Is Spanking Or A Slap To The Face As A Disciplinary Measure Child Abuse?

[monkeysox]

I used to think as a child a 'good hiding' never did me any harm, but when I became a parent myself a spanking just seemed to be more an act of frustration than actually trying to teach the difference between right or wrong and found that withholding privileges was far more effective and I wanted my child to respect me - not fear me !

 

[Walley]

I used to think as a child a 'good hiding' never did me any harm, but when I became a parent myself a spanking just seemed to be more an act of frustration than actually trying to teach the difference between right or wrong and found that withholding privileges was far more effective and I wanted my child to respect me - not fear me !

again.. you took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[nerdygirl]

The interaction between two adults is not the same as the interaction between a parent and a child.

If an adult was to drag a whiny adult home, it would be abduction. If an adult drags a whiny child home, it's not. You can leave an adult stranded somewhere or tell them to get packing (as long as they're not on the lease/ deed of your home). If you throw out a child, it is abandonment. If an adult spits on you, it's assault. If a kid does it, it's a bratty kid.

Oh, and none of the above are abuse.

And monkeysox, if spanking is done as an act of frustration, you're doing it wrong. Spanking should be done in a time of clarity and calm. My kid has no fear of me, but she respects me and considers me one of her best friends.

 

[Walley]

dont need spanking to get respect. if you so..maybe you're doing it wrong?
i dont spank my kids because i dont need to... i try to instil my morale standards into them and they carry that with them everywhere and it helps keep them out of trouble.
proactive parenting can go a long way in avoiding the need for strict punishment.
spanking in any form is reactive parenting and only infuses the primal act of dominance and submission.

 

[Badjedidude]

I see nothing wrong with spanking.

Slapping a child's face doesn't seem right to me.

In ALL punishments, moderation is the key. Never give a punishment when you're angry. Wait an hour or two to cool down, THEN bring the child in, talk to them, and administer whatever punishment you feel fits their actions.

 

[bulmabriefs144]

I remember getting spanked exactly once, and it was when I was twelve or so. My dad rarely spanked me, a third child, but his first son he spanked alot. Mainly because he was spanked alot as a kid (it was an era of discipline). His dad told him "ease up already", and he said "but you used to spank me all the time" to which he said "I'm not proud of it."

By the time he got to me, the only time I got spanked is if I did something extremely selfish. Spanking should only be used in two situations, the kid puts themselves so far past others in selfishness that in the real world it would hurt or kill someone. Some sort of discipline should be used if the child almost risks their own life though the whole "insult to injury" part there, means it's probably better just to be extremely worried and tell them "DON'T SCARE ME LIKE THAT."

Discipline is social normative behavior, social control, basically brainwashing your kid. Spanking should never be used for this. Children should be free to make their own decisions, but know you've got their back (within reason, saying "my child's a good kid" and trying to excuse him for murder not so much, not that you should treat them like a demon either for their mistakes, unless well they are are sociopath). Again it boils down to a kid being curbed from extreme selfishness, this time selfishness that causes harm to others.

I've looked at the aftereffects of both our raising methods. My brother's one of these high stress business types but deeply controlled by the women in his life and I'm not at all sure he's doing what he wants to do, my sister (who came in halfway in) is sort of a tomboy and seems to have just enough drive to get what she wants and seems happy doing it, and I was normal and well adjusted right? Well, no. I was given nonphysical punishment alot, and shut down for being "antisocial", which turned out to be almost as bad, as I'm painfully shy and deathly afraid of rejection to the point where I run from job interviews. The message here isn't spanking. It's discipline as social control, being something that generally that generally makes children nervous and timid. You have to show

Badjedidude, I don't agree at all. There's no true difference between any type of hitting (or even just verbally bashing a kid). I think it's important that the child know that you are upset with them. Calmly hitting a child is much more unsettling. But all the same, they shouldn't always be hit (or yelled at) whenever you get upset.

If they can remember only one time when they were spanked and remember why (always, because they almost killed another kid/pet through selfishness or negligence, or because they almost killed themselves), this is the point. To be constantly told their behavior is unacceptable at an age they are trying hard to fit in, makes painfully shy social outcasts.

 

[nerdygirl]

dont need spanking to get respect. if you so..maybe you're doing it wrong?

