On-line daters watch out for "nice guy syndrome."

[Alonewith2cats]

But a nice person is not going to tell you to go to hell. You have a choice. You can either accept the friendship or decline it and neither one of these decisions is wrong. If you are really crushing on someone and you can't handle being friends you are not to blame for choosing to distance yourself from the person. If you can handle being friends with a girl you were initially interested in who knows what doors it might open for you because the larger your social network the more opportunities. What if she has a friend who is perfect for you?

---

Oh yes, that sucks. People will reveal their true intentions in time, if they truly want your friendship or are only saying this to soften the blow of rejection. Real friendship is something to treasure.

I also aim to only use this phrase on people I genuinely want to be friends with. But I can't say I've never used this phrase on someone as a polite rejection before. I try not to.

I think actions speak louder than words regarding if someone really wants to be your friend.

---

Eh, the thing is, it's going to hurt not getting the one I want, especially when it seemed like we could really get along, you know? Whatever opportunities I get from it won't mean a whole lot, since it's settling for someone who is just okay. She may have a friend who is perfect for me, but it would be hard to seriously date them when the only reason I'm doing so is because I couldn't get the one I want. It still means I'm not attractive - it means I'm just okay myself, and I don't want to play the part of a just okay person. I'd consider that a wasted life. Winners don't get rejected.

Either way, good on you for mostly saying that phrase when you actually mean it. That's a lot better than most women do. When people say things they don't mean, it only adds to the confusion of life.

---

Ok, you don't have to take the friendship path with her then. Either choice you make is fine. Try not to focus so much on any one woman who rejected you. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Winners do get rejected until they win.

 

[thenameIwanthasgone]

Nice guy syndrome. I used to be a nice guy. Do any of you remember that guy who said: "No more Mister Nice Guy!" ?

 

[VanillaCreme]

Usually it is someone I already know, enough to know that I like both the looks and the character of the girl.

Are they friends? Do you usually fall for friends in the first place?

 

[ardour]

Many guys, I want to believe that, also have feelings aside than physical desire, they enjoy company, chat, banter and whatnot, and they would prefer to be just friends with a really cool girl instead of cutting all contact unless the girl doesn't want to sleep with them (those guys, let me tell you, don't have many cool friends). So the shame of being "friendzoned" is really just dependent on how much a guy actually cares for a girl. If he does, he knows there is no shame in being friends, and another girl who wants to be with them will come along, and he is no less of a man because he kept contact with the first girl (unless of course he was playing the doormat, that's the image we have of a guy who gets "friend zoned", if for example she asks him to drive she and her date around he will be quite justified in letting her go). Actually a guy like that, who likes women not just when they will sleep with him, is much more of a man, because real men have feelings too. Only really mature guys probably think like this, and (mature) girls love them.

I agree here, there's nothing shameful about the "friendzone". Being genuinely considered a friend is a compliment.

It's when there's an assumption that underneath you must be some irksome individual after no-strings sex. Just some unattractive male trying to surreptitiously weezle his way into their affections via a false nice/caring manner because he has no other cards to play. We hear this a lot (sure sometimes it's deserved.) I'm more bitter about being dismissed as the equivalent of a "nice guy" early on, than a lack of mutual interest or the fact of being single.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Ok, you don't have to take the friendship path with her then. Either choice you make is fine. Try not to focus so much on any one woman who rejected you. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Winners do get rejected until they win.

The thing is, I really want to change her mind someday. Or at least, influence her to change her mind by cleaning up my act and becoming a more appealing guy. I want to show her I'm worthy of a second chance and that we could have a lot of fun together.

I do have to focus on the small amount of women that actually have all of what I desire. I don't want to compromise, because that doesn't lead to the best possible life. There are indeed plenty of fish in the sea, but I'd say the vast majority are mediocre and I wouldn't enjoy them at all. I'd be bored with them and angry at life that I was not strong enough to break through the limits. I'd just feel like I'm a loser like anyone else, only getting what I'm given. Not someone who gets to choose, who gets to create and live the awesome life of their dreams.

