There is no such thing as single women

[Barely Real]

Yeah, in a thread like this, it's very hard to tell sarcasm/kidding around.  Next time, maybe try an emoji with it. lol 

And yes, there is a very negative attitude toward dating in general here.  Not just from the men, but they are definitely more outspoken about it. 

Easier to blame the world than yourself, I suppose.  Sucks though, because some of the guys here are actually pretty decent, if they'd get out of their own heads.

I suppose it's understandable that you'll find many people here who are frustrated about dating seeing as how this is a forum for loneliness.

Seems like incels in general, when criticised, feel like their feelings are being invalidated. I need to make it clear that I know the pain of being involuntarily alone, and I know it can be very disheartening to try to navigate in the realm of modern dating for various reasons. I for instance am struggling with mental illness which complicates things a whole lot. But introverted, lower-than-average-looking guys are not the only ones who struggle. Many women do too, even those who are widely considered to be attractive, albeit likely for different reasons.

It needs to be made clear that the main problem with the incel community is not the fact that they feel bad about being involuntarily alone, but the fact that they deflect responsibility, are entitled, portray grim worldviews and are often grossly bigoted to boot. Plus, many of them seem to only be after one thing: *** with girls way out of their league.

 

[TheRealCallie]

It needs to be made clear that the main problem with the incel community is not the fact that they feel bad about being involuntarily alone, but the fact that they deflect responsibility, are entitled, portray grim worldviews and are often grossly bigoted to boot. Plus, many of them seem to only be after one thing: *** with girls way out of their league.

I agree and I often say similar to exactly that, which is why I have a reputation of being a cold hearted ***** troll here.  Lol

 

[MissBehave]

“Plus, many of them seem to only be after one thing: *** with girls way out of their league.“

I don’t think so. Some ofc, but most of them wants to be loved back by someone they can love. 
Like we all do.

 

[ITellYouHhwut]

Or maybe women just don't like people who send out "I hate women/women are evil" vibes.

Also, not joking...

See, there you go. It's all just me being a woman-hating prick. No culpability from women, or even a consideration that they may play a role. Women are free of all rresponsibility, and any criticism of women is just "woman-hating".

Sseriously, that is such a simplistic view of mine and other's situation(s) that if you honestly believe it really works that way, then you're stupid. Straight up. Do you really believe I just hate women by default, and came born that way? Do you really think I just started off with this bitterness and resentment towards them? Do you really think women are just free of all wrongdoing? 

Let me tell you something. One thing Ive learned to be true is that this notion that men are the dehumanizing ones is completely ***-backwards. It is entirely women who are the ones who dehumanize. Men love women for who/what they are. All we want is you. We dont come looking for your resources, money, "stability", "ability to provide", or anything like that. We just want you and your love. It is women who view men as objects. and consider our humanity as secondary to the other stipulations involved in choosing us. Women have a way of degrading and dehumanizing men in ways men cannot parallel. They do so in the most passive-aggressive of ways. (I have been run through this carousel of pain my entire life). They are the masters of signals, body-language, and manipulation. They know how to use the people, resources, and situations at their disposal to communicate to a man that they think he's a worthless waste of space.They can drag a man's soul through the mud, and they can get by with it because it's not this obvious, violent act everyone can see. If a woman wants you to feel like ****, she knows exactly how to dig her hooks into you. Then when men develop resentment towards women, all we hear is "Stop degrading women you sexist loser." Blag blah blah....."That's why no woman wants you!" Blah blah blah.....

You have not once, in all your comments on my threads, tried to meet me half way, or understand where I'm coming from. You just assert that I'm some woman-hating jerk. You basically confirm what I say with your every post, because you show that women only think about themselves and never consider their role. 

 

[harper]

To be fair, the "halfway" point between your position and Reality
would have to make women partially responsible for:

1. Your choice of whom you approach
and
2. Not being attracted to you.

The first is your decision to make, and the second isn't a matter of choice.

You can dismiss out of hand all the grooming advice you get from the 'coaches'
but you can't make a case to support your faulty methods. So instead of cursing
the injustice of it all, fix your approach.

