Incels - A Symptom of Sick Social System

[ardour]

I don't think there are any feasible societal changes that could reverse the trend because it's all just tinkering at the margins. Government can incentive monogamy and having children, but at the end of the day women have to want to settle down with unremarkable men. In the past they were forced to rely on such men for support and maybe protection. That's no longer the case and there's no returning to that without removing rights and freedoms.

As weird as it might sound AI companions might be the answer. Maybe men's support groups, some kind of bonding that doesn't involve finding an "enemy." Anything else to focus on.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

I don't think there are any feasible societal changes that could reverse the trend because all just tinkering at the margins. In the past women were forced to rely on a man for support and maybe protection. "Nice enough is good enough" allowed less attractive, not particularly successful men into the dating/marriage club. That's no longer the case and there's no returning to a restrictive socially conservative past without removing rights and freedoms.

As weird and creepy as it might sound AI companions might be the answer. Also men's support groups, or some kind of bonding that doesn't center around finding an "enemy." Other things for them to focus on. (Maybe anti-depressents in the water supply?)

Still a long way to go. Did you see Tesla's robot? It looks retarded especially in the context if you compare its movement to the dances of Boston Dynamics or the AI of the robot of that jewish guy with the hippie hat who works in Hong Kong. Yet none of these 3 is remotely close to a "sexy woman". In the future however a female-looking robot will easily exceed human in every way imaginable just like chess programs beat with ease Magnus Carlsen and Kasparov.

 

[Hereward87]

Ever since I was a very young boy, I have been told multiple times that no woman would ever want me, and then when I can't succeed with women these same people will turn around and start telling me what an utterly inadequate human being I am and basically almost taking a kind of malevolent pleasure in my failure in life ( i.e. schadenfreude ). I feel like I have been set up to fail. It's like breaking a horse's legs and then kicking the horse because it can't get up. These kind of situations are happening to lots of young men. I think that the elites are deliberately creating a dysfunctional society. The Motto of the Freemasons after all is "order out of chaos". To be perfectly honest I think these global elites want to breed White people out of existence by forcing us to mate with other ethnicities. Type "Sarkozy Metissage" into Youtube. They freely admit that they want to breed white european people out of existence. Noel Ignatiev said that if you are a white male you need to be systemically destroyed, if you are a white woman you can get pregnant by a black man. Noel Ignatiev literally said that the best thing a straight white man can do is kill himself. This situation which society is in has been deliberately incited.

 

[ardour]

Still a long way to go. Did you see Tesla's robot? It looks retarded especially in the context if you compare its movement to the dances of Boston Dynamics or the AI of the robot of that jewish guy with the hippie hat who works in Hong Kong. Yet none of these 3 is remotely close to a "sexy woman". In the future however a female-looking robot will easily exceed human in every way imaginable just like chess programs beat with ease Magnus Carlsen and Kasparov.

I was thinking more VR or hologram technology. There’s something dystopian about the thought of millions of young men sitting alone in their apartments in their underpants with a VR headset on.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

^ VR is interesting yet it's clearly a simulation so it can't be as immersive as a real robot, I guess as a best case scenario 10 or 20 years for a female-looking android isn't absurd. Yet robot predictions have been made for decades and always disappoint.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

Ever since I was a very young boy, I have been told multiple times that no woman would ever want me, and then when I can't succeed with women these same people will turn around and start telling me what an utterly inadequate human being I am and basically almost taking a kind of malevolent pleasure in my failure in life ( i.e. schadenfreude ). I feel like I have been set up to fail. It's like breaking a horse's legs and then kicking the horse because it can't get up. These kind of situations are happening to lots of young men. I think that the elites are deliberately creating a dysfunctional society. The Motto of the Freemasons after all is "order out of chaos". To be perfectly honest I think these global elites want to breed White people out of existence by forcing us to mate with other ethnicities. Type "Sarkozy Metissage" into Youtube. They freely admit that they want to breed white european people out of existence. Noel Ignatiev said that if you are a white male you need to be systemically destroyed, if you are a white woman you can get pregnant by a black man. Noel Ignatiev literally said that the best thing a straight white man can do is kill himself. This situation which society is in has been deliberately incited.

