Questions for the Women

[Brennabean]

Oh By the way I want to get some womens perspective on this because I've noticed some people have this opinion.

Is it your opinion that a woman who displays her naked body in whatever setting is an empowering model?

Personally, I don't think so. Women have always been seen as sexual objects, yes old Christian values kept women covered but even then the religion didn't pain women to be anything other than a child barer. So now that we live in secular societies it's acceptable to have men and women's bodies sold to us through adverts, musicians, entertainment and good ol pornography. But it isn't empowering, it's just typical. I feel empowered when great women are making great change, doing great things and really showing that women are intelligent and can achieve! Growing up with the phrase "its a man's world" depleted my confidence, I'm sure it's the same with other girls and women. Our brains are where it's at, not the flesh bags. 

 

[bleed_the_freak]

yes old Christian values kept women covered but even then the religion didn't pain women to be anything other than a child barer.

Research your bigoted statement. I'm sure it's only acceptable because the specific group you targeted.

 

[M_also_lonely]

Nudity is not a problem, a naked body is natural, we are naturally nude. Its the cloth that creates the whole business out of sexuality. That's why you will see models in short clothes in magazines. Because now, you are left wondering, you are left in fantasizing, there is mystery. Porn industry should be thankful to the institutions (can't name them here) who have successfully tricked people into believing in repression of sex, because otherwise, sexuality and nudity wouldn't have much value and their businesses wouldn't exist, fortunately.

 

[Brennabean]

Nudity is not a problem, a naked body is natural, we are naturally nude. Its the cloth that creates the whole business out of sexuality. That's why you will see models in short clothes in magazines. Now, you are wondering, you are left in fantasizing, there is mystery. Porn industry should be thankful to the institutions (can't name them here) who have successfully tricked people into believing in repression of sex, because otherwise, sexuality and nudity wouldn't have much value and their businesses wouldn't exist, fortunately.

That's a good point and I hadn't thought of that before, now it seems so blindly obvious. I still don't think it's empowering though, our bodies are just bags of flesh. Brains are way better... Call it a preference.

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yes old Christian values kept women covered but even then the religion didn't pain women to be anything other than a child barer.

Research your bigoted statement. I'm sure it's only acceptable because the specific group you targeted.

I suppose your right. I don't know a lot but what I do know is that Eve was blamed for the damnation of man kind because she 'made' Adam eat her apple (hehe) after a long floppy snake seduced her. And jezebel, well a woman who liked to have sex (can't say I've met any of those...) isn't painted so brightly... Those are a couple of examples from my knowledge, I haven't read what's left of the bible so I cant believe I'm definitely right. I can't say I've spent much time researching these stories so when I get around to it we can have a good discussion  

 

[M_also_lonely]

I don't understand why women's rights activists involve in protesting naked, running in streets naked, screaming, etc. and calling for women's empowerment, if what they are doing is not empowering. (which obviously, is not)

 

[VanillaCreme]

I don't understand why women's rights activists involve in protesting naked, running in streets naked, screaming, etc. and calling for women's empowerment, if what they are doing is not empowering. (which obviously, is not)

That's the society that we have today. It's all these radicals that ruin pretty much any idea. Feminism isn't, at base, a bad idea. But these radical feminists who think it's decent to not wear hygienic pads or anything else during their periods, and who want to complain about not being treated fairly, but if a man doesn't open a door for them, then the man is a pig. Those are the ones who ruin it. Those who feel entitled to certain treatment but have done nothing to earn it.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Essentially, I would want a role model for my kids and a partner for myself....not a maid.

Now, I have to ask, in a situation where the woman stays home and takes care of the kids and the cleaning and most if not all of the domestic reponsibilities...would you title her as "Maid"? In the same way you perceive a male in that role as a "Maid"? 

Would you consider that woman a bad role model for the kids or and not a partner to her spouse?

