38 male virgin - Pros and Cons of paying for sex

[Unsigned]

I think it's pretty funny that you two replied "but I DO go out!111" and, not satisfied with that, added "YET NO WHAMEN COME TALK TO ME!111 I WANT 8/10 SEXY BEAUTIES TO COME TALK TO MEE!11111".

Part of my comment about the 20 somethings was tongue in cheek humor.
I am pretty sure you got it.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I'm not telling you to shut up, I'm legitimately trying to help. If three months ago I had seen this same thread, or a similar one, and three months later you or someone else posted a thread saying "Yay! I FINALLY got a GIRLFRIEND!!!", I would say "congratulations! I hope this means happiness to you and I hope it all goes well from now on!" etc., but no! Instead, it's the same kind of post by mostly the same people, for years and years and years on end. I'm not complaining, this is, indeed, after all, a vent space, but if your strategy has been failing for years and years and years on end, and it has resulted in wasted efforts and much, much frustration (as it seems to be the case), maybe you should change your strategy, no? I'm only giving you reasons (correct, truthful reasons as I see them) for you to not care so much about women and sex, I'm not ORDERING (lol) you to stop caring about them, really.

I thought about this more, on my walk last night. And I think I got what you meant more clearly.

It does no good to theorize about attraction and talk about this stuff all day and night.

Once you get the message:

- get something going for you/get power/skills/good ideas/a distinct personality and identity, and decide and commit to these things and organize your life towards them

- get happy and secure with your life and yourself

then it's time to hang up the phone. It is time to leave the dojo and hit the road.

Only talking about this stuff, is only wanting "it" like you were saying. And it's no wonder women don't like that, because it's just wanting to get something out of them, it's boring, and you have to have a life - especially a life where things actually go your way because you have the power to make them. Just theorizing about attraction and sex, isn't having a life, any more than theorizing about drugs and getting high, isn't having a life either. It reminded me of this guy I used to smoke with years ago now, when I was still doing that. I wasn't really actual friends with this group, we were more of "weed friends". And this guy in particular, all he wanted to do, was figure out ways to hook up with women, and to smoke. He wasn't actually a strong, skillful person. He was dopey. I didn't really like this guy/he gave me bad vibes, but it's taken until now for me to articulate why. It was more or less this same issue - he wanted sex with women, but without being attractive and having a life.

And going out and doing things, like you said to do, isn't supposed to just be a distraction, or like fidgeting around in a waiting room - instead those are supposed to be your actual interests/personality/life, having a life. That's supposed to be your source of conversation material, and good feelings about yourself.

Just my second thoughts, I guess.

 

[user 191088]

Exactly! You're right! Also, note that you cannot become happy merely as a means to achieve something, you won't ever find happiness if all happiness is to you is a means to an end, because then your happiness will depend on you achieving that end, and since you have to be happy in order to achieve that end, you'll never become happy at all! You have to find in yourself the strength to be happy within a realistic set of accessible possibilities, you have to find happiness in the ambit of what you already have - or in the ambit of what you can realistically do -, and if a relationship is not a part of that, than you have to find your own happiness as a bachelor, accepting that fact, simply because it's much better to be happy than to not be happy at all. Accepting things and even resigning oneself to certain unmodifiable or nearly unmodifiable circumstances are not undignified acts, those are not things that "losers" do but, much to the contrary, they are the marks of a solar soul, of an illuminated individual. Throughout the ages this was always seen as such and this serene spirituality of the lover of the world was respected and cherished, it's only the perversion of contemporary culture that comes to denigrate it, to the harm of those that would otherwise be happy.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Exactly! You're right! Also, note that you cannot become happy merely as a means to achieve something, you won't ever find happiness if all happiness is to you is a means to an end, because then your happiness will depend on you achieving that end, and since you have to be happy in order to achieve that end, you'll never become happy at all! You have to find in yourself the strength to be happy within a realistic set of accessible possibilities, you have to find happiness in the ambit of what you already have - or in the ambit of what you can realistically do -, and if a relationship is not a part of that, than you have to find your own happiness as a bachelor, accepting that fact, simply because it's much better to be happy than to not be happy at all. Accepting things and even resigning oneself to certain unmodifiable or nearly unmodifiable circumstances are not undignified acts, those are not things that "losers" do but, much to the contrary, they are the marks of a solar soul, of an illuminated individual. Throughout the ages this was always seen as such and this serene spirituality of the lover of the world was respected and cherished, it's only the perversion of contemporary culture that comes to denigrate it, to the harm of those that would otherwise be happy.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.
I feel like giving up on life is what f*cked my life in the first place. It's the last thing I want to do.
F*CK "acceptance" and resignation, will always be my view.
It's something I have, and will always hate.
I maintain that they are for losers.
The day a person "accepts" is the day they might as well be dead.
They are inside. The body is just waiting to follow.

I just think if something is really important, like escaping my old story is to me, then the pain of staying in it is greater than the pain of trying every day until I escape. I just went through the motions before, and then I didn't even do that. Escape is all I want to do. I can only hope an organized, committed, clear-headed and sincere effort to escape, will be enough.

