The effects of a belief system

Hey everyone,

I am not sure where to put this thread since none of the topics seem to match so I'll post it here.

Anyway, this thread is about religion. Now before anyone gets up in a tizzy, no, this is not about what religion is right or wrong. Its nothing controversial like that.

I simply want to know what the members of this forum think about the effects of having a belief system like a religion has on a persons mental health.

To the religious members, has your belief system helped you in managing and/or overcoming certain trials of your lives? or has it somehow hindered you?

To the non-religious members, how has having no belief system affected you? was it positive or negative do you think?

It goes without saying but I'll say it anyway. If you do choose to reply to this thread, do not argue with other members and criticize their beliefs. Be civil please and just share your experience.

Thank you.

"I simply want to know what the members of this forum think about the effects of having a belief system like a religion has on a persons mental health."

- I think any system that helps to enforce a daily regimen and encourage discipline in life is fantastic for mental health. I've been "out of sorts"
for nearly a year now due to reasons I won't go into, and it's totally knocked me off my regimen and I am somewhat floundering trying to get back to where I was. And just IMO, religion seems to be one of the best ways to maintain balance in life. I'm a very lapsed Catholic. People who take religion seriously seem to be much better off mentally than I am.

Unsigned said:

People who take religion seriously seem to be much better off mentally than I am.

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Maybe because of their social interaction? But I’m not sure that’s really true in any case. It’s just a perception in my opinion.

As for me, I was put off religious at a young age, but I did search some beliefs later in life and conversed a lot about it on a particular forum, but nothing solidified my desire to tend towards one belief or another. I purely believe in the power of self now, but socialising with other humans is important.

For decades now I have preached (excuse the pun) that people can believe and follow whatever they want if it’s of benefit to their wellbeing and doesn’t negatively affect anything else.

okidoke said:

Maybe because of their social interaction?

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Possibly.
Just seems to instill a beneficial discipline in life, from what I have observed.
Again and as always, just IMO.

Unsigned said:

Just seems to instill a beneficial discipline in life, from what I have observed.

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You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion my friend. Don't feel any less worthy by saying "just". To me at least, it appears, that every belief system has a "beneficial discipline in life" to promote, otherwise it wouldn't attract a follower. Some people are followers and some are leaders, and sometimes some people are a bit of both depending on where they are in life at the time. Through experience of our own lives, we can practically make up our own "discipline in life", that which makes our own life easiest and most beneficial to live with. (Dammit, I was interrupted by my daughter and have totally lost my line of thought lol) Anyway, some of us need direction from others to help us get on a path of least destruction, or we need social interaction, or we feel like we need to present a certain profile to the world, or we just like the taste of the church wine and smell of church candles, so we attend church (or whatever place of worship). Congregations of any belief system are still full of people who are dealing with the same things as others who aren't in a congregation. If it makes you feel better within, then it's worth being a part of it.

Sunless Sky said:

To the religious members, has your belief system helped you in managing and/or overcoming certain trials of your lives?

Click to expand...

In my case, it hasn't, but it might be because my search for God didn't involve being part of a community. I can't attend church because I am disabled and I have no one to accompany me there. Seeking God on my own by praying everyday and reading the Bible for over 5 years has turned me into an agnostic dystheist, meaning someone who is uncertain if there is a God, but thinks that if a God exists, then He is not all-good. He can't be. The more I sought Him, the worse my health and my life in general got. There were almost zero answers to my important prayers, zero "gifts of the Spirit" (as the Bible calls the behavioral changes that are supposed to accompany the process of "being born again"), zero improvements in any areas of my life. This lead to an awful cognitive dissonance that I didn't know how to handle. Seeing Christians online be completely unaffected by the numerous unanswered questions I struggle with made me believe that I was living in some sort of "Truman show" reality or a dystopian world in which the majority have been brainwashed and cannot think rationally. The worst part is that I did experience some moments of "supernatural changes" that I don't have an explanation for, such as brief moments of euphoria during prayer, a large number of coincidences related to the Bible and my life, and had some small prayers answered (things like finding a misplaced object).

As a Christian, I'm certain that my faith significantly affects and strengthens my mental and emotional well being. It's my rock, my foundation for understanding the world, life's purpose, and my means of engaging with it. I can't speak for others, but here's a telling story from a few sources:

A series of indepth Gallup investigations done 10 years ago concluded with a summary stating: "The very religious rate their lives more positively, are less likely to have ever been diagnosed with depression, and experience fewer daily negative emotions. … The very religious also make much better health choices than do those who are not as or not at all religious."

