Men - do you feel yourself becoming an 'incel'?

[FlynnRyder]

There's picky and then there is reasonable.
Would you want to pair off with a Rosie O'Donnell lookalike?

This comment is offensive to me on so many levels.
If we are talking about Rosie O'Donnell today, whose fashion style combined with her physical features come off as very masculine, then yeah, as a cis hetero male, she wouldn't be my cup of tea. fortunately for her, she's not presenting herself in a way that's meant to attract men like me. good on her.
Now if we are talking about rosie o'donnell back in her heyday, when she was doing movies and a hit daytime talk show, that wouldn't be totally out of the ball park for me and a lot of other people. dude, she was on t.v. and if she was someone who is ghastly to look out, she wouldn't have been given the opportunities she had been given, at the time she was given, in the most cosmetically demanding profession in our society.
yes, she was plus size, but variety is the spice of life, there are big people, there are small people, and that's fine. not every female is going to be A list actress thin, and if your idea of beauty is just the barbie doll supermodels, I feel sorry for you (kind of), you're too far gone.
There's also another point about the dating experience that toxic masculinity tricks you into not realizing: women are human beings! There's a whole another experience dealing with a partner outside of just their physical features. People can have an aura about them that makes them attractive even they might be outside the ideal in the physical department. there's a thing called chemistry that works wonders for your enjoyment of a romantic partner.

 

[TheSkaFish]

The older I get, the more I think that we shouldn't shame each other for looks, men, women, anyone.

If you aren't attracted to a person, that is OK, but there is no need to act as though a person's looks offend you personally, and need to be responded to as if they were an insult.

(General "you" here, not calling out anyone in particular.)

Often times, a person can't do anything about their looks, it's just what you're born with.
You can do some things, style yourself, get a good hairdo, things like that.
But you can't easily change your face, or something along those lines.
And not everyone's metabolism is the same either, so it can be hard to lose (or in some cases, gain) weight.

I mean, I'm guilty of this as well.
In my teens, 20s and even when I got here, my thinking was not too unlike a "bro" -
I only wanted "the hot chicks", and the idea of being with anyone else, I took it almost like an offense.
I'm sure I made some off-color comments that were, not great to say the least.
But in time I changed my mind.
It was nothing to do with "giving up" or "lowering my standards".
It was everything to do with, a person growing on me because I realized they made me feel good and I cared for them.
I've fallen for women who, if I was just going on looks and nothing else, I might have missed.
And I've fallen for women just from talking, before I even know what they look like - even if sometimes they are outside what I think of as my physical "type".

TL;DR I am for less unnecessary meanness, in general. The world is plenty mean enough. Let's not add to it.

 

[ardour]

NM

 

[ardour]

This comment is offensive to me on so many levels.
If we are talking about Rosie O'Donnell today, whose fashion style combined with her physical features come off as very masculine, then yeah, as a cis hetero male, she wouldn't be my cup of tea. fortunately for her, she's not presenting herself in a way that's meant to attract men like me. good on her.
Now if we are talking about rosie o'donnell back in her heyday, when she was doing movies and a hit daytime talk show, that wouldn't be totally out of the ball park for me and a lot of other people. dude, she was on t.v. and if she was someone who is ghastly to look out, she wouldn't have been given the opportunities she had been given, at the time she was given, in the most cosmetically demanding profession in our society.
yes, she was plus size, but variety is the spice of life, there are big people, there are small people, and that's fine. not every female is going to be A list actress thin, and if your idea of beauty is just the barbie doll supermodels, I feel sorry for you (kind of), you're too far gone.
There's also another point about the dating experience that toxic masculinity tricks you into not realizing: women are human beings! There's a whole another experience dealing with a partner outside of just their physical features. People can have an aura about them that makes them attractive even they might be outside the ideal in the physical department. there's a thing called chemistry that works wonders for your enjoyment of a romantic partner.

I think I speak for a lot of men by saying that it's impossible for attraction to form from nothing. There's got to be some innate attraction and arguing like that isn't necessary isn't realistic. What if you just can't force it despite enjoying someone's company at a platonic level?

Rosie O'Donnell in the 90s wasn't unattractive i.e. bad looking or anything, but she's not particularly feminine there either. Some men would be attracted. And yeah it's rude and offensive, but honesty often is. Our grandparents usually looked slim and more masculine/feminine in their 40s, 50s, 60s than people of the same age do now.

 

[Unsigned]

Now if we are talking about rosie o'donnell back in her heyday

I'm talking about any version of her.

variety is the spice of life

Correct. And I was simply voicing my opinion and using a famous person as an example.

if your idea of beauty is just the barbie doll supermodels, I feel sorry for you (kind of), you're too far gone.

I certainly am, and have been for a very long time.

toxic masculinity

Ok, you lost me on that one.
I just don't buy into that entire concept and never will.

Have a nice weekend.

