Would you still virginshame someone who is too old and single/inexperienced?

[ardour]

As weird as this is gonna probably sound, sex is part of what makes breakups difficult for me to begin with. It has a very powerful mind-body connection to it. Despite having only been with 7 women since I was 16 (given that I'll be 35 in two months) in essence once I learned how to be stronger than that mind-body connection with another person by having a mind-body connection of my own, gradually I lost interest in it.

I was with the same woman from 16 to 24, which is oddly a very specific time period of life for people. Gradually we just grew into different adults that wanted different things out of life. Namely, I'm an oldschool advocate of The Hard Way in life, because I see value in the life skills it teaches along with the growth it brings, and she....mostly just lazily wanted to have everything handed to her and done for her.

So the result is: I'm nearly 35, and I mostly ditched cars because of expenses and to begin fighting for my health as I got older out of my 20s, and she's nearly 35 and still doesn't even know how to drive.

Mind you, I love the woman despite the fact that she proverbially ripped my heart out and ate it for dinner and totally destroyed my innocence, I'm just not IN LOVE with her, and haven't been for a very long time. I can't say that she never loved me, because she did help teach me things life skills wise, and we're still distant friends, as in haven't seen each other in over a decade nor do I plan on going back to that city anytime soon.

Effectively, I'm kind of, the dead thing that doesn't die. Which sort of figures, it's been that way most of my life.

The awkward thing that I learned about women over time (and this is also true of men, oddly) is that sexually speaking it doesn't matter how good or bad in bed you actually are, psychologically if they can't later use that as leverage over you, it's going to screw with their head quite a bit. You could be the absolute worst possible lay performance-wise, and if they can't use that as leverage against you to get under your skin later, it's going to ******* break them. The equivalent of when someone throws a punch, misses and hits a brick wall instead. Busted hand. Probably shouldn't have thrown the punch in the first place, just sayin'.

Part of that is because a great deal of people, both men and women, use sex and relationships as a form of validation and the hardest of hardcore dopamine hits, rather than of anything of authentic depth of value.

See, had I just been forwardly told that nearly 20 years ago, it would've just saved me a lot of heartache and suffering. Again, a lot of heartache and suffering in the world is the result of the fact that we inform our children wrong through fantasy to preserve their innocence, and then into adulthood they cruelly and crushingly discover that fantasy is not the same as reality without a very serious and dangerous divorce from rational practicality.

When you factor out the validation, the mental high of the dopamine, the fact that it just feels really good, and procreation itself, what then is the value of sex itself? Not the value of your partner, because your partner is a person, but the value of sex itself?

And so to answer your question directly:
I would never virginshame anyone of any age or gender, because sex when you are younger ends up being a lot like alcohol and drugs when you're younger: it's a great and fun experience when you're younger, but as you get older it eventually brings you to a pivot of life where either you control it or it controls you, and if you don't learn to control it, like with drugs and alcohol, it can and will fresia your life up. So in most instances actually, alike with drinking, I kind of wished I'd never started. Because also alike with drinking, how it started and what I thought it was going to continue to be, eventually just wasn't.

I mean if I were more emotionally squishy like I was 15 years ago, I would still probably pedestalize love, sex, relationships and the elusive "American Dream." But in my age, time and experience, it all just became very: Meh, to me. If I'd had wanted a wife, a kid, a family and a mortgage than yeah, I probably would still be sold on that idea. But to someone like me, it doesn't matter how golden and glittery the prison bars are, a cage is still a cage to me.

Gradually, I wanted a life of freedom. Freedom from mental chains that bind, that allow me to temper myself and the world around me to that mental freedom. Which means in terms of rational practicality, that I cannot rightfully bring someone down this path that is not already on it themselves, and we are very few and very far in-between.

I'm more okay with being the crazy village hermit living in a hut away from the village, than I am being the head of the tribe. I'm more medicine man, less warrior king.

Getting to this point REQUIRES experience imo. It isn't much comfort to an older virgin to hear how apparently empty the experiences are from those with first hand knowledge. That's like the wealthy individual who embraces Buddhism after realizing money and possessions aren't fulfilling. To somebody living in poverty, material comfort seems just as critical to happiness.

An experienced 35 year old can't comprehend what it's like to a virgin at that age (and vice versa)

Also, maybe it's easier to free oneself of attachment with age, when we aren't so jumped up on hormones and people look older (and let's be honest, less attractive).

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Getting to this point REQUIRES experience imo. It isn't much comfort to an older virgin to hear how apparently empty the experiences are from those with first hand knowledge. That's like the wealthy individual who embraces Buddhism after realizing money and possessions aren't fulfilling. To somebody living in poverty, material comfort seems just as critical to happiness.

An experienced 35 year old can't comprehend what it's like to a virgin at that age (and vice versa)

Also, maybe it's easier to free oneself of attachment with age, when we aren't so jumped up on hormones and people look older (and let's be honest, less attractive).

I've never made more than $16K in my life. Just instead of doing things like trying to build a home theater I traveled the country with a caravan for a while. I think of it more like the movie version of The Notebook: I guessed the ending 20 minutes in, my ex got slightly upset, but also I saved myself an additional hour. Time, is the only currency we humans trade in that once it is spent it's just gone. I lost nearly a decade of my life just to learn that lesson. So the point of my post, is "don't do this with your life for that reason, and if you do, find a different reason than I had, because you too don't also, need to lose nearly a decade of your life chasing a fantasy that cannot be a reality."

But yes, it does get easier with age to free yourself of attachment and to regulate your hormonal influence by yourself rather than externally through things like diet and exercise.