I'm really not an arrogant jerk. I just want to live my life on purpose. So many people just seem to flounder their way through life, and their lives look very boring and unsatisfying, they look stuck - stuck in boring jobs, stuck in boring relationships, stuck being unattractive, stuck being boring people not truly living but just waiting to expire. They aren't with someone they really want, they are with someone who is all they thought they could get. I'd hate that. It would feel like I had one life and I blew it. I want to have it all. I want to look back and actually like who I was.

---

Are they friends? Do you usually fall for friends in the first place?

Sort of. They are more like acquaintances, where we might not be super-friends, but we do know each other at least a little bit, have been on speaking terms, and know enough about each other to know we have interests in common, stuff to talk about. I already know I like their looks but I also know enough about their personality to know that we can talk, and that I would really enjoy spending time with them. The one that hurt me the most had been my friend, at least that's what she said to me.

By contrast, I don't really fall for someone that I don't know anything about. Without knowing them more, there's no motivation.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

Well, here is an update. OK Cupid guy just sent a message to my friend on OK Cupid. I told her she can have him if she wants and that it doesn't affect me at all if she dates him. However, she won't do it because of the girl code and because I also shared this story with her. It's either a small world or he wants sex so bad he is messaging every girl on the site.

 

[barky]

Based on the thread comments, I've concluded Nice Guy is, in fact, a ******.

Alonewith2cats ~ Feel for you. I say put this runt behind you as best you can, and keep at it with online dating. We men may struggle there, but I've heard plenty of cute connections. It's trying, but keep fighting the good fight and you'll make one as well.

Ska ~ Relations with the opposite sex are complicated, for both people. I've been where you're at and may wind up there future times. I know how frustrating it can be to do what feel like the right actions and still not connect with someone I really like.
I've found getting busy with an activity you're passionate about is a great vice. Starting such can be annoying at first, but within a month, you may find you're focus is no longer preoccupied with thoughts of relationships, etc. Those never go away entirely, and can rarely be rationalized, but you'll have less time to dwell because of your new hobby.
And the kicker is that you'll likely find yourself attracting more women by forgetting the analytics. A full life is magnetic for onlookers. Maybe in time, a newly embraced passion could bring the other thing that's desired: reciprocated affection.

 

[kamya]

There's a girl code?

 

[TheSkaFish]

Ska ~ Relations with the opposite sex are complicated, for both people. I've been where you're at and may wind up there future times. I know how frustrating it can be to do what feel like the right actions and still not connect with someone I really like.
I've found getting busy with an activity you're passionate about is a great vice. Starting such can be annoying at first, but within a month, you may find you're focus is no longer preoccupied with thoughts of relationships, etc. Those never go away entirely, and can rarely be rationalized, but you'll have less time to dwell because of your new hobby.
And the kicker is that you'll likely find yourself attracting more women by forgetting the analytics. A full life is magnetic for onlookers. Maybe in time, a newly embraced passion could bring the other thing that's desired: reciprocated affection.

What really sucks is when you think you are connecting and have been for months and months, because they've been acting like it. I see what you mean by taking up a hobby, I've been neglecting mine for a while now because I've been feeling pretty bad. It's probably part of the reason I didn't get what I wanted - because she became my main interest, so that must have come off as dependent. Still, I can only hope to attract her back somehow. I have to keep analyzing, because if I leave it up to chance I'll just get whatever, not what I want. I know the value of a full life, it's one of the traits I've observed in guys who have no trouble attracting the women they want to be with. But even if I could attract more women, as long as they are not the ones I want, it's worthless. I just have to find a way to solve this friendzone problem and be attractive to the ones I want in my life.

Thanks for offering a boost of self-esteem - I think you're right about the hobbies. But I've also just got to be able to break out of the friendzone. I need to do it, in order to be the one I want to be.

 

[Limlim]

I wish to know more about this girl code

 

[VanillaCreme]

What really sucks is when you think you are connecting and have been for months and months, because they've been acting like it. I see what you mean by taking up a hobby, I've been neglecting mine for a while now because I've been feeling pretty bad. It's probably part of the reason I didn't get what I wanted - because she became my main interest, so that must have come off as dependent. Still, I can only hope to attract her back somehow. I have to keep analyzing, because if I leave it up to chance I'll just get whatever, not what I want. I know the value of a full life, it's one of the traits I've observed in guys who have no trouble attracting the women they want to be with. But even if I could attract more women, as long as they are not the ones I want, it's worthless. I just have to find a way to solve this friendzone problem and be attractive to the ones I want in my life.