 

[Xpendable]

3. The biological determinism guiding gene selection.

Now, seriously. You guys need to stop being such cowards. For **** sake, can you actually dare to question the world you live in? Even for a minute?
"Your vibes are negative", ofc there's negativity involved if you keep denying the experience of millions of people. It's not only simplistic but also cruel to take a big part of the population and put them on a box of your liking so the plan keeps going well. Vibes are ********, simply because if that were true the world would be ruled by good people. Even people here faced an abusive partner in their life. Are we supposed to make an exception to that? Was their "vibe detector" broken when they entered the relationship? And don't believe for a second they were deceiving. Aren't vibes supposed to be implicit? So you can deduce a man hates women because he has been unjustifiably judged since forever but you can't feel when a man is going to beat you up or your children because he was "oh, so deceiving"?

You are liars, sad, sad, liars. You hold up to this Just World fallacy and talk about being good can fix all problems, yet you lack basic empathy solely because the horrible reality you like to defend gets a little scrutiny. YOU are the bad people I fear, not because you are murders or criminals, but because you enable them and reward the wicked ones finding whatever excuse fitting your view. You are the jerks because you see this world and actually think everything goes into place, that everything goes according to plan. You see people deprived of love and in your horrible mind you rationalize that it can't be that the environment is bad, that society is bad, you so desperately try to shift the blame and maintain the status quo to keep the circus running. You are disgusting and the worse part is that you feel morally superior to the people you are kicking in the ground. There's nothing good or remotely nice about you people. Why don't you just go away?

 

[ardour]

I can agree with some of that (the hypocrisy of women judging shy men for their attitudes while having a history of being drawn to dominant, sometimes abusive partners). Being genuine, kind and decent is neither here most of the time, unfortunately, despite claims that it's "bare minimum requirement" deserving or no particular merit. But you guys might want to edit those and dial it back a bit before dad gets home.

 

[TheRealCallie]

(the hypocrisy of judging shy men while having a history of being drawn to dominant, sometimes abusive partners).

If that is directed at me, you might want to check yourself because you clearly don't know/remember my "history" as much as you think you do. 

If it's not directed at me....just disregard that.

 

[ardour]

It's not directed at you.

 

[Xpendable]

Talkin' about being the center of the universe.

 

[ITellYouHhwut]

My biggest problem is realizing that I'm inferior, and that nothing can be done about that.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I can agree with some of that (the hypocrisy of women judging shy men for their attitudes while having a history of being drawn to dominant, sometimes abusive partners).

I guess we're just performing our gender role poorly. So in their eyes, it's not hypocrisy, we're the ones at fault.
That's something I worry about, that I'm bad at the thing I'm supposed to be, so where does that leave me. Where can I go from there. I don't know.

Being genuine, kind and decent is neither here most of the time, unfortunately, despite claims that it's "bare minimum requirement" deserving or no particular merit.

This. It always makes my head spin when they say "bUt NiCe Is ThE bArE mInImUm lololollll111" because they keep choosing guys who...wait for it...either can't be arsed, or totally fail, to meet said minimum. Riddle me that ****. It's kind of funny that we get accused of always having a rationalization for our arguments, cause they do too.

I think, once and for all, we can say that niceness and sweetness don't really have anything to do with a person's attractiveness. Especially when we're talking about people in their 20s, and maybe 30s.

I just feel like if we can't change the game, we could at least drop all the pretenses and be honest. Drop all the "good guy"/"good girl" egos. If you just want someone hot, just say it and own it and then the rest of us can know to either try to find some way to compete or just stay the hell away.

But you guys might want to edit those and dial it back a bit before dad gets home.

LOL! True that.

---

My biggest problem is realizing that I'm inferior, and that nothing can be done about that.

I understand the feeling. That's what I'm afraid of too.

 

[harper]

3. The biological determinism guiding gene selection.

Now, seriously. You guys need to stop being such cowards. For **** sake, can you actually dare to question the world you live in? Even for a minute?

(snipped for readability)

Here's what you're missing, Einstein. 

Guys who post these threads invariably say, 
"I can't find a pedigreed blonde with a tight butt who will give me the time of day. 
Women are all ******* and hoes who only go for the alpha types who have the
guts to approach them."

Which, I admit, is overly simplified... sort of a 'Cliff Notes' version of Every One of
These Threads, Ever Posted.


