Perfect example of how society feels about beauty (or lack of)

[Xpendable]

And what exactly is wrong with that guy?

Nothing, that's the point I think. As we tend to think that there's something fundamentally wrong with us if we can't be perceived equally worthy as someone who doesn't look so special.

 

[TheRealCallie]

And what exactly is wrong with that guy?

Nothing, that's the point I think. As we tend to think that there's something fundamentally wrong with us if we can't be perceived equally worthy as someone who doesn't look so special.

You want to be more "equal"? Try having some confidence and stop being so negative. That could very well be why he has what you don't.

(The you is general, not you specifically.)

 

[Xpendable]

You want to be more "equal"? Try having some confidence and stop being so negative. That could very well be why he has what you don't.

(The you is general, not you specifically.)

Many things wrong with that:

First, saying to someone that they need to "have more confidence" is meaningless. Is not a magical process. Confidence comes from validation; so it's mainly an external issue. No one wakes up in the morning and thinks "Time to have confidence out of nowhere". It's like saying to a poor person that they just need to have more money. We have practically no control on how others may or may not affect our confidence.

Notice that I said "equal" and not "better" because I can see this guy is probably a good human being. What I cannot see is the specific combination of traits or variables that make other men less attractive than him without being so different (with confidence and all)

And that's another mistake you make. You say "That could very well be why he has what you don't" You're assuming he must have this great qualities that make other people overlook his external appearance. But you actually just wish he does, because it would be more comfortable to believe shallowness can be defeated. That's why you call me "negative", because my point of view goes against your hopes.

And finally when you say "general" I'm assuming you're talking to other men. Generalizing the struggle of many to simple whining; which is a common shaming tactic against the people who say things you don't like. Sadly the world is full of unattractive people with great qualities, men and woman alike; but that get overlooked and relegated for their looks. You can find thousands of men and women with the same qualities has he but they won't have a significant other. Of course is easier to say they just "lack X Y or Z" instead of admitting that the criteria in which someone is selected worthy of love is often random and arbitrary, and there isn't an universal guide to follow to be considered attractive to others.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Many things wrong with that:

First, saying to someone that they need to "have more confidence" is meaningless. Is not a magical process. Confidence comes from validation; so it's mainly an external issue. No one wakes up in the morning and thinks "Time to have confidence out of nowhere". It's like saying to a poor person that they just need to have more money. We have practically no control on how others may or may not affect our confidence.

Notice that I said "equal" and not "better" because I can see this guy is probably a good human being. What I cannot see is the specific combination of traits or variables that make other men less attractive than him without being so different (with confidence and all)

Actually, it's not meaningless and you CAN have confidence without having outside validation. Give YOURSELF that validation, it can be done. I've seen it done and I've done it myself. So, no, I'm not mistaken in that. It takes not being so negative to be able to do it, though. Again, that's where confidence comes in.

And that's another mistake you make. You say "That could very well be why he has what you don't" You're assuming he must have this great qualities that make other people overlook his external appearance. But you actually just wish he does, because it would be more comfortable to believe shallowness can be defeated. That's why you call me "negative", because my point of view goes against your hopes.

No, I'm saying that he has confidence and most likely doesn't see everything in a negative perspective. That doesn't necessarily mean that he has great qualities at all, it means that he likely has CONFIDENCE. A lot of people with confidence are shallow jackasses, which I think is what causes the whole "bad boys" rep, but just because that GETS them a significant other doesn't mean that they will STAY with the person.

And finally when you say "general" I'm assuming you're talking to other men. Generalizing the struggle of many to simple whining; which is a common shaming tactic against the people who say things you don't like. Sadly the world is full of unattractive people with great qualities, men and woman alike; but that get overlooked and relegated for their looks. You can find thousands of men and women with the same qualities has he but they won't have a significant other. Of course is easier to say they just "lack X Y or Z" instead of admitting that the criteria in which someone is selected worthy of love is often random and arbitrary, and there isn't an universal guide to follow to be considered attractive to others.

No, I'm not talking to other men, I'm talking to EVERYONE. There's nowhere saying that a female doesn't have the same problem, because in fact, they do.
I don't recall saying anything about whining. Again, I will repeat, it takes CONFIDENCE and not viewing everything negatively to be able to get anywhere in life, whether you are looking for a relationship or anything else.

So yeah, I'm not mistaken, you just refuse to see it this way. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but don't say I'm wrong or mistaken, just because you don't believe it. I've seen it, I've done it...I'm not mistaken at all.

Also, you will notice that I put the word "equal" in quotes. This is because I believe that everyone IS equal. It's yourself that makes you see yourself as unequal.

 

[Triple Bogey]

Not completely, I'd say. Some people really don't care for this, no matter how much some people would think so.

I think - 'if looks don't matter then why do people spend a fortune trying to improve them ?'
Looks are important to me. I'll admit to that. Of course personality is as important. A beautiful woman who never smiles wouldn't interest me one bit.

