Bored? Entertainment Mega Thread

[LoneKiller]

but what I can't get past is how one person goes from this to this due to an illness. She looked perfectly fine in the "Before Picture"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel

The autopsy report stated the cause of death as malnutrition and dehydration from almost a year of semi-starvation while the rites of exorcism were performed.[9] She weighed 68 pounds (30.91 kilograms). The previous day, she had broken knees due to the continuous genuflection and was unable to move without assistance, was reported to have been suffering pneumonia.[6]

I believe this is the more probable cause:

A report into her cause of death stated that it was due to malnutrition and dehydration while the rites were being performed. This attracted an investigation, which concluded that she could have been saved if medical help was given even a day before. The parents and the two priests were charged, and the court case attracted much media and public attention. It has been called a misidentification of a mental illness, negligence, abuse and religious hysteria. After a guilty verdict, the defendants were sentenced to six months in jail but given three years of probation and a fine.

So this would mean that she was already suffering from malnutrition and dehydration before the exorcism was performed and she died while the exorcism was being performed?

 

[Shut_Out]

^ No, she refused to eat later.

Once convinced of her possession, Anneliese, her parents, and the exorcists stopped seeking medical treatment, and put her fate solely into the hands of the exorcism rites.[4] Sixty-seven exorcism sessions, one or two each week, lasting up to four hours, were performed over about ten months in 1975 and 1976.[4] At some point, Michel began talking increasingly about "dying to atone for the wayward youth of the day and the apostate priests of the modern church", and she refused to eat. At her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[4]

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Thank you, ShutOut. That's what I meant by malnutrition.

I probably should have been the one to quote that, but you did it better than I could.

 

[LoneKiller]

^ No, she refused to eat later.

Once convinced of her possession, Anneliese, her parents, and the exorcists stopped seeking medical treatment, and put her fate solely into the hands of the exorcism rites.[4] Sixty-seven exorcism sessions, one or two each week, lasting up to four hours, were performed over about ten months in 1975 and 1976.[4] At some point, Michel began talking increasingly about "dying to atone for the wayward youth of the day and the apostate priests of the modern church", and she refused to eat. At her own request, doctors were no longer being consulted.[4]

Hi Shut_Out.

It goes on to say that she became intolerant to various religious objects and her condition worsened regardless of the meds that were administered. She just happened to have a seizure during the exorcism and speak in such a horrific manner?

 

[Shut_Out]

Thank you, ShutOut. That's what I meant by malnutrition.

I probably should have been the one to quote that, but you did it better than I could.

Nah, I just backed you up - yours was a good explanation.

I prefer to quote when I can, rather than write things out. I'm lazy that way.

 

[LoneKiller]

I don't want to get into an argument here guys. Maybe we can all agree that we are in over our heads on this issue. I'm certainly no expert in this field.

 

[Shut_Out]

It goes on to say that she became intolerant to various religious objects and her condition worsened regardless of the meds that were administered. She just happened to have a seizure during the exorcism and speak in such a horrific manner?

Yeah, but often people have to go through several drugs to find the right cocktail that works. And if an illness is severe enough, drugs don't help much.
Plus, she and her parents had pretty strong religious views on the matter - for all we know, they were impatient, or dismissive, and left the hospital before all treatment options were explored. Add to that, that mental hospitals in the 70's weren't necessarily the most healthy places for recovery, at least not in the US - I don't know if German hospitals were much better. Regardless, psychiatric care has come a long way since then. Were she treated today, with our new therapies and drugs, the outcome might have been completely different.

I don't want to get into an argument here guys. Maybe we can all agree that we are in over our heads on this issue. I'm certainly no expert in this field.

No problem, and I agree. I'll be the first to admit that I am by far no expert. Thanks for the discussion!

 

[LoneKiller]

It goes on to say that she became intolerant to various religious objects and her condition worsened regardless of the meds that were administered. She just happened to have a seizure during the exorcism and speak in such a horrific manner?

Yeah, but often people have to go through several drugs to find the right cocktail that works. And if an illness is severe enough, drugs don't help much.
Plus, she and her parents had pretty strong religious views on the matter - for all we know, they were impatient, or dismissive, and left the hospital before all treatment options were explored. Add to that, that mental hospitals in the 70's weren't necessarily the most healthy places for recovery, at least not in the US - I don't know if German hospitals were much better. Regardless, psychiatric care has come a long way since then. Were she treated today, with our new therapies and drugs, the outcome might have been completely different.

I don't want to get into an argument here guys. Maybe we can all agree that we are in over our heads on this issue. I'm certainly no expert in this field.

No problem, and I agree. I'll be the first to admit that I am by far no expert. Thanks for the discussion!

Very true what you say. Man! What happened to her certainly makes me grateful my degree mental health even though it's not perfect. I could not imagine suffering through what she did. WOW!

