Bad Boy vs Nice Guy

[TheRealCallie]

I think guys like us have to be really careful about how we come across. 

Yes, because you come off sounding like you are generalizing absolutely everything about the "bad boys."  Oh wait....you are.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I think guys like us have to be really careful about how we come across. 

Yes, because you come off sounding like you are generalizing absolutely everything about the "bad boys."  Oh wait....you are.

Well, you know what they say about stereotypes having a grain of truth. In the bad boys' case, I'd say it's a whole beach's worth.

 

[EveWasFramed]

I'm sure I'll probably get roasted for this, but some of the comments I'm reading give the impression that some people are damn near OBSESSED with this "bad guy" stereotype.
To fault someone simply because they are more masculine than you are?? There's NOTHING wrong with men who don't share your (anyone) characteristics. And to suggest that females like men who act badly??
They are in the minority in my opinion. Not many people, male or female, want to be with someone who breaks the law, etc.
Jesus Christ...maybe if people stopped focusing so much of their energy on who they AREN'T and stopped obsessing over these stereotypes, they'd have more time and energy to focus on THEMSELVES.
Yes, there are certainly men out there who fit that stereotype, but ****. Move the hell on.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I'm sure I'll probably get roasted for this, but some of the comments I'm reading give the impression that some people are damn near OBSESSED with this "bad guy" stereotype.
To fault someone simply because they are more masculine than you are?? There's NOTHING wrong with men who don't share your (anyone) characteristics. And to suggest that females like men who act badly??
They are in the minority in my opinion. Not many people, male or female, want to be with someone who breaks the law, etc.
Jesus Christ...maybe if people stopped focusing so much of their energy on who they AREN'T and stopped obsessing over these stereotypes, they'd have more time and energy to focus on THEMSELVES.
Yes, there are certainly men out there who fit that stereotype, but ****. Move the hell on.

I agree.  It's more just excuses.  Don't want to blame one's self, so they look for someone/something else to blame.

 

[EveWasFramed]

I'm sure I'll probably get roasted for this, but some of the comments I'm reading give the impression that some people are damn near OBSESSED with this "bad guy" stereotype.
To fault someone simply because they are more masculine than you are?? There's NOTHING wrong with men who don't share your (anyone) characteristics. And to suggest that females like men who act badly??
They are in the minority in my opinion. Not many people, male or female, want to be with someone who breaks the law, etc.
Jesus Christ...maybe if people stopped focusing so much of their energy on who they AREN'T and stopped obsessing over these stereotypes, they'd have more time and energy to focus on THEMSELVES.
Yes, there are certainly men out there who fit that stereotype, but ****. Move the hell on.

I agree.  It's more just excuses.  Don't want to blame one's self, so they look for someone/something else to blame.

Honestly, I'm baffled. It would exhaust me to analyze something to death like that.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I'm sure I'll probably get roasted for this, but some of the comments I'm reading give the impression that some people are damn near OBSESSED with this "bad guy" stereotype.
To fault someone simply because they are more masculine than you are?? There's NOTHING wrong with men who don't share your (anyone) characteristics.

But there is something wrong with me for not sharing their characteristics.  That's totally okay.  See that's what pisses me off, the double standard, the idea of acceptable lifestyle targets.  They say "be yourself" but it's more like

"be yourself*

*see list of acceptable 'selves', otherwise have fun being stuck with someone you don't like, if anyone at all"

EveWasFramed

---

And to suggest that females like men who act badly??

---

I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, both in real life and the media.

EveWasFramed

---

They are in the minority in my opinion. Not many people, male or female, want to be with someone who breaks the law, etc. 
Jesus Christ...maybe if people stopped focusing so much of their energy on who they AREN'T and stopped obsessing over these stereotypes, they'd have more time and energy to focus on THEMSELVES. 
Yes, there are certainly men out there who fit that stereotype, but ****. Move the hell on.

