Struggling to approach women?

[TheSkaFish]

It's a mistake to think being a "thug" or a jerk means being on low pay or unemployed. Plenty of those guys do well in the corporate world. Psychopaths love to ladder climb. And since they have money and status they're more or less the complete package.

An awkward guy in a mid tier IT role can't compete with that.

Old post is old, but I just happened to see this today and it got me thinking.

Well, I guess I always think about this.

The "awkward guy in a mid tier IT role" is what I fear is my best case scenario in life.
And as you said, they can't compete.
It's easy to see why.
The awkward guy in a mid tier IT role, doesn't like himself, because he can't get good at something he would actually like, and therefore make him like himself, want to lean into being himself.

I'm afraid I'm doomed to be the awkward guy, because as long as I'm just a normal person with no cool ideas of my own, skills/achievements, or stories, then I'm never going to be fired up to be me.

Being that guy, would make me feel slightly better than I do now, but that's it.
I'd feel peace of mind that I'm not inferior. I wouldn't be humiliated.
And those things are extremely important to me, but that's all the further I would get.

And that's what I'm afraid I'm stuck as, because I worry that to get good at something, you have to be born with enough potential, and/or you have to start at a young enough age. I was never into sports, which is very age-centric. For me it's more creative things. But still, there's this fear that you just have to be born as the right kind of person, and I fear I'm not.

It's hard to achieve when you don't really like what you're doing.
You don't naturally enjoy it or thirst for the knowledge. You don't really believe in what you're doing.
You don't really want to level up at it for its own sake, and be more of that kind of person.
And it's hard to feel good about yourself if you don't achieve.
Feeling barred from doing anything that would make you feel good about being yourself, makes you feel like a prisoner in your own life.

I'm just going to be going through the motions of my life, because I'm forced to - much like I was at school.
I'm sure you can guess how well that worked out the first time.
No reason to think this time will be any different.

The bro on the other hand, the corporate world sociopath/psychopath, is fired up to be who he is.
Maybe he wishes he was his favorite pro athlete or artist, but he's not entirely bored/unhappy with himself as a corporate bro either, and therefore he can carry that vibe forward in interactions with others.

That's how you not be awkward - when you like who you are, and you can lean into it.

But I could never be that. I can never get fired up to be ordinary. I don't like it. It's boring and empty.
That's the thing, I never did, and I never fit in with those people either.
Even as kids, they seemed like "mini adults", already maneuvering for power when I wanted to just live and like things (yet at the same time I needed more power to have a more enjoyable life - the difference with me is, I see it as an ugly reality, while they actively relish in it). We didn't connect.

I used to think I didn't care, that I didn't need to be anything myself, that I could just be a fan of the things I liked and live through that and barely live in the real world at all.
I thought making it through school would be the long, slow, boring, unglamorous path, but that it would set me free. I thought that's what you do when you're not born good at anything, and yeah it takes a while but it works eventually. I thought once I made my own money I could make my own rules and the world would have to accept me then, because I thought I'd be equal to a bro.

I never really liked myself, but it didn't bother me then as much as it does now because back then I didn't think I had to either. I didn't understand why I had to.
I thought most people don't like themselves, their jobs, their lives.
Most people wish they were someone else.
Most people wish they could be pro athletes or entertainment stars.
As a kid I didn't want to be anything, I didn't think I could but I didn't care either. I just wanted to enjoy fandom universes.

But I know that that doesn't work now. You have to get someone interested in you, but I'm not sure how to do that when I feel forced by life, both by money and genetics, to be a boring person that even I am bored of myself.

You can't really get fired up to be you, if you feel stuck with yourself, like I do.

What am I going to tell someone on a date?
"Hi, I'm Ska.
I don't really like who I am because I can't do anything cool.
Because of that I don't get that interested or excited about anything anymore.
I wish I was someone else who could do something cooler with my life.
All I really like about myself, is being in a middle class job gives me peace of mind that I'm not biologically/genetically inferior.
How are you?"