 

[ardour]

OP, don't take this the wrong way but you're experiences are typical of men with average or below looks.

After working out for a number of years and upping my style, I couldn't help noticing the blank stares or averted eyes from female service staff changed to neutral or friendly body language. Women are generally a lot friendlier now. They sit next to or near me on public transport (even to avoid other guys, sometimes). I get the odd smile from strange women walking past me on the street. This never happened before, and it completely blindsided me as I'd become used to the opposite. I even get the odd extended look at the gym sometimes. A bizarre turnaround.

From "creepy" to mostly "safe" when the only thing that changed about me was my appearance. (Too late, due to my age, sadly.)

This is all reenforced every time I walk outside on the campus I work at. The young men in mixed social circles are usually better looking than average and look very much upper middle class.

It's hard not to be cynical after seeing and experiencing this over and over. The reality is we are judged by surface level characteristics first and foremost: looks, class/status, maybe confidence etc.

So maybe don't bother with the 'inner work' nonsense; change the outer first and see where it gets you.

 

[user 191088]

The day a person "accepts" is the day they might as well be dead.

On the contrary, it's the person who is never satisfied with anything and that is always wanting more and more that is as good as dead, but this is starting to get repetitive, so I'll refrain from elaborating. Sometimes silence speak louder than words, or so they say... I'll let mine speak for me.

 

[TheSkaFish]

On the contrary, it's the person who is never satisfied with anything and that is always wanting more and more that is as good as dead, but this is starting to get repetitive, so I'll refrain from elaborating. Sometimes silence speak louder than words, or so they say... I'll let mine speak for me.

Fair enough. It's not that I don't understand what you're saying. It's just not a belief I share.

I've seen what acceptance and resignation look like first-hand...from my point of view, it sucks.
Even the people that claim to be happy with it, I've heard them complain. I don't believe their claims.
(That's another thing in general - when I say I hate something, people assume that I'm trashing something that I don't know enough about to know what I'm talking about, when no, I have in fact experienced these situations enough to know I hate them.)
It's indistinguishable to me, from just giving up on life - the same thing as someone might do that drinks or gets high every day.
I've always known I wanted something else.

Maybe you're at a place in life that is "good enough", and therefore it's not so painful for you to stay there.
My personal belief is that you have to at least reach "OK", before you can start talking about contentment (and a relationship is, to me, part of "just OK", "normal" - again not some exotic luxury, like wealth or fame - it was always presented to me as the normal progression of life, and I've seen all kinds of people get into relationships, and I've always felt, why not me?).
And I haven't reached "OK" yet.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Even the people that claim to be happy with it, I've heard them complain. I don't believe their claims.

Everyone complains about something at some point...whether they are happy or not.

 

[TheRealCallie]

(That's another thing in general - when I say I hate something, people assume that I'm trashing something that I don't know enough about to know what I'm talking about, when no, I have in fact experienced these situations enough to know I hate them.)

Entirely depends on the circumstances and how much of a chance you gave it.

the same thing as someone might do that drinks or gets high every day.
I've always known I wanted something else.

Drinking and getting high are, more often than not, done to escape. That's different. I'm sure you probably wouldn't be opposed to a glass of wine with dinner or something like that (if you like the taste of wine...I personally don't)

 

[TheRealCallie]

I've seen what acceptance and resignation look like first-hand...from my point of view, it sucks.

Okay, apparently, I'm being that annoying person that makes a million posts because I keep finding things I want to say. lol

Anyway. There is acceptance and then there is ACCEPTANCE. To truly accept something, you have to be willing to let it go. If you can't let it go, you haven't accepted it. If you still dwell on it, you haven't accepted it. Until you are ready to to let it go, not let it impact your life and forgive yourself for what happened, you can't really accept anything.
There are a lot of people who SAY they accepted something and they likely believe they have accepted it, but in reality, they really haven't. THAT is where resignation comes in. You aren't ready to give up on your past, so you can't accept it yet. When you are truly ready to move on from it, you will. Not a moment before. I think fear is still holding you back from doing that. Just my opinion, of course, I can only go by what you post, so I can be way off.

And I know people think I'm a cold hearted bitch when I say anything about "reality" when it comes to trying and accepting and all that, but I'm not. I thought for years that I had accepted what happened to me, I thought for years that I was trying my hardest to change. I wasn't. It FELT like I was at the time, but I really wasn't. I know many others that have the same experience....from all over the world. Likely anyone who has come out the other side of something will tell you the same.

 

[Constantin]

Going forward, if while you are trying to find a GF, and you really need a release, then once in a while go to a Massage Parlor where they do "happy endings"

I never understood the point of "happy endings" in massage parlors. Why would I pay for someone to give me a *******? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I can masturbate at home for free. What about the fact that it's a female hand that masturbates me make it any different? It's not a different experience like feeling your penis enter a vagina. It's just a hand. A female hand. Big whoop!

 

[ardour]

It's not a different experience like feeling your penis enter a vagina.

