Do Pickup Artist manuals work?

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Thanks for that, Peter.

I guess I just need to be my shy, quiet self, and hope someone who's also introverted will notice me?

 

[Peter Lorre]

Well, ask yourself this: do I want someone who's attracted to the real me or do I want to pretend to be someone she's attracted to? Seems like an easy choice to me.

Also, you need to put yourself out there, but you need to pick the right 'hunting ground'. Just like you won't be able to catch a shark in your local pond, you won't be able to find a shy, introvert girl who hates parties at a party. Good places to find a girl are: classes, sport clubs, social clubs, book clubs, shops, lectures, ...

Ask yourself where you'd want to be and what groups/things you want to be part of. Chances are your dreamgirl will be there. How to make contact with her? Just think of her as someone who shares a similar interest first, and see her as a girl second. It'll make you less nervous.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Are you actually asking for dating advice on a forum inhabited by chronically lonely people?

I would take any advice you receive with a ton of salt.

 

[Anten]

They have liked me, and known that I liked them. They still don't want to make the first move.

Part of the reason I don't want to make the first move is because I fear being hurt. That is why I wanted to know if PUA manuals would work, because if they did, then I would definitely want to get them, because anything that could ease my social skills with girls and prevent me hearing the "You're a nice guy, but..." or "I like you, but..." would definitely be worth the money.

You would have serious amounts of rejection with being a PUA, mostly from just starting out but you still will face rejection often afterwards.

 

[Astral_Punisher]

Sex is pretty much the best thing you can have.

I would agree that sex is generally a good thing. There is a saying:
"Sex is like pizza.
When it's great, it's awesome.
When it's bad, it's still pretty alright."

Well, ask yourself this: do I want someone who's attracted to the real me or do I want to pretend to be someone she's attracted to? Seems like an easy choice to me.

Also, you need to put yourself out there, but you need to pick the right 'hunting ground'. Just like you won't be able to catch a shark in your local pond, you won't be able to find a shy, introvert girl who hates parties at a party. Good places to find a girl are: classes, sport clubs, social clubs, book clubs, shops, lectures, ...

Ask yourself where you'd want to be and what groups/things you want to be part of. Chances are your dreamgirl will be there. How to make contact with her? Just think of her as someone who shares a similar interest first, and see her as a girl second. It'll make you less nervous.

This is pretty solid advice, I think. Search for a partner in places where you would, yourself like to be.
Chances are good that they will have a similar interest, and lets be honest - sharing interests with someone makes it MUCH MUCH easier to talk to, and strike up a friendship/relationship with them.

I have recently read about 1/2 of 'The Game' book.
I encourage you to read it, but with a grain of salt.

My biggest take away?

The 'stage-name' aspect of 'the game'.

Not that I mean you should 'trawl' for partners with a made up name (Such as 'Mystery' or 'Style', as in the book), but that you separate the bulk of your 'nervous energy' away from who you are when you are out, hoping to meet people. Such energy only holds you back from talking to people, or alternatively, can make you blurt out something when you least want to.

I personally feel that it's similar to the whole 'picture people in their underwear' when you are public speaking. You need something to cut out the nervousness so that you can focus on what's important.

In the case of dating, it's trying to be attractive, confident, and interesting to the other party (your potential mate).

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

Dating just seems so complicated to me. It's much easier to just say "**** it all, I'm single for life!"

Yes, I do ask them out as soon as I realize they like me. I thought that was the appropriate thing to do?

So let me get this straight...if I ask out too soon, I get rejected, and if I ask out too late, I get rejected?

What is the appropriate time to ask her out? I have asked this question numerous times, on at least 4 other relationship message forums, and nobody will give me a straight answer.

Oh believe me I find it complicated too!

The reason it's hard to answer that is that you need to gauge it with whoever you're with at the time.

Asking straight away is a bad idea - you're pressuring the girl. Aim for comfort instead, just make her happy to be around you without any ulterior intentions.

If she starts snuggling up to you or spending a lot of time with you (I.E. reciprocating clearly, in a more-than-friendly way), that's when you then ask the girl out.

If she doesn't, you know she's not for you and you can move on. Either that or she's possibly very shy, in which case you can try asking.

