Questions for the Men

[Xpendable]

It would be much more clear if I was in the chat room. Explain the contradiction.

 

[TheLoadedDog]

I think the mention of rapists is a whole different matter. Any psychologist wil tell you that rape is not about sex. No man has such an overpowering need to orgasm that he will do that. It's about POWER. They have chemically castrated rapists, and they still go on to attack women. Often they do it even more, because they are now emasculated and angry.

 

[Paraiyar]

I think the mention of rapists is a whole different matter.  Any psychologist wil tell you that rape is not about sex.  No man has such an overpowering need to orgasm that he will do that.  It's about POWER.  They have chemically castrated rapists, and they still go on to attack women.  Often they do it even more, because they are now emasculated and angry.

That's a common ideological slogan but it's not one supported by evidence or at least the the evidence shows a more complex reality:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...e-is-not-only-about-power-it-s-also-about-sex

 

[TheLoadedDog]

Interesting article. Thank you.

---

We genders are pretty messed up. Like that thing with women fighting. When men physically fight, it's about basically getting the other guy on the ground while you stand there like Tarzan beating your chest. Pure physical pain and domination. If you've ever seen women fight, it is quite different. They are not that interested in inflicting pain, usually. They try to rip one another's clothing off, because nakedness in public would be the ultimate humiliation.

Neither of these approaches is ideal. We are a messed up species.

 

[DarkSelene]

I could have sex if I wanted to, yes.  I've had offers, I just don't feel sex should be had if there isn't something more there.  Blame it on religion, blame it on some kind of label, I don't care, it's just how I feel about the topic. 

Sex is not something you NEED to survive.  It is nothing like eating or sleeping or breathing.  You NEED those to live, you don't NEED sex to live.

You choose to not have sex if not in a committed relationship, one doesn't choose to be a virgin forever (unless religious, etc). It's forced upon them for not being desirable enough, by society's standards!

Maybe it's not needed for survival, but to feel wanted is needed for one's mental well-being, at least once to feel worthy of a connection like that. Especially when it seems like people of all shapes and sizes have the chance to experience it, except you.

---

They try to rip one another's clothing off, because nakedness in public would be the ultimate humiliation.

Honestly, I'd go for the hair.

 

[Paraiyar]

Maybe it's not needed for survival, but to feel wanted is needed for one's mental well-being, at least once to feel worthy of a connection like that. Especially when it seems like people of all shapes and sizes have the chance to experience it, except you.

As someone with hardly any sexual experience I can attest to the fact that this is true and can make you feel dead inside. It is really easy to fall into the wrong pattern of thinking because of it and worsen things for yourself.

 

[TheRealCallie]

You choose to not have sex if not in a committed relationship, one doesn't choose to be a virgin forever (unless religious, etc). It's forced upon them for not being desirable enough, by society's standards!

Maybe it's not needed for survival, but to feel wanted is needed for one's mental well-being, at least once to feel worthy of a connection like that. Especially when it seems like people of all shapes and sizes have the chance to experience it, except you.

Yes, I CHOOSE to not have sex, I never said otherwise.  However, to say that some are FORCED to not have sex by an outside force is kind of bullshit.  Society isn't stopping them, THEY are stopping them.  It's not society that is making them undesirable. In a lot of cases, it's their attitude (whether that is fear or just negativity) or their own outrageous standards that stops them.  Unless society is tying them up and holding them captive, it's not forcing them to remain virgins.  
Take X and Ska for example.  They are both good looking guys, so it's not looks that are stopping them.  I can't speak for X because I don't know the cultural differences where he lives, but Ska could probably easily get a one night stand if he wanted to.  X could too, if he was in America (not sure about how that works where he is).  Para is a good looking guy too.  Most of the guys here are better looking than they think they are.  Obviously, I can't comment on those that haven't posted their pics.  
So yeah, nothing is FORCING them, except themselves. Maybe they don't want a one night stand, maybe fear is stopping them, maybe their standards are just too **** high, but no, it's not some stupid ass imaginary rules that are forcing someone into something they don't want.  That's a pretty lame excuse, IMO.

