a group with him and other men I feel that'd be awsome for both my career and my steem.

I'm done with this. Next time they try to pull a stunt like this again I'll just thell them the truth: they're both unsatisfied hysterical women. The 2 that bother the most are a virgin and the other has a weird bf who ***** her once in a while. They clearly need to be sexually fullfilled yet they refuse to get it. Which is a shame since they're cool girls but that's the way it is, its their own choice. I'm not some dumpster for them to express thier sexual frustration, sadly it came down to this today.

Since my father was gone all I had was my mother and she had the great idea of giving advice... So wrong... Trust me all the men in this forum when I say women don't know what they want and their advice sucks ass.

So that's my rant ... I wouldn't have done it but I really need to let it out at least with this. I know it might be a bit agressive, hope no one gets offended, is not my intention. Girls, appreciate the honsety... most men will think this and wont tell you

What you are calling "logic" is actually communication strategies. Women have exactly the same sort of capability for logic as men, although we tend to sort things via an emotional framework and express them as such.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the logical reasoning process of fully half the world's population, and there is nothing wrong with men's emotional capacities. Think of it like this, it is as though men and women speak slightly different languages.

Also, either by nature or by socialization, when confronted with a problem, men's focus tends to be more linear, as in "See a problem, work directly toward a solution;" women's focus, again, either through nature or socialization, tends to be around relationships between the disparate groups. To this end, emotions come in. Women may want to consider people's feelings about the problem, because this can give insight into the problem and the best solution, or because it is our perceived "job" to nurture. Don't think that women's reasoning ability to find the best solution to a problem is faulty; it is simply a different tactic.


One is not better than the other; they are just different ways of approaching things.

And yes, much of what you wrote over-generalized and seemed meant to cause offense.

You make good points, I appreciate your contribution...

 

[Barbaloot]

What the **** is this ****?

'a herp derp, women are so irrational and hysterical, they are incapable of reason and all they clearly need is to be ******.'

Seriously? So asinine misogyny is perfectly OK, but god forbid someone makes a thread about toilet paper. Makes sense.

 

[kamya]

What the **** is this ****?

'a herp derp, women are so irrational and hysterical, they are incapable of reason and all they clearly need is to be ******.'

Seriously? So asinine misogyny is perfectly OK, but god forbid someone makes a thread about toilet paper. Makes sense

Look out guys, we've got a badass over here.

Thanks for your extremely enlightening post.

 

[Barbaloot]

What the **** is this ****?

'a herp derp, women are so irrational and hysterical, they are incapable of reason and all they clearly need is to be ******.'

Seriously? So asinine misogyny is perfectly OK, but god forbid someone makes a thread about toilet paper. Makes sense

Look out guys, we've got a badass over here.

Oh please. I am fed up with this misogynistic nonsense that comes from so many of the male contributors on ALL (including yourself there, buddy) and yet I continually see NOTHING done about it. "Oh, he's just blowing off steam" - no, he is negatively stereotyping women in a way I think most women would find at least mildly offensive - but maybe that's just because women are so hysterical and irrational with their 'logic' in quotation marks. They just need a good, hard ****, then maybe they'd have some sense, right?

Was there a point to this thread other than what I alluded to? It's just another misogynistic rant among many here. And I find it ridiculous that misogyny is tolerated here while other much more mundane matters are not.

But I like how you took the time to add more to your post, I guess we couldn't have gathered from your original statement that you didn't appreciate what I said.

 

[IambicBlonde]

Hey, Barb! I'd file it under: any attention, even bad attention, is good attention. That or a lot of guys here haven't figured out that communication with girls has evolved past schoolyard taunts and verbal pulling of the hair. And yet women respond to these posts, as they justifiably should, and maybe these guys get an infuriated pm out of it. Oh, and out of curiosity, were you just making a point or DID you start a thread about toilet paper? I wouldn't put it past you. ;-)

 

[The Good Citizen]

Saying he is letting off steam doesn't mean anyone supports his view. I don't see much support for what he said in the thread, however the argument from some, myself included is at times both genders can become frustrated with the opposite sex and look to generalise. And a bit of open, rational discussion can set people right and change their view. We are human and prone to outbursts aren't we?

I agree though, rereading the views expressed, they could be viewed as mildly offensive and probably more deeprooted than at first glance.