Peter Lorre gave a really good post in this thread - just be yourself, don't rush and try to use your intuition to figure out what a girl is feeling.

 

[AFrozenSoul]

So another question pops into my mind. A lot of times on this forum I see guys asking why no girl wants them. They will write some sob story about how women just do not like them or how they just cannot say the right thing. However, when someone recommends a PUA book as a solution. The book is instantly discredited. I kind of wonder why that is. I mean yes it takes away the mystical nature of relationships. However, at the same time it gives you the answers you seek. Well it gives potential answers. Which is better than having no answers.

Personally I think that more guys on this forum should embrace the PUA ways. Because I know many of us are so desperate that we cannot distinguish between authentic love and desperation love. Most of us just want to have someone so badly that we will turn our feelings from hatred or disgust into love because holy crap we managed to get a woman. However, if you are good enough to get any woman you want. Then you can really find that girl who you really want. I am pretty sure there are PUA manuals for women too. I recommend the females on these forums read those as well.

@Peter Lorre: You know I always kind of laugh when people ask the "real you question". Are humans not allowed to grow and change? Can a human not discover a new interest later on in life and adopt it and make it a part of the real me? Who is to say what the real me is?

You do know that the PUA world is divided up into many segments. The primary two segments are the Day game and the Night Game. The night game is what the world commonly sees. However, there are entire books dedicated to picking up girls in common social settings. Most of the time the day game is considered more important than the night game. The night game just helps you get out there and build your confidence a bit.

I also have to ask you this question. What good does going to a hunting ground do if you do not know how to hunt? Everyone on this forum can say that you will meet someone if you do stuff you enjoy doing. However, everyone seems to forget that if you do not know how to show interest you will not get any. Yes I know that these days women are more willing to be the aggressor. However, that is if she has no one else showing interest. Most people will just go with what they know. You can meet a sweet and innocent shy girl of your dreams. However, if you do not show that romantic and sexual interest. She won't think you are interested. If she doesn't think you are interested she will turn off her attraction to you.

 

[SophiaGrace]

They have liked me, and known that I liked them. They still don't want to make the first move.

Out of interest, do you ask a girl out or try making it evident the minute you realise she sort of likes you and you like her?

Because lots of girls will get kind of worried, back off and do the "You're a nice guy..." thing if you do that.

What you want to do is work on expanding her desire for you without explicitly stating anything to her regarding relationships.

Before you actually go out, a girl displaying mutual attraction is kind of like a good friend that you find sexually attractive, right?

Realise that girls in that situation probably see you the same way - and just want to be relaxed into being comfortable with you. For this reason you just have to act like a good friend, but step it up ever so slightly when need be.

Hang out with her as a friend, make her laugh, talk to her, show her you're nice. Then, when she needs help with something, go just slightly out of your way to help her. Or, if you're in close proximity, just let your hand "accidentally" rest against hers for a little bit or something every now and then.

This way you don't pressure a girl at all (preventing that sort of awkward "friendzone" rejection), but you make yourself more and more attractive to her.

At least, that's how I've always tried to do it - my problem has always been taking the next step of asking a girl out. Actually getting close to girls is not too difficult if you're gentle like that, I firmly believe any nice bloke can do it without needing cheesy PUA tips

This is the type of guy i want to date.

---

Oh believe me I find it complicated too!

The reason it's hard to answer that is that you need to gauge it with whoever you're with at the time.

Asking straight away is a bad idea - you're pressuring the girl. Aim for comfort instead, just make her happy to be around you without any ulterior intentions.

If she starts snuggling up to you or spending a lot of time with you (I.E. reciprocating clearly, in a more-than-friendly way), that's when you then ask the girl out.

If she doesn't, you know she's not for you and you can move on. Either that or she's possibly very shy, in which case you can try asking.

This.

o_o

Guys stop blathering about PUA manuals and take solitary's advice.