Good grief. Is there somebody out there who spanks people to get respect?

 

[MsMac]

I don't believe in hit in the face but a good smack on the behind does a child good. My personally belief is you don't have to hurt them just scare them, after a certian age you can just talk to them.

Its against the law here to lay hands (or anything else) on children, whether it hurts them or not

 

[ardour]

Badjedidude, I don't agree at all. There's no true difference between any type of hitting (or even just verbally bashing a kid). I think it's important that the child know that you are upset with them. Calmly hitting a child is much more unsettling. But all the same, they shouldn't always be hit (or yelled at) whenever you get upset.

Obviously there can be a difference in physical harm and intent - to vent frustration vs a genuine attempt to convey disapproval over destructive behaviour.

Whether it's really justified or beneficial is another thing. For example if a child throws the cat off the balcony I would think a light smack in immediate response acceptable, and the 'shaming' effect on the child possibly a good lesson. But if their behaviour is simply annoying or obnoxious, then no.

Whatever the situation it should still be at the discretion of parents, the truly abusive ones wouldn't care about what society condones or what the law states anyway.

 

[monkeysox]

Someone said to me that smacking is the only form of punishment when the parent has no patience to find a better cure.

Not meaning to diss post above (and respect your opinion) but to just explain what the no patience statement meant.

"smacking a child for throwing a cat off a balcony is not going to mend the cats broken legs, when you correct a wrong with a wrong - you over ride the initial wrong with a new one. The original wrong loses its importance. A child may fear recompense but will also always feel victim too.''

This really struck a chord with me when my son was young because it made sense.

 

[bulmabriefs144]

Like I said above, a smack/spank makes sense only in the context of harming others. Sorta "this is how that person feels" but to a much lesser extent. It's only to curb psychotic behavior, not to enforce discipline, and certainly not to vent frustrations.

 

[The Good Citizen]

dont need spanking to get respect. if you so..maybe you're doing it wrong?

Good grief. Is there somebody out there who spanks people to get respect?

There's a few fetish sites I could point you toward?

 

[Badjedidude]

Like I said above, a smack/spank makes sense only in the context of harming others. Sorta "this is how that person feels" but to a much lesser extent. It's only to curb psychotic behavior, not to enforce discipline, and certainly not to vent frustrations.

You're assuming that young children have the capacity to understand a well-explained punishment. Sure, kids can be smart... but it's a proven fact that the judgement center of a child's brain won't be fully developed until they're 17 or older.

Spanking is negative reinforcement. It trains them to avoid spankings, which they will get for wrong behaviors. Children have to be taught how to control themselves, and in my experience, children whose parents never spanked them never actually learn self-control. Spanking can teach a child to moderate themselves in order to avoid said spanking... which in my experience seems to work much better than simple conversation regarding etiquette, ethics, behavior, etc.

If done consistently and carefully, along with an explanation as to why the child is getting a spanking, then it can be a useful disciplinary tool.

Not everyone who got spanked (notice: I'm talking about SPANKING... not child abuse) as a child ends up going on mass shooting sprees or ends up beating their wife/kids. In fact, I'd say that damn few of them do.

 

[Poguesy]

Why spanking anyway?

What's wrong with the slipper, belt or hot poker?

 

[monkeysox]

Why spanking anyway?

What's wrong with the slipper, belt or hot poker?

Hot poker ? Why stop there - why not brand them with ' you won't do that again' on the bottom ?

Naughty Pogs LOL

 

[Lonely in BC]

I don't care what anyone says, even toddlers can be reasoned with if the adult in the situation exercises patience.

Simply put, anyone who raises a hand to any part of my child's anatomy can fully expect the same from me. A spanking, a slap, even grabbing them by the arm in frustration is disrespectful (unless you need to remove them from harms way).

I speak from experience- I didn't like the humiliation.

 

[ardour]

I don't care what anyone says, even toddlers can be reasoned with if the adult in the situation exercises patience.

Simply put, anyone who raises a hand to any part of my child's anatomy can fully expect the same from me. A spanking, a slap, even grabbing them by the arm in frustration is disrespectful (unless you need to remove them from harms way).

I speak from experience- I didn't like the humiliation.