However probably the all guns blazing response of 'what the **** is this ****', "so many men" on this board are closet "misogynists" who hold the view that "women are so hysterical and irrational" "They just need a good, hard ****, then maybe they'd have some sense" probably wasn't the best way to put your point across.

It seemed dare I say it slightly.."hysterical" and alluding to the sweeping generalisation of the opposite sex that you are trying to condemn.

It just seems your shooting your own underlying fair and valid point in the foot by how you've expressed it.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Saying he is letting off steam doesn't mean anyone supports his view. I don't see much support for what he said in the thread, however the argument from some, myself included is at times both genders can become frustrated with the opposite sex and look to generalise. And a bit of open, rational discussion can set people right and change their view. We are human and prone to outbursts aren't we?

I agree though, rereading the views expressed, they could be viewed as mildly offensive and probably more deeprooted than at first glance.

However probably the all guns blazing response of 'what the **** is this ****', "so many men" on this board are closet "misogynists" who hold the view that "women are so hysterical and irrational" "They just need a good, hard ****, then maybe they'd have some sense" probably wasn't the best way to put your point across.

It seemed dare I say it slightly.."hysterical" and alluding to the sweeping generalisation of the opposite sex that you are trying to condemn.

It just seems your shooting your own underlying fair and valid point in the foot by how you've expressed it.

priceless, flawless delivery

 

[Barbaloot]

Hey, Barb! I'd file it under: any attention, even bad attention, is good attention. That or a lot of guys here haven't figured out that communication with girls has evolved past schoolyard taunts and verbal pulling of the hair. And yet women respond to these posts, as they justifiably should, and maybe these guys get an infuriated pm out of it. Oh, and out of curiosity, were you just making a point or DID you start a thread about toilet paper? I wouldn't put it past you. ;-)

Haha, no, it wasn't my thread. You do have a point though - but it does make it difficult to distinguish whining, attention-seeking misogynist from an actual troll. And yet I was still apparently supposed to take the thread seriously and not just view it as another continuation of the 'post misogynistic rant/wait for other misogynists to join in' cycle.

 

[kamya]

What the **** is this ****?

'a herp derp, women are so irrational and hysterical, they are incapable of reason and all they clearly need is to be ******.'

Seriously? So asinine misogyny is perfectly OK, but god forbid someone makes a thread about toilet paper. Makes sense

Look out guys, we've got a badass over here.

Oh please. I am fed up with this misogynistic nonsense that comes from so many of the male contributors on ALL (including yourself there, buddy) and yet I continually see NOTHING done about it. "Oh, he's just blowing off steam" - no, he is negatively stereotyping women in a way I think most women would find at least mildly offensive - but maybe that's just because women are so hysterical and irrational with their 'logic' in quotation marks. They just need a good, hard ****, then maybe they'd have some sense, right?

Was there a point to this thread other than what I alluded to? It's just another misogynistic rant among many here. And I find it ridiculous that misogyny is tolerated here while other much more mundane matters are not.

But I like how you took the time to add more to your post, I guess we couldn't have gathered from your original statement that you didn't appreciate what I said.

Calm down. Yes, it was just a rant. And yes he did say a few things that could offend some people, and some things that could be flawed, but does that make his whole post pointless and flawed?

Also, seriously? I'm misogynistic?

Misogyny ( /mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred of women or girls. According to feminist theory, misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.

I'm pretty sure I don't hate women or girls. In fact it's pretty much the opposite. Even the rest of the definition wouldn't paint me as misogynist.
Either way, in order to go by the "feminist" theory part of that definition, I would have to be a supporter of feminism, which I'm not. No, this doesn't make me misogynist. Show me some cause that supports equal rights, then maybe I will have something to get behind.

 

[Barbaloot]

Saying he is letting off steam doesn't mean anyone supports his view. I don't see much support for what he said in the thread, however the argument from some, myself included is at times both genders can become frustrated with the opposite sex and look to generalise. And a bit of open, rational discussion can set people right and change their view. We are human and prone to outbursts aren't we?

I agree though, rereading the views expressed, they could be viewed as mildly offensive and probably more deeprooted than at first glance.

However probably the all guns blazing response of 'what the **** is this ****', "so many men" on this board are closet "misogynists" who hold the view that "women are so hysterical and irrational" "They just need a good, hard ****, then maybe they'd have some sense" probably wasn't the best way to put your point across.