That's not going to work. They're going to think I'm some kind of Nazi.
If you don't like yourself because you're not successful enough, and/or that you can't do something that you like, and would therefore make you like being you, I don't know.
It's hard to give off good enough vibes, and have enough conversation material, to get anyone to want to know you.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Then again I guess it's not necessarily true that the IT guy and corporate bro are competing for the same woman with the same personality.

The ones that want the bro, there's nothing you can do about that. They're just the way they are.
Often times they are almost as bad as the bro themselves, so living with them would be no picnic.
You can't change other people and a lot of the time, you wouldn't even want to.

You do still have to like yourself, and do something interesting with your life, to get out of "awkward"/"no personality" and give off good enough vibes to get someone into you, though.

 

[constant stranger]

There are a lot of self fulfilling prophecies in all of that, SkaFish. It's like you're creating a loop of perceptions and conclusions that are reinforcing themselves.

Although we're not personally acquainted, I sense that you may be able to exert more control over your life than what your posts indicate you believe.

 

[littlefish555]

Just want to chime in @TheSkaFish I noticed that you do seem to possess self awareness, which I would say is one of the most highly-desirable qualities in a partner. Don't sell yourself short. I think there are plentitudes of interesting attractive women who want nothing more than a decent human being who can take care of himself and knows how to communicate. Coming to the table with good music to share and a job is pretty cool. And if you like to cook... you're entering top percentile I'm telling you.

 

[okidoke]

You do still have to like yourself, and do something interesting with your life, to get out of "awkward"/"no personality" and give off good enough vibes to get someone into you, though.

if you put half as much time answering your PM's as you do writing such long comments, perhaps you could get a good discussion going that could open up a more in depth conversation about tackling your life lol - answer your damn PM's dude!

 

[TheSkaFish]

if you put half as much time answering your PM's as you do writing such long comments, perhaps you could get a good discussion going that could open up a more in depth conversation about tackling your life lol - answer your damn PM's dude!

Yes, this is a more than fair point.

I've really let my mail pile up not only here, but elsewhere as well.

I need to just answer my mail.

 

[okidoke]

Yes, this is a more than fair point.

I've really let my mail pile up not only here, but elsewhere as well.

I need to just answer my mail.

If I was nearby, I'd be calling in to visit with you and have a good hearty chat lol To be serious though, taking control of your mail is a thing that you should learn to control. Tick that off your "can do" list mate. It's the little things you gotta learn to control in life, at least before you tackle the bigger things.

 

[ardour]

Old post is old, but I just happened to see this today and it got me thinking.

Well, I guess I always think about this.

The "awkward guy in a mid tier IT role" is what I fear is my best case scenario in life.
And as you said, they can't compete.
It's easy to see why.
The awkward guy in a mid tier IT role, doesn't like himself, because he can't get good at something he would actually like, and therefore make him like himself, want to lean into being himself.

I'm afraid I'm doomed to be the awkward guy, because as long as I'm just a normal person with no cool ideas of my own, skills/achievements, or stories, then I'm never going to be fired up to be me.

Being that guy, would make me feel slightly better than I do now, but that's it.
I'd feel peace of mind that I'm not inferior. I wouldn't be humiliated.
And those things are extremely important to me, but that's all the further I would get.

And that's what I'm afraid I'm stuck as, because I worry that to get good at something, you have to be born with enough potential, and/or you have to start at a young enough age. I was never into sports, which is very age-centric. For me it's more creative things. But still, there's this fear that you just have to be born as the right kind of person, and I fear I'm not.

It's hard to achieve when you don't really like what you're doing.
You don't naturally enjoy it or thirst for the knowledge. You don't really believe in what you're doing.
You don't really want to level up at it for its own sake, and be more of that kind of person.
And it's hard to feel good about yourself if you don't achieve.
Feeling barred from doing anything that would make you feel good about being yourself, makes you feel like a prisoner in your own life.

I'm just going to be going through the motions of my life, because I'm forced to - much like I was at school.
I'm sure you can guess how well that worked out the first time.
No reason to think this time will be any different.