I actually neither consider myself successful nor experienced. There's a difference between having experiences and being experienced. I just handle mundane life pressures well, because in my time on the road I had a gun held against my head in a robbery in a cult that I accidentally got mixed up with on the other side of the country from where I'm from. So comparatively, I mean, yeah, your standard 9 - 5 Monday - Friday routine, paying the bills and trying to maintain structure and humility is, actually not only easier but preferable.

I've been to 13 funerals. A lot of people I've loved have died. I've been to twice as many funerals for my friends as I have weddings for my friends. Drugs, alcohol, medical conditions, car accidents, motorcycle accidents, murders, and suicides. I'm in no way trying to tell people how to live their lives, but given my own experiences, I try to give the suggestion on hope that people think before they act. I think, because I'm tired of seeing good people get shafted.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

Getting to this point REQUIRES experience imo. It isn't much comfort to an older virgin to hear how apparently empty the experiences are from those with first hand knowledge. That's like the wealthy individual who embraces Buddhism after realizing money and possessions aren't fulfilling. To somebody living in poverty, material comfort seems just as critical to happiness.

An experienced 35 year old can't comprehend what it's like to a virgin at that age (and vice versa)

Also, maybe it's easier to free oneself of attachment with age, when we aren't so jumped up on hormones and people look older (and let's be honest, less attractive).

I don't think the intention was to bring comfort. Maybe it was. The wealthy man and the poor man seek the spiritual path from different starting positions true; but, the intended destination, is the same; and where they will go from that point, will also be different.

I don't think it's necessary to burn yourself on a hot stove to realize you don't want that experience.

It is one of those paradoxes though, in my appraisal. Like being alone, because you're lonely, and because you're lonely, you end up alone.

You need certain experience to be competent enough to be able to play the field; but, because you haven't played the field, you lack the experience to know how to do it, and because you lack the experience, you can't get out their and play the field...

I dunno.. I suppose that's of little comfort..

--
I think all the above, what i've written, in hindsight, is so much stuff and nonsense; but, instead of voiding this, I'll leave it. Maybe it will be of some use..

 

[Kar]

Absolutely not! There is nothing to be ashamed about. It's even a little endearing.

 

[Intrama]

Still? I never would.

Aye, same here.

 

[WillPower]

Definitely no one should be shamed for it. But it does happen all the time in our society. And it's a source of shame for many guys. They even made Hollywood movies about it like the 40 YO Virgin.

 

[Intrama]

But it does happen all the time in our society.

Yeah, just another shining example of how wonderful our world is.

I have acquaintances, a couple "friends", and family members who definitely fit the bill of jumping on anyone for any perceived weakness. This would for sure be included in that.

It would be nice if ppl genuinely minded their own business a lot of the time... They can't possibly think they're helping the person, can they? I'd wager it isolates further and reinforces a negative image of self. Nothing helpful there.

 

[user 139760]

Virginshaming is dumb.
One of my older cousin met his wife, got married and lost his virginity at...I think it was around 45-48 ish. Not sure.
Who cares. It's not the measure of someone.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Getting to this point REQUIRES experience imo. It isn't much comfort to an older virgin to hear how apparently empty the experiences are from those with first hand knowledge. That's like the wealthy individual who embraces Buddhism after realizing money and possessions aren't fulfilling. To somebody living in poverty, material comfort seems just as critical to happiness.

An experienced 35 year old can't comprehend what it's like to a virgin at that age (and vice versa)

Also, maybe it's easier to free oneself of attachment with age, when we aren't so jumped up on hormones and people look older (and let's be honest, less attractive).

Exactly.

I would say that a person would have to experience wealth and possessions first, in order to not be fulfilled by them.

Same with a romantic relationship.

It's easier to free yourself from attachment to these things once you've experienced them already, and are either secure in your knowledge you can get them again, and/or if you've ticked them off your bucket list, "been there, done that" and have no particular need to do it again.

It's a whole different matter to feel like you're not even good enough for what most of your peers consider "normal life" to the point of taking it for granted that it will happen, just by existing.

When you haven't experienced it, there's this anxiety of,
"Will it happen?"
"Won't it?"
"What do I need to do and how do I do it?"
"Where do I even need to start looking for what to do?"
"How do I need to think, talk, act?"
"How do I need to change and live my life to make it happen?"
"Why can't it just happen for me like it seems to for just about everyone else?"
"Am I just not good enough?"
"Will I just never experience anything more than bleakness and misery for the rest of my life?"

 

[blackdot]

I virginshame myself.

 

[ardour]

Exactly.

I would say that a person would have to experience wealth and possessions first, in order to not be fulfilled by them.

Same with a romantic relationship.

It's easier to free yourself from attachment to these things once you've experienced them already, and are either secure in your knowledge you can get them again, and/or if you've ticked them off your bucket list, "been there, done that" and have no particular need to do it again.

It's a whole different matter to feel like you're not even good enough for what most of your peers consider "normal life" to the point of taking it for granted that it will happen, just by existing.

When you haven't experienced it, there's this anxiety of,
"Will it happen?"
"Won't it?"
"What do I need to do and how do I do it?"
"Where do I even need to start looking for what to do?"
"How do I need to think, talk, act?"
"How do I need to change and live my life to make it happen?"
"Why can't it just happen for me like it seems to for just about everyone else?"
"Am I just not good enough?"
"Will I just never experience anything more than bleakness and misery for the rest of my life?"

It's also familiarity.

When you live with someone, see them at the worst/most unkempt, hear them go to bathroom while in the other room etc. etc. It would take the mystery out of relationships and the opposite sex: Suddenly they're not this unobtainable person but just another flawed human being.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

nm