Sexual Frustration...

[mimizu]

Almond ignored me in PM, because she said I always mistreat everyone on the forum, and I asked her to give an example. Does anyone else here feel mistreated by me? Big bad evil me.

She also has some social-darwinistic philosophy apparently, as she rates people based on how strong they are. i.e., "if you aren't fit to survive, then you should die". I am an evil person because I disagreed with this philosophy of hers.

 

[zeneida]

Almond ignored me in PM, because she said I always mistreat everyone on the forum, and I asked her to give an example. Does anyone else here feel mistreated by me? Big bad evil me.

She also has some social-darwinistic philosophy apparently, as she rates people based on how strong they are. i.e., "if you aren't fit to survive, then you should die". I am an evil person because I disagreed with this philosophy of hers.

Really? That would be strange since I would imagine that most of us are here through some form of this principle you've spoken about. Perhaps, there was a misunderstanding and you guys got off on the wrong foot (or second, third feet) and she just said that because of the hostility between you guys. I can't really take sides on any matter I did not witness personally.

 

[mimizu]

I sent her a PM (a while ago) talking about why men might feel insecure about being with women who are smarter than them. That question itself is not important anymore, since the subject is now something else.

Here is what she replied to me:

I believe though that the guy's value in the relationship would be one of provider and strength.

!!! Sounds like something you can hear from a white supremacist.

I never said I had to think I was smarter than the man. Only that I would like for my intelligence to not be dismissed. I have no time for a man who has to pretend I'm dumb to be secure. That man would be too weak for me.

Okay, obviously it's natural for her to feel annoyed/frustrated when she has to pretend to be stupider than she really is. But the point is, which words does she use to express her frustration? She doesn't say "I'm tired of it", or "it hurts me". Instead she says that such a man is simply too weak for her. . He is not bad because he dismisses her intelligence (or otherwise insults her), he is bad because he is weak. He is not enough to match her level of social dominance. She only wants to be of someone of equal worth to herself. That means, weak people don't have worth.

I thought at first that she was hurt by being thought of as stupider (or having to pretend that she is), that it makes her feel bad about herself. I thought she was sad and lonely and hurting. But no, actually she just hates weak people. It's simply a matter of wasting her time... so many worthless weaklings around to deal with.

Being weak psychologically... is the same as being sick, poor, old, homeless. It's a form of misery. So she applies a kind of selection to people. Anyone who is suffering must be in that state because they deserve it. They haven't been strong enough to avoid suffering. If they are weak and insecure, it's because they are inferior, defective. She will only mate with a good specimen of the human race. No inheritable diseases, good teeth, healthy social life, good income, proper skull shape, no missing limbs, etc, etc. Eugenical selection.

This person scares me.

 

[mimizu]

lol, and then this person accuses me of "mistreating everyone on the forum". How does that even fit into her philosophy? If someone is being mistreated, then it means they deserve it, so she should be happy.

What's the best way to cure diseases? Gas the sick.
What's the best way to decrease poverty? Burn the poor.

That's social darwinism, so there is no need to be sad about some worthless weaklings, who are being mistreated. The strong should rule the earth.

I don't get why did she come to this forum though. It's not the best place to seek for strong-willed, confident, dominant people, which is the type that she qualifies as "worthy to live".

 

[mimizu]

The word "mistreating" doesn't work either. Mis-treating means not treating someone properly. In social darwinism, mistreating a weak or sick person would mean having compassion for them. O_O

 

[zeneida]

I sent her a PM (a while ago) talking about why men might feel insecure about being with women who are smarter than them. That question itself is not important anymore, since the subject is now something else.

Here is what she replied to me:

I believe though that the guy's value in the relationship would be one of provider and strength.

!!! Sounds like something you can hear from a white supremacist.

I never said I had to think I was smarter than the man. Only that I would like for my intelligence to not be dismissed. I have no time for a man who has to pretend I'm dumb to be secure. That man would be too weak for me.

Okay, obviously it's natural for her to feel annoyed/frustrated when she has to pretend to be stupider than she really is. But the point is, which words does she use to express her frustration? She doesn't say "I'm tired of it", or "it hurts me". Instead she says that such a man is simply too weak for her. . He is not bad because he dismisses her intelligence (or otherwise insults her), he is bad because he is weak. He is not enough to match her level of social dominance. She only wants to be of someone of equal worth to herself. That means, weak people don't have worth.

I thought at first that she was hurt by being thought of as stupider (or having to pretend that she is), that it makes her feel bad about herself. I thought she was sad and lonely and hurting. But no, actually she just hates weak people. It's simply a matter of wasting her time... so many worthless weaklings around to deal with.