Another summary coming from TIME magazine stated: "Scientists have found, again and again, that those with a spiritual practice or who follow religious beliefs tend to be happier than those who don't. Study after study has found that religious people tend to be less depressed and less anxious than nonbelievers, better able to handle the vicissitudes of life than nonbelievers."

Harold Koenig, professor of psychiatry at Duke University School of Medicine, published a comprehensive summary reviewing over a century's worth of hundreds of studies looking at the relationship between religion and mental and physical health. He concluded: "A large volume of research shows that people who are more R/S [religious/spiritual] have better mental health and adapt more quickly to health problems compared to those who are less R/S." Koenig's list of psychological outcomes that appear to be related, in a positive way, with religiosity included coping with adversity, hope, optimism, self-esteem, depression, suicidal tendencies, anxiety and psychotic disorders.

It seems that spiritual religion in general helps people, and the more serious they are with their faith the more benefit they derive from it. That shouldn't be surprising if one understands the encompassing effect that religion entails - being a belief system that shapes our entire world view, thought, and behavior within it.

While I'd agree that any religion can make people mentally and emotionally stronger, more stable, and happier in (this) life, I'd caution from a Christian perspective that our purpose in life here is not to be happy and well; it's to know and love God and to learn how to love others. If that be the case, the choice of which religion we make now has profound implications for the future that matter more than our current feelings or condition. In other words, choosing the right religion for the long term benefit of our soul is more important than choosing a religion that just makes us feel better in the near term. It's the most important thing in life and should thus be given serious thought, time, and attention.

Sir Joseph said:

Scientists have found, again and again, that those with a spiritual practice or who follow religious beliefs tend to be happier than those who don't. Study after study has found that religious people tend to be less depressed and less anxious than nonbelievers, better able to handle the vicissitudes of life than nonbelievers.

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Those studies probably didn't take into consideration the people who struggle with religious OCD / scrupulosity, which makes life hell. I know cause I've had it for several years and I've been in several online groups for people with this disorder. Not only does it cause constant doubt and anxiety, but it makes existence virtually impossible because you start questioning everything about God and your actions. Oh, the stories I've read in those groups on Facebook and Reddit...

Sir Joseph said:

it's to know and love God and to learn how to love others.

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So, God wants a relationship with humanity that resembles Stockholm Syndrome? He forces us into existing against our will, tells us that life will be rough (despite the fact that He is omnipotent and could spare us the hardships), let's us wallow in suffering for decades, and expects us to learn to love Him during our suffering. And all this happens under the threat of eternal torment in hell if we fail to love Him. If this isn't some messed up Hunger Games type of dictatorship, I don't know what it is.

Constantin said:

Those studies probably didn't take into consideration the people who struggle with religious OCD / scrupulosity, which makes life hell. I know cause I've had it for several years and I've been in several online groups for people with this disorder. Not only does it cause constant doubt and anxiety, but it makes existence virtually impossible because you start questioning everything about God and your actions. Oh, the stories I've read in those groups on Facebook and Reddit...


So, God wants a relationship with humanity that resembles Stockholm Syndrome? He forces us into existing against our will, tells us that life will be rough (despite the fact that He is omnipotent and could spare us the hardships), let's us wallow in suffering for decades, and expects us to learn to love Him during our suffering. And all this happens under the threat of eternal torment in hell if we fail to love Him. If this isn't some messed up Hunger Games type of dictatorship, I don't know what it is.

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Your anger towards God is apparent Constantine and a common reaction from some people who have struggled with hard lives. And yet, there are hundreds of millions of poor, starving, imprisoned, disabled, or otherwise hurting individuals that embrace God despite their problems. My best friend is one who is missing legs, fingers, and organs, requires a lift system to even get out of bed into his wheelchair, suffers from constant pain, lack of energy from dialysis, and routine hospital visits from frequent infections. His physical body is a wreck and his life severely limited, yet he knows and loves the Lord and has a peace and hope in life that is enviable. How can that be? It's not because of his misguided Catholic Church upbringing, agnostic family members, failed career, or physical hardships that God's inflicted upon him. And even though he still counts his blessings each day, it's certainly not for the good life God's given him. Why then? Let me give a Christian answer that applies to you and everyone reading this thread.

