School Shootings

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TropicalStarfish said:
If you do any research and try to dig a little deeper than what the geniuses of the media have to say about, well, ANYTHING... You will find that the Virginia Tech shooter, I forget his name, was on SSRI's that were probably inducing mania.

This is important. So many people just assume things about occurances and what has been reported on them on the surface without looking deeper, that they accept the stereotypes and the uninformed assumptions that people make.

If people would just look deeper we'd have a more informed world. But people go of of assumptions and media stories that might not have all the facts.

 
TropicalStarfish said:
If everyone person you come in contact with in your daily life at their best either chooses to ignore you or at their worst chooses to torment you or inflict some sort of pain and or transference of pain, what would anyone in the world even mean to you more than just a pile of flesh that hurts you?

I know how that feels.

Fortunately, I have my own moral compass that prevents me from exacting revenge on an epic scale.

Thanks GOODNESS! :D
 
I agree with Tropical, for me - personally - it very much is a moral issue.
 
I didn't mean that it's moral to treat others like ****. That isn't moral at all.

But I meant that it's not necessarily how you treat someone, that creates monsters like this. It's a society issue, of everyone ignoring the elephant in the room.

For example, I am at home right now. I just saw my neighbors through the window, looking in. I would love for them to knock on the door, say "Josh, wanna talk?", and have a discussion.

Would they ever do that? No. Not even when my Grandma was sick and dying. My own family treats me like the black sheep of the family, even though they're all racist, sexist, and homophobic christian bigots. Maybe I am lucky that I am an outcast, in that regard...but it still makes me feel unwanted.

This is why I connect with artists like Marilyn Manson, Ozzy Osbourne, Peter Gabriel, and David Bowie, because they're "weird, yet cool." That's what I desire to be. I don't think I'll ever be as cool as them, but I try.

Irregardless, I am digressing. My point is that people know I never leave my house. Do they ever make an effort to get to know me, their neighbor? No. I am weird because I never leave my house. I have social anxiety and panic attacks, so I am weird. **** them.
 
LeaningIntoTheMuse said:
So I am weird. **** them.

I can relate to that. I am a loner by design. I intentionally don't conform and go against the grain. All around me, I see people who want to force me to conform to some sort of set of behaviors, or set of ideals, or train of thought. It seems everybody has 'something' to 'sell' and I don't want anything to do with it.

I trust my instincts. I trust my perceptions. I trust my judgment, ethics, and principles.

So, I can relate. People don't make an effort to reach out to me either. Friends never did. Family never did. Neighbors never did either. The only genuine human conversation that I have is with my customers, and I'm good at it, I do it a lot, and they like me.

But they aren't invested in changing me, controlling me, inhibiting me in some way.

I think that the vast majority of people want to 'control' others and therefore, when you are a black sheep (so to speak), you are a thorn in their sides because your existence is a constant reminder that you don't bow to the altar of their opinions and beliefs.

Yes.

****'em indeed.

I'd rather die alone than play their ****** game.
 
Frito Bandito said:
LeaningIntoTheMuse said:
So I am weird. **** them.

I can relate to that. I am a loner by design. I intentionally don't conform and go against the grain. All around me, I see people who want to force me to conform to some sort of set of behaviors, or set of ideals, or train of thought. It seems everybody has 'something' to 'sell' and I don't want anything to do with it.

I trust my instincts. I trust my perceptions. I trust my judgment, ethics, and principles.

So, I can relate. People don't make an effort to reach out to me either. Friends never did. Family never did. Neighbors never did either. The only genuine human conversation that I have is with my customers, and I'm good at it, I do it a lot, and they like me.

But they aren't invested in changing me, controlling me, inhibiting me in some way.

I think that the vast majority of people want to 'control' others and therefore, when you are a black sheep (so to speak), you are a thorn in their sides because your existence is a constant reminder that you don't bow to the altar of their opinions and beliefs.

Yes.

****'em indeed.

I'd rather die alone than play their ****** game.

I'm glad someone understands where I'm coming from.
 
LeaningIntoTheMuse said:
Sci-Fi said:
It's what the media likes to focus on. They want tragedy to add to tragedy. It makes us sympathize with the killer, seeing how bad their life was, what drove them to do what they did. It humanizes them more.