 

[TheRealCallie]

You are all aware that Rosie is a lesbian, right? She wouldn't give any man the time of day , regardless of looks or anything else. (at least not romantically)

One friend of a friend in her mid 40s and almost certainly an alcoholic, tried to force drinks down me for hours then get me to stay the night at hers. One date with a woman in her early thirties. As soon as I stupidly mentioned not having had a serious relationship before, she started looking at me like I was something she stepped in and that was that.

I'm talking about actually being in a relationship and all the life skills and adjustments that go with that.

So you can and have gotten dates before. Whether they ended badly or not isn't the point. You have to date to be able to find the person you can stand being with. And okay, I'm sorry, but you claim you've had only TWO dates and you refuse to live in the present. So, let me ask this. How the hell do you even know what you really want? Doesn't sound like you've given anyone a chance.

With several of you here, it's just all one big double standard. You complain about how shallow women are, but you are just as shallow as you claim women are. You will never get what you want when all you do is make excuses and never give anyone a chance. Yeah, I get it "I'm old, there's no changing me now" Which is also BS, you can change yourself at any age. And don't come back on me saying that I said you have to change everything about you, you all know what I mean, I've said it often enough.


ETA...I never finished my though. lol
I get it, you have it in your mind that it's so horrible you missed your 20's or whatever, but that was also partly your choice. Yes, yes, I get it, life threw you lemons, hit you in the head and made you cry. You had crap going on that was partly out of your control, but can you really say there was NOTHING you could have done to give yourself at least a partial life? I don't buy it at all if you say there was nothing.
And as for no one in a relationship knowing your perspective. Sure, I will grant you that if that person has been in a happy relationship and there's not really any major problems in the relationship, which is actually pretty damn rare. But just like they don't know your perspective, you also don't know the perspective about people in situations like mine. But hey, I guess I could have left at any time, right? It's my own fault?
We all have our excuses, we all use them to get out of doing what we don't want to do. Until you let go of those excuses and just do it, you'll never get anywhere. That choice is yours, doesn't matter what age you are, doesn't matter how much experience you have. Continue to make excuses or do something about it.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

With several of you here, it's just all one big double standard. You complain about how shallow women are, but you are just as shallow as you claim women are. You will never get what you want when all you do is make excuses and never give anyone a chance. Yeah, I get it "I'm old, there's no changing me now" Which is also BS, you can change yourself at any age. And don't come back on me saying that I said you have to change everything about you, you all know what I mean, I've said it often enough.


ETA...I never finished my though. lol
I get it, you have it in your mind that it's so horrible you missed your 20's or whatever, but that was also partly your choice. Yes, yes, I get it, life threw you lemons, hit you in the head and made you cry. You had crap going on that was partly out of your control, but can you really say there was NOTHING you could have done to give yourself at least a partial life? I don't buy it at all if you say there was nothing.
And as for no one in a relationship knowing your perspective. Sure, I will grant you that if that person has been in a happy relationship and there's not really any major problems in the relationship, which is actually pretty damn rare. But just like they don't know your perspective, you also don't know the perspective about people in situations like mine. But hey, I guess I could have left at any time, right? It's my own fault?
We all have our excuses, we all use them to get out of doing what we don't want to do. Until you let go of those excuses and just do it, you'll never get anywhere. That choice is yours, doesn't matter what age you are, doesn't matter how much experience you have. Continue to make excuses or do something about it.

I take umbrage to this. It's not that I accuse women of being shallow, if you don't find someone attractive, then you don't find them attractive, it is what it is. I'm certainly not shallow myself, I'm not turning away women who I believe are unattractive, I'm not turning away anyone at the moment!

I suppose if you think of it like buying a house, you pick the things that are most important to you, then compromise on others. So for me, the most important things would be for a woman to have no kids, and have high levels of energy. I want to be able to go away for a long weekend without much notice, or wake up on a Saturday and go paddleboarding because I can. I want to have "The Fun Years" before I settle down, same as anyone else. Other factors, such as looks, money or intelligence, are far less important to me. I would take a "less attractive" person who fits that bill, over an attractive woman who can't come out because she's got kids.

 

[ardour]

You are all aware that Rosie is a lesbian, right? She wouldn't give any man the time of day , regardless of looks or anything else. (at least not romantically)



So you can and have gotten dates before. Whether they ended badly or not isn't the point. You have to date to be able to find the person you can stand being with. And okay, I'm sorry, but you claim you've had only TWO dates and you refuse to live in the present. So, let me ask this. How the hell do you even know what you really want? Doesn't sound like you've given anyone a chance.

With several of you here, it's just all one big double standard. You complain about how shallow women are, but you are just as shallow as you claim women are. You will never get what you want when all you do is make excuses and never give anyone a chance. Yeah, I get it "I'm old, there's no changing me now" Which is also BS, you can change yourself at any age. And don't come back on me saying that I said you have to change everything about you, you all know what I mean, I've said it often enough.