Also I did not say that looks don't matter to everyone. Some people take it very seriously, yeah. I suppose those could be in the majority if you keep running into them more than those who don't.

I understand what you meant about there being the rare person to whom it meant nothing LadyF, but the sad truth is looks do play a part for the vast majority. Not just some people. They are what people first notice, they are what will immediately attract someone, whether in a positive or a negative way. It's not just some people for whom they play a role. Initial judgement is based on looks. Society has always revolved around appearance. Just look about you and throughout history and everything from art to journalism to mythology to business and industries like cosmetics and fashion and plastic surgery will show that. Why do people care about weight loss and dieting and exercise? It's not just health that concerns most people when they set goals like that. And scientific studies continually being carried out on attraction and attractiveness will prove that. Illnesses like body dysmorphia and anorexia and bulimia are very real, and revolve around body image.
When you say looks don't matter to the majority, it's sort of like saying the emperor is definitely wearing clothes, when he clearly is not. Or like someone who says ' I don't see colour' when talking about race. Even colourblind people see colour. Choosing not to judge is a choice, albeit an easy one. What I mean is, you'd have to be in denial to say people's appearances don't affect others at least to some degree. And not just someone's physical features, but appearance as a whole. I've experienced racism and islamophobia. Why? Appearance. Snap judgements. There are many who have experienced sexual harassment. Again, snap judgements, a lot of the time based on clothing, make up or just looks. Or just because they have the noticeable secondary sexual characteristics of a female human. There are others who experience homophobia because they 'look gay'. People discriminate against those with obvious disabilities and disfigurements all the time. Why is hair loss such a problem for alopecia and cancer patients? Appearance matters. It's part of who you are. There are many, many more examples. Looks play a huge role when it comes to what others think of you and what you think of yourself, regardless of what anyone says. It happens all the time. It doesn't make it right. People will judge, and it's naive to believe they will wait to talk to you before they do so. If looks didn't matter, the world would be a far better place than it is.
I will concede however, that once you're in a relationship, it matters not at all. It's who they are, not what they look like that matters with attraction as with everything in the end. But you have to go through first impressions to get there. You're one of the very lucky few if that isn't something you notice or that affects you at all in anyway.

I understand completely what you're saying and yes, that's what I meant, that perhaps looks do matter for the majority of people for it to be such a common problem. And that is sad. I'm just saying, it's not entirely applicable to the entire human race, which I thought was what TB meant when he said it'd be completely wrong for anyone to think that looks don't matter.

Yes, appearance matters to us. My appearance matters to me, I have issues with myself. But I don't find issue with people and how they look. There is a distinction for how some people see it. Some don't have that distinction.. perhaps majority of people. It just doesn't mean its a lost cause. That's all I'm saying.

Not completely, I'd say. Some people really don't care for this, no matter how much some people would think so.

I think - 'if looks don't matter then why do people spend a fortune trying to improve them ?'

Looks are important to me. I'll admit to that. Of course personality is as important. A beautiful woman who never smiles wouldn't interest me one bit.

I'm just saying that it's not completely wrong for people to say that looks don't matter cos it really doesn't to some of us. It doesn't to me and you or anyone can debate me on it but I know what I know of myself. So even if I'm just one freakin person (and I know I'm not the only one to think this way), we are not completely wrong to say this because we know it ourselves.

Also I did not say that looks don't matter to everyone. Some people take it very seriously, yeah. I suppose those could be in the majority if you keep running into them more than those who don't. I don't know and I really don't care. What I do know is that I'm not exactly bombshell attractive but I've had people tell me they were attracted to me (even though I'd still not believe them cos I just don't see how). So it can happen. For me, for you and for anyone else.

You just can't lump the entire human race with the same judgement based on your many experiences and deem the opposition wrong just cos you haven't seen it for yourself personally... yet. Just saying, I respect your opinion, it just doesn't mean the others who don't think so are completely wrong.

I respect your opinion. Life is all about them. Maybe I worded it wrong ?

I'm looking for reasons (why I'm not attractive to women) - I just can't see that I am some arsehole who has no redeeming features personality wise. The attributes I have don't seem to matter at all. It's depressing. I try my best not to think about too much. But it's always there.

I'm sure you have good qualities within yourself, TB. We tend to overly critical of ourselves most of the time. Sometimes you just have to trust and believe that you've got some good qualities that women will see, and then they will see it. I think when someone is negative towards themselves or the situation they're in, they give out negative vibes and people don't exactly get attracted to that. I'm not saying you do this, I'm just saying this is what I often see for myself. You become more approachable, when you're less harsh and negative on yourself.. that's what I find.

I do wish you luck in finding someone suitable. It's never too late, I don't think.

