why, why do "nice guys" do this?

[Triple Bogey]

as a single guy, I don't find having female friends very interesting. It's nice but obviously not as good as a girlfriend.
(internet female friends are very nice btw)

 

[Peaches]

ok, my imaginary boyfriend will come visit next week

 

[ShybutHi]

ok, my imaginary boyfriend will come visit next week

Nice Peaches, have a good time.

I can't even get an imaginary girlfriend.

 

[jaguarundi]

^Hope he is a devastatingly gorgeous, sweet and perfect-for-you imaginary boyfriend. You deserve no less

 

[Peaches]

oh yes, he is a lawyer for human rights firm who travels a lot for work in war zones and such, very compassionate and kind. In his spare time he plays the piano, and he looks a bit like Christopher Walken. He adores me to bits, always sending presents, and always calls, even from Afghanistan.

---

ok, my imaginary boyfriend will come visit next week

Nice Peaches, have a good time.

I can't even get an imaginary girlfriend.

Sure you can! Just make up one

 

[TheSkaFish]

The climax arrived when *he* invited some common friends at *my* place for dinner, at that point I just said that we needed to take some distance from each other, then he started writing long letters about his life, and kept commenting on each single post - I cancelled him from my Facebook friends, and he started following me around at parties, like a shadow, at that point I had to be firm and stop talking to him altogether, but that was a pity because we had a lot in common and I really enjoyed his conversation and I miss it to this day.

Now I feel like this is happening again: another really smart, interesting guy met through common friends who had a spot of bad luck recently so we were chatting for a few times on Facebook about personal things, and yesterday we met in person for the first time and it was really nice, but after the meeting I received 4 long messages including pictures of himself, and today the count is up to 7, and I feel that there is some mistake and he is thinking there is a romantic interest and a) if I had to decide now I would say no, this guy is an artist, very interesting spirit, but my feeling is that he doesn't have his **** together b) after knowing a person, I can come to like them even if they are not my type physically (and this is vastly the case with this guy) because of their personality, but I can't have a romantic interest if i don't know a person and this behavior is bringing me a lot of anxiety.

Peaches - I'm sorry if you feel like I'm putting you on the spot here, but help me figure this out:

A guy can be smart and interesting and that can be enough to make up for average or below-average looks. You can also enjoy conversation with him. But that is still not enough. What is a person like that missing?

Is this guy failing with you because he doesn't have his **** together, as you say? Or is it because he is sending you too many long messages with pictures and you feel it is too much too soon? Or something else? It seems like there is some hierarchy of traits going on here. Looks are not as important as smarts, personality, and conversation skills, which themselves are not as important as having the basics covered and taking a measured pace in getting to know you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I'm reading here. I'm not trying to figure YOU out, just saying, this is the way it seems to go for everyone.

I ask you because I find myself in this position a lot and it's beyond frustrating. From a guy's perspective - just when you think you have covered all your bases, you come to find you've covered nothing at all.

 

[murmi97]

Peaches - I'm sorry if you feel like I'm putting you on the spot here, but help me figure this out:

A guy can be smart and interesting and that can be enough to make up for average or below-average looks. You can also enjoy conversation with him. But that is still not enough. What is a person like that missing?

Her trust, from the looks of it. She's just not wanting be stuck with a nut. Either friend-wise or as a lover.

 

[Disaffected]

Tell them the truth, men are not mind readers.

 

[Solivagant]

I often find honesty is the best policy... lies tend to backfire. I think that being straightforward is the best thing, even if it might hurt him , he will get over it faster this way.

^ Agree.

 

[ShybutHi]

Peaches - I'm sorry if you feel like I'm putting you on the spot here, but help me figure this out:

A guy can be smart and interesting and that can be enough to make up for average or below-average looks. You can also enjoy conversation with him. But that is still not enough. What is a person like that missing?

Her trust, from the looks of it. She's just not wanting be stuck with a nut. Either friend-wise or as a lover.

Yes seems like she doesn't trust him because of his behavior which is fair enough. You know, a psychopath can be smart, interesting and good looking... But you wouldn't want to be in a relationship with one. lol

 

[Peaches]

f I had to decide now I would say no, this guy is an artist, very interesting spirit, but my feeling is that he doesn't have his **** together b) after knowing a person, I can come to like them even if they are not my type physically (and this is vastly the case with this guy) because of their personality, but I can't have a romantic interest if i don't know a person and this behavior is bringing me a lot of anxiety.

Peaches - I'm sorry if you feel like I'm putting you on the spot here, but help me figure this out:

A guy can be smart and interesting and that can be enough to make up for average or below-average looks. You can also enjoy conversation with him. But that is still not enough. What is a person like that missing?