I was a stay at home mom for 10 years.  Married, my ex actually wanted me to stay home and not work.  But, to date a guy that isn't the father of my children who doesn't work is different.  He's not the father, and while eventually, he would take on a more active role with the children, my children already have a father, even though he isn't the  best father in the world and nothing will change that.  I wouldn't want my kids to call another guy "dad." 
So yeah, as I said before, if he was looking for a job or willing to get a job, things might be different, but to just date a guy who has no interest in getting a job is not the kind of example I want to set for my kids.  Now, obviously, if there was some kind of disability where he couldn't work, that would be a different situation, but not for a healthy guy who just doesn't want to work.

 

[Brennabean]

I don't understand why women's rights activists involve in protesting naked, running in streets naked, screaming, etc. and calling for women's empowerment, if what they are doing is not empowering. (which obviously, is not)

But that's only a small percentage of women's rights advocates, the media like to play them up to be this big group and 'new wave' feminism or whatever but it's a load of bollocks. Real WRAs have just made it legal for a women to drive and compete in the Olympics in Saudi Arabia, the women who have only recently been allowed into Saudi government are responsible for this. There is so much more than that too.

 

[reynard_muldrake]

yes old Christian values kept women covered but even then the religion didn't pain women to be anything other than a child barer.

Research your bigoted statement. I'm sure it's only acceptable because the specific group you targeted.

Triggered, are we? There was absolutely nothing "bigoted" about her statement. You're just mad she critiqued something you support.

 

[DarkSelene]

Feminism isn't, at base, a bad idea.

Do you believe we live in a patriarchal society?

 

[bleed_the_freak]

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yes old Christian values kept women covered but even then the religion didn't pain women to be anything other than a child barer.

Research your bigoted statement. I'm sure it's only acceptable because the specific group you targeted.

I suppose your right. I don't know a lot but what I do know is that Eve was blamed for the damnation of man kind because she 'made' Adam eat her apple (hehe) after a long floppy snake seduced her. And jezebel, well a woman who liked to have sex (can't say I've met any of those...) isn't painted so brightly... Those are a couple of examples from my knowledge, I haven't read what's left of the bible so I cant believe I'm definitely right. I can't say I've spent much time researching these stories so when I get around to it we can have a good discussion  

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Clearly, you know not that of which you speak.

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yes old Christian values kept women covered but even then the religion didn't pain women to be anything other than a child barer.

Research your bigoted statement. I'm sure it's only acceptable because the specific group you targeted.

Triggered, are we? There was absolutely nothing "bigoted" about her statement. You're just mad she critiqued something you support.

Who said I support anything? Perhaps I'm just anti-ignorance for the sake of all humankind. Furthermore, your assumptions precede you like a banner of foolishness.

 

[Sci-Fi]

Alright knock it off. Speak to each other with some respect instead of resorting to name calling.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Feminism isn't, at base, a bad idea.

Do you believe we live in a patriarchal society?

I guess it depends on the individual family. Society is leaning away from that more and more. I grew up in a household where my mom ran everything. My dad was very quiet and kind of just hung back. He made a little more than my mom did for a while, but that never defined anything. But nowadays you have families that don't even have male figures, which I think is fine. Shouldn't really be "male" or "female" responsibilities.

 

[M_also_lonely]

But that's only a small percentage of women's rights advocates, the media like to play them up to be this big group and 'new wave' feminism or whatever but it's a load of bollocks.

Its not a small percentage. If it is a small percentage that can cause situation of 'feminism has been misunderstood', then basically, the remaining vast majority is a huge failure or atleast, ineffective in proving the 'small percentage' wrong. Why would anyone believe some stranger coming up and saying, "Oh, in base its not a bad idea, there are some people who have cause this misunderstanding."  
Would you believe if someone comes and tells you, "ISIS in base is not a bad idea, its some radical extreme people who have caused this misunderstanding."  Yes?  No ? why/why not?

 

[Paraiyar]

Edit: nevermind, this is the ask the women thread so I won't write out my opinion, let's just say I disagree with Brennabean about it being a small precentage and leave it at that.

 

[Brennabean]

But that's only a small percentage of women's rights advocates, the media like to play them up to be this big group and 'new wave' feminism or whatever but it's a load of bollocks.