I never said sex wasn't important for those who want to have sex, I just said it's not VITAL.  Taking on the victim mentality and the "whoa is me, everyone but me" isn't going to help anyone.  Coddling them isn't going to help them.  Quite simply, NOTHING will help them until they want help.  Sure, they can say they do want help, but a lot of times they aren't willing to do the work.  They want a quick fix (hence going to prostitutes).  They want to hear what they want to hear and fresia anyone who dares try to tell them differently.

 

[Paraiyar]

I have to agree that in my case it's been an internal problem that has caused my situation and not really a societal one.

 

[user 139760]

I think the mention of rapists is a whole different matter.  Any psychologist wil tell you that rape is not about sex.  No man has such an overpowering need to orgasm that he will do that.  It's about POWER.  They have chemically castrated rapists, and they still go on to attack women.  Often they do it even more, because they are now emasculated and angry.

That's a common ideological slogan but it's not one supported by evidence or at least the the evidence shows a more complex reality:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...e-is-not-only-about-power-it-s-also-about-sex

Interesting article indeed. Sadly, not one I actually needed to read; I'm living it.

I've had long conversations with both my ex and my daughters, "adult" conversations (I hate to be having these about such a hard subject as this after all that's happened, I'm very strong on the thought kids should remain kids as long as humanly possible, but the die is cast, I don't have a choice anymore) who are looking for an explication, or a reason, as to why their trust in someone was betrayed after so long, but the ugly, glaring truth there is behind it is that there more likely isn't a clear cut reason. I'm sure power plays a part, but it's looking like the reason are sicker and much more idiotic as to deciding to rape children. You know, everything to help me sleep soundly at night...

On an unrelated topic, but related to the questions for men, although it's kind of heavy a subject, still, it's something that tortures me sometimes.

I feel guilty for not killing him. Like...I don't know..."less of a man"? No, I don't think that's quite right. Besides which, my supposed virility or not is the last thing I ever wondered about in my life. But in a sense...I sometimes feel like I'm making a mistake. Like I should decide "screw it, I'll do the time, at least it's for the right reasons".
Is that...wrong? (Of course its wrong, end result will land me 25+ years) but is it morally wrong? I always viewed a big difference between law and justice.
Letting an abuser like that walk...it feels wrong. I have trouble with it. Not necessarily anger or revenge type of trouble. Trouble with the concept.

Also...do you believe in the trend of treating these people, because they are sick, not criminals? Or are we wasting our times and letting criminals walk "free" (they aren't free, but they're not behind bars)?

 

[DarkSelene]

Yes, I CHOOSE to not have sex, I never said otherwise.  However, to say that some are FORCED to not have sex by an outside force is kind of bullshit.  Society isn't stopping them, THEY are stopping them.  It's not society that is making them undesirable. In a lot of cases, it's their attitude (whether that is fear or just negativity) or their own outrageous standards that stops them.  Unless society is tying them up and holding them captive, it's not forcing them to remain virgins.  
Take X and Ska for example.  They are both good looking guys, so it's not looks that are stopping them.  I can't speak for X because I don't know the cultural differences where he lives, but Ska could probably easily get a one night stand if he wanted to.  X could too, if he was in America (not sure about how that works where he is).  Para is a good looking guy too.  Most of the guys here are better looking than they think they are.  Obviously, I can't comment on those that haven't posted their pics.  
So yeah, nothing is FORCING them, except themselves. Maybe they don't want a one night stand, maybe fear is stopping them, maybe their standards are just too **** high, but no, it's not some stupid ass imaginary rules that are forcing someone into something they don't want.  That's a pretty lame excuse, IMO.

