Men - do you feel yourself becoming an 'incel'?

Unsigned said:

You DID NOT get your promised slice of the American Dream.

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You know, I've been thinking about this... in a way you did get your slice of the American Dream, not the one that is advertised to innocent fools, but the only American Dream that there really is, which is making pools of money and being able to buy anything (or almost anything) that money can buy. That's what America really is about, after all: making money. Trump is like the embodiment of this. He is the American man par excellence. Everybody is just so concerned with making money and feeding their souls into the cogwheels of the system there's barely any time for anything else. This is why I say that a fairer and more egalitarian society is not just the solution to the people's economic grievances, but to a whole plethora of problems.

Which leads us to the problem of the conservative-reactionary utopia of establishing some kind of fascistoid, possibly militaresque dictatorship and enforcing traditional morals and behaviour onto the people. That just doesn't work. I know it doesn't because we've had this in the 80s and it didn't work, it just generated resented people and once the regime was weakened, in this case due to the inevitable global economic crisis that sooner or later strikes a highly globalized world, the resented people came out to the streets and demanded the end of the regime. In the end, the regime really ended. And how is this utopia even supposed to come about, in the first place? A bunch of sexually frustrated men will take up arms, do a coup and force all the women to be married and stay at home, lose their voting rights etc.? That's not how history works. The cogwheels of history only move foward, they might seem to be moving backwards at some points in time, but the fact is that they only move foward.

When thinking about social problems and their solutions, we should take all of this into consideration. Otherwise it's just LARPing.

Mr. Preuss said:

You know, I've been thinking about this... in a way you did get your slice of the American Dream, not the one that is advertised to innocent fools, but the only American Dream that there really is, which is making pools of money and being able to buy anything (or almost anything) that money can buy.

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This is a good point.
Just about all of my "mongering" friends are very happy with their lives.
They have no interest in a steady girlfriend and being monogamous.
Some have been engaged, others divorced, some are still married but no longer have sex with their wives due to menopause & what not.
And then there is me.
The difference, I think, is that I am older than most of them, and I was raised by older parents from the Depression/WW2 era, and they raised me with the old fashioned American dream, get married, buy a house, have kids, BBQ on 4th of July mindset.
So I absolutely feel I missed out.
But yeah, the younger guys I hang out with are all in for what you described above.
Even my non-monger friends seem to think what I do is "great".
Grass is greener I suppose.

And yeah, I know that lot's of people live paycheck to paycheck, have health issues, going through bad divorces, kids on drugs, themselves on drugs, etc...
So I really have much less to complain about.
For me it's just the depression/drinking/loneliness, but I have both financial & physical health, so I really should complain less.

Mr. Preuss said:

The cogwheels of history only move foward, they might seem to be moving backwards at some points in time, but the fact is that they only move foward.

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Yes I agree. It moves forward and only changes when disaster strikes.
- Fall of Rome
- Black Death
- Little Ice Age
Stuff like that.
The next disaster, what ever it is, will have dire consequences. Much, much worse than the above, IMO.

There is no such thing as an Incel. If you are a male and you have $50 in your bank account. I promise you that you will find a female who will have sex with you for that money. If you are a female I promise you that if you offer yourself to enough men you will find someone who will take a couple of shots and get in there.

I am not an incel, I choose to not want kids and do the most surefire thing to not have kids. I just have the added bonus of also being a creepy loser so females leave me alone in general.

MysteriousTelephone said:

Does anyone else worry they're becoming an incel?

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I used to. There have been phases in my life where I had no scope of getting a partner.

(TLDR):
I used to like a girl in school but she hated the fact that I liked her. She used to be disgusted by my presence.

Years passed. I sometimes wondered, she must have ended up with some great guy, for the pretty woman she was. My heart pounded when I learned that she's now married.
Some months later, I saw her with a guy when I was visiting a clinic. Well built, has generational wealth. But I knew that guy.

I returned home. Locked myself in my room. Put my bag where it belongs. Sat on my chair. And then I let go of what I had been holding since I saw them. I laughed until eternity. My insecurities. Vanished. That mild fantasy that we sometimes keep for someone we're not going to be with. Gone.
I know, some guys are good, some are bad, some are terrible, and I am in no way above average.
But seriously. This guy? This person? LMFAO. I know this guy from the inside out. Wouldn't want to get into the details but that guy is not worthy of deserving a partner. Seriously. Not a good human.
Forget about me, there were a ton of great guys. Good men. This guy? LOL.
____

Over the years, looking at the stories of married colleagues, I have realized something very important.
If we look back at our own lives, we see that a lot of decisions made by us weren't good or great decisions. But felt like great decisions in that moment. Most women are terrible decision makers. Just like most men are. Women aren't very different from men in this regard. We do the stupidest thing, thinking that our beliefs are supreme and we can't be wrong. Women are like that too, humans. That's why, perhaps, decision making used to be a very few people's job.

Just because a woman rejected you, doesn't mean she made the right decision. Her decision could be wrong. She doesn't know that. She could have been happier with you or lived a better life with you. And overall, looking how they are ending up, it doesn't seem like they are making the best choices for their partner in the long run. Atleast that's what I have observed.