Actually, no, it doesn't.

It stereotypes loners and outcasts as "someone who will go mental one day and shoot everyone." It throws all introverts and people that are eccentric into a box, where everyone yells at you, "You are a freak! You are a weirdo! You are a child molester! You..."

You get the point.

We are people. We aren't loners who shoot people, or party/outgoing people who get shot. We are people.

As soon as someone realizes this, the bullying will stop, and people will stop getting shot over stupid crap.

I don't think it's about sympathy, why would we want to have sympathy for a killer?

I think it's mostly because our minds are so influenced by the scientific method/viewing point that we always need to find a reason for everything that happens in life. We dig through a murderer's life for juic details and highlight them because they make good stories and because people need to know that 'they can read the signs', that 'these things do have a reason and they can be prevented'. People need to be reassured, they need to believe that this wasn't random and that it can't ust happen to them out of the blue.


Minus said:
What do kids do with all of their guns then

That is such a strange phrase to me. It really shows we come from different 'worlds'.


Ak5 said:
This isn't a Gun discussion thread.

Anyway, back to my question: Why is it the "outgoing, smart and funny" people as the one's who get shot and the "quiet" people who do the shooting?

In Columbine the shooters were not bullied as previously believed, so why the contradiction?

Well, your original question was: why do these "shootings" happen?

A simple answer would be 'because there are guns to shoot people with'.

An interesting question might be: why aren't there as many mass school poisonings? I guess it shows that shootings are 'sexier' to these killers as they give them more direct attention and excitement. It also allows the killer to be more selective as to whom he/she'll shoot and it takes less planning/hassle.

TropicalStarfish said:
The real truth is nobody gives a damn or has any clue on how to prevent and or deal with the situations that lead up to such occurrences.

If you do any research and try to dig a little deeper than what the geniuses of the media have to say about, well, ANYTHING... You will find that the Virginia Tech shooter, I forget his name, was on SSRI's that were probably inducing mania.

This is the society we live in, and what's funnier is we some how think it's so great that the rest of the world needs to converted to the way we do things.

People get ignored, tormented, excluded, made fun of. Some people just don't fit in, can't figure out how to be cool enough, find acceptance...

There is no excusing such horrid acts of violence, but there are certainly more people to blame than just the shooters. Are we all not to blame for such horrific ignorance as to be so unaware of the world we live in to let some one go missing long enough to decide to do something like this?

Or maybe we all should be excused. Did the world or the universe ever say living life would make complete sense and that everything that ever happened would be understandable. I think a great majority of school shootings could have been prevented if the shooters prior to coming to the decisions they did, had found a friend.

It is so important to find some one or something you can confide in, and I think there are many people who simply lack that. If everyone person you come in contact with in your daily life at their best either chooses to ignore you or at their worst chooses to torment you or inflict some sort of pain and or transference of pain, what would anyone in the world even mean to you more than just a pile of flesh that hurts you?

I mean really imagine it, people don't stop to do this, they are too busy thinking what the TV or the media tells them too.

Think about a day in the life of some one who in 1 year will decide to shoot a bunch of random people.

Let's say you wake up, your parents are oblivious to anything about who you are, and just take you to see psychiatrists or psychologists when something is wrong because they dont' know what to do and frankly don't care all that much. When you go to school people seem well enough to just ignore you and every attempt you make at finding friends, fitting in, or finding a group or something to belong to ends in either being ignored, made fun of, made to feel awkward, or down right tormented. You aren't the best in school so you never find any escape through study or teachers you can impress. You don't fit in the with jocks, the nerds are to busy excluding you for not being nerdy enough, the girls want nothing to do with you, the outcasts don't think your good enough to be a part of their counter-group...

You come home from another day of ghostly wandering, rejection, and or torment. You get a meal maybe and some time to get lost in the internet or play video games.

I mean it's like germaphobia, except now we are making human beings into the germs. We label people with fancy made up medical terms, we call people sociopathic, crazy, and inhuman. We dehumanize people, make up thought crimes to convict people of, and set up defense mechanisms.