 

[Shut_Out]

Very true what you say. Man! What happened to her certainly makes me grateful my degree mental health even though it's not perfect. I could not imagine suffering through what she did. WOW!

Indeed! It puts things in perspective.

 

[LoneKiller]

Very true what you say. Man! What happened to her certainly makes me grateful my degree mental health even though it's not perfect. I could not imagine suffering through what she did. WOW!

Indeed! It puts things in perspective.

Often times I bitch and moan about the side effects of my meds without even taking into consideration just how lucky I am to have them available to me. I think that sometimes in this world we tend to take for granted the things we have without giving any thought to what our life would be like without them.

 

[Shipster0958]

I believe she was a very mentally sick girl. Nothing more, and it's sad when we allow "religion" to hold itself above the law.

 

[LoneKiller]

I believe she was a very mentally sick girl. Nothing more, and it's sad when we allow "religion" to hold itself above the law.

Above the law? Nobody's saying it is.

 

[Shipster0958]

That was the whole premise of the court case, so that's pretty much exactly what they were saying. The priest believed she died of demonic causes, instead of the fact that her family allowed him to discontinue her treatment and try to "exorcise" her. She might have lived if she continued her treatment.

 

[LoneKiller]

That was the whole premise of the court case, so that's pretty much exactly what they were saying. The priest believed she died of demonic causes, instead of the fact that her family allowed him to discontinue her treatment and try to "exorcise" her. She might have lived if she continued her treatment.

Just because the priest had his own beliefs doesn't make religion above the law. If it were above the law, they wouldn't be in court to begin with. Religion is very complex. Wars have started over it.

 

[Shipster0958]

Isn't most war started over something religious? Seems to be that way.

Religion here was trying to justify why this girl died with some supernatural evidence, therefore believing their priest shouldn't be in trouble. That's why I say they're trying to hold themselves above the law. But they went to court due to the fact the people representing the sick girl were following procedure to hold him responsible.

I think if this would have been a non-religious family, things would have gone a lot differently an the girl would still be alive. She may still be mentally ill, or have died from a different complication, but she wouldn't have passed from negligence.

 

[LoneKiller]

We are just going to have to agree to disagree here.
I'm not God, a priest, a psychiatrist, judge, or a doctor. Neither are you I'm guessing, so I have no interest in contributing to an argument that will lead to this thread being locked. If I were a professional, I would be able to discuss more intelligently. I'm not so I have nothing further to add. Thank you for your input just the same.

 

[Shipster0958]

I obviously wasn't trying to start a malicious argument, but I thought the purpose of this thread was to share our ideas and thoughts about the situation?

And I don't believe we have to be a doctor or judge to hold opinions and discuss the topic like originally intended. And I wasn't trying to sway your opinion, just simply stating mine.

Agree to disagree.

 

[LittlegirlLost]

I must agree with the other posts. I work in the emergency psychiatric field. I have seen similar incidents in the hospital I work. Also, it always bothered me that people who end up having exorcisms are people who come from extremely religious families. I have not been able to find one case of someone being possessed who was not religious. If you believe in anything, then it exists. I don't believe in the whole heaven/hell/devil/demon thing, so to me, it doesn't exist. I'm not saying I'm right and someone else is wrong. I'm just saying that if you believe it, then it is true for you. Religion and schizophrenia do not mix well and I have seen some awful cases of it. If you are raised believing in demons, believing that bad thoughts you have (even though we all have them) mean that you are possessed, then you will think you are possessed. Mix this with someone prone to mental illness and you have detonated a ticking time bomb. Most of these cases were college age. If I remember this story, (unless it was a different case), it happened to this girl shortly after she left her very religious family to go to college. Imagine what she may have seen and experienced away at school. drinking, promiscuity, things that she was always taught were bad. Mix that with her religious beliefs and see what happens. Schizophrenia generally occurs at this age. I wouldn't even be surprised if she did something wrong herself, like drank, maybe was with a boy. The guilt got to her and to cover up her behavior, she worked herself right into a psychotic state.
I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I have been in the field for 12 years, and I have seen things that you wouldn't believe. And try to find a case where an exorcism was performed on someone who was not religious. That's all I'm saying.

 

[LoneKiller]

I obviously wasn't trying to start a malicious argument, but I thought the purpose of this thread was to share our ideas and thoughts about the situation?

And I don't believe we have to be a doctor or judge to hold opinions and discuss the topic like originally intended. And I wasn't trying to sway your opinion, just simply stating mine.

Agree to disagree.

No No. I understand what you are saying. In retrospect, I shouldn't have started this thread to begin with. Exorcism is related to religion which is a topic that isn't permitted to discuss here. No harm no foul.

 

[Shipster0958]

Surely you had to know the controversy that this would spark. The entire issue is a religious issue and the fact that you seem to be back peddling on it now makes me wary to post my thoughts and opinions in your threads now, seeing as when they aren't the same as yours, you call me on a technicality on the original intent of the post.

Seems like this should be more in the up for debate section.