---

besides i really wonder why people don't just read "Relationships for Dummies" or "Dating for dummies" instead of going directly to PUA manuals.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

Everyone needs to stop worrying about PUA manuals in general. Ridiculous books worth nothing more than toilet paper to set a "standard" of man that women don't even want. Instead of investing in a delusion that women want this, that, and the next, just set your sights on a girl and find out what SHE wants. The problem here is desperation and the "any girl will do" attitude. Girls don't like to be pigeonholed with all the other girls just 'cause some guy wants to get his **** wet for once. If you think to yourself "I just want a girlfriend" instead of thinking "I have this girl I like..." then you don't need a girlfriend. What you need is a hooker, whore, and anyone else you can bribe or convince to give all the attention you want.
Jesus christ, just work on the rest of your life. Get a hobby, get a job, go to school, join a club. When you stop worrying about girls, you'll find a PERSON you want to be with and who may possibly want to be with you.
Also, inb4 all the "But I get dumped " ********. Characters don't mesh. People grow apart. It's a part of life. Both men AND women have to deal with the ups and downs of relationships. Either accept the fact or live forever in fear and hate of socialization and romance. Either way, that kind of "oh woe is me" mentality affects no one but you. Everyone else is wrapping their wounds and getting on with their lives.

That's how I feel about the entire PUA and dating subject in general.

 

[Barbaloot]

I second Soph's sentiments. It's nice to see that at least some individuals are capable of being reasonable.

 

[kamya]

I feel like if what Solitary does actually worked, he wouldn't be solitary.

From what I've read, a lot of PUA material is about getting rejected frequently and building confidence. Sure there are some gimmicky branches of PUA that teach pickup lines and techniques, but if anyone ever actually took the time to get farther than "half way through The Game", and actually tried some of it, they would quickly see that PUA is not about lies and manipulation, and more about building self confidence. If TSM had that then maybe he would be able to take it to the next step and actually ask a girl out some time.

I might not have luck in the romance/love department but if it comes to hooking up, it's really not that hard. The plus side is that when I am romantically interested in someone, I will never have the problem of being too afraid to ask them out. Rejection will always hurt though if its from someone like that. But, it's better than being afraid of something that may or may not happen.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

I feel like if what Solitary does actually worked, he wouldn't be solitary.

Low blow much? What Solitary said does work. His problem lies with an internal struggle of being less shy, not the way he approaches women. If a man approached me the way Solitary described, I would consider him sweet, earnest, and not too pushy. One thing I hate is to be HARASSED into a relationship just because the other party is lonely or likes me. To be honest, I don't give a ****, and I don't have to. The entire idea is to give the girl the freedom and space to develop a desire for you, not to attack her like a manbear with all that "newfound confidence". Yeah, confidence is key, and no girl likes to be with a spineless *******, but that doesn't mean to flex one's muscles every chance one gets. You don't need a book to tell you that.

Just like you're pushing people to try tips from that PUA manual, I say Solitary's advice is completely sound and if people tried it for once, they'd find favorable results.

 

[Ak5]

I agree completely with Solitary's statements.

 

[kamya]

I feel like if what Solitary does actually worked, he wouldn't be solitary.

Low blow much? What Solitary said does work. His problem lies with an internal struggle of being less shy, not the way he approaches women. If a man approached me the way Solitary described, I would consider him sweet, earnest, and not too pushy. One thing I hate is to be HARASSED into a relationship just because the other party is lonely or likes me. To be honest, I don't give a ****, and I don't have to. The entire idea is to give the girl the freedom and space to develop a desire for you, not to attack her like a manbear with all that "newfound confidence". Yeah, confidence is key, and no girl likes to be with a spineless *******, but that doesn't mean to flex one's muscles every chance one gets. You don't need a book to tell you that.

Just like you're pushing people to try tips from that PUA manual, I say Solitary's advice is completely sound and if people tried it for once, they'd find favorable results.

That's not a low blow at all. He admitted it himself that his problem is when it comes to realizing a girl is interested in him and then asking her out. If he had more confidence don't you think he would have more luck? And yeah what he does will make a girl think he is sweet and probably make her more willing to give him a chance, but that's all really. Just being yourself and being around someone and being nice to them isn't going to make them have feelings for you. This I know from experience.

 

[Ak5]

Everyone has issues that they're dealing with, or else this site would never exist. All his points clearly coincide with my personal beliefs as well; he has the right mindset in place. So why not take advice from that?

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

I feel like if what Solitary does actually worked, he wouldn't be solitary.

