Questions for the Men

[TheSkaFish]

Question... Women with tattoos, is that seen as undesirable? Just heard that from Youtube University that women with a lot of tattoos will find it hard to find a man of value later in life.

I don't think so. In fact I'd say that as tattoos and piercings and such become more mainstream, this is less of an issue than ever, and only going to become even less over time.

I used to...not be a fan of such things. Now I'm indifferent. It took me a while to realize how and why personality/mind are #1, but now I get it.

You have to be careful with YouTube University. Some of it is informative, but some of it is just as bad as Trump University.


(As a side note I feel like "man of value" is kind of problematic...

I thought we were supposed to treat all people - except those who throw their value away, like heinous criminals - as inherently valuable?

If some men are more valuable than others, presumably for things like money and power, are some women more valuable than others too, for things like looks?

It's a slippery slope, I feel.)

It was a Youtube short, thanks to all my research into incels and the manosphere lol

I mean it's one thing if you want to understand that stuff, but you have to realize that a lot of that stuff is like a game of telephone - the stuff they say isn't necessarily true, it's just been passed around so much that it's kind of grown legs of its own.

A lot of that stuff, I feel, are just people trying to say things to one-up each other for shock value/offensiveness like school-age kids do, or people saying edgy things out of despair or frustration, taking out their issues on something, but they don't really feel it that much.

That's just my impression of it.

 

[TheRealCallie]

If a man is going to turn you down just because you have a tattoo, is he really someone you would want? A "man of value" isn't going to try to run your life or tell you what you can or can't do. Now if you want to cover your entire body in tats, that might be a different story, but otherwise I think you would be fine. If a guy really likes you, even if he doesn't like tattoos, he will overlook it.

My nephew's ex once told him that if he got a tattoo, she would never let him touch her again. He got one anyway. She was just trying to manipulate him.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I think tats are really an individual thing. I know men who hate them and then I also know men who love them.

Why on earth are you researching incels?

I research different ideals and ideologies, I was led there after looking into Feminism, the Youtube algorithm is a little ironic. Since finding that subculture, my outlook on the world is very different... I changed some things about myself for the better I think...

You have to be careful with YouTube University. Some of it is informative, but some of it is just as bad as Trump University.

This made me laugh actually lol You're very correct.

(As a side note I feel like "man of value" is kind of problematic...

I thought we were supposed to treat all people - except those who throw their value away, like heinous criminals - as inherently valuable?

If some men are more valuable than others, presumably for things like money and power, are some women more valuable than others too, for things like looks?

It's a slippery slope, I feel.)

It's interesting as "high value/ man of value" terms are MGTOW and pick-up artists language, and yes they believe a woman's true value is determined by her looks/youth... things that fade, whereas a mans value can be preserved with smart financial moves. Thats the whole concept from my understanding.

A lot of that stuff, I feel, are just people trying to say things to one-up each other for shock value/offensiveness like school-age kids do, or people saying edgy things out of despair or frustration, taking out their issues on something, but they don't really feel it that much.

That's just my impression of it.

I completely agree with this impression, I think its because it can make you Youtube famous over night and very successful if you say something really shocking.

 

[ewomack]

Do you think you could be with someone maybe who never works, or works but doesn't take it seriously as its more a bit of fun that an actual requirement to a full life?

I don't care if someone else doesn't take their job seriously, though I try to find jobs that have some meaning for me so I feel like I'm doing more than just punching a clock. Not working is another story altogether. As usual, it depends on why they don't work. Are they independently wealthy or retired? Are they on some kind of disability? The possibilities go on and on. But if a person doesn't want to work and wants to live off of me while I work, that would eventually become a problem for me, unless we had some arrangement. I would also want my spouse to want to have her own career, directions, goals, etc.