The bro on the other hand, the corporate world sociopath/psychopath, is fired up to be who he is.
Maybe he wishes he was his favorite pro athlete or artist, but he's not entirely bored/unhappy with himself as a corporate bro either, and therefore he can carry that vibe forward in interactions with others.

That's how you not be awkward - when you like who you are, and you can lean into it.

But I could never be that. I can never get fired up to be ordinary. I don't like it. It's boring and empty.
That's the thing, I never did, and I never fit in with those people either.
Even as kids, they seemed like "mini adults", already maneuvering for power when I wanted to just live and like things (yet at the same time I needed more power to have a more enjoyable life - the difference with me is, I see it as an ugly reality, while they actively relish in it). We didn't connect.

I used to think I didn't care, that I didn't need to be anything myself, that I could just be a fan of the things I liked and live through that and barely live in the real world at all.
I thought making it through school would be the long, slow, boring, unglamorous path, but that it would set me free. I thought that's what you do when you're not born good at anything, and yeah it takes a while but it works eventually. I thought once I made my own money I could make my own rules and the world would have to accept me then, because I thought I'd be equal to a bro.

I never really liked myself, but it didn't bother me then as much as it does now because back then I didn't think I had to either. I didn't understand why I had to.
I thought most people don't like themselves, their jobs, their lives.
Most people wish they were someone else.
Most people wish they could be pro athletes or entertainment stars.
As a kid I didn't want to be anything, I didn't think I could but I didn't care either. I just wanted to enjoy fandom universes.

But I know that that doesn't work now. You have to get someone interested in you, but I'm not sure how to do that when I feel forced by life, both by money and genetics, to be a boring person that even I am bored of myself.

You can't really get fired up to be you, if you feel stuck with yourself, like I do.

What am I going to tell someone on a date?
"Hi, I'm Ska.
I don't really like who I am because I can't do anything cool.
Because of that I don't get that interested or excited about anything anymore.
I wish I was someone else who could do something cooler with my life.
All I really like about myself, is being in a middle class job gives me peace of mind that I'm not biologically/genetically inferior.
How are you?"

That's not going to work. They're going to think I'm some kind of Nazi.
If you don't like yourself because you're not successful enough, and/or that you can't do something that you like, and would therefore make you like being you, I don't know.
It's hard to give off good enough vibes, and have enough conversation material, to get anyone to want to know you.

I agree with constant stranger in that if this is what you are telling yourself then it might be self-fulfilling.

The not-so socially acceptable argument here is that general motivation and the basic reproductive drive are bound together. This being particularly true of men, for whatever evolutionary reason.

Tell a young or youngish person that they will never have an SO, never know what it's like to be needed and desired, etc., and it will most likely kill their motivation. The prospect of being a romantic and genetic dead end kinda just does that. There are the exceptions of the undesirable loners throughout history (Nikola Tesla for eg.), but if we surveyed well paid successful professionals in society right now, how many do you think would be the kind of people who struggle romantically? Even though that's already a small minority, they would probably be underrepresented to non-existent here. Not to mention world leaders and techlord billionaires. I can't even think of one that is single. In theory being permanently single should be an advantage: All that energy able to be redirected elsewhere. Except it doesn't seem to be.

Foreveralone types are left in a catch 22 type situation of needing to be successful first in order to be confident enough and relationship-worthy. Be happy first in order to be happy. But how do you fake fulfillment?

For normal people, most of this sorts itself out via normal experiences in late adolescence that set them on the right path. If they're currently single they have a reasonable sense of certainty they won't be forever. They don't need to reconcile to that as a lifelong thing. For the minority who missed out on all that though, having to force motivation where there is very little naturally, with zero validating experiences, 'faking it until they make it' when past experience suggests they won't 'make it' is a tough ask, there's no denying it. It's almost like brainwashing yourself.

But then staying in your rut will just ensure nothing will change. To be honest I think you've done enough rumination. I understand but this is not helping. You're quite a bit younger than some of us here and I really think you need to start treating the time you have as a precious resource.