If you were to live in a completely 100% germ free environment for a year, your ability to fight off infectious disease would slowly dwindle day by day. And that's exactly what we do today. We treat some people like diseases, and we slowly lose are ability to handle these types of people, deal with them, and maybe even successfully and in a healthy way incorporate them into our lives, as friends, coworkers, students, teachers... what have you. Kind of a flimsy analogy, but I speak from experience here.

I've befriended many an outcast in my life. And I'm not saying I did so out of the kindness of my heart, that I deserve any recognition. most of the time it happened by accident. I've become best friends with some one of whom, when I first met them, wanted nothing to do with them. I couldn't think of any reasonable and fair reason to ignore or even more rudely reject such individuals, however, and what I ended up finding was friends. Great people who have contributed to my growth as a human being as well as theirs.

We live in a time where if you are feeling social anxiety or nervousness, all you have to do is flip out your smart phone and pretend like you have something better to do than make an effort to step out of your boundaries.

And don't anybody fool yourself into thinking things like this are new. Many many years ago, when people actually had to work to earn a living, when America was an industrial force to be reckoned with. People like school shooters, DIDN"T EXIST! Why? Natural selection. They weren't fit for survival and or didn't have enough free time to even harbor such hatred against their peers. You either were privalaged enough to be educated or you worked your ass off till you died, be it at age 8 or 55.

I don't see what the fuss is about. I never go to school fearing a school shooting. Are there any diagnosable phobias for school shootings? It's a social problem, not an individual problem. I'd love to see the day companies get diagnosed with mental illnesses, lol. I mean corporations are people, right? So by that legal standard they are just as capable of mental and social disorder as any individual.

If you want to help be a force against preventing school shootings. It's real simple. Be a good friend to those sick, inhuman, and crazy people. The nice thing is, that by being a friend, you can prevent yourself from having to use such dehumanizing words, because they will be your friend, not some sick, inhuman, crazy person you have no place even fathoming where they are coming from and how they have felt, because you'll know, they'll be a friend, it won't be a mystery.

Just my thoughts...

I have to agree and disagree with this.

Agree because you make a lot of good points on how to treat these so called 'outcasts', on how to be better people in a better society. Your thoughts correspond a lot to mine and my moral compass.

Disagree because it is my belief that these shootings can't be avoided. There is no one, simple, general solution, these shootings have but one thing in common: they have nothing in common. Some people do it because they have no friends, others because they are misunderstood and then there's those who are sick/insane (and no amount of friends is going to change that).

What can be done? Do something about the guns/their means of killing. These aren't as diverse (yet) as their reasons.
 
I did not have access to guns when I was a kid. I also had parents that cared for me. Those are the 2 reasons I didn't go shooting up a school.
In 8th grade, I wanted to shoot up the school. I knew who I would shoot and had all kinds of schemes of how I would do it. I would have gone with explosions along side the guns.
But nothing ever came from it because I didn't have access to any of that type of stuff.

Things happen. You can't group all the killings together as been the same. Some could happen due to being bullied. Others could be cause of a drug deal gone bad. Others could be because the kid has mental issues or is just a bad kid. You have to find out the story behind the story before making judgments.

The thing I always hate about these things is sitting at work listening to people talking about how horrible the kid is who shot people. They never seem to grasp the concept that in some cases there is a reason behind the shootings. They think everyone that is a kid has a wonderful life. They never grasp the idea that some kids are not allowed to be happy.
 
The thing is, you can have a loving mother and still have a mental illness.

I had that. My mom is/was extremely loving and affectionate, and I had bipolar. Which screwed with my social life and peer standing. As a result, I developed social anxiety.

I know I am not this kid, but it's not always because of bullying that someone shoots up a school. Some are undiagnosed bipolar or schizophrenic.

That being stated, I never was violent, but there have been cases where the kid was violent because of mental illness.
 
I'd never condone such acts because innocent people always die, but I'd assume that if people **** with someone enough, eventually they will snap. Some snap by turning to drugs, others by shooting up a school. As to what constitutes "**** with someone" it really varies.

Personally I can't stand really stuck up people, and really wouldn't care if they died or help them if they are in a life or death situation. I would never hurt them myslef though (unless in defence). But for others, such things might make them want to shoot them.