Being weak psychologically... is the same as being sick, poor, old, homeless. It's a form of misery. So she applies a kind of selection to people. Anyone who is suffering must be in that state because they deserve it. They haven't been strong enough to avoid suffering. If they are weak and insecure, it's because they are inferior, defective. She will only mate with a good specimen of the human race. No inheritable diseases, good teeth, healthy social life, good income, proper skull shape, no missing limbs, etc, etc. Eugenical selection.

This person scares me.

mimizu, I believe that you guys have a history that I have no right to interfere in. It seems to me that you're reading too much into what she had posted. I myself get irritated with people who have weak characters but at the same time I notice that I have my weak moments as well and forget this fact altogether. Perhaps when she made that statement, she was feeling more agitated or frustrated for whatever reason. As for the 'white supremacist' thing, I don't see that at all based on that quote. Keep in mind that I'm from a more conservative culture and I hear that kind of statement all the time, it doesn't mean Almond or the many people of my country or you are evil or wrong in your thinking. She never mentioned the word 'bad' or 'evil', just that she had no time or patience, I find myself to be like that at times but not only with men but with people, myself or life. Sometimes, I even get so irrational that it surprises me later on what a bad mood, stress or whatever can do to someone who would like to be as level headed as possible. We are all subject to such emotional and illogical moments of fluctuations. I bet you at one point believed one thing and changed your tune later on upon realization. You'll find sometimes, with the right timing and attitude (by both communicators), both can learn from each other and realize or understand the other with a clearer vision. I don't think she was referring to the social darwinism philosophy at all, I bet you, if she had read texts concerning such things, she may rethink her position or not even agree with what was written. But then again, perhaps you misread her or the context of her point. Perhaps she miscommunicated her opinion, there are many reasons that may be clearer once you guys have cleared the air of sorts. But I honestly don't see with what is so scary with what she has said. Many people have said it before and currently, it does not equate to their evilness or badness but of a different disposition (due to various factors).

I also noticed that many Americans or Westerners are too quick to judge someone as racist or sexist or being discriminate towards another, like one board I went to in IMDB for V for Vendetta, there was a long rant saying that it discriminates homosexuals. I don't know how you would take this or your interpretation of the film, but for me the movie was far from what the poster was accusing. Perhaps it has to do with your country as there are more people of different ethnicities there and the long history of slavery and discrimination has subjected many of its populants to extreme sensitivity over anything that may touch it or even not touch it.

Perhaps it isn't very nice of you to tell me such things about Almond behind her back as I'm not involved with either of your issues, it is both your fight or problem, no one else's, it is not very honorable now is it?

 

[mimizu]

I believe that you guys have a history that I have no right to interfere in.

But you are interferring, and defending her also. :shy:

It seems to me that you're reading too much into what she had posted. I myself get irritated with people who have weak characters

I get irritated with people who have strong characters, because those people want to stomp me into the ground. They want to subjugate, humiliate, and exploit people who are weaker than them, eg me. That's all I ever see in this world. Hierarchy, sadism and a thirst for dominance.

There is too much power, ambition and confidence, and too little charity, compassion and kindness. I have a theory that only people who are in pain can sympathize with someone else (although they don't necessarily do), and that love only exists as a crutch to help two wounded souls. Healthy people don't need love or friendship. They just form temporary alliances, so that it's easier to achieve their goals by working together.

As for the 'white supremacist' thing, I don't see that at all based on that quote.

White supremacists assign specific, rigid roles to men and women. And it seems there is no place for love in their "family model", it's just the husband should work and provide stability to the family, while the wife should concentrate on popping out as many babies as possible, for the purpose of raising them to be "strong" enough to dominate and exploit other people around them, so that they can raise more children who do the same thing as themselves.

I don't like it.

She never mentioned the word 'bad' or 'evil', just that she had no time or patience

I thought she was someone who is hurt and seeking compassion, but she is just sad about her time that she wasted on dealing with inferior weaklings. That makes her sound like a social darwinist. But yes, you are right, many people are social darwinists or supremacists without ever realizing it. Opinions such as hers are not just "common"; they are the dominant meme. It's the standard that most humans live by.

Except it's usually a bit more relaxed than SD proper, most people just have a certain set of criteria, if you meet them then you are considered "worthy to live", otherwise you're trash.

And those people "criticize" the Third Reich, when they are actually faithful to Nazi morals.

 

[zeneida]

I believe that you guys have a history that I have no right to interfere in.