We don't or shouldn't love God for what we want, hope, or expect him to do for us. He's not a vending machine where we ask for things and respond favorably if he obliges. That attitude, as many people hold, is an ungenuine faith that won't last when tested with problems or prayers seemingly unanswered.

I believe that the evidence for God in the world around us is obvious and overwhelming and that logic dictates we accept that reality not because we like it, but because its true.

I also believe that the Bible's scientific, historical, archaeological, and prophetic evidence supports its Divine inspiration and authority. It is the ultimate objective truth to determine our world view and guide our lives.

If that be the case, we recognize that the God who created all things, controls all things, and who's nature is all knowing, all powerful, holy, and righteous deserves (and demands) our fear, honor, and obedience. That was enough for mankind's first 4000 years on earth, but Christ's coming changed the situation. We no longer love God solely out of fear or hope for immediate blessings, but because God loved us first. To reconcile man's sin and rejection of God, he provided himself as a perfect sacrifice through Jesus' brutal torture and death on the cross - an unprecedented, unconditional act of love for all mankind. So now, my friend Jim, me, and other Christians don't love God based upon how nicely he blesses our lives and answers our prayers, but because he loved us enough to die for us.

To those that embrace the Gospel message (good news) of Christianity and appreciate the significance of Jesus' resurrection, a peace for living in this temporary life and fallen world can be had. Even more so, to those accepting the loving gift of grace that God's offered through Jesus' death and payment for our sins, salvation is assured, giving us a joy and hope for the future new body, life, and world more glorious than we can ever imagine.

In short, God deserves our fear, honor, respect, and love for many reasons. And while false religion experiences, tough life circumstances, and unanswered questions can make one question his goodness, power, or plan, understand that the story's not over yet. In the end, justice will be done for all, and those who truly love God will be rewarded in ways that far outweigh any of our problems in this short, temporary life. I think we should consider this life a training ground to shape our character and grow our souls. That may seem unfair for those facing hardships, but God's got all of eternity to make it up to us and I believe he will.

Sunless Sky said:

Hey everyone,

I am not sure where to put this thread since none of the topics seem to match so I'll post it here.

Anyway, this thread is about religion. Now before anyone gets up in a tizzy, no, this is not about what religion is right or wrong. Its nothing controversial like that.

I simply want to know what the members of this forum think about the effects of having a belief system like a religion has on a persons mental health.

To the religious members, has your belief system helped you in managing and/or overcoming certain trials of your lives? or has it somehow hindered you?

To the non-religious members, how has having no belief system affected you? was it positive or negative do you think?

It goes without saying but I'll say it anyway. If you do choose to reply to this thread, do not argue with other members and criticize their beliefs. Be civil please and just share your experience.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

Hi!
I capitalized your words to make them bold... After six decades, I learned a thing: If I saw a person in the risk of a fall... Will I warn them at once?
It took me 26 years to flee from Christianity (a thing I won regret). My whole life I was pagan and that belief system served me to be familiar with the Torah and with the "Old Covenant" (a thing that is *Old", but not expired or superseded). After I realized *Jesus* was a liar (Please let everybody knows I am not attacking A PERSON but an idea, a tradition or a concept) I felt hurt, I felt completely disappointed, particularly, because I had preached publicly in the streets the LIE I had believed (it was easy to swallow that bait once I saw there were TRUE believers). I realized I was another experiencing the Syndrome of Stockholm who fought for a lie I had believed (but that served me to know philosophically the Torah, as I said).

Did that belief system affect my brain?
No! On the contrary. If I was as unholy as I was, I wouldn't have lived 60 years. I had to read several books to see the light and, while I studied part of the Sea Scrolls, I also read "The Caesar's Messiah" of Joseph Atwill, Flavius Josephus and Suetonius Tranquilus.

I won´t add a bit more since I don´t want to break the rules and it is irrelevant what I said: Each ppl has to be certain of what they already KNOW, not by what they heard from others.

Here it is what I published on that subject (https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ouid=101983977909707718267&rtpof=true&sd=true)
and this is what I mixed on youtube ()

Shalom!