Thanks. I don't think I give out negative vibes though. (I have a moan on here of course) but in the real world, I think if there is a problem it's I am a bit of a know all. Somebody who knows everything and has an opinion about everything. I know some of the women at work think I am arrogant. I can be full of myself and I have to reign it in a bit. Be a bit more humble. I am always been told how 'nice' I am and how 'funny' and how 'I get around with all these photo trips I go on.

 

[BeyondShy]

So the only thing that matters to you is what someone looks like and how much money they have?

No. That is what is important to a lot of people and I was just commenting on that. And I am really getting fed up with people assuming things about me.

I'll go on...

Not for you to tear down the fact that there are people who don't care about looks, and just because you're not one of them, that doesn't mean they don't exist. With how you talk here, I can see why you're alone for another Saturday evening. You want to be hateful, fine, but don't bash other people for not falling into the bag of rocks you put everyone into.

I AM ONE that doesn't care what a person looks like. Again, you don't understand what I am saying and you believe what you want. I'm not being hateful but you go right ahead and believe that. It's just frustrating to be misunderstood.

Hearing about anecdotal evidence always makes me shake my head. Just because some short, bald guy got a relationship somewhere in some moment doesn't change the biological roots on how we perceive attractiveness as a species.

Damn, I was happy to hear about that guy. But not everyone is that fortunate even though they all deserve to be.

Just because you think you are looking at it realistically doesn't mean that you are. What's true for you is not true for everyone else. Aside from that, if you perspective is skewed to your own way of negative thinking, it will alter what is genuinely real and what you want to believe is real.

I saved the best for last.

You understood perfectly Callie. Just because I said I was looking at it realistically didn't mean that I really was. Never once have I said any of you were dealing with someone (me) who knows everything. I'm wrong more than I am right I would have to guess. But that is really all I see. My thinking is negative. I know this. I am making small steps to change it but after reading what some other people wrote about I end up thinking that way even more.

One day I hope to find out what is genuinely real and I hope it is someday soon.

 

[Xpendable]

Actually, it's not meaningless and you CAN have confidence without having outside validation.

Which is really risky because you're outnumbered against society and its influence in how you perceive yourself.

Give YOURSELF that validation, it can be done. I've seen it done and I've done it myself. So, no, I'm not mistaken in that. It takes not being so negative to be able to do it, though. Again, that's where confidence comes in.

You're equating disagreement with "negativity". Just because I've had different experiences and I reached different conclusions about life you call me negative. You're also equating negativity with lack of confidence; as if they couldn't go together. Again, the concept of Confidence is really vague and subjective. Could be anyone be confident and successful with absolutely no validation from others? Do you really believe someone can reach great confidence while everyone steps over them 24/7 and practically mold the way they see themselves. Maybe self-validation has some effect, but it crumbles against the weight of the masses.

No, I'm saying that he has confidence and most likely doesn't see everything in a negative perspective.

You don't know that, you just want it to bee.

That doesn't necessarily mean that he has great qualities at all, it means that he likely has CONFIDENCE.

Too vague. Ask ten people what confidence is and you'll get ten different answers.

A lot of people with confidence are shallow jackasses, which I think is what causes the whole "bad boys" rep,

That's arrogance. They are easily distinguishable.

but just because that GETS them a significant other doesn't mean that they will STAY with the person.

But it gets them one. Allowing them to eventualy find a good relationship through trial and error.

No, I'm not talking to other men, I'm talking to EVERYONE. There's nowhere saying that a female doesn't have the same problem, because in fact, they do.

Actually I don't see anyone saying that to women. If so, men would have a fat acceptance movement too. And no, i'm not saying that fat women are lesser beings. I'm saying I often don't see society telling unattractive women to improve. At most they will tell them to loose weight. While men are told to develop confidence (again, vague), to improve their social skills, conversation, body language, a fit body (not just thin), have carisma, hobbies; being interesting and overall being an unrealistic plethora of virtues and perfection just to be sure at least someone, somewhere would say: You're OK now... now you can have nice things.

I know I'm exaggerating, but I really feel that society is selling love in a very high price nowadays. Is not enough with being a decent person anymore. You'll always be told to be lacking in some area and It will be 100% your fault if you're not happy. As if nothing out our your control could act against how you are.

I don't ever saying anything about whining. Again, I will repeat, it takes CONFIDENCE and not viewing everything negatively to be able to get anywhere in life, whether you are looking for a relationship or anything else.

I don't have a "Confidence Switch"... I feel I'm on a treadmill of constant disapproval. It doesn't matter how fast I try to run, I'm always in the same place. If acknowledging the fact that I've always been invisible to people is being Negative, then so be it. If feeling frustrated over how everyone around me fit so well and gets love and acceptance without too much effort makes me sound "just negative", then maybe I'm stronger of what I thought. I don't see myself too different from other people. I dress like most people, I consume the same media, laugh at the same jokes and make others laugh as well. No one runs when they see me and neither turn their heads when I pass by them. On the outside I'm just a guy who doesn't give any other impression than a "nice person". But in the inside I'm screaming everyday. I feel shivers when I reflect on my own loneliness as my jaw tightens from the anguish of thinking it's never going to change.
So PLEASE understand if I can't find comfort in your words.
To say Just Be Confident is not an advice; it's just a cop out. There's no method or actual solution provided from that statement. Each person will have a different relation to their own confidence, and each person will make others react in a different way depending on the type of people you relate to. We are ALL different.