Is this guy failing with you because he doesn't have his **** together, as you say? Or is it because he is sending you too many long messages with pictures and you feel it is too much too soon? Or something else? It seems like there is some hierarchy of traits going on here. Looks are not as important as smarts, personality, and conversation skills, which themselves are not as important as having the basics covered and taking a measured pace in getting to know you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I'm reading here. I'm not trying to figure YOU out, just saying, this is the way it seems to go for everyone.

I ask you because I find myself in this position a lot and it's beyond frustrating. From a guy's perspective - just when you think you have covered all your bases, you come to find you've covered nothing at all.

ehm, I am sure the "not having his **** together" varies vastly from woman to woman, I know one who doesn't consider anyone who is not 10 years older with a steady job for 15 years, large income and respectable hobbies like golf etc (daddy issues, anyone?)

I am much more democratic and in this case am talking about things like:

being incapable to holding a job and planning every few months to move country, being scammed regularly by con men that everyone else recognizes and then spending years (not sure about the years) afterwards with bitterness and depression, clearly overly dependent and (the main red flag) possibly emotionally unstable, quite overweight and not interested in healthy living (which for me is kind of vital because of my health), seems naive in relationships (he is 39) as well as quite insecure and doesn't give the feeling that he would be a solid companion with independent opinions and not instead someone who collapses at the first difficulty and relies on you for everything.
Also I find him a tad on the overly serious side, bordering to heavy.

I just said "doesn't seem to have his **** together" to avoid making a list of criticism

I am not saying this poor chap is all the above, otherwise even a friendship would be difficult to sustain, but I can sense some of these things in the air, and I still have to discover to what degree he has them (which ones).

Some things you don't mind in a friend (who doesn't have a friend with terrible taste in men/women or a bit of a drama queen?) but are a no-no in a relationship, and what we are taking about here are not just appearance, smarts and education, that after all are also superficial, or common themes to bond on, but about character, moral strength, maturity, courage, kindness, (this guy seemed kind, but you also need some click and attraction, yes?) emotional stability (ESPECIALLY that), capacity for independent thought, curiosity and interest into self improvement, and - now I can't think of anything else.

it is so clear that my only company in the future will be cats, with these standards

Anyway, I am sure this list has nothing to do with you, Skafish

and I am sure that for a lot of guys *I* don't have my **** together, it's all completely relative, also some people thrive on clingy (not me).

Why do you say that you find yourself in this position a lot? People tell you you don't have your **** together? As I said, for many girls that has usually to do with having a job/wanting to settle down etc, you are still young to have ALL your **** together

 

[Revengineer]

Sounds like a classic case of "desperate guy interprets friendliness as romantic interest." Sadly it doesn't take very much for that light to go off in our head, and once it does it's usually a one way trip to Awkward City.

You just got to be honest and tell him what you REALLY feel. Not really a fan of the "fake boyfriend" thing. It'll be fairly obvious when there's no name or any pictures on him on Facebook...

 

[ardour]

Peaches - I'm sorry if you feel like I'm putting you on the spot here, but help me figure this out:

A guy can be smart and interesting and that can be enough to make up for average or below-average looks. You can also enjoy conversation with him. But that is still not enough. What is a person like that missing?

Is this guy failing with you because he doesn't have his **** together, as you say? Or is it because he is sending you too many long messages with pictures and you feel it is too much too soon? Or something else? It seems like there is some hierarchy of traits going on here. Looks are not as important as smarts, personality, and conversation skills, which themselves are not as important as having the basics covered and taking a measured pace in getting to know you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I'm reading here. I'm not trying to figure YOU out, just saying, this is the way it seems to go for everyone.

I ask you because I find myself in this position a lot and it's beyond frustrating. From a guy's perspective - just when you think you have covered all your bases, you come to find you've covered nothing at all.

Just going to have suck up to Peaches here.... she doesn't need to justify why she won't give him a chance. Are you prepared to do the same when you'd rather not? I doubt it (maybe you were just looking for further explanation to help with women.) From the sounds of it they have some fairly serious failings, the kind that would be problem for most, so it's not as though "have their **** together" is being overly picky.

 

[Batman55]

Just curious, why do you suspect this guy doesn't have his stuff together? (NM, I see this one was already answered.)

---

There probably isn't too much to be concerned about. They never had any long-term relationships before I'm guessing. All you can do is politely tell this latest 'nice guy' you aren't interested and he'll walk away with his tail between his legs and that will be it.

Yeah, I mean if it were me, this guy is a dud. I would instead look for a guy who has a good job and a big brain, preferable if they can command a room and have a strong personality. Big hands are a plus.

---

A guy can be smart and interesting and that can be enough to make up for average or below-average looks. You can also enjoy conversation with him. But that is still not enough. What is a person like that missing?

Don't even bother thinking about this. I've already had my say on it. It used to be this was a one-sided issue with men rightfully being called out, but sometimes it goes the other way.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Are you prepared to do the same when you'd rather not? I doubt it (maybe you were just looking for further explanation to help with women.)