Constantin said:

In my case, it hasn't, but it might be because my search for God didn't involve being part of a community. I can't attend church because I am disabled and I have no one to accompany me there. Seeking God on my own by praying everyday and reading the Bible for over 5 years has turned me into an agnostic dystheist, meaning someone who is uncertain if there is a God, but thinks that if a God exists, then He is not all-good. He can't be. The more I sought Him, the worse my health and my life in general got. There were almost zero answers to my important prayers, zero "gifts of the Spirit" (as the Bible calls the behavioral changes that are supposed to accompany the process of "being born again"), zero improvements in any areas of my life. This lead to an awful cognitive dissonance that I didn't know how to handle. Seeing Christians online be completely unaffected by the numerous unanswered questions I struggle with made me believe that I was living in some sort of "Truman show" reality or a dystopian world in which the majority have been brainwashed and cannot think rationally. The worst part is that I did experience some moments of "supernatural changes" that I don't have an explanation for, such as brief moments of euphoria during prayer, a large number of coincidences related to the Bible and my life, and had some small prayers answered (things like finding a misplaced object).

Click to expand...

I was atheistic up to the day He approached to me in several ways! Once I left Christianity, my life was spared when I knew about several NDEs (and NDErs). Today, philosophically, my approach to Judaism serves me to keep me alive.

okidoke said:

Maybe because of their social interaction? But I’m not sure that’s really true in any case. It’s just a perception in my opinion.

As for me, I was put off religious at a young age, but I did search some beliefs later in life and conversed a lot about it on a particular forum, but nothing solidified my desire to tend towards one belief or another. I purely believe in the power of self now, but socialising with other humans is important.

For decades now I have preached (excuse the pun) that people can believe and follow whatever they want if it’s of benefit to their wellbeing and doesn’t negatively affect anything else.

Click to expand...

That was the thought and tolerance many Jews had as "Universo Paralelo" (https://www.musicweek.com/cimages/2b2bf9be57f09f4ac079247f7c04763c.jpeg) before Oct 7th 2023... In that Sukkot they permitted some of them brought a Buddha, and several *things* that were counterproductive in Israel (unnamed here to avoid breaking the NWO rules)

Sir Joseph said:

And yet, there are hundreds of millions of poor, starving, imprisoned, disabled, or otherwise hurting individuals that embrace God despite their problems.

Click to expand...

Yes, Stockholm Syndrome also seems to be a common phenomenon. There are many women who have fallen in love and even defended their kidnappers and rapists, there are many abused wives who defend their husbands etc.

Sir Joseph said:

My best friend is one who is missing legs, fingers, and organs, requires a lift system to even get out of bed into his wheelchair, suffers from constant pain, lack of energy from dialysis, and routine hospital visits from frequent infections. His physical body is a wreck and his life severely limited, yet he knows and loves the Lord and has a peace and hope in life that is enviable.

Click to expand...

I hope you realize that this is not a choice. It's a matter of cognitive flexibility, which is an involuntary aspect of the human brain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6794241/

Sir Joseph said:

We don't or shouldn't love God for what we want, hope, or expect him to do for us. He's not a vending machine where we ask for things and respond favorably if he obliges. That attitude, as many people hold, is an ungenuine faith that won't last when tested with problems or prayers seemingly unanswered.

Click to expand...

That is a logical fallacy called a strawman. I've seen it used by Christian apologists many times and it never ceases to annoy me. How do you not understand how flawed it is? Its absurdity is incredibly evident.
God doesn't have to be a vending machine or a genie in order for Him to be obligated to offer us what we ask for. All He has to be is honest in regards to the promises He allegedly made in the Bible. If Jesus clearly and unambiguously states that ANYTHING one shall ask with faith, one shall receive, if the New Testament makes at least a dozen promises that believers will have their prayers answered, if God specifically mentions that He made a covenant and that all those who obey Him will receive healing and sustenance in this earthly life, and if God wants to hold to the title of omnibenevolent, then there is no rational reason to compare God to a vending machine when one holds God to His promises.
Loving someone who constantly allows you to suffer is irrational, and reason is the only tool I have to navigate this life. Reason has proven safe time and time again, so I trust it.

Sir Joseph said:

I believe that the evidence for God in the world around us is obvious and overwhelming and that logic dictates we accept that reality not because we like it, but because its true.

I also believe that the Bible's scientific, historical, archaeological, and prophetic evidence supports its Divine inspiration and authority. It is the ultimate objective truth to determine our world view and guide our lives.

Click to expand...

I have read the Bible several times and I disagree. I don't see any evidence of the merciful and all-loving God Christians preach. I see a chaotic tyrant who treats humans horribly and created a system based on suffering and predation for a very petty reason.

Sir Joseph said:

If that be the case, we recognize that the God who created all things, controls all things, and who's nature is all knowing, all powerful, holy, and righteous deserves (and demands) our fear, honor, and obedience.