Well all true but on another note if you're very white and live in western europe you'd get tail of hordes of Taiwanese, Filipina, Hong Kong girls who are racists but also think you're racist and that you seem to like all Asians because they're easy and it's impossible to explain to them that you only like Japan for example for its language and not because "sukisuki 10$ bl0wjob". Those were the days before the current apocalypse I mean, before covid, recession and wars and when the EU had some prestige and I used to live in Italy, many chinese female tourists were annoying and many thought I'm one of those white Italian guys with eu passport.

 

[Hereward87]

Well all true but on another note if you're very white and live in western europe you'd get tail of hordes of Taiwanese, Filipina, Hong Kong girls who are racists but also think you're racist and that you seem to like all Asians because they're easy and it's impossible to explain to them that you only like Japan for example for its language and not because "sukisuki 10$ bl0wjob". Those were the days before the current apocalypse I mean, before covid, recession and wars and when the EU had some prestige and I used to live in Italy, many chinese female tourists were annoying and many thought I'm one of those white Italian guys with eu passport.

I seriously doubt any woman would want me. I have a problem with my bowels and I literally **** myself in the street, Like I can't even hold down a menial job these days. The way things are going for me I'm going to end up as a rough sleeper. The Government is probably going to take away my benefits at some point, at which point I will be ruined and in the gutter.

 

[Hereward87]

I seriously doubt any woman would want me. I have a problem with my bowels and I literally **** myself in the street, Like I can't even hold down a menial job these days. The way things are going for me I'm going to end up as a rough sleeper. The Government is probably going to take away my benefits at some point, at which point I will be ruined and in the gutter.

Also, I've got a small ****, so, in all seriousness, what woman is going to want me, realistically. And to top it all off, I think a lot of people are very happy that my life is in ruins.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

I seriously doubt any woman would want me. I have a problem with my bowels and I literally **** myself in the street, Like I can't even hold down a menial job these days. The way things are going for me I'm going to end up as a rough sleeper. The Government is probably going to take away my benefits at some point, at which point I will be ruined and in the gutter.

What's the name of you diagnosis? I've never heard about this issue with the guts, yet i know some men can't hold urine it's very common among adults the age of Joe Biden. In any case, horses for corses you know...even about the small dck - I've never liked girls with ******** so by that logic not everyone should want big penis...

 

[Hereward87]

I have the problem that a lot of people in San Francisco have. There are a lot of people in SF and Portland who have this problem as well.

 

[Hereward87]

Well all true but on another note if you're very white and live in western europe you'd get tail of hordes of Taiwanese, Filipina, Hong Kong girls who are racists but also think you're racist and that you seem to like all Asians because they're easy and it's impossible to explain to them that you only like Japan for example for its language and not because "sukisuki 10$ bl0wjob". Those were the days before the current apocalypse I mean, before covid, recession and wars and when the EU had some prestige and I used to live in Italy, many chinese female tourists were annoying and many thought I'm one of those white Italian guys with eu passport.

Well, I prefer Eat asian women to black women. At least East Asians are good at maths, I'm fairly good at maths as well so if I got with a Japanese or Chinese girl we might have really gifted kids at mathematics. Lol

 

[Cucuboth]

ok but a pu*** is a pu*** no matter who is the owner ... and if you want something more expensive then you got a meaning in life which is the core of the problem actually ... instead of working for a family you do it for pu*** if you genuinely love them

I lived my youth in a country with no access to prostitutes ... why do you guys from Western world complain ... are they that expensive? ... you are not aware you are so much luckier than in other parts of the world

Might be a shock, but not every guy wants to go to a prostitute. Some of us value and want an emotional connection, and don’t want to reduce intimacy and affection to just another product.

 

[user 189410]

There is still no solution.

Even if I earn enough to afford prostitutes it's not my option anymore: I've become too careful about my health and don't want to get a sexually transmitted disease.

 

[sufi-sol]

More blaming women for the feelings of men, essentially.

If a lack of a female partner was such a "serious" mental illness as you claim, then you wouldn't have celibate monks thriving in happiness and stability, living amongst themselves, many having never been around women in their entire lives save for their own mothers.

Instead of speaking about having sympathy towards these incels, why not hold them accountable? Does being lonely and depressed give people the right to wish violence upon an entire gender just because they don't have access to them?

Maybe there's a reason why they are single, and perhaps the problem is with their attitude or personality.