The middle class tradition of the man being "the provider" while the woman stays home has mostly disappeared these days, except when daycare costs more than one person's salary, which appears to happen most of the time. But the tradition still seems to linger, as I've never talked to a man, young or old, who had deep concerns about the employability of the women that he dates. Some still have "trophy wife" fantasies, or at least that's how I interpret some of the discussions I've had, even recently. To me, it seems like the wife becomes more of an object, another thing to "show off to the guys," in these situations.

At one point in history, a wife that didn't need to work, who wore impractically fancy clothes and "looked pretty" all day, was a status symbol and a sign of wealth for a man. At another point, not too long ago, women gave up a lot of their independence to become housewives and mothers and more or less lived as shadows of their husbands. You can see it on television shows from the 1950s and 1960s when men get asked "would you have a problem with your wife continuing to work after marriage?" Many answer "yes" as if the wife should have no say in it. I don't doubt that some men would like to live that way today. I'm only going on like this as a possible explanation as to why some men don't seem concerned about women working. There is a long tradition to overcome here, and it still seems present to some degree today.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I don't care if someone else doesn't take their job seriously, though I try to find jobs that have some meaning for me so I feel like I'm doing more than just punching a clock. Not working is another story altogether. As usual, it depends on why they don't work. Are they independently wealthy or retired? Are they on some kind of disability? The possibilities go on and on. But if a person doesn't want to work and wants to live off of me while I work, that would eventually become a problem for me, unless we had some arrangement. I would also want my spouse to want to have her own career, directions, goals, etc.

The middle class tradition of the man being "the provider" while the woman stays home has mostly disappeared these days, except when daycare costs more than one person's salary, which appears to happen most of the time. But the tradition still seems to linger, as I've never talked to a man, young or old, who had deep concerns about the employability of the women that he dates. Some still have "trophy wife" fantasies, or at least that's how I interpret some of the discussions I've had, even recently. To me, it seems like the wife becomes more of an object, another thing to "show off to the guys," in these situations.

At one point in history, a wife that didn't need to work, who wore impractically fancy clothes and "looked pretty" all day, was a status symbol and a sign of wealth for a man. At another point, not too long ago, women gave up a lot of their independence to become housewives and mothers and more or less lived as shadows of their husbands. You can see it on television shows from the 1950s and 1960s when men get asked "would you have a problem with your wife continuing to work after marriage?" Many answer "yes" as if the wife should have no say in it. I don't doubt that some men would like to live that way today. I'm only going on like this as a possible explanation as to why some men don't seem concerned about women working. There is a long tradition to overcome here, and it still seems present to some degree today.

This is the peek behind the glass I've longed for, I agree with everything... Only thing I'd probably add is to the line "I don't doubt that some men would like to live that way today". I also don't doubt a lot of women would wanna go back to this, in fact the trophy wife is the fantasy of so many, the footballers wife or you know...

Deffo different generations and even a class difference to some degree, my mum, wouldn't dream of working, I wanted to work to prove a point but she still believes there is no place for women in the world of work and my nana says the same. When people asked me what my mother did, I was always taken back, like she's a dance and yoga teacher but its more of a hobby lol

 

[TheSkaFish]

It's interesting as "high value/ man of value" terms are MGTOW and pick-up artists language, and yes they believe a woman's true value is determined by her looks/youth... things that fade, whereas a mans value can be preserved with smart financial moves. Thats the whole concept from my understanding.

Yeah, I've read a little of what MGTOW and pick-up artists are about, just to understand it, also - like you were doing.

The way they think, that was always like, the "politics" of school. And it always seemed morally wrong and backwards to me, because so much of if you were a strong and/or rich guy, or a hot girl (who were usually established in the middle to upper class as well) - the things which seemed to be what determined if you were "popular"/attractive or not - seemed to be more of a result of the random chance/dumb luck of what you were born with, more than anything else.

I can't say I agree with it, it seems to go against everything I was taught and grew up believing was right. It also seems more about using people, than in developing relationships and feelings.

This made me laugh actually lol You're very correct.

Good to know - I'm glad my work on being more clever, is working!