Its not a small percentage. If it is a small percentage that can cause situation of 'feminism has been misunderstood', then basically, the remaining vast majority is a huge failure or atleast, ineffective in proving the 'small percentage' wrong. Why would anyone believe some stranger coming up and saying, "Oh, in base its not a bad idea, there are some people who have cause this misunderstanding."  
Would you believe if someone comes and tells you, "ISIS in base is not a bad idea, its some radical extreme people who have caused this misunderstanding."  Yes?  No ? why/why not?

But it's not just radical feminists who have given it a bad name? What about the other half of the population? Men? That's a pretty large group. And then there's women who say feminism is bollocks because they've never been made to feel smaller than a man, or don't mind it if they are. Yeah there are more men who are feminists now but a way of thinking takes generations to change some of the time.
It hasn't been the radical feminists that have changed laws and perspectives for the better. There are may more Liberal feminists working at women's and men's refuge centres, rape crisis centres, in the police, in politics, and mothers who have to tell their daughters that some men and boys have a weird way of thinking about girls and lifting their daughters spirit when someone says "you can't do that because you're a girl". It's taken a lot of women a lot of work, and now because of a few "free the breasts" marches so many people have turned their back on feminism like it isn't anything more than that. It's silly.
Also for your last question I don't know much about Islamic state, but that could be a good discussion another time when I have time to research it. Final year of uni is making it hard to focus on anything else, luckily feminism is basically the centre of one of my modules

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If you want to carry on debating about feminism I've made another thread called "feminism from all perspectives", join us!

 

[M_also_lonely]

But it's not just radical feminists who have given it a bad name? What about the other half of the population? Men? That's a pretty large group. 

so men are giving bad name to feminism. Ok. Radical feminists + men. Hmm.

 

[Paraiyar]

But that's only a small percentage of women's rights advocates, the media like to play them up to be this big group and 'new wave' feminism or whatever but it's a load of bollocks.

Its not a small percentage. If it is a small percentage that can cause situation of 'feminism has been misunderstood', then basically, the remaining vast majority is a huge failure or atleast, ineffective in proving the 'small percentage' wrong. Why would anyone believe some stranger coming up and saying, "Oh, in base its not a bad idea, there are some people who have cause this misunderstanding."  
Would you believe if someone comes and tells you, "ISIS in base is not a bad idea, its some radical extreme people who have caused this misunderstanding."  Yes?  No ? why/why not?

But it's not just radical feminists who have given it a bad name? What about the other half of the population? Men? That's a pretty large group. And then there's women who say feminism is bollocks because they've never been made to feel smaller than a man, or don't mind it if they are. Yeah there are more men who are feminists now but a way of thinking takes generations to change some of the time.
It hasn't been the radical feminists that have changed laws and perspectives for the better. There are may more Liberal feminists working at women's and men's refuge centres, rape crisis centres, in the police, in politics, and mothers who have to tell their daughters that some men and boys have a weird way of thinking about girls and lifting their daughters spirit when someone says "you can't do that because you're a girl". It's taken a lot of women a lot of work, and now because of a few "free the breasts" marches so many people have turned their back on feminism like it isn't anything more than that. It's silly.
Also for your last question I don't know much about Islamic state, but that could be a good discussion another time when I have time to research it. Final year of uni is making it hard to focus on anything else, luckily feminism is basically the centre of one of my modules

---

If you want to carry on debating about feminism I've made another thread called "feminism from all perspectives", join us!

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I'm not trying to be rude but this comment is so far from the reality of the situation that it's not funny. No, there isn't a Liberal Feminist majority that is concerned about the interests of both genders, most of that demographic have vacated the movement by now.

And who on earth are you to assume the reasons why the women you describe have turned away from your movement? Hasn't occurred to you that maybe they can think for themselves? Maybe you should actually try watching some of the relevant youtubers like shoe0nhead on this subject because what you're saying suggests you don't really don't understand the women whose viewpoint you're dismissing at all.

No one is responsible for the failure of the Western Feminist movement in 2017 but Feminists. Stop blaming everyone else.

 

[Brennabean]

But that's only a small percentage of women's rights advocates, the media like to play them up to be this big group and 'new wave' feminism or whatever but it's a load of bollocks.