I never said sex wasn't important for those who want to have sex, I just said it's not VITAL.  Taking on the victim mentality and the "whoa is me, everyone but me" isn't going to help anyone.  Coddling them isn't going to help them.  Quite simply, NOTHING will help them until they want help.  Sure, they can say they do want help, but a lot of times they aren't willing to do the work.  They want a quick fix (hence going to prostitutes).  They want to hear what they want to hear and fresia anyone who dares try to tell them differently.

Society dictates what is desirable.

I understood what you said about it not being vital the first time. 
It's not to pity or coddle. My point is that when you look around and see people of all shapes and sizes, all kinds of personalities, having sex and getting in relationships as if it's the most normal thing to do (which it is)  - it's difficult to not feel like there's something peculiar about yourself that's holding you back and as the years go by also very difficult to not feel inadequate, angry, depressed about this when it looks so easy to everyone else. 


Let's say they don't want something casual, like a one night stand, what is the work then? It's not surface level then, they can't just be pretty, would have to offer something else. What would that be?

 

[DarkSelene]

On an unrelated topic, but related to the questions for men, although it's kind of heavy a subject, still, it's something that tortures me sometimes.

I feel guilty for not killing him. Like...I don't know..."less of a man"? No, I don't think that's quite right. Besides which, my supposed virility or not is the last thing I ever wondered about in my life. But in a sense...I sometimes feel like I'm making a mistake. Like I should decide "screw it, I'll do the time, at least it's for the right reasons".
Is that...wrong? (Of course its wrong, end result will land me 25+ years) but is it morally wrong? I always viewed a big difference between law and justice.
Letting an abuser like that walk...it feels wrong. I have trouble with it. Not necessarily anger or revenge type of trouble. Trouble with the concept.

Also...do you believe in the trend of treating these people, because they are sick, not criminals? Or are we wasting our times and letting criminals walk "free" (they aren't free, but they're not behind bars)?

Maybe they're sick, maybe not... but if they committed the crime, they should be locked up - there's no reason why they can't get treated inside if that's the case. I think much worse is the idea that pedophilia, without the intent to violate any laws, should be accepted as just a fetish.

Law is structured, justice is personal. Making justice with your own hands, at will, would turn this into a vengeful world quickly. Who's to say you're not just as heinous for killing him for it? The reasons might be good for you, but it's still killing someone... 

I know this is quite the subject and I'm not trying to diminish your feelings about it, just commenting on the morality of the topic.

 

[user 139760]

Nah, I get it. I'm just interested in what people think on this. I don't think anything in the world will ever change my feelings on it, except maybe time. But I always listen to what people have to say, specially if they don't say it like I would.

And yeah, I saw that whole "pedo is a just fetish" movement going on, I think it was facebook. I won't give you my opinions of that, I'll take the 5th.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Yes, I CHOOSE to not have sex, I never said otherwise.  However, to say that some are FORCED to not have sex by an outside force is kind of bullshit.  Society isn't stopping them, THEY are stopping them.  It's not society that is making them undesirable. In a lot of cases, it's their attitude (whether that is fear or just negativity) or their own outrageous standards that stops them.  Unless society is tying them up and holding them captive, it's not forcing them to remain virgins.  
Take X and Ska for example.  They are both good looking guys, so it's not looks that are stopping them.  I can't speak for X because I don't know the cultural differences where he lives, but Ska could probably easily get a one night stand if he wanted to.  X could too, if he was in America (not sure about how that works where he is).  Para is a good looking guy too.  Most of the guys here are better looking than they think they are.  Obviously, I can't comment on those that haven't posted their pics.  
So yeah, nothing is FORCING them, except themselves. Maybe they don't want a one night stand, maybe fear is stopping them, maybe their standards are just too **** high, but no, it's not some stupid ass imaginary rules that are forcing someone into something they don't want.  That's a pretty lame excuse, IMO.