---

I'll agree with that.  Actual criminals are in the minority.  But there's also a lot of guys who don't go the whole way, they just take some cues from the more hardcore types to enhance their image.  That tends to be good enough.  

I'm not going to "move on" from this though, I hate that, and I hate them too.  I don't agree with what they say and do and their place at the top of the social food chain.  Maybe I can't get rid of them or change the way the world views people like this but I don't have like or accept them if I don't want to, and I really don't.

 

[MisterLonely]

Bad Boys - 6.8
The Nice Guys - 7.4

There you have it nice guys win!

(source IMDB)

 

[TheRealCallie]

^^ LOL, nice

 

[EveWasFramed]

I'm sure I'll probably get roasted for this, but some of the comments I'm reading give the impression that some people are damn near OBSESSED with this "bad guy" stereotype.
To fault someone simply because they are more masculine than you are?? There's NOTHING wrong with men who don't share your (anyone) characteristics.

But there is something wrong with me for not sharing their characteristics.  That's totally okay.  See that's what pisses me off, the double standard, the idea of acceptable lifestyle targets.  They say "be yourself" but it's more like

"be yourself*

*see list of acceptable 'selves', otherwise have fun being stuck with someone you don't like, if anyone at all"

EveWasFramed

---

And to suggest that females like men who act badly??

---

I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, both in real life and the media.

EveWasFramed

---

They are in the minority in my opinion. Not many people, male or female, want to be with someone who breaks the law, etc. 
Jesus Christ...maybe if people stopped focusing so much of their energy on who they AREN'T and stopped obsessing over these stereotypes, they'd have more time and energy to focus on THEMSELVES. 
Yes, there are certainly men out there who fit that stereotype, but ****. Move the hell on.

---

I'll agree with that.  Actual criminals are in the minority.  But there's also a lot of guys who don't go the whole way, they just take some cues from the more hardcore types to enhance their image.  That tends to be good enough.  

I'm not going to "move on" from this though, I hate that, and I hate them too.  I don't agree with what they say and do and their place at the top of the social food chain.  Maybe I can't get rid of them or change the way the world views people like this but I don't have like or accept them if I don't want to, and I really don't.

---

---

First, YOU are the only one here saying there's something wrong with you because you don't fall under the stereotype of "bad guy." You certainly didn't see ME say that. Nor did I say you needed to like or accept anything. Read your last paragraph. To me, and maybe to others, your comments are borderline obsessive. To be so fixated on someone else just isn't healthy in my opinion.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, both in real life and the media.

Well....someone is lying to oneself....

---

I've asked "nice" guys out before. I was turned down. But, I'm sure that's because I'm a ***** and not worthy of the "nice" guys, right?

 

[TheSkaFish]

First, YOU are the only one here saying there's something wrong with you because you don't fall under the stereotype of "bad guy." You certainly didn't see ME say that. Nor did I say you needed to like or accept anything. Read your last paragraph. To me, and maybe to others, your comments are borderline obsessive. To be so fixated on someone else just isn't healthy in my opinion.

I just don't understand why we're having this argument.  I know how you, Callie, and others feel, and you know how I feel.  I know what I've experienced.  I don't like macho men, bad boys, etc.  I don't like getting shown up and edged out by anyone, especially people that I feel make bad choices in life on purpose, or who are all about image.  Those are my views and I don't feel like changing them until I have a reason to.

I posted in this thread to explain why I was a nice guy, where it came from both good and bad, and since it's caused problems for me and others, to try and find a better way to be.  I wanted to relate and see if anyone has felt the same way.  As far as I see it, the nice guys are the ones who must be doing something wrong because they aren't getting the outcomes they want.  This seems like a common issue.  The bad boys are doing just fine.  

And I analyze these things because I'm very unhappy with the way things have gone in this area of my life in the past.  I want to change the way things go for me, change my path.  It doesn't help me to keep making the same mistakes over and over because I don't know how to do things the right way.  

I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, both in real life and the media.

Well....someone is lying to oneself....