I don't think your expectations line up with Reality, but you seem to have some kind
of emotional investment in it.  Maybe you should post a thread of your own and see
what sort of comments it elicits.

Pro-Tip:  Don't try to be a smartass because you're not very good at it.

 

[Xpendable]

Dude, show me those threads. Seriously. Where did I ever say that? or anyone here?
How not be a smartass when you are so below the bar? Assuming you are not being a huge liar.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I can agree with some of that (the hypocrisy of women judging shy men for their attitudes while having a history of being drawn to dominant, sometimes abusive partners).

I guess we're just performing our gender role poorly.  So in their eyes, it's not hypocrisy, we're the ones at fault.  
That's something I worry about, that I'm bad at the thing I'm supposed to be, so where does that leave me.  Where can I go from there.  I don't know.  

See that's not what I mean at all.  You are all so worried about what society thinks and what you think society wants you to be that you aren't being yourself.  You are so wrapped up in the image the negativity put on you that, quite honestly, I have to wonder if any of you who you really are. 
That is what I have been trying to point out I've and over again.  **** society.  Find out who you are and own it.  Be you. Be the you that you want to be, not the you that you think society is forcing on you.  

It has nothing to do with gender roles and everything to do with human, individual roles and who you choose to be.  And yes, it is a choice. 

Let me ask you a question and please answer honestly....question is for Ska.

Which would you rather have?  
Someone who  is angry at the world, hates men, is negative all the time, blames everyone but herself for every bad thing that happens. 
Or....
Someone who is confident, doesn't let society tell her what to do, looks for and tries to fix her faults,  owns up to her mistakes, is content with her life and goes after what she wants. 

Now which would you choose if they both looked exactly the way you picture your dream girl?
Which would you choose if the negative person looked a little better?

 

[harper]

Dude, show me those threads. Seriously. Where did I ever say that? or anyone here?
How not be a smartass when you are so below the bar? Assuming you are not being a huge liar.

Read it again.  I didn't say that YOU posted the incel threads I described.

You can find them in the "Social Problems" section, or the "Low Self-Esteem"
threads, and likely elsewhere.  They are plentiful, and they play out as your
handy 'Cliff Notes' version describes.

The last paragraph of your previous response is all over the place, conflating individual experience
with a narrative about incels, collectively.   What we're talking about in Reality is one man having a
hard time getting next to the women he finds attractive. 

Since self-improvement is apparently too contentious to broach, the obvious next step would be
to expand the dating pool to include women one doesn't find physically attractive.  

But... no.  The incel mind says it's better to castigate ALL women for being shallow ******* and
to curse the culture that forces men to take an active role in mate selection. 

Now you're caught up with the rest of us.  No lies, no cowardice.

 

[ITellYouHhwut]

3. The biological determinism guiding gene selection.

Now, seriously. You guys need to stop being such cowards. For **** sake, can you actually dare to question the world you live in? Even for a minute?

(snipped for readability)

Here's what you're missing, Einstein. 

Guys who post these threads invariably say, 
"I can't find a pedigreed blonde with a tight butt who will give me the time of day. 
Women are all ******* and hoes who only go for the alpha types who have the
guts to approach them."

Which, I admit, is overly simplified... sort of a 'Cliff Notes' version of Every One of
These Threads, Ever Posted.


I don't think your expectations line up with Reality, but you seem to have some kind
of emotional investment in it.  Maybe you should post a thread of your own and see
what sort of comments it elicits.

Pro-Tip:  Don't try to be a smartass because you're not very good at it.

Dude, show me those threads. Seriously. Where did I ever say that? or anyone here?
How not be a smartass when you are so below the bar? Assuming you are not being a huge liar.

Read it again.  I didn't say that YOU posted the incel threads I described.

You can find them in the "Social Problems" section, or the "Low Self-Esteem"
threads, and likely elsewhere.  They are plentiful, and they play out as your
handy 'Cliff Notes' version describes.

The last paragraph of your previous response is all over the place, conflating individual experience
with a narrative about incels, collectively.   What we're talking about in Reality is one man having a
hard time getting next to the women he finds attractive. 

Since self-improvement is apparently too contentious to broach, the obvious next step would be
to expand the dating pool to include women one doesn't find physically attractive.  

But... no.  The incel mind says it's better to castigate ALL women for being shallow ******* and
to curse the culture that forces men to take an active role in mate selection. 