I don't "believe" you're mistaken. It's just I can't see anything more than wishful thinking in what you say.

It didn't matter that I learned other languages, learned to play musical instruments, educated myself about all kind of topics and that I'm constantly looking for ways to be appreciated by others and become an integral human being. To try to find every conceivable flaw I could have and correct it, even if anyone else could see those flaws. How I have to be aware if my back is bowed, or if my face isn't making the right expression, if my pronunciation is correct or if my tone of voice projects well enough.

You know how it feels to be constantly evaluating every sentence you're are going to say before you say it? Because you know that at the first wrong wording, at the first misinterpretation, all that effort goes away. And worst of all is how I see people fail miserably in all the things I named but at the end of the day they still have someone how would say "I love you" to them with all the sincerity in the world. They would still have someone how truly want to believe they are perfect.

It's yourself that makes you see yourself as unequal.

Unequal suffering makes people feel unequal. An unfair life makes other people fear that fairness doesn't exist. No amount of confidence can change the environment that created you.

 

[Nicolelt]

This is the only thing I want to question in your post:

Actually, it's not meaningless and you CAN have confidence without having outside validation.

Which is really risky because you're outnumbered against society and its influence in how you perceive yourself.

Why do you perceive yourself on what society perceives you by?

Plus, there are so many "societies" out their the opinions are so different. Have you ever watched Family Guy? You know how everyone on that show calls Meg ugly and fat. There is an episode where they are living at Lois's dad's house in the houses with all the help from Mexico, and the guys there whistle at her and are like "I want to feel your mustache against mine"

Yuck, but that society finds her pretty.

I my opinion it's just an excuse for people to feel down on themselves. There isn't any truth to it.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Thanks. I don't think I give out negative vibes though. (I have a moan on here of course) but in the real world, I think if there is a problem it's I am a bit of a know all. Somebody who knows everything and has an opinion about everything. I know some of the women at work think I am arrogant. I can be full of myself and I have to reign it in a bit. Be a bit more humble. I am always been told how 'nice' I am and how 'funny' and how 'I get around with all these photo trips I go on.

Wait... You don't think you give out negative vibes, yet some people at your job think you're arrogant? Arrogance can be negative vibes. Someone who's a know-it-all and full of themselves can certainly send out vibes that people could consider not so great. If you say that you could be a bit more humble, that leaves the possibility that you do give out negative vibes.

Not for you to tear down the fact that there are people who don't care about looks, and just because you're not one of them, that doesn't mean they don't exist. With how you talk here, I can see why you're alone for another Saturday evening. You want to be hateful, fine, but don't bash other people for not falling into the bag of rocks you put everyone into.

I AM ONE that doesn't care what a person looks like. Again, you don't understand what I am saying and you believe what you want. I'm not being hateful but you go right ahead and believe that. It's just frustrating to be misunderstood.

When you constantly stand on that side of the fence, what do you expect people to think about it? Nearly every post I read of yours, you are saying that looks do matter. It's like disliking chocolate ice cream, yet someone constantly talks about it. What else is someone supposed to think other than, "Oh, that person must like chocolate ice cream." You're constantly defending the fact that looks do matter. I didn't misunderstand you. I only read what you're saying. I only pick up what you're putting down.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Actually, it's not meaningless and you CAN have confidence without having outside validation.

Which is really risky because you're outnumbered against society and its influence in how you perceive yourself.

As Nicole said, why are you relying on society to tell you whether you can have confidence or not? What other people think of you is none of your business.

You're equating disagreement with "negativity". Just because I've had different experiences and I reached different conclusions about life you call me negative. You're also equating negativity with lack of confidence; as if they couldn't go together. Again, the concept of Confidence is really vague and subjective. Could be anyone be confident and successful with absolutely no validation from others? Do you really believe someone can reach great confidence while everyone steps over them 24/7 and practically mold the way they see themselves. Maybe self-validation has some effect, but it crumbles against the weight of the masses.

I'm not equating anything to anything. You need confidence (which results in higher self esteem) to be able to do anything. If you have it, that's great, but based on the fact that you think society should influence how much confidence you should have makes me think that you don't have much. Unless society thinks highly of you, of course.

You can be negative and have confidence, hell, I'm not exactly Miss Happy Go Lucky. lol But, when it comes to saying that "bad boys" and all those other people can get girls and wondering how one "unattractive" person can get someone when you can't....that queues a lack of confidence AND negativity. Stop looking at all the negatives in life, start having confidence in yourself and see what happens.