Click to expand...

The only thing I agree with in that list is fear. Yes, we should fear omnipotent tyrants.

Sir Joseph said:

We no longer love God solely out of fear or hope for immediate blessings, but because God loved us first.

Click to expand...

Allowing His entire creation to suffer for thousands of years because of the disobedience of the original humans is as far as I can imagine from the definition of "love". It's cruel, sadistic, horrible and worthy of contempt.

Sir Joseph said:

To reconcile man's sin and rejection of God, he provided himself as a perfect sacrifice through Jesus' brutal torture and death on the cross - an unprecedented, unconditional act of love for all mankind.

Click to expand...

That makes absolutely no sense for a variety of reasons that I will invite you to listen to in this video:

Sir Joseph said:

So now, my friend Jim, me, and other Christians don't love God based upon how nicely he blesses our lives and answers our prayers, but because he loved us enough to die for us.

Click to expand...

No one had to die for anyone. He is the one who create the rules. He could have created any other rules. In light of His omnipotence, it is completely irrational.

Sir Joseph said:

To those that embrace the Gospel message (good news) of Christianity and appreciate the significance of Jesus' resurrection, a peace for living in this temporary life and fallen world can be had. Even more so, to those accepting the loving gift of grace that God's offered through Jesus' death and payment for our sins, salvation is assured, giving us a joy and hope for the future new body, life, and world more glorious than we can ever imagine.

Click to expand...

That's a very bizarre offer. Those whose minds are able to embrace irrationality and abandon logic will receive peace and will be spared from eternal torture.

Sir Joseph said:

In short, God deserves our fear, honor, respect, and love for many reasons. And while false religion experiences, tough life circumstances, and unanswered questions can make one question his goodness, power, or plan, understand that the story's not over yet. In the end, justice will be done for all, and those who truly love God will be rewarded in ways that far outweigh any of our problems in this short, temporary life. I think we should consider this life a training ground to shape our character and grow our souls. That may seem unfair for those facing hardships, but God's got all of eternity to make it up to us and I believe he will.

Click to expand...

Please watch this video (it's in English, please ignore the foreign subtitles at the top):

Constantin said:

Yes, Stockholm Syndrome also seems to be a common phenomenon. There are many women who have fallen in love and even defended their kidnappers and rapists, there are many abused wives who defend their husbands etc.

I hope you realize that this is not a choice. It's a matter of cognitive flexibility, which is an involuntary aspect of the human brain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6794241/


That is a logical fallacy called a strawman. I've seen it used by Christian apologists many times and it never ceases to annoy me. How do you not understand how flawed it is? Its absurdity is incredibly evident.
God doesn't have to be a vending machine or a genie in order for Him to be obligated to offer us what we ask for. All He has to be is honest in regards to the promises He allegedly made in the Bible. If Jesus clearly and unambiguously states that ANYTHING one shall ask with faith, one shall receive, if the New Testament makes at least a dozen promises that believers will have their prayers answered, if God specifically mentions that He made a covenant and that all those who obey Him will receive healing and sustenance in this earthly life, and if God wants to hold to the title of omnibenevolent, then there is no rational reason to compare God to a vending machine when one holds God to His promises.
Loving someone who constantly allows you to suffer is irrational, and reason is the only tool I have to navigate this life. Reason has proven safe time and time again, so I trust it.


I have read the Bible several times and I disagree. I don't see any evidence of the merciful and all-loving God Christians preach. I see a chaotic tyrant who treats humans horribly and created a system based on suffering and predation for a very petty reason.


The only thing I agree with in that list is fear. Yes, we should fear omnipotent tyrants.


Allowing His entire creation to suffer for thousands of years because of the disobedience of the original humans is as far as I can imagine from the definition of "love". It's cruel, sadistic, horrible and worthy of contempt.


That makes absolutely no sense for a variety of reasons that I will invite you to listen to in this video:



No one had to die for anyone. He is the one who create the rules. He could have created any other rules. In light of His omnipotence, it is completely irrational.


That's a very bizarre offer. Those whose minds are able to embrace irrationality and abandon logic will receive peace and will be spared from eternal torture.



Please watch this video (it's in English, please ignore the foreign subtitles at the top):

Click to expand...

Fair enough Constantin. I've read your comments carefully and watched part of the videos. It's time now to accept that we disagree vehemently on just about everything and thus no further attempts at influncing the other will be productive. I do wish you well in all things and hold no animosity with others here who don't share my world view.