But you are interferring, and defending her also. :shy:

Yes, you are right but I did it because she is not here to defend herself. It is not right or fair to talk about her behind her back.

It seems to me that you're reading too much into what she had posted. I myself get irritated with people who have weak characters

I get irritated with people who have strong characters, because those people want to stomp me into the ground. They want to subjugate, humiliate, and exploit people who are weaker than them, eg me. That's all I ever see in this world. Hierarchy, sadism and a thirst for dominance.

I get irritated as well with certain people who have either weak or strong characters, it seems that you have a strong character as well, as Almond and I have. But not every weak or strong-willed person is bad mimizu, we shouldn't generalize people or judge the many based on the few.

There is too much power, ambition and confidence, and too little charity, compassion and kindness. I have a theory that only people who are in pain can sympathize with someone else (although they don't necessarily do), and that love only exists as a crutch to help two wounded souls. Healthy people don't need love or friendship. They just form temporary alliances, so that it's easier to achieve their goals by working together.

I myself despise uncontrolled or unwise power, ambition or confidence and it seems we are both aware that there is too little charity, compassion and kindness, perhaps we should keep this in mind and try to apply these valuable traits and be careful who we judge. Because I'm pretty positive Hitler saw the Jewry as evil, he never considered otherwise, we should not make the same fatal error and erroneously label someone as such.

As for the 'white supremacist' thing, I don't see that at all based on that quote.

White supremacists assign specific, rigid roles to men and women. And it seems there is no place for love in their "family model", it's just the husband should work and provide stability to the family, while the wife should concentrate on popping out as many babies as possible, for the purpose of raising them to be "strong" enough to dominate and exploit other people around them, so that they can raise more children who do the same thing as themselves.

This is not a white supremacy thing, this rigidity in gender roles can be found in non-withe populations as well. We also have to keep in mind that being a homemaker or bearing and raising children are not trivial matters, in fact in my society it is placed at the highest regard and the most respected profession. BTW, Philippine society is a matriarchal culture as well as many SE Asian countries. The emphasis in our culture is family, this is the most important thing for us, therefore, the one who controls the family is the one who maintains the power. I'll give you my family as an example, my father represents the King but only symbolically (like the King or Queen of England of late) but my mother is the Prime Minister, she is the one person considered to have the overall authority concerning the most important of matters, she is a homemaker or house wife as you would call it (like the Prime Minister of England). She receives my father's entire, entire salary and takes care of all household matters (my father is rarely involved with any of this, if he requires money, he has to ask her and she decides if there is any left to give him as an allowance from the expenditures of the household). This is the common structure of a Filipino household. Here in my country, there was an old custom of dowry, it is the dowry the man offers the girl's parents to win her hand (this dowry came in either gifts or labor/service), I believe in the West it is the other way around?

I don't like it.

I myself don't like this rigidness of these gender roles though based on my upbringing, I believe the wife should handle all finances. I absolutely loath all household chores, I do not even know how to cook, with the exception of rice and I even depend on a rice cooker for that! :shy: I plan on working long before and while I am married and see no qualms if the man stays home and takes care of the household for a change though it would irk me terribly that he handles the finances.

She never mentioned the word 'bad' or 'evil', just that she had no time or patience

I thought she was someone who is hurt and seeking compassion, but she is just sad about her time that she wasted on dealing with inferior weaklings. That makes her sound like a social darwinist. But yes, you are right, many people are social darwinists or supremacists without ever realizing it. Opinions such as hers are not just "common"; they are the dominant meme. It's the standard that most humans live by.

I did not mean that many people including Filipinos or most Asians are social darwinists whatsoever. This philosophy is uniquely Western and very archaic and crude in its description of societies, we have to remember that this was a theory or hypothesis more than 100 year hence. People often mistake in labeling other cultures with their own made-up definitions, with how they understood or wanted that alien culture to be. There are many customs or words even, that have no synonym or explanation in the Western sense. It is not wise to use a passe Western thought which held no ground to begin with and apply it to foreign or alien cultures we have little or no comprehension of.

Except it's usually a bit more relaxed than SD proper, most people just have a certain set of criteria, if you meet them then you are considered "worthy to live", otherwise you're trash.

And those people "criticize" the Third Reich, when they are actually faithful to Nazi morals.

Forgive me but what is SD proper? & please, let us try to see things for what they are, not everyone who holds a conservative view follow or attest to the Nazi regime or philosophy. By any chance, are you an American?

 

[mimizu]

I believe the wife should handle all finances. I absolutely loath all household chores, I do not even know how to cook, with the exception of rice and I even depend on a rice cooker for that!

