Questions for the Men

[user 115627]

Unlike in math, the distance between 0 and 1 is far greater than the distance between 1 and infinity.

I don't know for how many an escort experience would have the same value as a genuine sexual experience.

 

[Xpendable]

At least one before turning 20.

Why?

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and is that at least one person or one time?  And does it matter if they pay for it or not?

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And what happens is that is the ONLY time they have sex until they are 34, does it still make them not a "loser"?

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Not wanting to be super specific but it's necessary. I've observed a common consensus about what is a regular sexual initiation on the western world. By looking, you can find many surveys and studies about the average age of sexual awakening in various countries. There are also percentages of how many people lose their virginity at a certain age, and of course the older you are the smallest the number. For example, where I live the average is 15 to 19 years; this being around 75% form men. From 21 to 24 it's 11% and only 3% from 27 to 3.

Most people don't see this stats but know this distribution is quite accurate and therefore they form a pretty rigid view of who is socially adaptative and who isn't. If you defy the norm, you ought to have social flaws; those being described or just intuited by the people you interact with. So 20 it's a little late, as internalized by society, but not terribly late on the general spectrum. For most that's just an "adequate" age to lose it. This translates in most countries from the west and it's treated in a similar fashion.

Now, if it was just one time and never again? Definitely means being judged too. It may count as an accident or that you got lucky one time or you were used. Tha's how people rationalize a single sexual encounter. If you pay is also deemed as a loser trait because you could never assure an escort would have slept with you for free. And if you only had escorts and nothing more, then it's obvious you can't get it in any other way.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Okay, so if your society was heavily into drugs and/or alcohol, does that mean you would be a loser if you didn't do either of those things?

 

[Xpendable]

Okay, so if your society was heavily into drugs and/or alcohol, does that mean you would be a loser if you didn't do either of those things?

Sex is a human imperative and a biological process. Drugs aren't. Ironically enough, not doing those things do in fact makes you a loser under the rules of low and high inhibition and their importance for attracting the opposite sex.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Okay, so if your society was heavily into drugs and/or alcohol, does that mean you would be a loser if you didn't do either of those things?

Sex is a human imperative and a biological process. Drugs aren't. Ironically enough, not doing those things do in fact makes you a loser under the rules of low and high inhibition and their importance for attracting the opposite sex.

But what about people who can't have kids?  Does that mean they aren't a loser if you don't have sex because even if you do, you couldn't create a child? 
Also, so if you were in a drug society, would you do drugs so you weren't "different," and therefore wouldn't be a "loser"?

 

[Xpendable]

Again, drugs are not a biological urge. Is not about replicating any activity as normal, but to be well adjusted to the activities that are inherently human. Being outside the norm or not only matters on how the activity you do is relevant to mate selection. Having kids or not is irrelevant. We are a species that has sex as recreation and relies on many social factors to mate, while every other animal has a mating season and reproduce in totally utilitarian fashion.

 

[user 139760]

I've followed the convo more or less so far, I have a question, Expendable; what of religion?
I don't know where you are, where I am was an ex-catholic (very strong at the time) bastion where sex before marriage was considered incredibly sinful and illegal until maybe the late 90's. Not as much now, but there are still many many different congregations and following of strong religious people who do uphold that same belief, no sex before marriage.

Would these be considered outside the norm if they marry in their mid-20's, early 30's? (I do believe most do, at least in my area).

 

[Xpendable]

Religious reasons are pretty much the only way to justify being "saving yourself" for someone, but it's extremely rare here and Catholics do what they please outside the church. Only small christian factions kinda do this but at the end, no one cares because is not actually telling of someone's ability to attract and have sex with someone.

 

[TheRealCallie]

But why does society have such a hold on you? Do you want to have sex simply because society says you should? Doesn't that really just make you a sheep? Why do you all want to do something simply because everyone else is doing it.
I have only had sex with ONE person and quite honestly, I will only have sex with a person if I am in a committed relationship with feelings. No, I'm not going to sit here an put a label on myself because I don't like labels, that's just who I am. I am attracted to people, but I refuse to have one night stands or have sex simply to have sex. I have no desire to be what society things I should be because I am my own person, I decide what I'm going to do and when I'm going to do it.
You say drugs aren't a biological urge, but there are probably some people that would disagree with that. Some people would also argue with sex being a biological urge because not everyone needs it or wants it.