For one, not everyone is entitled to a partner, let alone sex.

Many of these men shouldn't be in relationships at all, until they work on themselves psychologically and spiritually.

Stop making women the crux upon which men need to stand in order to be healthy. A woman's job is not to save a man from his loneliness and sexual frustration, it is to be an equal partner in a relationship, both accommodating the other.

 

[user 189410]

More blaming women for the feelings of men, essentially.

If a lack of a female partner was such a "serious" mental illness as you claim, then you wouldn't have celibate monks thriving in happiness and stability, living amongst themselves, many having never been around women in their entire lives save for their own mothers.

Instead of speaking about having sympathy towards these incels, why not hold them accountable? Does being lonely and depressed give people the right to wish violence upon an entire gender just because they don't have access to them?

Maybe there's a reason why they are single, and perhaps the problem is with their attitude or personality.

For one, not everyone is entitled to a partner, let alone sex.

Many of these men shouldn't be in relationships at all, until they work on themselves psychologically and spiritually.

Stop making women the crux upon which men need to stand in order to be healthy. A woman's job is not to save a man from his loneliness and sexual frustration, it is to be an equal partner in a relationship, both accommodating the other.

No blaming. We just discuss the problem and try to understand what to do with it. But it seems there is no solution, so many men in the current world are just doomed.

Maybe a woman don't have to be a main goal for a man and men should learn how to live alone, but I still don't think that loneliness for entire life is good and happy.

 

[ardour]

More blaming women for the feelings of men, essentially.

If a lack of a female partner was such a "serious" mental illness as you claim, then you wouldn't have celibate monks thriving in happiness and stability, living amongst themselves, many having never been around women in their entire lives save for their own mothers.

Instead of speaking about having sympathy towards these incels, why not hold them accountable? Does being lonely and depressed give people the right to wish violence upon an entire gender just because they don't have access to them?

Maybe there's a reason why they are single, and perhaps the problem is with their attitude or personality.

For one, not everyone is entitled to a partner, let alone sex.

Many of these men shouldn't be in relationships at all, until they work on themselves psychologically and spiritually.

Stop making women the crux upon which men need to stand in order to be healthy. A woman's job is not to save a man from his loneliness and sexual frustration, it is to be an equal partner in a relationship, both accommodating the other.

Monks and priests are a tiny non-representative minority driven by dogmatic belief. An average individual would not be happy in a state of forced permanent singleness.

Easy to preach the benefits of the single life when you don't have to live it. I don't like them representing lonely men as a group, chances are most incels are teens going through a phase or older guys embracing the term ironically.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Monks and priests are a tiny non-representative minority driven by dogmatic belief. An average individual would not be happy in a state of forced permanent singleness.

Easy to preach the benefits of the single life when you don't have to live it. I don't like them representing lonely men as a group, chances are most incels are teens going through a phase or older guys embracing the term ironically.

It's just like how some people take a vow of poverty. Maybe they feel like it brings them closer to a higher power, but for most people, poverty is just misery without meaning.

Also I've heard of several instances of monks or priests breaking the rules and getting into sexual scandals, or gaming the system to have money and technology that they aren't really supposed to have. So that makes you think that maybe they aren't so happy with their celibacy or poverty after all. Personally I never bought into it - I think most people who claim to be happy with less, are just telling themselves that. Some people are better able to convince themselves than others.

And I agree with your last point about how the people telling other people to settle for the single life, usually don't have to live it themselves or apply the same standards to themselves. They're either in a relationship right now, or have been in one before and are sure they can get into one again. It comes off very aristocratic, like "those people should just resign themselves to hobbies/distractions/booze/porn/the single life, it should be good enough for them, but I would never".

There's also a strong "bully the nerds" vibe to it, too. Like a lot of guys complaining about loneliness are on the nerdy side. And sure, some, especially the younger ones, are obsessed with the hot women, whether they have anything in common with them or not. But I think a lot just want a normal life, which relationships are a part of - why are so many tv shows, movies, and music about it, if it wasn't a feeling that almost all people can relate to? But when people tell you to settle for the single life, it's like, "back in your place, loser". It's kind of like bullying all over again, people trying to put you back in the social place they think you should belong.

I don't know. I debated replying to this thread at all because all arguments on this either for or against, are all pretty much copy-pastes at this point. But the monk/priest thing bothers me, so it's worth refuting it.