It seemed dare I say it slightly.."hysterical" and alluding to the sweeping generalisation of the opposite sex that you are trying to condemn.

It just seems your shooting your own underlying fair and valid point in the foot by how you've expressed it.

Hysterical? No. Irritated? Yes. Forgive me for putting what he said in cruder terms, but they were his ideas.
I am not generalizing men, I would never say all men are misogynistic, nor that all men on ALL are misogynistic. I am stating that, in my history of being here, there are a lot of males on ALL who are misogynistic, some much, much worse than the OP, and this thread just comes in a long line of misogynistic rants that I have grown tired of. I don't have any tolerance for it, I will never understand why such blatant misogyny is permitted here.

 

[Sci-Fi]

Alright cut it out, jeez.

 

[Barbaloot]

Alright cut it out, jeez.

K, I'll make trouble elsewhere.

 

[The Good Citizen]

Saying he is letting off steam doesn't mean anyone supports his view. I don't see much support for what he said in the thread, however the argument from some, myself included is at times both genders can become frustrated with the opposite sex and look to generalise. And a bit of open, rational discussion can set people right and change their view. We are human and prone to outbursts aren't we?

I agree though, rereading the views expressed, they could be viewed as mildly offensive and probably more deeprooted than at first glance.

However probably the all guns blazing response of 'what the **** is this ****', "so many men" on this board are closet "misogynists" who hold the view that "women are so hysterical and irrational" "They just need a good, hard ****, then maybe they'd have some sense" probably wasn't the best way to put your point across.

It seemed dare I say it slightly.."hysterical" and alluding to the sweeping generalisation of the opposite sex that you are trying to condemn.

It just seems your shooting your own underlying fair and valid point in the foot by how you've expressed it.

Hysterical? No. Irritated? Yes. Forgive me for putting what he said in cruder terms, but they were his ideas.
I am not generalizing men, I would never say all men are misogynistic, nor that all men on ALL are misogynistic. I am stating that, in my history of being here, there are a lot of males on ALL who are misogynistic, some much, much worse than the OP, and this thread just comes in a long line of misogynistic rants that I have grown tired of. I don't have any tolerance for it, I will never understand why such blatant misogyny is permitted here.

Thats a fair response.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Forgive me for putting what he said in cruder terms, but they were his ideas.

Oh. Now I see why I couldnt find that quote anywhere.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

As a stereotype, men tend to be more logical, and women tend to be more emotional. Of course, this isn't a stereotype that is grounded in reality. Some men are more emotional, and some women are more logical.

I don't find it misogynistic to say that some women are illogical, because they are. So are some men. I do, however, find it sexist to state all women are illogical and throw them all into one box, because they aren't.

 

[tangerinedream]

Hysterical? No. Irritated? Yes. Forgive me for putting what he said in cruder terms, but they were his ideas.

I am not generalizing men, I would never say all men are misogynistic, nor that all men on ALL are misogynistic. I am stating that, in my history of being here, there are a lot of males on ALL who are misogynistic, some much, much worse than the OP, and this thread just comes in a long line of misogynistic rants that I have grown tired of. I don't have any tolerance for it, I will never understand why such blatant misogyny is permitted here.

Yep.

Extremely rare are the posts here from women stating that all men are worthless cheating pigs, but I have seen loads of posts from "angry young men" going off about how wretched all women are, whether it's because we're superficial, shallow whores, or that we always all go for alphas or that we never give the nice shy guys a chance. Then some of us women here go on to post that no, it really isn't that way and here's why... but it never ends. And every time one angry young man is banned, some new one eventually pops up, like the head on some misogynistic hydra.

Yeah, so sure, it's a sign of immaturity, but some of the posters were pretty hateful. I don't give a **** how angry and frustrated they were - that merely provides an explanation for the emotions, but it still does not excuse the behavior: hatred for and hateful remarks aimed at half the population.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

As a stereotype, men tend to be more logical, and women tend to be more emotional. Of course, this isn't a stereotype that is grounded in reality. Some men are more emotional, and some women are more logical.

I don't find it misogynistic to say that some women are illogical, because they are. So are some men. I do, however, find it sexist to state all women are illogical and throw them all into one box, because they aren't.