 

[user 139760]

Religious reasons are pretty much the only way to justify being "saving yourself" for someone, but it's extremely rare here and Catholics do what they please outside the church. Only small christian factions kinda do this but at the end, no one cares because is not actually telling of someone's ability to attract and have sex with someone.

But in essence, they would still be considered "outside cultural norms", because that's what we're talking about here, right? Socially acceptable or at least generalized tendencies or norms?
OH! I got another question too; do you really think people are so in tune or so aware of this cultural norm as to denigrate someone who doesn't fit in? Has that been your experience or one that's been related to you, that those who don't fit those statistic above will automatically be considered lacking? What I mean is, do people really judge those 21 to 24 or 24 to 30? Is that something that's recorded as happening?
I'm just curious, I don't ever remember someone I know being judge for being a virgin. In fact, it's something most guys NEVER talk about(in my experience). Sexual relations, I mean.

 

[Xpendable]

Societal rules form around sex, not the other way around.

 

[Xpendable]

But why does society have such a hold on you?  Do you want to have sex simply because society says you should?  Doesn't that really just make you a sheep?  Why do you all want to do something simply because everyone else is doing it.  

No, I want to have sex because I'm human. I don't care what society says, I care for what society does to me independent of if I care or not. 

I have only had sex with ONE person and quite honestly, I will only have sex with a person if I am in a committed relationship with feelings.  No, I'm not going to sit here an put a label on myself because I don't like labels, that's just who I am.  I am attracted to people, but I refuse to have one night stands or have sex simply to have sex.  I have no desire to be what society things I should be because I am my own person, I decide what I'm going to do and when I'm going to do it.  

Yes, but could you have one-night stands if you wanted to? Is your choice to have this one person or it's impossible to attract another man? I bet not.
Maybe you don't have the desire to have sex as much but that's because men and women are immensely different in that aspect.

You say drugs aren't a biological urge, but there are probably some people that would disagree with that. Some people would also argue with sex being a biological urge because not everyone needs it or wants it.

Babies don't cry because they want to smoke weed. Everything we crave based on instincts is a biological urge. Eat, sleep, defecate and reproduce as a late need. Asexuals are extremely rare and I wouldn't agree that humans have a great fraction that doesn't need sex; either for reproduction or pleasure. That is simply not true. That's like saying not all people need to sleep because some have insomnia. It's a rare deviation and it's not worth as a counter-argument.

 

[TheRealCallie]

But why does society have such a hold on you?  Do you want to have sex simply because society says you should?  Doesn't that really just make you a sheep?  Why do you all want to do something simply because everyone else is doing it.  

No, I want to have sex because I'm human. I don't care what society says, I care for what society does to me independent of if I care or not. 

I have only had sex with ONE person and quite honestly, I will only have sex with a person if I am in a committed relationship with feelings.  No, I'm not going to sit here an put a label on myself because I don't like labels, that's just who I am.  I am attracted to people, but I refuse to have one night stands or have sex simply to have sex.  I have no desire to be what society things I should be because I am my own person, I decide what I'm going to do and when I'm going to do it.  

Yes, but could you have one-night stands if you wanted to? Is your choice to have this one person or it's impossible to attract another man? I bet not.
Maybe you don't have the desire to have sex as much but that's because men and women are immensely different in that aspect.

You say drugs aren't a biological urge, but there are probably some people that would disagree with that. Some people would also argue with sex being a biological urge because not everyone needs it or wants it.

Babies don't cry because they want to smoke weed. Everything we crave based on instincts is a biological urge. Eat, sleep, defecate and reproduce as a late need. Asexuals are extremely rare and I wouldn't agree that humans have a great fraction that doesn't need sex; either for reproduction or pleasure. That is simply not true. That's like saying not all people need to sleep because some have insomnia. It's a rare deviation and it's not worth as a counter-argument.

I could have sex if I wanted to, yes.  I've had offers, I just don't feel sex should be had if there isn't something more there.  Blame it on religion, blame it on some kind of label, I don't care, it's just how I feel about the topic. 

Babies DO cry for drugs if they were born with an addiction.... 