Yea, I was just looking for further explanation to help my understanding of the attraction process.

---

Why do you say that you find yourself in this position a lot? People tell you you don't have your **** together? As I said, for many girls that has usually to do with having a job/wanting to settle down etc, you are still young to have ALL your **** together

Well, to be perfectly honest with you, I don't have it together. I'm still looking for a job, and am not very far along at anything really. I have dreams but I'm not really good at a sport or an artistic endeavor or know a lot about any one thing, so maybe that's my problem as well - I'm not engaging life enough, so maybe women find me boring. I often feel as if I'm not doing enough with my life.

 

[murmi97]

Just going to have suck up to Peaches here.... she doesn't need to justify why she won't give him a chance. Are you prepared to do the same when you'd rather not? I doubt it (maybe you were just looking for further explanation to help with women.) From the sounds of it they have some fairly serious failings, the kind that would be problem for most, so it's not as though "have their **** together" is being overly picky.

Also lack of feeling might be yet another reason. It can't just be about qualifications, for anyone(atleast happiness-wise).

 

[Zett]

being incapable to holding a job and planning every few months to move country, being scammed regularly by con men that everyone else recognizes and then spending years (not sure about the years) afterwards with bitterness and depression, clearly overly dependent and (the main red flag) possibly emotionally unstable, quite overweight and not interested in healthy living (which for me is kind of vital because of my health), seems naive in relationships (he is 39) as well as quite insecure and doesn't give the feeling that he would be a solid companion with independent opinions and not instead someone who collapses at the first difficulty and relies on you for everything.
Also I find him a tad on the overly serious side, bordering to heavy.

I just said "doesn't seem to have his **** together" to avoid making a list of criticism

What you wrote here is pretty interesting. I guess when the symptoms add up they give you a strong impression of deeper problems and it's hard to shake off the feeling there's a lot more to it than the ones they're just telling you about.

I don't think your list of standards is completely unreasonable either, emotional instability is symptomatic of deeper problems, I also consider this a huge deal. You also mention 'capacity for independent thought, curiosity and interest into self improvement'. I find the latter pretty rare. Out of my limited social experience it seems people are fairly quick to settle to the point where they stay with jobs that are ultimately dead ends and redefine what makes them happy to suit their needs. In this respect they're emotionally stable but in a situation which I think is beneath them. I have an old high school friend who fits this criteria, who is capable of so much more the words 'wasted potential' come to mind when I see him. But who am I to argue with his happiness. I think when people get comfortable, self improvement is the least of their plans and it's more about maintenance. I fell into this trap myself and it's something I'll keep in mind for the rest of my life. To never get too comfortable because complacency leads to stagnation.

I believe the root of clingy behavior is a lack of self investment. If a person values themselves more they invest in more activities that enrich their own life without the need of others. Their happiness is dependent on their own progress and they no longer feel the need to be invested in someone else.

I say this because I've been in that desperate boat before and I know that when I used to be this way it was from deep rooted problems like this. Wanting validation and emotional support from others all stems from a self-esteem issue. A person who fills these holes is less likely to need anyone else. But not all people fill it with the same kind. Some people use their faith in 'God', their support from a network of close friends/family and others find strength in believing in themselves. Either way a person who is not secure inside is likely to seek it from someone or something else.

 

[ardour]

I believe the root of clingy behavior is a lack of self investment. If a person values themselves more they invest in more activities that enrich their own life without the need of others. Their happiness is dependent on their own progress and they no longer feel the need to be invested in someone else.

I say this because I've been in that desperate boat before and I know that when I used to be this way it was from deep rooted problems like this. Wanting validation and emotional support from others all stems from a self-esteem issue. A person who fills these holes is less likely to need anyone else. But not all people fill it with the same kind. Some people use their faith in 'God', their support from a network of close friends/family and others find strength in believing in themselves. Either way a person who is not secure inside is likely to seek it from someone or something else.

Very few people are secure enough that they never seek validation from others. Desiring emotional support is normal.

Maybe you would make the distinction between wanting and needing. Still, you've pretty much defined emotional attachments to others as a sign of inadequacy.

 

[AnotherLonelyGuy]

...
How do I get out of this like a lady?

By telling him you don't wish to continue seeing each other. It might sound a bit blunt, but it doesn't leave any room for interpretation.

He's creepy. Even worse than me...

 

[TheSkaFish]

Why do you say that you find yourself in this position a lot?

Also I find myself in the position that these guys you meet are in. I'll meet these girls and we'll have things in common and are able to get along and talk for a while and they will act like they enjoy talking to me. They act like they enjoy having me in their lives. But I'm never able to create a real relationship, I'm never able to build anything more than that - just talking.