 

[Diogenes]

As for what I DO think the answer is...

...on the policy end, the government could bring back an environment that made it easy to be in the middle-class, like in the 30 or so years after WW2, where the middle class, "just OK", "normal" as we know it, came to be. When they started attacking that, they really ****(ed) society in many ways. But bringing that back would mean the government would actually have to give a damn about its non-rich citizens, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

The other thing I can think to do has more to do with just day-to-day interactions between people - just making sure than men and women understand what they want and expect in each other, in this new world. I think a lot of the misery is caused by people not having all the information, and/or having bad/outdated/wrong information, and as a result not knowing how to think, act, and be in ways that are in line with what the other is looking for.

You have to be what women want in a man, but also in a way that's "you" at the same time. I struggle with this myself. It's a tough balancing act, hard for me to reconcile the two as I deal with my own self-doubt and indecision, plus the way I was raised, and my natural tendencies to be curious, warm, and friendly instead of cold, competitive, and macho. I just don't believe in the Darwinian world view, I don't believe in hierarchies, I don't believe in "human nature". I don't think it has to be this same old miserable way that's good for a few people that randomly have the right stuff to sort them to the top, and ****** for everyone else. If the system is ****** for you, why would you buy into it? What's in it for you? For me, I've always known it was nothing. So these ways of thinking never had any appeal for me.

In short, a lot of men don't seem to know what women are looking for in a man, and also how to meaningfully, emotionally connect with women on a deep level. I think anything short of that, is a non-answer. The problem is, not everyone just "gets it" instinctively.


PS - to be honest I'm not even that pissed, we've more or less been through all this before. Been there, done that.

Nature doesn't care whether you "believe in it" or not. Evolution is a fact, and the fact is, nature intends there to be very few males, for males to compete and literally kill each other off for the privilege of breeding the mass of females.

Every benefit you enjoy in life, including the device you are reading this on, is the result of cut throat competition. Men may not realize they are inventing or working in order to kill off other man and gain access to all the *****, but that is the essential reality of ambition, and it benefits humanity as a whole. Suffering of males is the basis of everything good in life.

Not liking something doesn't make it untrue.

A strong case can be made that civilization itself, and all of it's benefits, would be impossible without some form of slavery, even up to today, with "wage slaves", factories in China and Amazon warehouses. The Athenians who invented the concept of democracy based their economy on slave labor. Whether harsh or not, the net effect is progress, material wealth, the leisure and capital to build infrastructure and conduct research.

Your posts often include naive wishes that "the government" do something to fix problems. Government is nothing but a gang of thugs, a racket. They extort from the productive, keep a large slice for themselves and distribute the rest to the unworthy.

 

[Diogenes]

Involuntary Celibacy is an oxymoron. Celibacy is a choice made by those dedicating their lives to a, 'higher purpose.' So are there a bunch of people out there, forced into never being laid or having a girl friend, that they may serve a higher purpose? No.

Incel is a made up word, that contradicts itself; and therefor has no validity. And if a word makes no sense and has no validity, it's probably an indicator that what it speaks, 'too,' is filled with an equal amount of contradiction.

If some one robbed you of one of your kidneys, you could say something like you were an 'involuntary organ donor,' to try and sound clever. However, a donation is something that is freely given. So were you forced to freely do something you didn't want to do? No, that's contradictory language. You were robbed.

I concur, but sadly, language, like the rest of culture, is devolving.
Soon, grunts and hand gestures will be the only mode of discourse.

English is a ******* language, full of contradictions and constantly changing.
If the rules of grammar don't advance the cause of being understood,
people modify them.

There is no value in accuracy any more, the only thing valued is "you know what I mean".

It is true that a former prisoner is not an "ex con". After leaving prison, he still remains a person who was convicted. Yet it's shorthand, generally understood that ex con refers to a former prisoner.

I don't like this trend any better than you do. The internet has almost completely ruined my ability to spell and use grammar correctly. I used to take pride in my vocabulary, my composition skills.

Suddenly culture shifted. Now everything I posted online got this response: TL/DR.
People with nothing of any significance going on in their lives, persons so idle that they were wasting time online instead of performing their jobs, took the attitude that they didn't have time to digest my posts.

https://www.unifon.org/pages/rationale.html

 

[Diogenes]

t

This video is a pretty good watch, but it articulates what I've been saying for a while...