 

[TheSkaFish]

Do you think you could be with someone maybe who never works, or works but doesn't take it seriously as its more a bit of fun that an actual requirement to a full life?

It would be hard. I mean, if I was making enough where money wasn't an issue, then I wouldn't care. But since that's pretty hard to do, I don't know if I could ever be in a position to support a housewife even if I wanted to.

It's not that I have an almost religious reverence for capitalism and productivity that so many people seem to have these days. I actually think people could have MORE full lives, if we didn't have to work - since it seems like most people are forced to work on whatever is their best chance at making the most profit, as opposed to following their interests and curiosity. It's too bad that our society doesn't really prioritize self-actualization.

I just don't think the old "man works, woman stays at home" way of doing things, is feasible for most people in the modern world.

 

[Colster]

Question... Women with tattoos, is that seen as undesirable? Just heard that from Youtube University that women with a lot of tattoos will find it hard to find a man of value later in life.

I think it's a personal thing, some guys do, and possibly in some areas, guys don't. I'm personally not keen on a younger woman who is covered, simply because they still have a lot of life still to lead, and stories potentially to tell. But their body goes straight to the last page of the story.

Similarly too, I don't understand the need for numerous tattoos that have no correlation between each other. Just numerous random tattoos dotted about the body, for the sake of having some tattoos.

I will also confess to being quite snobbish about the subject, as I appreciate the application as much as the artwork, and even more so if it has a relevant story behind it. Once you start looking, you'll notice people wearing a lot of high street flash, badly applied, meaningless, and without any flare.

Again though, it's highly personal, and what one person may choose to wear throughout life, might not suit or agree with another. But always, always, ALWAYS, build a good relationship with your artist.

 

[Finished]

Question... Women with tattoos, is that seen as undesirable? Just heard that from Youtube University that women with a lot of tattoos will find it hard to find a man of value later in life.

You mean Tramp Stamps? Ha! ha! There's a reason for that name. From my interminglings with different people, small tattoos are kind of cool and adds a touch of wild to just about any status woman. But, when women start inking all over it's viewed as kind of trashy and lower class. Famous women are able to get away with it because they are famous and trashy adds to the fame.

However, IMO, some women can pull off more envolved quality tattoos. But, large crappy tattoos are just crappy.

My advice is to not get a tattoo. It's always a concern if the person is using a serilezed equipment or not. They may say they are. But, you aren't going to a doctor to get a tattoo you're going to an artist at best. If I was ever going to do it I would have to supply my own ink and needles. They double dip the ink from other people and nobody really talks about that. But, if they double dip into the salsa with their chip they'll be pissed.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Yeah, I've read a little of what MGTOW and pick-up artists are about, just to understand it, also - like you were doing.

The way they think, that was always like, the "politics" of school. And it always seemed morally wrong and backwards to me, because so much of if you were a strong and/or rich guy, or a hot girl (who were usually established in the middle to upper class as well) - the things which seemed to be what determined if you were "popular"/attractive or not - seemed to be more of a result of the random chance/dumb luck of what you were born with, more than anything else.

I can't say I agree with it, it seems to go against everything I grew up believing was right. It also seems more about using people, than in developing relationships and feelings.



Good to know - I'm glad my work on being more clever, is working!

You know, yes I agree with the high school politics statement, I think thats why I found a common ground with it, the concept wasn't all wrong as even my school had this reality. It is an awful system but many would prefer it that way, as it's simple to understand and has nothing to do with individuality. Its i'm rich man I get hot younger girl, and I'd love to say there's no truth to that but its deffo not a lie.
Most men know it's not a lie, you can go to (insert 3rd world country here) right now, with what "little/large" you have and find the most beautiful women who would marry you for some security. Thats the reality of this crappy world.