Wouldn't it be nice, controlling all of the money, and not doing anything.

 

[mimizu]

She receives my father's entire, entire salary and takes care of all household matters (my father is rarely involved with any of this, if he requires money, he has to ask her and she decides if there is any left to give him as an allowance from the expenditures of the household).

How wonderfully fair and just. So, in other words, you want a husband so that you can take all of his money and command him around?

 

[zeneida]

I believe the wife should handle all finances. I absolutely loath all household chores, I do not even know how to cook, with the exception of rice and I even depend on a rice cooker for that!

Wouldn't it be nice, controlling all of the money, and not doing anything.

You really hold a very low regard of women as well as home-making and raising children don't you? *sigh* Well, perhaps, it's your culture, you don't respect such professions at all and ridicule them because you hold it of little value.

 

[mimizu]

I didn't write anything about home-making and raising children, I wrote about your personal values. (that you expressed)

The money thing totally surprised me, I thought better of you. You seemed like an intelligent, thoughtful person. But apparently, you're an intelligent, thoughtful person with a penchant for money that you didn't earn. O_O And the view that "husband" equals "mule".

If it's not too hard, please explain what does someone gain by becoming your mule, and what would be your contribution to the family?

 

[zeneida]

She receives my father's entire, entire salary and takes care of all household matters (my father is rarely involved with any of this, if he requires money, he has to ask her and she decides if there is any left to give him as an allowance from the expenditures of the household).

How wonderfully fair and just. So, in other words, you want a husband so that you can take all of his money and command him around?

Huh? Don't you believe in the concept of marriage? Marriage is not about two separate individuals but of oneness. It is not his money, it is the family's money and expenses or don't you think the wife and kids should be involved in it? Marriage is not about being independent off each other or just one person depending on another, it is about co-dependence. The husband depends on the wife as much as the wife depends on him, this is said of the children as well, the children depend on the parents at first and then later on, it is the parents who depend on the children. That is why we have no home for the aged, the children care for their parents.

It is obvious that you think little of women, child-rearing and taking care of the household or marriage either. You hold of little value such a distinguished profession whereas you place a greater need for the non-household working environment.

It seems that we have differing opinions and let us leave it as that. You seem very eager to pronounce a person or a culture as evil because you understand none of it. I'm not surprised, many White supremacists such as yourself think their culture is better than others and forcefully try to instill their own personal fascist beliefs upon others. You have shed much light on who you are and what kind of a person you are. A person who likes to see evil on every corner and pass judgment on people all because of hate or your unwillingness to understand. It is quite clear that your agenda is to upstart trouble or unrest with all your talk of 'evil', 'bad', 'nazi', supremacist', etc. Take heed of your words regarding CHARITY, COMPASSION and KINDNESS, you lack their will and sincerity. This HATRED and MALICE of yours is quite disarming, hatred is the leading cause of all the problems in the world. Be wary of this hate that you carry inside you and be careful who you pronounce as evil, the action in itself is the epitome of the evil you callously dictate. Hitler said the same thing of the Jewry because he lacked understanding and much hatred and malice, be cautious that you do not fall into the same trap.

I bid you farewell, wisdom and understanding, I'm sorry but I don't think I will continue this futile discussion with you.

 

[mimizu]

lol. You're making yourself sound like a controlling person with your own words. "I believe the wife should handle all finances." That's your words. Since the wife would be you, this translates to: "I believe I should handle all finances." How... charitable of you. O_O And very modest also.

Don't you believe in the concept of marriage?

It depends what the concept is. If the "concept of marriage" for you means yourself having all of the power, then I don't like such a concept, sorry. (And it seems that this is what your "concept" is, based on your own words.)
I like to think about marriage as sharing and helping each other. Of course, for most people it's not that way. It's about trying to overpower your spouse, make them give up, and do your own bidding.

You seem very eager to pronounce a person or a culture as evil because you understand none of it.

I didn't pronounce any cultures evil here. Where did that come from?

all because of hate or your unwillingness to understand

What am I supposed to understand? Please explain, and I will try.

 

[HiddenHydey]

Can it be calming down time now please? I know I'm a newbie entering the fray and all but it's a bit heated don't you think. And everyone knows that in any arguement calling someone a nazi means that all rationality has gone out of the window.

Mimi I'm not sure where you're from but from what I can gather Zeneida's cultures cogs turn another way on certain matters, certainly to my own culture. She'll have another way of looking for the same thing, but you really are looking for the same thing. In life everyone is.