Sex is not something you NEED to survive.  It is nothing like eating or sleeping or breathing.  You NEED those to live, you don't NEED sex to live.

 

[TheLoadedDog]

Sex is not something you NEED to survive.  It is nothing like eating or sleeping or breathing.  You NEED those to live, you don't NEED sex to live.

This.

I've have used the analogy of chocolate cake.  I like sex.  I like chocolate cake.  But I couldn't tell you the last time I bothered to actually get some chocolate cake.  I can live without it.

I can't believe I'm sharing so much stuff with you people (this is not like me), but here goes....

I think it's just simply that different people have different sex drives.  I would describe mine as average for a guy when I was younger, and now in middle age, I'd put it as slightly low to average.  I had a partner who ruined me for sex.  I fell in with her when I was thirty years old.  She was the most highly sexed person I have ever met.  We didn't miss a single day (yes EVERY day of the month, if you get my drift) for the first ten months.  Five times a day was not unusual.  I was in every young man's heaven.  Or so I thought.  If I wasn't ready to jump into bed with her, she'd say stuff like, "you don't love me any more".    So do you know what happened?  Sex basically became a chore.  Who would have thought a young man would feel that way?  But I did.  I often just wanted to read a book.

when we separated, I spent twelve years utterly celibate.  I was fine with this.  Single not looking is a real thing.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Sex is not something you NEED to survive.  It is nothing like eating or sleeping or breathing.  You NEED those to live, you don't NEED sex to live.

This.

I've have used the analogy of chocolate cake.  I like sex.  I like chocolate cake.  But I couldn't tell you the last time I bothered to actually get some chocolate cake.  I can live without it.

Are you CRAZY????? :club:

 

[Xpendable]

Babies are not born with addictions as a genetic normality, it only happens when the mother consumes, so it's not a biological human trait. It's true you won't die for lack of sex but your legacy will. Life is meant to be passed forward and it only happens that this need can transcend your life because is something you produce instead of consuming, like the other immediate needs. If sex wasn't vital for humans, we wouldn't even think about it, we wouldn't define our entire identity on what genitals we have or what connections we form with the direct results of our sexual activities: Families. Only because is not lethal it doesn't mean is not important for our mental health. Almost all of our social behavior has form in regards to sex, we like it or not.

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I think it's just simply that different people have different sex drives.  I would describe mine as average for a guy when I was younger, and now in middle age, I'd put it as slightly low to average.  I had a partner who ruined me for sex.  I fell in with her when I was thirty years old.  She was the most highly sexed person I have ever met.  We didn't miss a single day (yes EVERY day of the month, if you get my drift) for the first ten months.  Five times a day was not unusual.  I was in every young man's heaven.  Or so I thought.  If I wasn't ready to jump into bed with her, she'd say stuff like, "you don't love me any more".    So do you know what happened?  Sex basically became a chore.  Who would have thought a young man would feel that way?  But I did.  I often just wanted to read a book.

when we separated, I spent twelve years utterly celibate.  I was fine with this.  Single not looking is a real thing.

Sex is like money, you only care about it when you don't have it. Of course, you got bored or felt overwhelmed by the quantity and I'm sure I would too. Now think about if you had to decide between sex every day for a year or not sex since you were born and tell me what situation sounds worst.

 

[TheLoadedDog]

Now think about if you had to decide between sex every day for a year or not sex since you were born and tell me what situation sounds worst.

That's actually a trickier question to answer than it looks at first glance.  Having been overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of sex and also having been essentially celibate, my answer is...   I don't know.

Of course, as a man, people just assume I am lying if I tell them that I dobn't find sex the greatest thing.  As I said, I do enjoy it (I am passingly normal), but I don't think it is all that.

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Now cuddles... well those are damned fine. Waking up in the morning with somebody you love asleep on your shoulder is better than sex. A lot better.

 

[user 139760]

I can't believe I'm sharing so much stuff with you people (this is not like me), but here goes....