It's impossible to parent without some force being used like being able to pick a child up against their will and so forth.

Your'e right, most children can feel empathy, guilt, the problem is that human beings are selfish and thoughtless anyway. Children have to learn right from wrong and lack impluse control and so behave more selfishly, which is why they need 'correction'. Who are you to judge? You have kids? Better an occasional smack than naively raising a sociopath.

 

[Lonely in BC]

I don't care what anyone says, even toddlers can be reasoned with if the adult in the situation exercises patience.

Simply put, anyone who raises a hand to any part of my child's anatomy can fully expect the same from me. A spanking, a slap, even grabbing them by the arm in frustration is disrespectful (unless you need to remove them from harms way).

I speak from experience- I didn't like the humiliation.

It's impossible to parent without some force being used like being able to pick a child up against their will and so forth.

Your'e right, most children can feel empathy, guilt, the problem is that human beings are selfish and thoughtless anyway. Children have to learn right from wrong and lack impluse control and so behave more selfishly, which is why they need 'correction'. Who are you to judge? You have kids? Better an occasional smack than naively raising a sociopath.

Who am I to judge? I'm the father of a ten year old daughter who has never faced the threat of being spanked, slapped, smacked, or whatever "safe" label you choose to justify hitting the defenceless. My daughter is well behaved, polite, good natured and is very welcome in the homes of her peers as their parents find her a positive influence and good natured to be around. Is she perfect- no, not at all but by taking the time to reason with her (thus advocating reasoning skills versus lashing out) she has learned to think of others feelings, consequences for undesirable actions, etc.....

It's with amusement I read the line "Better an occasional smack than naively raising a sociopath"- might I ask what qualifications you have to make such a ridiculous statement? I say ridiculous as I was raised in an environment that involved a great deal of "discipline" to "correct" my behaviour. I can say with complete honesty that those experiences encouraged the extremely cold, uncaring, and violent attitude that I had for over twenty years of my life and that I still struggle with on occasion today at 45- hitting was normal to correct an unappreciated action, word or attitude according to the mentality "Better an occasional smack..." I'm curious, what constitutes your definition of "...occasional..."- Hourly? Daily? Weekly???? Furthermore, what offences justify hitting a kid to enforce "discipline"? Are you consistent with it? Does your particular mood have an effect on severity and rationale behind "a smack". Maybe it's your frustration/mood/attitude that is your determining factor? Hitting is not "...correction..." as you indicate, hitting in that context is disrespect.

Anyhow, I simply do not agree with it- it's degrading, soul destroying, and not necessary.

P.S.- I'm no bleeding heart following a social conscience, I'm just a devoted Dad...

 

[ardour]

I don't have kids, and I'm happy to leave judgements around discipline in the hands those who do.

This has been said a few posts back. No it doesn't seem appropriate as some lazy go-to punishment for disobedience, or to vent frustration, but it might be valid display of disapproval if things really get out of hand. The "hitting is bad" argument is simplistic, but I guess it's understandable from someone who was hit for just about anything.

It's nice that you have well behaved daughter, but children can't all be the same and your experieces from being on the receiving end of physical punishment aren't applicable to every parent who has ever spanked their kids either.... quite arrogant to think personal experiences are somehow universal.

 

[monkeysox]

I just googled if violence in childhood causes or risks Sociopathic behaviour - this is just one result of many saying 'Yes'

Child Abuse and Neglect
Children who were abused by their parents or caretakers may suffer serious consequences later in life. The chance of becoming a sociopath increases when a child is subjected to this type of mistreatment. A child who has distant and uncaring parents is also at risk. Donald Black, M.D., of PsychCentral explains that children with this type of care-taking often fail to form attachments to their parents or caretakers, making it more difficult to form these bonds with others later in life. Parents who are unavailable often provide little supervision or rules. This results in a child who hasn't learned the importance of following rules, whether at home, school or in society. Abusive, neglectful or absent parents fail to be good role models for the child to follow into adulthood. Children who constantly move from home to home, such as in foster care, are also at risk due to the lack of attachment to others.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/99456-causes-sociopathic-behavior/#ixzz2EywdvAZg

I have known one sociopath, he had a childhood that involved too much physical discipline. Cant see how finding alternative discipline measures to physical discipline would cause a sociopath.