I think its also the image celebrities push, I watched Wolf of Wall Street and when he left his wife that helped him for the "blonde trophy" it revealed that there was an expectation, that when you become rich and only then, you can expect a woman that looks like that, otherwise, you have to settle for the brunette no ones. My co worker used to say, if she won the lottery she wouldn't tell her partner, she'd share the money but she wouldn't tell him, as im sure she expects him to run off with a trophy

It would be hard. I mean, if I was making enough where money wasn't an issue, then I wouldn't care. But since that's pretty hard to do, I don't know if I could ever be in a position to support a housewife even if I wanted to.

It's not that I have an almost religious reverence for capitalism and productivity that so many people seem to have these days. I actually think people could have MORE full lives, if we didn't have to work - since it seems like most people are forced to work on whatever is their best chance at making the most profit, as opposed to following their interests and curiosity. It's too bad that our society doesn't really prioritize self-actualization.

I just don't think the old "man works, woman stays at home" way of doing things, is feasible for most people in the modern world.

Honestly, I date older men, I have never even spoken to one that couldn't provide for me, this whole concept that a man couldn't provide for me in the modern world is not something I understand. I've never seen it in the men that want to date me anyway. I think if I tried to date a man my own age, I'd probably be too advanced financially, as most are living with their parents with a terrible salary.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I think it's a personal thing, some guys do, and possibly in some areas, guys don't. I'm personally not keen on a younger woman who is covered, simply because they still have a lot of life still to lead, and stories potentially to tell. But their body goes straight to the last page of the story.

Similarly too, I don't understand the need for numerous tattoos that have no correlation between each other. Just numerous random tattoos dotted about the body, for the sake of having some tattoos.

I will also confess to being quite snobbish about the subject, as I appreciate the application as much as the artwork, and even more so if it has a relevant story behind it. Once you start looking, you'll notice people wearing a lot of high street flash, badly applied, meaningless, and without any flare.

Again though, it's highly personal, and what one person may choose to wear throughout life, might not suit or agree with another. But always, always, ALWAYS, build a good relationship with your artist.

This tattoo is beautifulllll omg!!!

 

[CenotaphGirl]

You mean Tramp Stamps? Ha! ha! There's a reason for that name. From my interminglings with different people, small tattoos are kind of cool and adds a touch of wild to just about any status woman. But, when women start inking all over it's viewed as kind of trashy and lower class. Famous women are able to get away with it because they are famous and trashy adds to the fame.

However, IMO, some women can pull off more envolved quality tattoos. But, large crappy tattoos are just crappy.

My advice is to not get a tattoo. It's always a concern if the person is using a serilezed equipment or not. They may say they are. But, you aren't going to a doctor to get a tattoo you're going to an artist at best. If I was ever going to do it I would have to supply my own ink and needles. They double dip the ink from other people and nobody really talks about that. But, if they double dip into the salsa with their chip they'll be pissed.

Ugh must you always make me laugh, I wasn't talking about tramp stamps lool

You know!! I was wondering if they change the needle after every client.

 

[Finished]

Ugh must you always make me laugh, I wasn't talking about tramp stamps lool

You know!! I was wondering if they change the needle after every client.

It depends. But, I'm sure many don't. They probably just clean them with some alcohol and think good enough.

 

[TheSkaFish]

It is an awful system but many would prefer it that way

It's just like politics, I think. A lot of people think they want it this way, because they think they're going to be on top one day. It's like I was saying in the "Pet Peeves" thread recently where hierarchical thinking is one of my peeves. From an early age, I didn't believe that people who are stronger/richer/etc were "better" than me. Just luckier. It could just as easily have been me that was born into it. A lot of it is random chance

Most men know it's not a lie, you can go to (insert 3rd world country here) right now, with what "little/large" you have and find the most beautiful women who would marry you for some security. Thats the reality of this crappy world.

That might be true but it has zero appeal to me. I mean, sure, I'm looking for a sex partner, that's part of what I'm after. But I'm also looking for someone who will also be my friend, someone I enjoy talking to, spending time with, someone I could see myself opening up to and being myself around, someone I could see myself wanting to learn more about, someone I could see myself caring about, someone I'd want to live with every day.