Low blow much? What Solitary said does work. His problem lies with an internal struggle of being less shy, not the way he approaches women. If a man approached me the way Solitary described, I would consider him sweet, earnest, and not too pushy. One thing I hate is to be HARASSED into a relationship just because the other party is lonely or likes me. To be honest, I don't give a ****, and I don't have to. The entire idea is to give the girl the freedom and space to develop a desire for you, not to attack her like a manbear with all that "newfound confidence". Yeah, confidence is key, and no girl likes to be with a spineless *******, but that doesn't mean to flex one's muscles every chance one gets. You don't need a book to tell you that.

Just like you're pushing people to try tips from that PUA manual, I say Solitary's advice is completely sound and if people tried it for once, they'd find favorable results.

That's not a low blow at all. He admitted it himself that his problem is when it comes to realizing a girl is interested in him and then asking her out. If he had more confidence don't you think he would have more luck?

Um, it is a low blow when you say that "if what Solitary does actually worked, he wouldn't be solitary," implying that his entire advice was invalid. What he admitted was that he's too shy to ask a girl out. That is a completely reasonable setback and it does not discredit his advice.

What men of ALL have a problem of is not just shyness. It's not knowing how to approach a woman altogether. It's not thinking about the woman and only thinking about his own feelings about the woman. It's being generally unpleasant and expecting women to overlook that just because he doesn't want to change himself. Sometimes, it's a combination of ALL of these.

Anyway, as far as I see, Solitary has had more luck than many men here. Note that he says that women DO become interested in him, even if he is shy. Most men of ALL can't even get THAT far.

 

[Barbaloot]

I feel like if what Solitary does actually worked, he wouldn't be solitary.

Low blow much? What Solitary said does work. His problem lies with an internal struggle of being less shy, not the way he approaches women. If a man approached me the way Solitary described, I would consider him sweet, earnest, and not too pushy. One thing I hate is to be HARASSED into a relationship just because the other party is lonely or likes me. To be honest, I don't give a ****, and I don't have to. The entire idea is to give the girl the freedom and space to develop a desire for you, not to attack her like a manbear with all that "newfound confidence". Yeah, confidence is key, and no girl likes to be with a spineless *******, but that doesn't mean to flex one's muscles every chance one gets. You don't need a book to tell you that.

Just like you're pushing people to try tips from that PUA manual, I say Solitary's advice is completely sound and if people tried it for once, they'd find favorable results.

Indeed. There is only one problem with Solitary's advice - it requires finding a woman who can actually tolerate your presence, and this, unfortunately, is beyond the reach of many men I have encountered. And then they wonder why they're single.


And I meant that 'your' as a general 'your', directed at no one in particular.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

Indeed. There is only one problem with Solitary's advice - it requires finding a woman who can actually tolerate your presence, and this, unfortunately, is beyond the reach of many men I have encountered. And then they wonder why they're single.


And I meant that 'your' as a general 'your', directed at no one in particular.

Absolutely. If you're going to be a miserable, intolerable, introverted prick, no one's going to want to be with you. No one SHOULD be with you. That's what's called a toxic relationship.

No, people shouldn't change their character to fit a status quo, but there's nothing wrong with assessing one's attitude and changing it to become a little more approachable.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

I feel like if what Solitary does actually worked, he wouldn't be solitary.

This would have been a very fair point in the recent past, but two weeks ago a girl asked me out after I'd spent time with her in the exact way I describe here.

Our date is scheduled for when we both finally get some free time soon, I'm very much looking forward to it

As Doubt summed up very concisely, my problem has always been with my own lack of self-esteem - I never feel like I'm good enough for a girl, even if she seems really interested in me. Thus I've always been single and lonely.

But that's changing now, and I just wanted to share my experiences with the hope of helping the OP

Thanks to everyone that appreciated my ramblings

From what I've read, a lot of PUA material is about getting rejected frequently and building confidence.

And that's a good thing - anything that builds confidence is useful.

I just dislike that the way "PUA doctrine" focuses on that is usually to plug a man's egotistical side rather than address his self confidence issues directly. My opinion on it, anyway.

 

[Barbaloot]

Enjoy your date, Solitary.