ETA...I never finished my though. lol
I get it, you have it in your mind that it's so horrible you missed your 20's or whatever, but that was also partly your choice. Yes, yes, I get it, life threw you lemons, hit you in the head and made you cry. You had crap going on that was partly out of your control, but can you really say there was NOTHING you could have done to give yourself at least a partial life? I don't buy it at all if you say there was nothing.
And as for no one in a relationship knowing your perspective. Sure, I will grant you that if that person has been in a happy relationship and there's not really any major problems in the relationship, which is actually pretty damn rare. But just like they don't know your perspective, you also don't know the perspective about people in situations like mine. But hey, I guess I could have left at any time, right? It's my own fault?
We all have our excuses, we all use them to get out of doing what we don't want to do. Until you let go of those excuses and just do it, you'll never get anywhere. That choice is yours, doesn't matter what age you are, doesn't matter how much experience you have. Continue to make excuses or do something about it.

They have their standards. I can lament not meeting them, describe what that feels like without implying they are bad people. The woman who looked down her nose at me isn't evil, she's just a person and people judge each other all the time. Obviously I have my own standards that are totally unrealistic for where I am in life now.

 

[TheRealCallie]

if you don't find someone attractive, then you don't find them attractive, it is what it is.

Is it though? If you have no experience and put something in your head (or society put it in your head) about what is and is not attractive and refuse to deviate from it or get to know any other type of person, how do you know what you really want? It's like you've brainwashed yourself into thinking you will ONLY be attracted to one type of person.
Now I'm not saying this will apply to EVERYONE. It obviously won't, but there are several here that I think it does apply to. It's too early in the morning to remember everything, but I'm not sure you fall into that category. I should wait til I have more coffee in me for this, but I think your issue is self fulfilling prophecy. Because you think other people think you're ugly, I think you project that out into the world and that causes people to not want to get to know you in a romantic capacity. (obviously these are just my opinions based on what you write, I could be completely wrong)

Yes, I get it, attraction is everything to some people, but while attraction may not come from NOTHING, it can come with getting to know someone better and having an open mind. I'm not saying date someone you find positively grotesque, I'm just saying give other people a chance to show you what you might be missing.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Now I'm not saying this will apply to EVERYONE. It obviously won't, but there are several here that I think it does apply to. It's too early in the morning to remember everything, but I'm not sure you fall into that category. I should wait til I have more coffee in me for this, but I think your issue is self fulfilling prophecy. Because you think other people think you're ugly, I think you project that out into the world and that causes people to not want to get to know you in a romantic capacity. (obviously these are just my opinions based on what you write, I could be completely wrong)

Yes, I get it, attraction is everything to some people, but while attraction may not come from NOTHING, it can come with getting to know someone better and having an open mind. I'm not saying date someone you find positively grotesque, I'm just saying give other people a chance to show you what you might be missing.

Well, that's your theory, and I'm not sure what I can say to dissuade you from that, but all I can say from this side is that it's just not true. I'm fairly happy and confident in social settings, I only really ask someone out if I think it's likely she might say yes, and obviously being in an interaction where you think someone likes you, makes you feel good. I'm turned down when I feel good and projecting positivity, I'm also turned down over photos, where I cannot be saying the wrong thing or projecting negatively etc.

 

[HellsLittleAngel]

Dictionary Definition of Incel: A member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active.

Like I had stated previously, this is a personal preference and choice. Stop being jealous over what you don't have. If you want something bad enough, make different choices.

 

[HellsLittleAngel]

An incel is someone who is involuntarily celibate. It means they want to have sex but are unable. Usually this is because of confidence issues and how they dress/present themselves more than anything else. It can apply to men or women.

You got this "involuntarily celibate" from urban dictionary, which isn't a real dictionary. Why not get valuable resources from reputable websites.

 

[okidoke]

Dictionary Definition of Incel: A member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active.

Like I had stated previously, this is a personal preference and choice. Stop being jealous over what you don't have. If you want something bad enough, make different choices.

I’m not arguing your post, but what word is used to describe an older guy who can’t attract women? And just that. Not adding the hostile stuff and online community part.

Am genuinely asking

 

[HellsLittleAngel]

I’m not arguing your post, but what word is used to describe an older guy who can’t attract women? And just that. Not adding the hostile stuff and online community part.

Am genuinely asking

I don't even like the word incel, but I don't think there's a specific word for that. I think there's someone out there for everyone, but we all have to try and put our foot forward, or some just come naturally to us.

 

[Ace Face]

Dictionary Definition of Incel: A member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active.

Like I had stated previously, this is a personal preference and choice. Stop being jealous over what you don't have. If you want something bad enough, make different choices.

Good definition by the way how is Okidoke

 

[ardour]

I’m not arguing your post, but what word is used to describe an older guy who can’t attract women? And just that. Not adding the hostile stuff and online community part.

Am genuinely asking

Oldcel.

 

[HellsLittleAngel]

Good definition by the way how is Okidoke

I have no idea how he is. But, this is the true definition of the word, when people are trying to read up on urban dictionary to get other responses, it's crazy to me. The word itself is childish.