Yes, I do believe someone can have confidence and achieve what they set out to, even while having people "step on them." But that's the thing, once you stop caring what others think, once you stop ALLOWING people to step all over you, it becomes a completely different scenario. Once again, queue confidence. It can only crumble if you let it. Do you really think people say good things about me all the time? lol I couldn't really give a **** less what people think of me. Once upon a time, I did. But, after giving myself the respect I deserve and realizing that those people are usually either just being mean to get a rise out of me or simply don't know me to begin with, the words lost their meaning. Sticks and stones and all that.

No, I'm saying that he has confidence and most likely doesn't see everything in a negative perspective.

You don't know that, you just want it to bee.

You're right, I don't know that, but it's unlikely the girl would have went for him if he didn't have at least a little. Granted, she could have felt sorry for him, but still. How did they meet? They had to talk at some point in time to realize they wanted to be together.

That doesn't necessarily mean that he has great qualities at all, it means that he likely has CONFIDENCE.

Too vague. Ask ten people what confidence is and you'll get ten different answers.

Perhaps, but they will all border on the same meaning.

A lot of people with confidence are shallow jackasses, which I think is what causes the whole "bad boys" rep,

That's arrogance. They are easily distinguishable.

Arrogance is basically TOO MUCH confidence, wouldn't you agree?

but just because that GETS them a significant other doesn't mean that they will STAY with the person.

But it gets them one. Allowing them to eventualy find a good relationship through trial and error.

Does it? They are still the same *******. Take my ex for example, yeah, he has a girlfriend, he's been with her for 2 years, (the previous girlfriend for 3 years). His ******** will always come to the forefront at some point in time and that, in turn, will cause the end of the relationship. Although, from what I've seen and heard, it's not that great of a relationship to begin with. My ex and I were together for 12 years, but guess what, an *******, just like a tiger, can rarely change their stripes.

Actually I don't see anyone saying that to women. If so, men would have a fat acceptance movement too. And no, i'm not saying that fat women are lesser beings. I'm saying I often don't see society telling unattractive women to improve. At most they will tell them to loose weight. While men are told to develop confidence (again, vague), to improve their social skills, conversation, body language, a fit body (not just thin), have carisma, hobbies; being interesting and overall being an unrealistic plethora of virtues and perfection just to be sure at least someone, somewhere would say: You're OK now... now you can have nice things.

I know I'm exaggerating, but I really feel that society is selling love in a very high price nowadays. Is not enough with being a decent person anymore. You'll always be told to be lacking in some area and It will be 100% your fault if you're not happy. As if nothing out our your control could act against how you are.

lol, are you serious? Perhaps you need to look around a little more, because it is being said to women too. Sure, go ahead and have your "fat acceptance movement." People tell "unattractive" women all the time to improve. Yes, losing weight might be part of it, but you know, it's only so much. Usually there is more to it than just the weight. Also, added weight can strip a person of their confidence in themselves, unless they don't care what people think of them. EVERYONE needs confidence, not just men, but also women and children. Why can't YOU tell yourself that you're okay now you can have nice things? Why do you need to rely on outside forces? People here tell others all the time that they are good enough, that they can have what they want with hard work, is that not enough?

Everyone will always be lacking in some area, whether you have confidence or not. Not a single one of us is perfect and no one ever will be. But yeah, it is 100% your fault if you aren't happy. Yes, bad things might happen to you, but that doesn't mean you have to let it drag you down. That doesn't mean it has to make your life stop. Life goes on, change what you can, accept what you can't.

I don't have a "Confidence Switch"... I feel I'm on a treadmill of constant disapproval. It doesn't matter how fast I try to run, I'm always in the same place. If acknowledging the fact that I've always been invisible to people is being Negative, then so be it. If feeling frustrated over how everyone around me fit so well and gets love and acceptance without too much effort makes me sound "just negative", then maybe I'm stronger of what I thought. I don't see myself too different from other people. I dress like most people, I consume the same media, laugh at the same jokes and make others laugh as well. No one runs when they see me and neither turn their heads when I pass by them. On the outside I'm just a guy who doesn't give any other impression than a "nice person". But in the inside I'm screaming everyday. I feel shivers when I reflect on my own loneliness as my jaw tightens from the anguish of thinking it's never going to change.
So PLEASE understand if I can't find comfort in your words.
To say Just Be Confident is not an advice; it's just a cop out. There's no method or actual solution provided from that statement. Each person will have a different relation to their own confidence, and each person will make others react in a different way depending on the type of people you relate to. We are ALL different.

Of course it takes more than just confidence to get what you want out of life, but that's where you need to START. You can say that you don't see yourself as different from others, but given what you've said, I'm not sure I believe that. Deep down, you DO feel different, because you feel invisible. It sounds like you think that conforming to what society thinks you should be, that you should get what "everyone else" has. I know people might come down on me for saying this (again), but whatever happened to being yourself? To owning who you really are and saying a proverbial **** you to those that don't accept it.