---

I've asked "nice" guys out before.  I was turned down.  But, I'm sure that's because I'm a ***** and not worthy of the "nice" guys, right?

---

I don't know why you were turned down.  I haven't really looked into why women get turned down since I haven't really been interested in that, to be honest.

 

[Paraiyar]

I think guys like us have to be really careful about how we come across. 

Yes, because you come off sounding like you are generalizing absolutely everything about the "bad boys."  Oh wait....you are.

Well, you know what they say about stereotypes having a grain of truth.  In the bad boys' case, I'd say it's a whole beach's worth.

Your stupid obsession with this is causing you to squander all your life opportunities.  Seriously man, give it up before it takes anything more from you...

 

[TheRealCallie]

First, YOU are the only one here saying there's something wrong with you because you don't fall under the stereotype of "bad guy." You certainly didn't see ME say that. Nor did I say you needed to like or accept anything. Read your last paragraph. To me, and maybe to others, your comments are borderline obsessive. To be so fixated on someone else just isn't healthy in my opinion.

I just don't understand why we're having this argument.  I know how you, Callie, and others feel, and you know how I feel.  I know what I've experienced.  I don't like macho men, bad boys, etc.  I don't like getting shown up and edged out by anyone, especially people that I feel make bad choices in life on purpose, or who are all about image.  Those are my views and I don't feel like changing them until I have a reason to.

I posted in this thread to explain why I was a nice guy, where it came from both good and bad, and since it's caused problems for me and others, to try and find a better way to be.  I wanted to relate and see if anyone has felt the same way.  As far as I see it, the nice guys are the ones who must be doing something wrong because they aren't getting the outcomes they want.  This seems like a common issue.  The bad boys are doing just fine.  

And I analyze these things because I'm very unhappy with the way things have gone in this area of my life in the past.  I want to change the way things go for me, change my path.  It doesn't help me to keep making the same mistakes over and over because I don't know how to do things the right way.  

I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, both in real life and the media.

Well....someone is lying to oneself....

---

I've asked "nice" guys out before.  I was turned down.  But, I'm sure that's because I'm a ***** and not worthy of the "nice" guys, right?

---

I don't know why you were turned down.  I haven't really looked into why women get turned down since I haven't really been interested in that, to be honest.

---

Just because it's YOUR truth doesn't mean it really is the truth.  I've known a lot of ******** who happen to be men, so can I stereotype all men as ********?  Because that's what your logic seems to be....

To be clear, I've also had "bad" boys turn me down.  I've also NOT been turned down by both.  It's not about other people, it's about YOU.  It's about whether or not a girl is interested in YOU.  It's about how high your standards are.  It's about how many excuses you make. It's about where you choose to put the blame.  If you don't have a girlfriend, it's on YOU, not everyone else. 

And that applies to everyone, not just you in particular.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Just because it's YOUR truth doesn't mean it really is the truth.  I've known a lot of ******** who happen to be men, so can I stereotype all men as ********?  Because that's what your logic seems to be....

To be clear, I've also had "bad" boys turn me down.  I've also NOT been turned down by both.  It's not about other people, it's about YOU.  It's about whether or not a girl is interested in YOU.  It's about how high your standards are.  It's about how many excuses you make. It's about where you choose to put the blame.  If you don't have a girlfriend, it's on YOU, not everyone else. 

And that applies to everyone, not just you in particular.

If a lot of members of a certain group made me feel the same negative way, I wouldn't like that group too much.  I don't see what's so crazy about that.

I also really do feel that generally, women have an easier time in dating than men.  I feel like they are the choosers and therefore have most of the power.  I feel like their chance of getting turned down is less, and of getting their choice instead of settling is higher.

I try constantly to analyze where I am short, what I'm doing incorrectly, and how I can change myself in order to maximize my chances of interesting girls that I'd actually want to have in my life, instead of someone I have to settle for because it's that or nothing.  I try to see if maybe I can adjust "myself" into something a little more attractive to the kind of person I like but without being in conflict with my beliefs. I also think maybe I could portray my beliefs in a way that's more acceptable and doesn't make me unattractive.  If anything, I am trying to take responsibility for how things go for me, instead of leaving it up to chance like I used to.  