Awl-righty. I find this "stereotype" needs to be updated. My reason being that I have found many men to be just as emotional and sometimes downright insne as they claim women to be.
You're right. I don't find it misogynistic to say SOME women are illogical, however, I do find it misogynistic to pass that women TEND to be illogical. Furthermore, this is a stereotype that is thrown at women constantly in both general life and even within the confines of this forum.

Furthermore, I don't think it's even logic we're talking about here. It's rationality. Emotions do render a person irrational which may cloud logic, but it makes the person no less capable of making a logical decision once they've calmed down. How many men have historically battled, murdered, and destroyed for purely emotional reasons? A LOT. Even so much that I honestly can't understand why men don't have the title of being most emotional. Possibly because these emotions are covered up by the mindset that men are SUPPOSED to communicate through brute force. That's supposed to be the "natural way." No. In nature, force is used for the hunt, protection, and for territory; not for emotions. What human males display is violent, EMOTIONAL, irrational behavior. Now, boys, raise your hand if you've ever punched a wall, broken an object, or knocked a person out because they said or did something you didn't like. Hmmm.

And, yes, women can be irrational too - women can create beautifully elaborate, diabolical schemes to totally obliterate their enemies because of something as ridiculous as a break-up! Do women TYPICALLY go through all that trouble? No. That's the mess you see on TV (by the way, it's illogical to think all that ******** is real. Hmmmmmm.)
No, women just cry and scream and eat themselves into oblivion until they feel better. Otherwise, they keep it all in and put on a poker face until they explode (same as men). Does it make them illogical at all? No, just irrational.

Neither of these are an invalid expression of emotion but to be honest the latter is less destructive. Still, NEITHER proves that one sex is less capable of logical thinking than the other.

However, men continue to fault women's logic on the grounds that women are emotional. Perhaps we're so emotional because we're sick of men oppressing our judgment in that way.
Besides, men are the ones notorious for frontlining mindless entertainment (*******, anyone?), ridiculous inventions, and the "Just because we can" attitude. On the other hand, women are notorious for their wit, analyzation skills, and the need to always ask "but why?"

Anyway, that's just on a general front. This whole 'women's "logic"' nonsense has very little basis, and any evidence you can use to prove a fault in women's logic can just as easily be used on men.

And, on a side note, I am absolutely offended by the discredit of female logic by the use of quotation marks in the thread title and I haven't even read the first post (not that I really need to, considering I'm replying to LeaningIntoTheMuse, but I might read it anyway to validate my offense). It is true that this forum seems to be a male majority and all this hate towards women, many of which are one hundred times worse than what's been displayed in this thread, makes it difficult for us to feel welcome. Sure, women do the same thing - *cough* you know who - I don't know anything about a toilet paper thread but don't you think it's better to express your feelings about a PARTICULAR situation than slamming a whole gender just to "vent"? That goes for everyone, not just the male population here. It's no longer just a frustration towards the opposite gender. I have seen threads in the past that were truly misogynistic and simply by bringing down the tone and being passive aggressive with the same underlying hateful feelings they are allowed to continue on the rise. These, to me, are the things that should be addressed.

Anyway, I literally just woke up at 11:17. Feel free to disregard any nonsense spotted here.

Edit:
Okay, after reading the OP, I have found more than a handful of reasons to feel thoroughly offended as a woman, but this takes the cake...
"Trust me all the men in this forum when I say women don't know what they want and their advice sucks ass."

And that's only AFTER implying that women all don't know how to reason without emotion and that we all need a good **** and somehow THAT will solve our problems. And considering I might be the sole member so open about wanting to be ******, there's obviously something offensive about that line that sets it apart from what I've already said about my own self.

Vent or not, OP is just offensive, and dare I say it, may be experiencing all his frustration because of underlying mommy issues. But I'm not about to psychoanalyze him so that theory can be disregarded as a quip.

 

[Felix]

I have the feeling that in this culture of nowadays a man can't criticize a woman without being called names.

Girls do the same, saying things that are not true like we think about sex all the time like you don't. Which just isn't true. Is totally unfair that in this generation we have to deal with the fact that women were oppressed in the past so they take advantage of this by playing the victim. One "you are a girl so you act like this" and they snap and suddenly you are a pig, a mysoginist or whatever.

Now that I'm more calmed down I'll tell you more or less what I got from my experience.