You could try this instead.

 

[Unsigned]

I never understood the point of "happy endings" in massage parlors. Why would I pay for someone to give me a *******? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I can masturbate at home for free. What about the fact that it's a female hand that masturbates me make it any different? It's not a different experience like feeling your penis enter a vagina. It's just a hand. A female hand. Big whoop!

Have you ever had one?
It's 55 mins of fantastic massage.
Head to toe.
Most places will flip you at the 40 minute mark, do the "happy ending", and then another 10-15 minutes of front massage, with the ones who are experts cracking your neck, and then spending more time on your feet. And the 5 last mins to cleanup and get dressed.
It's a fantastic experience, IMO.

 

[M_also_lonely]

I think you lack that....thing. That's what's missing. Hmm..

 

[abbynormal]

Too many men lose themselves in this rabbit hole when, in fact, they always had at their disposal the means to live happy, dignified and worthwhile lives, they just failed or refused to see the truth, the truth upon which - and only upon which - a set of appropriate ethical assumptions can be based.

just what is this "means to live happy, dignified and worthwhile lives"?

 

[user 191088]

just what is this "means to live happy, dignified and worthwhile lives"?

Did I just turn into some sort of celebrity or something? Suddenly I can't say a thing without someone asking me loaded questions or making a fuss about it. Go figure...

 

[red_radio]

I think someone mentioned here that virgins are a sad bunch and they should go out more, not sit at home, cry and blame the world/women how cruel everyone is.

Myself - I do go out. Only this past weekend I went mountain hiking. Solo. I don't have a car, so I had to book transport, accomodation, every detail. And relied only on myself to climb a 2000m mountain. I went before with friends, or with my brother and his fiancee, it was nice. But to just explore on your own feels great. I felt like a real man. Although I did feel at times people looking kind of weird at me - there were couples, families etc on the trail. Even at the accomodation they were expecting 2 persons haha. Ah, the stigma of being nearly 40 and still single...

I do go out. Sometimes I go out to parks. I grab a book, or my headphones, and just chill on a bench for a couple of hours. I work from home at the moment, so I really need the walks and the fresh air.

I recently went to the cinema also on my own. I've seen Furiosa. Mediocre at best, in my opinion.

This month I'll go on another trip with a group of my brother's friends. At least he has a better life than mine.

I've got the travel bug. I plan to see Paris by the end of the year.

So I'm trying...but it's hard sometimes. You don't always have that energy to just go out and conquer the world - like the coupled people or people with many friends.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I think someone mentioned here that virgins are a sad bunch and they should go out more, not sit at home, cry and blame the world/women how cruel everyone is.

Myself - I do go out. Only this past weekend I went mountain hiking. Solo. I don't have a car, so I had to book transport, accomodation, every detail. And relied only on myself to climb a 2000m mountain. I went before with friends, or with my brother and his fiancee, it was nice. But to just explore on your own feels great. I felt like a real man. Although I did feel at times people looking kind of weird at me - there were couples, families etc on the trail. Even at the accomodation they were expecting 2 persons haha. Ah, the stigma of being nearly 40 and still single...

I do go out. Sometimes I go out to parks. I grab a book, or my headphones, and just chill on a bench for a couple of hours. I work from home at the moment, so I really need the walks and the fresh air.

I recently went to the cinema also on my own. I've seen Furiosa. Mediocre at best, in my opinion.

This month I'll go on another trip with a group of my brother's friends. At least he has a better life than mine.

I've got the travel bug. I plan to see Paris by the end of the year.

So I'm trying...but it's hard sometimes. You don't always have that energy to just go out and conquer the world - like the coupled people or people with many friends.

Okay, I'm not going to say anything about what you are doing for/by yourself, because you need that too. You need the break and alone time and time with other people even if you are in a relationship.
That said. Alone on the trails...even if you do meet another alone/group of females, they are going to be wary. Because, well...just please, we watch true crime, we know that's how we get kidnapped and brutally murdered. lol Hell, you'll probably chop us up and make stew from us too.
In the park you are unapproachable because of the book and headphones. Same with the movie really, dark and you're supposed to be quiet.

So, while it's great that you are doing stuff and traveling and all that, you also need to put yourself into positions to meet new people. Because if you don't, you can't make new friends or potentially meet your significant other. I'm not saying all the time, but a group hobby or volunteering would do wonders for meeting new people. And I know it can be really taxing to put yourself out there, but there's really no other way to do it.

 

[ardour]

'Going out' and 'talking to single women who don't find you repulsive' while out are two very different things.

 

[TheRealCallie]

'Going out' and 'talking to single women who don't find you repulsive' while out are two very different things.

It definitely is, yes. But in the context of the thread, I'm pretty sure they meant putting yourself into social situations.

But, unless you are going to a singles event, there's no way of knowing right off whether a person is single or not....hell, even if you're at a singles event, there's no way of really knowing. That's why I keep it more generalized of just meeting people. Even if you only end up with friends, those friends could help you find someone simply by association.