If they can't do that stuff for me, then it really doesn't matter how hot they are. They're just like the hot girls from school growing up - we had nothing in common, nothing to talk about. Nothing to bring us together.
But if they can do that stuff for me, then even if they aren't a traditional "hot girl", I find my attraction to them increases.

As for the Wolf of Wall Street stuff, or your co-worker's story - to me it sounds like people who got into relationships with people they weren't crazy about in the first place, if it's so easy to leave them behind once a little money comes into play.

Honestly, I date older men, I have never even spoken to one that couldn't provide for me, this whole concept that a man couldn't provide for me in the modern world is not something I understand. I've never seen it in the men that want to date me anyway. I think if I tried to date a man my own age, I'd probably be too advanced financially, as most are living with their parents with a terrible salary.

See, I think we're just from different worlds I'm from mainstream suburban America. People around here are usually educated, but not truly wealthy. Maybe there are some stay-at home wives around here, but it's not common. A lot of women over here also seem to want their own educations and careers anyway. I think it's a class and cultural difference.

 

[TheRealCallie]

You know!! I was wondering if they change the needle after every client.

Legally, they are supposed to, whether they do or not, I couldn't tell you. The three tattoo artists I know all do. Tattoo shops get health inspections too.

 

[Colster]

Ugh must you always make me laugh, I wasn't talking about tramp stamps lool

You know!! I was wondering if they change the needle after every client.

a quality artist will show you the process and preparation. Depending upon the artwork, several different sized needles will be used. But prior to this, they will be packages and opened in front off you. Likewise, the gun will be wrapped in a fresh protective coating, and all surface areas wiped with alcohol. A decent UK artist should also ask for id, and also for you to sign a consent form.

whether the process is painful, is like asking how long is a piece of string. I have always enjoyed it. Although, the first seconds do scratch a wee bit. That could be worrying to the uninitiated.

Prices vary dramatically. In my area, the better artists average around £80 per hour. For this, you should expect a good artist who will not only produce the image that you want, but also apply it in a quality manner, and should be able to make free hand adaptations, should you so desire them.

 

[ardour]

Does it even mean anything? And if it does will that meaning make you cringe when you're 30? If someone just seems to be getting tattooed up to be trendy, then yeah, that implies a lack of self-respect. Heavy coverage tattoos on women, especially neck or chest area don't really do it for me. Makes people look like they're wearing a turtleneck.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Question... Women with tattoos, is that seen as undesirable? Just heard that from Youtube University that women with a lot of tattoos will find it hard to find a man of value later in life.

I played in local metal bands for 17 years, so tattoos kinda just come with the territory. I only have 1, but I mean, no, I don't find that unattractive on a woman. It's not really something I fetishize, either. It's kinda just, well, when you're in alternative subculture for a long enough time eventually it just becomes so normal to you that you totally forget that it even is an alternative subculture to some people. People with tattoos is as normal to me as the grass being green and the sky being blue.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Okay okay, this question is from my actual life, but im asking for a friend. Disclaimer it kinda involves race... a little bit... So I have this friend, and she's into the finer things in life, posh dinners and travelling, her boyfriend is... working class and embarrassed to be around "posh white people" so embarrassed that he wouldn't even get breakfast at a hotel, because he had to walk into a room full of "posh white people" So she had to go into the room and get it for him!! Like a massive chip on his shoulder. She wants to approach the issue without offending him, like still make him feel like a man but pull him up on it, but how?

My question is as men, if your girlfriend wanted to approach a sensitive issue with you, how would you want her to go about it? Do you think its normal for a man to act this way?

 

[TogetherAlone]

Honestly I am not a mind reader nor am I good at guessing stuff I'd rather she told me flat out she had things she wanted to discuss with me but hopefully in a calm respectful way I can get quite anxious and if I feel like I'm being attacked I can get quite withdrawn and defensive but like a gentle "Hey can we talk about something" Will make me more open and receptive... if that makes sense?