Its not a small percentage. If it is a small percentage that can cause situation of 'feminism has been misunderstood', then basically, the remaining vast majority is a huge failure or atleast, ineffective in proving the 'small percentage' wrong. Why would anyone believe some stranger coming up and saying, "Oh, in base its not a bad idea, there are some people who have cause this misunderstanding."  
Would you believe if someone comes and tells you, "ISIS in base is not a bad idea, its some radical extreme people who have caused this misunderstanding."  Yes?  No ? why/why not?

But it's not just radical feminists who have given it a bad name? What about the other half of the population? Men? That's a pretty large group. And then there's women who say feminism is bollocks because they've never been made to feel smaller than a man, or don't mind it if they are. Yeah there are more men who are feminists now but a way of thinking takes generations to change some of the time.
It hasn't been the radical feminists that have changed laws and perspectives for the better. There are may more Liberal feminists working at women's and men's refuge centres, rape crisis centres, in the police, in politics, and mothers who have to tell their daughters that some men and boys have a weird way of thinking about girls and lifting their daughters spirit when someone says "you can't do that because you're a girl". It's taken a lot of women a lot of work, and now because of a few "free the breasts" marches so many people have turned their back on feminism like it isn't anything more than that. It's silly.
Also for your last question I don't know much about Islamic state, but that could be a good discussion another time when I have time to research it. Final year of uni is making it hard to focus on anything else, luckily feminism is basically the centre of one of my modules

---

If you want to carry on debating about feminism I've made another thread called "feminism from all perspectives", join us!

---

I'm not trying to be rude but this comment is so far from the reality of the situation that it's not funny. No, there isn't a Liberal Feminist majority that is concerned about the interests of both genders, most of that demographic have vacated the movement by now.

And who on earth are you to assume the reasons why the women you describe have turned away from your movement? Hasn't occurred to you that maybe they can think for themselves? Maybe you should actually try watching some of the relevant youtubers like shoe0nhead on this subject because what you're saying suggests you don't really don't understand the women whose viewpoint you're dismissing at all.

No one is responsible for the failure of the Western Feminist movement in 2017 but Feminists. Stop blaming everyone else.

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But I haven't said that feminists aren't to blame? I've just said it isn't just them, so you need to stop blaming only feminists. 
OK well that assumption was one example of many, an example that I've heard from women I've met. I. I'm sorry I should have said that this was an example from my experience, I get quite passionate about this topic and type faster than I think. 
Why do you think they've vacated the movement? Who do you think are fighting for women's rights in the East? It's not the radical feminists. 
Don't get angry at me because our opinions differ and because I didn't say "from what  I've seen and heard,  some women feel like they haven't been made to feel smaller than men". 
So what do you think feminism is and who do you think are currently representing it? Obviously the answer is going to be subjective as the question is based on perception, there's no need to get irate.

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But it's not just radical feminists who have given it a bad name? What about the other half of the population? Men? That's a pretty large group. 

so men are giving bad name to feminism. Ok. Radical feminists + men. Hmm.

  Yeah. I think that actual feminists (I suppose 'actual feminists' are subjective) are role models. You know who I think are actual feminists by now. 
It's ok for us to disagree   I don't know if we can continue this debate together because it looks like from now we are going to go in circles. But there are more topics to discuss on the feminism debate thread so feel free to join in there

 

[bleed_the_freak]

I'm still stuck on the fact that several references were made to the Bible in a mocking fashion that were then used to imply, and not subtly, that all Christians are sexual prudes. Funnily enough, the parts she quoted were from the Old Testament, which is also known as the Torah (in Judaism). The Torah is the foundation of all three Abrahamic Faiths - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. However, it is most notably linked with Judaism (the Jewish Faith) because Christianity took significant departures after the coming of Jesus Christ and his New Testament. So...yes...I do find it both odd, ignorant, and bigoted that the references to a religious text significant to more than 2/3 of the world's population were directed in name only at Christianity. Especially in light of the way women are treated OUTSIDE of Christendom. But...yknow...it's trendy.

I mean...Jesus was the son of a single mother, defended an adulteress woman from stoning, and hung out with prostitutes. Clearly, he wasn't a misogynist.