Incels are men with serious mental health issues that are the product of a sick social system.

Quick example to illustrate this. At my job one guy is designated with the task of restocking all the store's inventory. As the store grew and sold more and more merchandise, this one guy became overwhelmed by the increase of merchandise that needed to be put away everyday. Unable to keep up and overwhelmed his attitude soured. He started to clash with other store employees and even did things like block key isles with merchandise he was unable to stock as sort of a way of venting his frustration and anger. It was a clear cry for help.

When I brought this up to management, their response was "he needs to stop complaining, work harder, and do his job." It was completely unsympathetic and showed a total disregard to the new, harsh, seemingly insurmountable situation the employee was facing.

The same can be said of incels. Their rise and anger is the product of a broken social system that refuses to acknowledge or sympathize with their plight. Because they are men fueled by testosterone, they're statistically more likely to lash out in a dangerous, violent way. The sad part that gets overlooked is most of this violence is directed inward. Suicide is very real and disturbingly common among incels. While their attacks against women are highlighted almost nothing is said about how many of these men are committing suicide, because like the stocker at my store, people simply don't care. And incels are acutely aware of that.

The core issue is with the advent of social media and dating apps most women can now get male attention or even sex quite easily - from a small percentage of "high value" men" but most "low value" men can't, with any woman. This has created a disturbing discrepancy between how many women can find attention/sex vs how many men can find attention/sex. Not to mention a huge increase in STDs, but that's another topic. There's countless studies about how men handle being single worse then women, and so on. Basically, for most men to be mentally healthy, they need a female partner in their life.

Inceldom is a serious mental health issue. There's too many people writing it off as 'weird, crazy loner men'. To illustrate lets say one day you noticed on your body large black bumps filled with puss. Would you simply say 'ewww!' and try to pop the bumps or even just ignore them? Or would you be concerned in what caused the bumps in the first place, what was the underlining illness that caused them to form? You see, dismissing incels with 'ewww! go away!' is not treating the underlining problem. Doing so will not fix the situation and it likely will get worse.

The sad part is because incels are primarily men the issue will get little to no attention. Everyone is so concerned with women that men have largely been forgotten. Everyone knows most suicides are men, but people really don't care and little is done about it because its men, and men are suppose to just toughen up and deal with their problems.

So, what is the solution to incels?

This is where it gets sad. I honestly think nothing can be done. There's no way to roll back apps that promote hookup culture. No way to censor or shut down social medial that allows women to objectify themselves for attention. No way to shut down porn that men can pay for to have a woman pretend to be their girlfriend.

What faces the world is a bleak future of single, unhappy men and women, along with declining populations leading to economic ruin. Not to mention increasingly frequent violent attacks on the general population by angry lonely men.

But...if I were to try and do something to fix this, I would give huge tax breaks and incentives to couples who marry in their 20s. Basically try and get younger people to commit to eachother. By doing that you take more people off the market so there isnt as many choices for men or women which will force prospectors to be less picky in choosing a mate. Also by encouraging people to settle down with a marriage partner earlier you increase the chances of them having more children, which helps the population. Basically something has to be done to get more people to marry younger. The whole thing about making more women career workers who dont marry and have children sounded so cool and contemporary on paper but its been a complete failure that has caused all kinds of chaos.

This won't completely solve the problem, but solutions like that and something similar will be enough to avert whats coming. Disaster.

When things go bad, nature finds a way to destroy and begin again.

I heard the most appalling radio feature about a state program that required
single mothers on welfare to attend a parenting class. A participant said, "Ah didnts knows that ah could gets mah kids to behave with out hitten 'em!"

Seriously? We require people to have a license to drive a vehicle, carry a handgun, be a pharmacist, a doctor, a lawyer.......but any moron is allowed, even encouraged, to have kids
without having to demonstrate they're competent to raise them?

What is the point of life if not to advance as a species? Earth is finite. Shouldn't we decide now how many people, and what sort of people, we want?

We can leave it to random events to control population. War, famine, disease, poverty, pollution. We can slap band aids on symptoms.

Or we can address the disease itself, once and for all.

Would it be an easy task to design and plan the next steps in human evolution? No, but the alternative is far worse.