I never said sex wasn't important for those who want to have sex, I just said it's not VITAL.  Taking on the victim mentality and the "whoa is me, everyone but me" isn't going to help anyone.  Coddling them isn't going to help them.  Quite simply, NOTHING will help them until they want help.  Sure, they can say they do want help, but a lot of times they aren't willing to do the work.  They want a quick fix (hence going to prostitutes).  They want to hear what they want to hear and fresia anyone who dares try to tell them differently.

Society dictates what is desirable.

I understood what you said about it not being vital the first time. 
It's not to pity or coddle. My point is that when you look around and see people of all shapes and sizes, all kinds of personalities, having sex and getting in relationships as if it's the most normal thing to do (which it is)  - it's difficult to not feel like there's something peculiar about yourself that's holding you back and as the years go by also very difficult to not feel inadequate, angry, depressed about this when it looks so easy to everyone else. 


Let's say they don't want something casual, like a one night stand, what is the work then? It's not surface level then, they can't just be pretty, would have to offer something else. What would that be?

Wrong, PEOPLE dictate what is desirable to THEM, each as an individual.  Those who let society dictate what they do and don't do are, for all intents and purposes, shallow or maybe just a coward and I don't understand why people would want someone that can be so easily influenced about what they want.
My point is you can blame whatever the fresia you want, but it all boils down to YOURSELF and how you view the world and how you go about getting what you want.  If you want to continue to play the victim and blame anything and anyone but yourself for your issues, that's on you and you aren't going to get anywhere.  There are very few situations that can actually be blamed on something or someone else and there are no situations that are entirely to blame on something or someone else. 
If you want to let whatever is dragging you down dictate how you feel about the world and the cards you are currently holding in your hand, that's on you, milk that pity party for all it's worth and see how far you get.  But maybe, if you open your eyes, maybe see what people around you are seeing and take some advice that you might be given and actually TRY, maybe you'll see a little bit of change.  Maybe after that little bit of change, you'll start seeing more that maybe it's all internal and if you work really hard to get that honeysuckle out of your head and start thinking differently, you'll find that honeysuckle isn't as bad as you thought it was.

You said it yourself, people of all shapes and sizes are getting what they want in life, yet some of the people here aren't?  Why do you think that is?  The bad boys aren't to blame, money isn't to blame (although, it does help if you can support yourself), society isn't to blame, nothing of the other excuses are to blame.

 

[user 115627]

Agree with Selene. Even if it would seem like inflicting righteous justice to an awful human being, you would also inevitably ruin your own life and conscience. And that would just be putting more energy into making the earth a worse place instead of a better one. What's done is done. Find purpose in something else than just sacrificing yourself for that cause.

---

Society is made of...people? Individuals? Each one is adding their individual™ desires to the pile...but where do they get those?

 

[TheRealCallie]

I think the mention of rapists is a whole different matter.  Any psychologist wil tell you that rape is not about sex.  No man has such an overpowering need to orgasm that he will do that.  It's about POWER.  They have chemically castrated rapists, and they still go on to attack women.  Often they do it even more, because they are now emasculated and angry.

That's a common ideological slogan but it's not one supported by evidence or at least the the evidence shows a more complex reality:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...e-is-not-only-about-power-it-s-also-about-sex

Interesting article indeed. Sadly, not one I actually needed to read; I'm living it.

I've had long conversations with both my ex and my daughters, "adult" conversations (I hate to be having these about such a hard subject as this after all that's happened, I'm very strong on the thought kids should remain kids as long as humanly possible, but the die is cast, I don't have a choice anymore) who are looking for an explication, or a reason, as to why their trust in someone was betrayed after so long, but the ugly, glaring truth there is behind it is that there more likely isn't a clear cut reason. I'm sure power plays a part, but it's looking like the reason are sicker and much more idiotic as to deciding to rape children. You know, everything to help me sleep soundly at night...

On an unrelated topic, but related to the questions for men, although it's kind of heavy a subject, still, it's something that tortures me sometimes.