Now you're caught up with the rest of us.  No lies, no cowardice.

Will you EVER make a post attempting to honestly understand me, or represent me accurately? I've NEVER put any kind of absolute blame on all women, and thats not what I think. I'm merely saying that women play a role in the suffering of men like myself, and they largely decline to acknowledge their responsibility for many of the issues men face in today's world. Men cannot discuss our issues because all roads will just lead to us being "woman-hating, entitled, incels", and women will be shielded from criticism. Is there a kernel of truth to your side? Have I been guilty of defeatism, bitterness directed towards women, and other things you mentioned? Sure. Sometimes. But certainly not all the time, or even most of the time, and it certainly did not start off that way. To think in this simplistic way that you do is just the height of ignorance and biased thinking. You think I just woke up one day hating women for no good reason and that my bitterness begat my rejection from women. You've got no clue what you're talking about.

 

[harper]

Itellyouwhut said:

Will you EVER make a post attempting to honestly understand me, or represent me accurately? I've NEVER put any kind of absolute blame on all women, and thats not what I think. I'm merely saying that women play a role in the suffering of men like myself, and they largely decline to acknowledge their responsibility for many of the issues men face in today's world. Men cannot discuss our issues because all roads will just lead to us being "woman-hating, entitled, incels", and women will be shielded from criticism. Is there a kernel of truth to your side? Have I been guilty of defeatism, bitterness directed towards women, and other things you mentioned? Sure. Sometimes. But certainly not all the time, or even most of the time, and it certainly did not start off that way. To think in this simplistic way that you do is just the height of ignorance and biased thinking. You think I just woke up one day hating women for no good reason and that my bitterness begat my rejection from women. You've got no clue what you're talking about.

-----
and I reply:

The bitterness, etc is just a symptom.  The problem is the fact that you apparently refuse to change your shallow criteria to include women that aren't physically 'hot' enough.  If the hotties aren't interested in you, they bear no blame for that.  You aren't entitled to their company.  It's up to you to go find some that are interested in you.  It's like that for all of us. 

It's YOU who have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[ardour]

See that's not what I mean at all.  You are all so worried about what society thinks and what you think society wants you to be that you aren't being yourself.  You are so wrapped up in the image the negativity put on you that, quite honestly, I have to wonder if any of you who you really are. 
That is what I have been trying to point out I've and over again.  **** society.  Find out who you are and own it.  Be you. Be the you that you want to be, not the you that you think society is forcing on you.  

It has nothing to do with gender roles and everything to do with human, individual roles and who you choose to be.  And yes, it is a choice. 

Let me ask you a question and please answer honestly....question is for Ska.

Which would you rather have?  
Someone who  is angry at the world, hates men, is negative all the time, blames everyone but herself for every bad thing that happens. 
Or....
Someone who is confident, doesn't let society tell her what to do, looks for and tries to fix her faults,  owns up to her mistakes, is content with her life and goes after what she wants. 

Now which would you choose if they both looked exactly the way you picture your dream girl?
Which would you choose if the negative person looked a little better?

This is more about how human beings interact and what they want from one another. We can escape societal expectations easily enough but we can't force anyone to want to be around us while we do it.

Negative people get into relationships. A man who complains isn't unattractive because he's being negative but because he's showing weakness, not manning up, being stoic and dealing with his problems like women want and expect from a partner (not an unreasonable expectation but also a very 'gendered' one).

I know several middle-aged male coworkers who never dated. They're not alone because they're bitter incels who hate women and have no interests, they're single because they're awkward and lacking in the masculinity area. You could say their firmware is faulty. It's unfortunate. At least it deserves some sympathy.

 

[ardour]

The bitterness, etc is just a symptom. The problem is the fact that you apparently refuse to change your shallow criteria to include women that aren't physically 'hot' enough. If the hotties aren't interested in you, they bear no blame for that. You aren't entitled to their company.

You keeping attributing attitudes to others without much evidence, and in a very trollish way. That particular ad hom ('you only want hawt women') is pretty tired. Xpendable at least has said several times on the forum that he doesn't prioritize appearance.

I'm not sure what you're motive is but I'm certain you wouldn't like to be spoken to like this in real life, or be convinced of anything that way.