I don't "believe" you're mistaken. It's just I can't see anything more than wishful thinking in what you say.

It didn't matter that I learned other languages, learned to play musical instruments, educated myself about all kind of topics and that I'm constantly looking for ways to be appreciated by others and become an integral human being. To try to find every conceivable flaw I could have and correct it, even if anyone else could see those flaws. How I have to be aware if my back is bowed, or if my face isn't making the right expression, if my pronunciation is correct or if my tone of voice projects well enough.

You know how it feels to be constantly evaluating every sentence you're are going to say before you say it? Because you know that at the first wrong wording, at the first misinterpretation, all that effort goes away. And worst of all is how I see people fail miserably in all the things I named but at the end of the day they still have someone how would say "I love you" to them with all the sincerity in the world. They would still have someone how truly want to believe they are perfect.

It's not wishful thinking when I have seen it work and it worked for me. But go ahead and think that if you want, no skin off my nose.

You said yourself right there, that you are look for acceptance, but where's the acceptance in yourself? Where's the pride and...wait for it....confidence in yourself? WHY do you need the approval of others?
You will always have flaws, everyone will always have flaws, but that doesn't mean you can't turn those flaws into assets. But here's the thing with what you just said here. You aren't confident, you make too much of a conscious effort to make yourself look perfect, but that's impossible. Not only because no one is perfect, but because the harder you try to make people see that you are fun and fantastic, the more people will see through the charade. You may think you are hiding it extremely well, but in my experience, you aren't. (again, that's a generalized you)

Yes, I do know how it feels to constantly evaluate every single thing I say before I say it. Once upon a time, I had no confidence, I didn't think I could still be a person without the acceptance of others, so I do know exactly how, what you are describing, feels. But, one day, after a **** ton of hard work, I'd wager the hardest work I've ever done, I realized that it doesn't matter if people like what I say or not. I'm 100% honest in everything I say. Everything I say, I believe. So why does it matter if others don't agree? It is unlikely to change my way of thinking or what I believe. So yeah, it doesn't matter, I say what I want, when I want and to hell with anyone that doesn't like it. I do my best to be respectful to others, but sometimes, people don't want to hear things and will attack you because they see what I am saying as offensive or that I don't understand. I understand a lot more than people realize.

It's yourself that makes you see yourself as unequal.

Unequal suffering makes people feel unequal. An unfair life makes other people fear that fairness doesn't exist. No amount of confidence can change the environment that created you.

Of course confidence can't change your environment, but it can change how people perceive you. Life is unfair, that's pretty much a proven fact and I don't think anyone will dispute that. But so what? That's not going to change just because you think it's unequal or unfair, so why put so much thought and effort into it? As I said earlier, change what you can, accept what you can't.

 

[Xpendable]

This is the only thing I want to question in your post:

Actually, it's not meaningless and you CAN have confidence without having outside validation.

Which is really risky because you're outnumbered against society and its influence in how you perceive yourself.

Why do you perceive yourself on what society perceives you by?

Because I'm a social animal. Is not like we have a choice.

Plus, there are so many "societies" out their the opinions are so different. Have you ever watched Family Guy? You know how everyone on that show calls Meg ugly and fat. There is an episode where they are living at Lois's dad's house in the houses with all the help from Mexico, and the guys there whistle at her and are like "I want to feel your mustache against mine"

Yuck, but that society finds her pretty.

I my opinion it's just an excuse for people to feel down on themselves. There isn't any truth to it.

You can`t seriously make an example from a cartoon and apply it to real life. Besides you're agreeing with me, saying that different societies can influence how individuals perceive themselves.

 

[Nicolelt]

This is the only thing I want to question in your post:

Actually, it's not meaningless and you CAN have confidence without having outside validation.

Which is really risky because you're outnumbered against society and its influence in how you perceive yourself.

Why do you perceive yourself on what society perceives you by?

Because I'm a social animal. Is not like we have a choice.

Plus, there are so many "societies" out their the opinions are so different. Have you ever watched Family Guy? You know how everyone on that show calls Meg ugly and fat. There is an episode where they are living at Lois's dad's house in the houses with all the help from Mexico, and the guys there whistle at her and are like "I want to feel your mustache against mine"

Yuck, but that society finds her pretty.

I my opinion it's just an excuse for people to feel down on themselves. There isn't any truth to it.

You can seriously make an example from a cartoon and apply it to real life. Besides you're agreeing with me, saying that different societies can influence how individuals perceive themselves.

People in high school thought I was a snob, because my dad was rich and I didn't talk to people. That wasn't true though, I was awkwardly shy. I was forced to have a job as a kid and buy everything I wanted on my own. Soooooo, how did society make me who I was?