Zeneida, theres a whole lot of judgement and defensive feelings coming from both you and him but I don't think seriously that he is really telling you that you're evil. Really you are both just looking for a oneness but the way you described certain parts of what I assume to be a matriarchal society (I could dig out my books on anthropology and make a few more guesses on the exact nature) makes it seem very much like the women is controlling the man, whereas Mimi would describe a oneness as a more open thing.

Ooops, my Britishness is shining through now, trying to be a mediator, coming off as a tad condescending and looking a bit of an idiot. Oh well, you know what I mean though right? I'm a bit of a wuss about these sorts of things.

 

[mimizu]

I didn't call anyone a nazi... I was complaining about how people today generally agree that the Third Reich was evil, but their values aren't much different from the Nazis actually. Stiffle, suppress, crush, suffocate, destroy, dominate. I was referring to people in the western world/industrial nations, btw, people around myself.

I don't know how the Filipino's act in their own country, but we have many of them here, and they actually seem much milder.. less aggressive. I don't know why zeneida views this argument as a culture clash and why did she decide that I hate her culture. :/ What she wrote about the wife controlling the finances isn't a special Filipino thing. I am of eastern european background, "our" families work exactly the same way. I also saw a TV show once where a woman from Ireland was describing the Irish family structure, and she said exactly the same things.

Btw, I don't feel like I belong to any specific culture/nation/civilization this is why I put "our" in quotes. Because those people aren't any closer or friendlier to me just because they eat the same food and speak the same language as me. I'm too lonely to feel like I "belong" anywhere.

 

[HiddenHydey]

I didn't call anyone a nazi... I was complaining about how people today generally agree that the Third Reich was evil, but their values aren't much different from the Nazis actually. Stiffle, suppress, crush, suffocate, destroy, dominate. I was referring to people in the western world/industrial nations, btw, people around myself.

Sorry, I guess cheekiness doesn't come across too well over the internet but it wasn't a very serious remark, just a joke on that law of the internet (as length of arguement increases probability of a comparison to nazism approaches 1- or something like that). Sorry if it came off as rude, really didn't mean it too.

 

[mimizu]

Yeah, I know what you were referring to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law <-- this law is always true.

I also noticed now that zeneida thought I called her a nazi.

Forgive me but what is SD proper? & please, let us try to see things for what they are, not everyone who holds a conservative view follow or attest to the Nazi regime or philosophy. By any chance, are you an American?

She also wrote this:

I did not mean that many people including Filipinos or most Asians are social darwinists whatsoever. This philosophy is uniquely Western and very archaic and crude in its description of societies, we have to remember that this was a theory or hypothesis more than 100 year hence. People often mistake in labeling other cultures with their own made-up definitions, with how they understood or wanted that alien culture to be. There are many customs or words even, that have no synonym or explanation in the Western sense. It is not wise to use a passe Western thought which held no ground to begin with and apply it to foreign or alien cultures we have little or no comprehension of.

I never used "social darwinism" to describe the Filipino society... I was speaking about people in general, especially around me. I don't know how she got to think that I was referring to her country, when I never mentioned it in the first place. #_# (But now I understand why she got angry.)

Now we know that when I spoke about the Third Reich I wasn't referring to her, or the Philippines, I was actually speaking about the people around me, how they condemn the nazis while being similar to them in their approach to people who they deem as "weaklings" or "losers". Now this confusion is cleared up... I hope. -_-

"SD proper" means "Social Darwinism proper". The philosophy of Nazism draws a lot from Social Darwinism.
I find a lot of parallels between SD and the conduct of the plain average person towards people weaker than him/herself.

I also hope it's understandable that when I say "weak", I mean things like...
low social status, psychological vulnerability, poverty, loneliness, unattractive appearance, and so on
... rather than lack of muscular strength.

 

[Almond]

Hi everybody,
I would just like to say a few things. Firstly I don't even know how to use the bold thing here yet so any words you saw pasted in bold were changed to bold by the poster and not originally placed in bold by me. Secondly I never said the words "if you aren't fit to survive, then you should die". Thirdly that zeneida seems to be a wonderful person who is just paying the "price" of me having put mimizu on ignore which is something I had to do because his PMs were outrageously abusive.


I hope we can now return to the discussion at hand which was "Sexual Frustration".

 

[Colette]

Thirdly that zeneida seems to be a wonderful person who is just paying the "price" of me having put mimizu on ignore which is something I had to do because his PMs were outrageously abusive.

If you have a problem with someone on this forum or with someone PMing you than you should take it up with that person. Openly mentioning your problem with them in a thread message is both rude and passive agressive.