I blame myself plenty for making mistakes and having a bunch of flaws that I've taken the time to figure out.  I consider that maybe most of my personality turned out wrong and I am trying to fix it.  Most of it was just me not knowing any better because I lacked the experience. It appears that being too nice and all those other things I listed are problems for attracting almost any woman because a lot of people have said the same thing.  The way I feel about bad boys isn't so much "blame" as it is, I despise them.  That's all.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Um, I'm sorry, but men are just as likely to put women into stereotypical categories as women are to put men.   If you don't believe that, you might want to take the blinders off and look at the world again.

You despise them because they get what you want?  You don't get what you want because they get it first.  You don't get what you want because every woman in the world would rather have a "bad boy" than a self proclaimed "nice guy"...don't deny that, you've said it.  That, sir, is called blame.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Um, I'm sorry, but men are just as likely to put women into stereotypical categories as women are to put men.   If you don't believe that, you might want to take the blinders off and look at the world again.

You despise them because they get what you want?  You don't get what you want because they get it first.  You don't get what you want because every woman in the world would rather have a "bad boy" than a self proclaimed "nice guy"...don't deny that, you've said it.  That, sir, is called blame.

I despise them for a lot of reasons.  The way they bring problems on themselves with their lifestyle but everyone loves them anyway, the violence, the raunchiness, the macho culture, the posturing, the image, the emphasis on intimidation and rebellion for its own sake, especially to be seen doing it.  It seems backwards, trashy, obnoxious, and stupid.  If anything I blame the media for presenting this image as the cool thing to be, and if you're not a defiant "real rugged man", it must be that you're a sissy and therefore unattractive.  I don't like it and I don't think they are better than me and I don't see why I can't hold those views.

 

[ardour]

It's very tempting to agree with Skafish, even if he comes across as a bit one-track mind. Masculine men get what they want more often than shy, introverted, insecure men who can't play the role. And a lot of women are attracted to particular aspects of masculinity. That's beyond debate. It's a driver of stereotypical masculinity, part of why it continues, although it'll be a cold day in hell before feminists will concede women have a hand in it.

But of course it comes at a cost, the main one being that self-identified masculine guys can never express vulnerability. When they want something - something that has an emotional aspect, someone they can occasionally open up to, etc. - they can't ever act like it. I'd rather be alone.

 

[TheRealCallie]

It's very tempting for me to agree with what Skafish, even if he comes across as a bit one-track minded.  Masculine men generally get what they want more often than shy men who can't play the role. Women are generally attracted to  unburstable confidence, decisiveness  and and element of unpredictability (obligatory clarification: not abuse or criminal behaviour), and it's convenient for them to have a partner who is essentially low maintenance when it comes to the emotional side of things. It's one of the drivers of stereotypical masculinity, part of why it continues, although it'll be a cold day in Hell before feminists will concede that women have a hand in it.

But of course it comes at a cost, the main one being that hyper-masculine bros can never express vulnerability. When they want something - something that has an emotional aspect -  they can't act like they want it. I'd rather die alone.

I know "bad boys" who express vulnerability all the time.  What you people see as "masculinity," I believe is really just confidence.  Perhaps it comes off as arrogance, but don't you "nice guys" have the same problem with how you come across to people?

 

[Paraiyar]

Plenty of my friends who have girlfriends are decent guys. Just forget this whole stupid dichotomy and start doing more for yourself.

 

[ardour]

Plenty of my friends who have girlfriends are decent guys. Just forget this whole stupid dichotomy and start doing more for yourself.

Sure I know friends and acquaintances with partners, who are decent and appear nothing like the negative arsehole stereotype. Still, we are talking about general patterns here, and you don't what people are like in the context of their relationship, away from friends and family.