Yea, I can, because it happens in real life.

 

[Solivagant]

When you constantly stand on that side of the fence, what do you expect people to think about it? Nearly every post I read of yours, you are saying that looks do matter. It's like disliking chocolate ice cream, yet someone constantly talks about it. What else is someone supposed to think other than, "Oh, that person must like chocolate ice cream." You're constantly defending the fact that looks do matter. I didn't misunderstand you. I only read what you're saying. I only pick up what you're putting down.

^ Exactly. How else do you expect people to interpret this sort of talk? You say that this is how people feel and how people are; well, you are also "people". I made no assumptions, I was saying back to you exactly what you were saying to everyone else. When you use words like "everyone", "more than nine out of ten" (which is ten out of ten), and "the real world", you must include yourself in those groups because you are also part of everyone, ten out of ten, and the real world. Otherwise, you must concede that not everyone is that way.

 

[Batman55]

Which brings up the question, what kind of improvements did he make?

Long story short is he learned to work with what he has. He grew facial hair to add more visual interest onto his face (compensating for his significant hair loss.) That had the added benefit of making him look more "edgy" and thus more interesting. He's embraced the various quirks or deficits in his looks and somehow it now translates as "rugged," a look which appeals to some women.

He's not an introvert, though, nor painfully shy (somewhere in between.) He has usually socialized on a regular basis so I imagine, unlike many of us, his skills never stagnated and he never lost too much confidence. So this part of it was not a change for him; but making some visual tweaks and "owning" his style, that WAS a change that took a while.

 

[Aisha]

Which brings up the question, what kind of improvements did he make?

Long story short is he learned to work with what he has.
He's not an introvert, though, nor painfully shy (somewhere in between.) He has usually socialized on a regular basis so I imagine, unlike many of us, his skills never stagnated and he never lost much of his confidence. So this part of it was not a change for him; but making some visual tweaks and "owning" his style, that WAS a change that took a while.

Confidence is the most powerful tool in anyone's arsenal when it comes to interpersonal relations. How you present yourself and your demeanor when you do is going to make an impression. Friendly, calm, confidence will get you very far.

 

[Solivagant]

I wrote this the other day but didn't get around to posting it.

And how many people get on reddit? Last time I checked not the entire world. I don't think it's a true representation at all. People are mean on the internet.

Yeah, that's another thing. The Internet, and reddit, seem to have a lot of jerks on it. Look at YouTube comments also - they're always full of racial, gender, and homophobic slurs. There's something about it, maybe it's the anonymity, maybe it's just the lowest common denominator. But a lot of these people that hang out a lot on the Internet are very mean.

He's a perfectly normal looking guy. No one would say anything about there being a disparity in their looks if his weight was average.

^ I agree.


OP: I didn't read through all the comments, but from what I could see it was mostly a bunch of frustrated guys talking about penises and theorizing why they don't have a "hot chick". What do you care about a bunch of asshats making ****** judgements? They're asshats. The girl said her piece and she loves her boyfriend as he is, that's the more important message to take away from this.

Yeah, there are a lot of people out there who treat appearance like the end-all-be-all; I've been passed over and subjected to plenty of crap because of how I look. But you don't have to be one of those people, and there are others out there who aren't those people either. That's what matters. One more person who doesn't make appearance the end-all-be-all is one less person who does.

The negative comments show what just about everyone out there think. I promise you more than nine out of ten people would have something insulting to say about that photo. This is a true representation of how people feel.

I completely disagree with that. I saw plenty of comments rebuking their behavior and defending the couple as well, including the girl herself. Are we just ignoring those?

E.g.:

[–]stone_henge 293 points 4 days ago

Bunch of redditors came to the conclusion long ago that they were single because they are not physically attractive, not because they are boring, toxic and generally horrible losers.

This is what happens when a picture challenges that belief.


[–]MicroJackson88 228 points 4 days ago

ITT: socially awkward redditors doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to rationalise why they are single


[–]lonely-day 443 points 5 days ago

See, this is what people mean when they say "it's what on the inside that counts."


[–]HaberdasherA 303 points 4 days ago

maybe he's a great dude and found an attractive girl who appreciates that


[–]awokenthehive 1182 points 4 days ago*

It's almost as if there are more to relationships than physical attributes. Imagine that.

Edit: well this comment blew up over night. A lot of very cynical folks out there. Just cause you aren't Brad Pitt doesn't mean you can't woo an Angelina. Women actually care about things like personality, shared interests, humor, being treated right, maturity and CONFIDENCE.

Adult relationships would crumble if they are based on looks alone.

Edit 2: it really makes me sad reading how jaded all the replies are toward relationships and dating. Physical attractiveness is not the end all be all to even having the ability to meet and talk to women. This is one instance where you do not want to listen to the Reddit hivemind, because most of you are just repeating what others have said, not talking from experience.