I think it's just simply that different people have different sex drives.  I would describe mine as average for a guy when I was younger, and now in middle age, I'd put it as slightly low to average.  I had a partner who ruined me for sex.  I fell in with her when I was thirty years old.  She was the most highly sexed person I have ever met.  We didn't miss a single day (yes EVERY day of the month, if you get my drift) for the first ten months.  Five times a day was not unusual.  I was in every young man's heaven.  Or so I thought.  If I wasn't ready to jump into bed with her, she'd say stuff like, "you don't love me any more".    So do you know what happened?  Sex basically became a chore.  Who would have thought a young man would feel that way?  But I did.  I often just wanted to read a book.

when we separated, I spent twelve years utterly celibate.  I was fine with this.  Single not looking is a real thing.

LOL If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty much the same.

Dated a girl for two years. Most sexed up person I ever met. After more or less the same amount of time...sex became a chore (the relation soured for other reasons unrelated to sex afterwards, she was a rather...unstable lady at the time. I'm sure I contributed myself, too.).
Been 10 years single. Can't say I miss it. When I do, though...right hand. Plus she always pays the bill. ;-)

But I mean, I get exactly what Expendable is saying either. I mean, he is NOT wrong, not even slightly. It's actually an ongoing debate with people who treat rapists, including those who voluntarily submit themselves not only for therapy, but in some cases neuteuring; is sex an imperative or not? I believe the answer is simply; in some cases, yes, in some cases, not. It depends on your make up, your dna, but also on a variety of social factors. But in essence, we ARE biologically pushed to follow our urges.

However, I do ALSO think that, in some major part, society reinforces said behavior. Be it in movies, media, film, even the way we handle relationships, toys, books, therapists; we keep being told how men and women are supposed to be, how they are supposed to act. "Boys should play with GI JOEs, girls with BARBIES". That does have an impact on how our sex drives will mature growing up. In some cases negligeable, in some cases not, in some cases very deviant uncontrollable behavior (serial rapist) in some cases the entirely opposite effect (low to nill sex drives).

All that to say, in essence, that yes, "Societal rules form around sex" is true, but I'm not so convinced it's isn't the other way around. But of course, if we are always reminded sex is a biological URGE, an absolute, how will anyone ever question it? Is it really that much of an absolute, an uncontrollable urge?

I must say I find this whole topic fascinating. And you know, it's cool to share really deep stuff with each other, I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as hell would be the last person to judge anyone. I think this is the perfect place to do so.

Don't tell the cute girl on the 5th floor, though, please.
;-)

 

[Xpendable]

Of course, as a man, people just assume I am lying if I tell them that I dobn't find sex the greatest thing.  As I said, I do enjoy it (I am passingly normal), but I don't think it is all that.

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Because you had it. You already cannot comprehend what it is not having it, so you can think of it as not important. You can't really give me an answer because you haven't been where I am.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Babies are not born with addictions as a genetic normality, it only happens when the mother consumes, so it's not a biological human trait. It's true you won't die for lack of sex but your legacy will. Life is meant to be passed forward and it only happens that this need can transcend your life because is something you produce instead of consuming, like the other immediate needs. If sex wasn't vital for humans, we wouldn't even think about it, we wouldn't define our entire identity on what genitals we have or what connections we form with the direct results of our sexual activities: Families. Only because is not lethal it doesn't mean is not important for our mental health. Almost all of our social behavior has form in regards to sex, we like it or not.

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I think it's just simply that different people have different sex drives.  I would describe mine as average for a guy when I was younger, and now in middle age, I'd put it as slightly low to average.  I had a partner who ruined me for sex.  I fell in with her when I was thirty years old.  She was the most highly sexed person I have ever met.  We didn't miss a single day (yes EVERY day of the month, if you get my drift) for the first ten months.  Five times a day was not unusual.  I was in every young man's heaven.  Or so I thought.  If I wasn't ready to jump into bed with her, she'd say stuff like, "you don't love me any more".    So do you know what happened?  Sex basically became a chore.  Who would have thought a young man would feel that way?  But I did.  I often just wanted to read a book.

when we separated, I spent twelve years utterly celibate.  I was fine with this.  Single not looking is a real thing.

Sex is like money, you only care about it when you don't have it. Of course, you got bored or felt overwhelmed by the quantity and I'm sure I would too. Now think about if you had to decide between sex every day for a year or not sex since you were born and tell me what situation sounds worst.

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You know, I was actually kind of enjoying this debate with you, not because I wanted to prove you wrong, but because you were somewhat making sense and I was curious...but this isn't even logical and you contradicted yourself.