Read only if you care, it's not going to be very amusing.

My conclutions from this whole experiment in making a magazine with women is that I tried to be with women in this group and I treated them as equals. I supported the group from the very begining, I got us into events for us to sell our publication. There were minor complaints but everything was going smoothly. I felt good, maybe even acted like an alpha through some of this period.

But after a while thete were problems in the group and this girl we'll call "N", woh worked really hard among with her bff and me, said "I wanna be a leader". Later I told her "I'm ok with this, I'll sopport you" but she said "It was only a joke". Ok.

Then after all this we continue to grow together. We go to events, everything is fine. Now, this season, while on vacations, I decide to take a break. I don't go to this events to sell magazines anymore. Now this "N" girl starts reclaming that I'm not going to this events, that I let her friend go alone to one and other ilogical stuff. There was a dude who promised to go with her but I'm the one guilty of her going alone.

So I'm like "It's true I haven't been going but I went to like 15/20 events". Even I was the only one who agreed to go to sell the damn thing to another country with both of you girls. I did far more for this magazine than anyone and you are questioning me and not the rest.

I either had to be a ******* beta who takes order like sadly is the rest of this group of people or stand up to this nonsense and go with some dignity. I went with the dignity, sadly I'm not the greatest speaker so my oral self defence wasn't as efective as hers, even with the support of all the male group members.

This is what I got from trying to be equal, a ******* stab in the back by some whacko girl who wants to control everything. She even was angry with me once for not wanting to eat the sandwich she had made right away (I wanted to take a shower first). YES SHE GOT MAD FROM A SANDWICH, but it's ok, she is a girl, she can be emotional, she bleeds so let's take all her **** and wrap it in a nice velvet...

And after the meeting, someone called her "the leader". She giggled in agreement.

I knew what she wanted for more than a year before...

Ok... So after this crap, this putting me aside for my penis, my final conclusion is: I'm not gonna work with woman anymore. Unless I can get some amazing advantage or I'm sure the'll stay passive, I'm not going to do it. Some things were my fault, sure, but I don't take responsability for the **** they put on me and also for having a penis. If this group is now doomed to a crazy feminist rage... I hope not.

 

[The Good Citizen]

I think there is an innate tendency to take sides with your given gender and its very easy for relatively intelligent open minded adults to quickly slip into a battle lines drawn boys v girls.

Case in point, reading tangerinedream's post I was initially thinking no..no..no to the points raised. Then you force yourself to take a step back and think outside the box and I can accept that yes I have to agree that on ALL there is more of a tendency for male's to vent anger and frustration at women in general than vice versa. But that then points to a gender gap that most like minded people on here would rather avoid.

The level of anger shown on the board by young males I think just points to people not knowing their role in the world anymore. Everyone male and female is expected to be so multi-faceted - Sensitive yet masculine, feminine but not girly, sexy but not sluttish just teetering on some imaginary tight rope that constitutes the perfect person. A lot of what you read on here is just people shouting "I don’t know what the hell I'm supposed to be!!". But why men in particular? Why don't women vent more? Its not like they don't have there own expectations and **** to deal with.

I think sexism is society's fault as a whole, it's undoubtedly a male creation but following the move to sexual equality its now also perpetuated by woman also. What pisses me off is reading female columnists slating what other women are wearing in the press or point out recent weight gain. Women can reduce each other to sexual objects as much as men can and I read it and think you idiot have you learnt nothing? I hear Women make the same sly comments about other women in public all the time.. “what is she wearing…” “She can’t carry that dress off”. Etc.

As a slight aside, as single father I experience sexism, when I say I have 2 children by 2 mothers I feel compelled to explain myself as quickly as possible, I feel the expectation is it must be my fault as the male and I have had that and it hurts to hear. When I say I have them shared care 4 nights a week I then get the opposite reaction of oh that’s really good most dads wouldn't do that. People mean well but that really pisses me off. I explain 'well many men aren't allowed that so I am lucky I have that arrangement'. Just the credit I'm given for wanting to have my children is laughable and its offensive to women also as they would get no credit for having the kids the other nights of the week, that’s expected because they are the mums right?

I don’t know it just goes round and round and round it’s endless. I just think you have to try and be as nice a person as you can and accept that people these days are dazed and confused by it all.