I know what it's like to be single for a stretch of time, and its not fun and can be depressing, but trying to pass the blame on to something out of your control isnt the answer. Keep your head up, present yourself like someone who has thier **** together and learn to be friendly. You're not going to do well being antisocial and depressing, that WILL stop you from making any progress with women, attractive or otherwise.


[–]Tubim 7 points 4 days ago

It does, but that doesn't mean it's the only thing that matters. I know plenty of fat guys and chicks who have an active sex life. Why? Because being fat doen't prevent you from being nice, pleasant and funny.


[–]Bladamir 106 points 4 days ago*

I know an amazing couple that used to both be very attractive. When they were both like 23 the dude got cancer and put on a lot of weight due to something (I'm not super close to them). Anyways she stayed with him and married him in spite of it and I can't say that I ever even saw a look of doubt in her eyes.

I doubt that's what's going on here but I do know that yall some hating ass people. It's probably why you're emotionally alone enough to even question this guys situation.


[–]Sheparud 1160 points 5 days ago

You guys are a bunch of dicks


[–]super_toker_420 512 points 5 days ago

Man you guys are harsh.


[–]rampantdissonance 266 points 4 days ago*

Yeah. Why's everybody gotta be so rude? Unless he's like, holding her hostage or something, they're two adults who are deciding to be in a relationship together. She's not blind, she knows he's fat, he knows he's fat, but there must be something redeeming in him that makes her stay with him.

Why is the first impulse here to **** on anything other people are doing?


[–]lolmonger 74 points 4 days ago

Locally grown, single sourced, GMO free, artisanal, grade-A jealousy.


[–]NSFWIssue 49 points 4 days ago

ITT: No one remembers that unflattering photos exist

I have some problems with some of these comments, but the point still stands. Looks: not the most important thing to everyone.

 

[ardour]

You know how it feels to be constantly evaluating every sentence you're are going to say before you say it? Because you know that at the first wrong wording, at the first misinterpretation, all that effort goes away. And worst of all is how I see people fail miserably in all the things I named but at the end of the day they still have someone how would say "I love you" to them with all the sincerity in the world. They would still have someone how truly want to believe they are perfect.

I have the same frustration about the Just World / 'just have confidence' advice.

The cliquey people I came across always seemed to judge me for any reason no matter how small - like if I didn't return a smile in one instance, or sounding short in another. Their friend circles invariably consisted of the conventionally attractive. These are the people who look for 'legitimate' ways to dislike someone instead of admitting to themselves what it's actually about. The who didn't care so much about confidence or awkwardness had a much wider range of friends that could include me. So I'm inclined to think that socializing requires good will on both sides, rather than the onus being placed entirely on the person who feels unwanted.

Also, this guy Chris Reid is pretty average looking outside of his weight (bad photo also), it's plausible that she finds him physically attractive anyway.

 

[LonelyInAtl]

I'm sure you have good qualities within yourself, TB. We tend to overly critical of ourselves most of the time. Sometimes you just have to trust and believe that you've got some good qualities that women will see, and then they will see it.

I'm sure all of us have good qualities inside. However, others must get past the outside to see them. That's the crux of the matter. I have qualities that I've been told would make women line up at my door, but it requires them to get past the pitted exterior.

• PhD in Computer Science from a prestigious engineering university
• Do volunteer work with homeless women and animal rescues
• Homeowner since 24
• Likes kids
• Good sense of humor
• Loyal and loving
• Great career
• Private Pilot
• Loves the outdoors

However, these qualities never get a chance to show themselves because I'm prejudged by my lack of looks and automatically dismissed or friend-zoned.

 

[Nicolelt]

I'm sure you have good qualities within yourself, TB. We tend to overly critical of ourselves most of the time. Sometimes you just have to trust and believe that you've got some good qualities that women will see, and then they will see it.

I'm sure all of us have good qualities inside. However, others must get past the outside to see them. That's the crux of the matter. I have qualities that I've been told would make women line up at my door, but it requires them to get past the pitted exterior.

• PhD in Computer Science from a prestigious engineering university
• Do volunteer work with homeless women and animal rescues
• Homeowner since 24
• Likes kids
• Good sense of humor
• Loyal and loving
• Great career
• Private Pilot
• Loves the outdoors

However, these qualities never get a chance to show themselves because I'm prejudged by my lack of looks and automatically dismissed or friend-zoned.

I think it is more how you interact with people than your credentials though.

 

[LonelyInAtl]

Have you ever watched Family Guy? You know how everyone on that show calls Meg ugly and fat. There is an episode where they are living at Lois's dad's house in the houses with all the help from Mexico, and the guys there whistle at her and are like "I want to feel your mustache against mine"

Yuck, but that society finds her pretty.

I don't think it's because they thought she was pretty. I think it's because they thought she might be desperate and an easy "score".

---

I think it is more how you interact with people than your credentials though.

But the core issue still remains, regardless of how you interact.