So in this case, I do not believe that a lot of men need to feel "incel" because in general, the women they are getting rejected by, aren't raised to be virtuous and mature decision making enlightened gods. They're like us, with newer level of freedom of choice. Sure, I have also seen great pairs, happy pairs but that's in 10%-15% of the scenario.

for some of us with a unique vibrational level, there is only one appropriate match.

I'm becoming more and more like Unsigned here (but without the stomach to go down the escort route). Another year on campus. Another group of young adults starting out the best part of their lives while mine is over.

Most of my age peers who aren't already tied up with child-caring are low energy zombies, social circles are mostly static and unwelcoming, and anyway I feel no interest whatsoever in an older age circle.

And Incel... all round terrible person...is still more interesting than a well-adjusted old man.

Unsigned said:

I dull the pain with alcohol.
Since I was teen.

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Hey, not to be a downer or anything, but I did feel like it was worth mentioning that someone I know told me recently, that an acquaintance of theirs had just passed away from alcoholism-related disease last year. I'm guessing it was liver failure, but I don't know for sure.

This guy I was told about, started drinking a lot in high school, and only made it to 39.
I didn't know him myself, or exactly what he did but I know he drank in binges, and it definitely became a chemical addiction, rather than something he consciously chose to do.
The person I heard it from, said that by the end, this guy wasn't really enjoying the drinking anymore like he did in high school and college, but he just did it out of a compulsion.

I just wanted to point this out to say, it's worth it to consider slowing down the drinking, if you haven't done so already, in the best interests for your health.

if only my body would tolerate the stuff, I'd long ago have drowned my sorrows in a glass of whiskey or such. but it comes right up every time i've tried, as though I had a congenital "antabuse" inside my body.

MysteriousTelephone said:

So, I've posted here a fair bit over the last year. I believe I'm a fairly 'average' guy, am in good physical shape, socially confident, I have hobbies and interests and earn a decent living. Nothing spectacular, nothing terrible. Problem is, I've never had a girlfriend, and very extremely rarely anybody interested, the chief reason given to me is "too ugly". I've done everything I can do to negate this, getting in shape, taking care of my appearance etc, but at a certain level we're sort of stuck the the faces god gave us.

I really never thought of myself as an 'incel', though I am I suppose by definition "involuntary celibate" which is the actual meaning of the term, I never bought into the 'hating women' aspect of it. I don't hate women, it's not their fault that I'm ugly, sure it wouldn't hurt to take a chance on me, but them's the breaks I guess. Never bothered anyone, I've asked people out and respected their choice once they said no.

Recently, I am finding myself with, I suppose, less sympathy for a lot of women in my social circles. People who've spurned me in favour of chasing hot guys, then explode on social media when it inevitably goes wrong, moaning how there are no good men. There are good men, but some of them look like they fell off an ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. If you choose to ignore the objectively kind, funny, athletic individual in favour of the guy whose only achievement is great genetics and honeysuckle tattoos, I really don't have a lot of sympathy for you. Same with men, I suppose; had a guy come onto the scene, and within 2 months he's going out with one of the few attractive single women available. 6 months later she dumps him and he's moping around unhappy, and I'm expected to feel bad for him. Dude came with almost zero social skills or abilities, and was banging a hot blonde for 6 months, and given another month he'll likely be doing it again.

Does anyone else worry they're becoming an incel?

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Trevor is really smart, listen to him. IMPORTANT: Dude, unless you are genuinely disfigured by like fire or acid, and you do not have a significant back- hump or tentacles, it's not your looks. Get reasonably good at something. Dancing works because so many guys don't, maybe take lessons. But So does frisbee with a cool dog at the right dog park.

Kelly Optional said:

Trevor is really smart, listen to him. IMPORTANT: Dude, unless you are genuinely disfigured by like fire or acid, and you do not have a significant back- hump or tentacles, it's not your looks. Get reasonably good at something. Dancing works because so many guys don't, maybe take lessons. But So does frisbee with a cool dog at the right dog park.

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No fire or acid disfigurements, thanks! The looks thing is really all I can boil it down to, as everything else is pretty much 'in check', and I do get called out for being ugly fairly regularly.

Like I said, I'm good at quite a few things, one of which is the dancing. But here's the thing; it's literally a treasure trove of horny childfree women who want a man who can dance. I swear, that's not the reason I joined it, but it's something I've noticed! Women who have young children tend to filter themselves out of the scene because they can't go out freely, so the ones left are 99% childfree, and as much as you can dance with anyone, people tend to want a regular partner they can try new moves with. So we have this environment where single men are snapped up very quickly, because you've got a lot of single women who want a guy who can dance. Without boasting, I'm the best male dancer in my city, who is single (there are many better male dancers than me, they are all taken). So of what's left, I'm a solid option, yet when I try to get any further with anyone I'm immediately shot down. When I've asked a third party to try to gauge a woman's interest and see how she feels, the term comes back "too ugly" frequently.