I feel guilty for not killing him. Like...I don't know..."less of a man"? No, I don't think that's quite right. Besides which, my supposed virility or not is the last thing I ever wondered about in my life. But in a sense...I sometimes feel like I'm making a mistake. Like I should decide "screw it, I'll do the time, at least it's for the right reasons".
Is that...wrong? (Of course its wrong, end result will land me 25+ years) but is it morally wrong? I always viewed a big difference between law and justice.
Letting an abuser like that walk...it feels wrong. I have trouble with it. Not necessarily anger or revenge type of trouble. Trouble with the concept.

Also...do you believe in the trend of treating these people, because they are sick, not criminals? Or are we wasting our times and letting criminals walk "free" (they aren't free, but they're not behind bars)?

Sometimes, being locked up in a psych ward is worse than being in jail.  In jail, you get books and outside time, exercise and access to visitors, the opportunity to write to the outside world, etc.  In a psych ward, you can't always do those things, depending on what you are in for and what the "treatment" is.  Do I feel an "insanity" plea is a good thing?  No, I don't, it's a copout.  A way to get out of potential death sentence or abuse in prison. 

As for your own thoughts...I don't think it's unusual to have those thoughts, but I also don't think you should act on them.

 

[user 139760]

Agree with Selene. Even if it would seem like inflicting righteous justice to an awful human being, you would also inevitably ruin your own life and conscience. And that would just be putting more energy into making the earth a worse place instead of a better one. What's done is done. Find purpose in something else than just sacrificing yourself for that cause.

It's not really sacrificing myself to the cause that worries me, if such a thing can be said.
Remove ego. Remove feelings, remove everything; I'm supposed to sleep at night, from the moment he walks out of that cell (which, if the news is any indication of how these things work, won't be that long, maybe a couple years) to however long it is until he dies of old age, wondering if he isn't trying to force my daughter's appartment door open one night because he went nutzoid.
I never lived my life in fear, I don't think it's healthy; I will have to for the next 40 some odd years.
That's what I mean by mistake. Crossing my fingers and hoping nothing happens isn't a very calming concept.
But I'm not so sure there's anything I can do about it. Well there is, but I'm not convince it would be better in the long run.
I'm just scared of being wrong.

LOL Does any of this make sense? I mean, I usually ponder these things by myself at night. Sometimes I think I'm just crazy. Or paranoid. But there's 2 things can't really live my life with. One of them was that. The other...well I'm terrified of the other happening. If something else happens to those kids, there' snot going to be much rationalisation going on.

 

[TheLoadedDog]

It kinda of reminds me of a saying they have in Latin America:

"A 'madman' never cuts off his own balls."

 

[user 139760]

It kinda of reminds me of a saying they have in Latin America:

"A 'madman' never cuts off his own balls."

AH. THAT makes sense. I get it.

 

[TheRealCallie]

---

Society is made of...people? Individuals? Each one is adding their individual™ desires to the pile...but where do they get those?

---

I would assume all these society bullshit claims come from the "popular" people.  Famous people, people in the spotlight.  People see what they do and want to be JUST LIKE THEM, because OMG, they're awesome, even if a lot of them are actually horrible people.  Not all of them, mind you, but a lot of them.  Why do you think everyone is dressing like sluts now (no offense if you dress like that, I guess).  Even Taylor Swift has fallen into dressing in slutty attire.  Remember back when she was all innocent and conservative?  Hollywood got to her, I guess.  lol

Why does there have to be a "pile"?  I think more people than most realize actually have thoughts of their own that aren't influenced by what "society" thinks.

 

[TheLoadedDog]

Paedophilia is weird. D'uh. I had the usual hatred of those men. But then I saw one interviewed on TV.

It was quite confronting. He said, basically: "I am a paedophile. I am sexually attracted to children. I was born this way. But I recognise it is abhorrent. I have never touched a child, and I never will."


I can't say I really liked the guy, but it did make me think.