But I think access to guns is a really important factor. Speaking 100% honestly, if I had access to guns at any time I'd probably be dead.
 
Well said, passage.

I don't know the story behind this guy, but he probably was bullied...and he finally snapped.
 
I think people can kill just because they want to. Not because of any bullying reasons. They'll probably have a mental health issue though.
 
I hope it's okay for me to copy and paste this, but apparently there was an ex-girlfriend involved.

One of the teenagers slain by alleged school shooter T.J. Lane was dating Lane's ex-girlfriend, students at the school told ABC News exclusively.

A group of friends close to Lane's former girlfriend told ABC News that the girl had dated Lane, and that after they broke up, she began seeing one of the victims, Russell King Jr. Lane felt forgotten after the couple broke up, one of the students said.

"She saw something she liked in him [Lane] that others didn't see," one student told ABC News. After dating Lane, she and King started to date on and off, but the relationship became more serious in recent months, the friends said.

King, 17, was one of five high school students shot in a rampage at Chardon High School on Monday by accused shooter T.J. Lane. Three students-- King, Demetrius Hewlin and Daniel Parmertor--died from their wounds.

Another wounded student, Joy Rickers, 18, has been released from the hospital and Nick Walczak, 17, remains hospitalized. The group of friends told ABC News that Lane also knew these students.

The version of events offered by the students suggest a motive behind the lethal shooting spree and contrasts with what the prosecutor has said.

Prosecutor David Joyce alleged at Lane's first court appearance that Lane "did not know the students, but chose them randomly." The prosecutor added, "This is not about bullying. This is not about drugs. This is someone who is not well."

A group of Chardon High School students close to Lane's ex-girlfriend said that King was the girl's current boyfriend and that Lane went right for him when he opened fire in the school's cafeteria.

The friends said they do not believe the shooting victims were chosen "randomly," as investigators have said.

King often told his friends that he loved the girl and was crazy about her, the group told ABC News. He allegedly made derogatory jokes about Lane, calling him names and threatening to beat him up, they said.

Lane reportedly said he was going to learn how to fight so that he could take on King. He was a thin, small teenager, but had been building up over the past year by lifting weights. Facebook photos showed a shirtless and muscular Lane posing for the camera.

Nate Mueller, who was sitting at the table with the victims the day of the shooting, told ABC News that when the firing began he turned to see Lane standing at his table and saw him take his second shot.

"That shot I saw TJ take had hit Russell [King] and he was over the table in a pool of blood, and Demetrius [Hewlin] was on the floor in a puddle of blood next to him," Mueller said. "Nick [Walczak] had not been hit yet as I jumped over him."

Mueller said Walczak, who was later determined to have been shot several times, was on the floor trying to crawl away and that he felt a bullet graze his ear. He did not get seriously injured, but has a small red mark on his ear.

The friends of the girlfriend told ABC News that the students all knew each other, which contradicts what family members of the victims have said.

"Danny had no relationship with that kid," victim Daniel Parmertor's father Ron Parmertor said at a news conference on Thursday.

Lane has been charged with three counts of aggravated murder, two counts of attempted aggravated murder and one count of felonious assault.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-schoo...nes-girlfriend/story?id=15834378#.T1FrCfVdA14
 
Remind me that when I go back to school, I'll be sure to ask every girl I date about her previous boyfriends and if he had mental issues.
 
Ak5 said:
Remind me that when I go back to school, I'll be sure to ask every girl I date about her previous boyfriends and if he had mental issues.

She'll say he did :p
 
SophiaGrace said:
Ak5 said:
Remind me that when I go back to school, I'll be sure to ask every girl I date about her previous boyfriends and if he had mental issues.

She'll say he did :p

Haha. :p

But on the side of this, I don't believe that breaking up with your girlfriend means you should go shooting up a school. It's a pretty poor excuse.
 
LeaningIntoTheMuse said:
SophiaGrace said:
Ak5 said:
Remind me that when I go back to school, I'll be sure to ask every girl I date about her previous boyfriends and if he had mental issues.

She'll say he did :p

Haha. :p

But on the side of this, I don't believe that breaking up with your girlfriend means you should go shooting up a school. It's a pretty poor excuse.

There's no excuse for shooting up a school.

 

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