Thanks for offering a boost of self-esteem - I think you're right about the hobbies. But I've also just got to be able to break out of the friendzone. I need to do it, in order to be the one I want to be.

It really seems like you think of women as an object to win. Like we're all in a glass box and the little spider arm won't pick up the exact one you want. And you refuse to accept the little pink elephant it picked up because you wanted the blue monkey. I can't help but think this, especially when I read things like:

Eh, the thing is, it's going to hurt not getting the one I want, especially when it seemed like we could really get along, you know? Whatever opportunities I get from it won't mean a whole lot, since it's settling for someone who is just okay. She may have a friend who is perfect for me, but it would be hard to seriously date them when the only reason I'm doing so is because I couldn't get the one I want. It still means I'm not attractive - it means I'm just okay myself, and I don't want to play the part of a just okay person. I'd consider that a wasted life. Winners don't get rejected.

I'm still not truly understanding how you mean. I don't understand that mentality of "winning" people. But I'm pretty damn sure you don't mean to be harsh about it. In my opinion, you just kind of are. By all means, you can simply roll your eyes at my post and move on, but that's just what it seems like to me.

 

[TheSkaFish]

It really seems like you think of women as an object to win. Like we're all in a glass box and the little spider arm won't pick up the exact one you want. And you refuse to accept the little pink elephant it picked up because you wanted the blue monkey...


I'm still not truly understanding how you mean. I don't understand that mentality of "winning" people. But I'm pretty damn sure you don't mean to be harsh about it. In my opinion, you just kind of are. By all means, you can simply roll your eyes at my post and move on, but that's just what it seems like to me.

No. I don't mean to be harsh about it. I'm just once again expressing it in the wrong way.

You're correct in saying that I want to aim myself at specific people. And I do understand that a relationship is a meeting of the hearts and minds. I don't think of women as objects to win, I think of them as people. But just like how I have a hard time explaining what I really mean in these posts, I have a hard time showing these girls, with words, that we could be good together. Words aren't doing the trick. I'm not coming across to them how I want to come across. It's like - in my mind I know how to throw a ball. But my arms haven't mastered the motion yet. This is part of why I'm frustrated. I wish I could let them look in my mind and heart and see what I feel.

"Winning" them is just a way I have of condensing what I mean - that is, showing and expressing to them that we could be good together. Saying and doing the right things to show them that. Because we've got enough common interests and we both know we can get along. I'm just not communicating effectively and it's leading to them misunderstanding. So it looks like I'm not putting my best foot forward. You know? It's like, I wouldn't be lame on purpose. If I come off as lame, it's because I don't know I'm doing it. But I don't want to be lame, I wouldn't knowingly act in an unattractive way.

It's like, say I described an art exhibit to you, and I really encouraged you to go see it. But because I described it poorly, it didn't sound cool to you, you didn't think it was worth your time, you didn't think you'd enjoy it. However, had you gone, you would have been completely amazed. But you didn't go because you didn't take my word for it, and that was all you had to go on. See what I mean?

 

[ardour]

I have to agree with VanillaCreme. I hope you don't express yourself that way in real life because it isn't going to go down well.

 

[Wicked Jae]

That's right, you watch out for us nice guys! Well do rotten things like bake your favorite cookies. Or we might listen to you problems and expect nothing in return. Possibly even rub your shoulders and ask about your day! Oh the humanity!!! lol Seriously though, not all of us have ulterior motives. Sometimes, we just want to do nice things for others.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

I wish to know more about this girl code

Should I tell you or keep it a big mystery since it's such a mystery to you???

It's not. All it is, it's a friendship code among women. We are not to date anyone who our friends have dated or were first to express an interest in. And even when it's not a threat to the female friendship bond, women learn about men from their friends experiences with them and don't want to repeat theirs. So girl code means only date men who none of your friends have ever dated or considered dating.

 

[Ymir]

I wish to know more about this girl code

Should I tell you or keep it a big mystery since it's such a mystery to you???

It's not. All it is, it's a friendship code among women. We are not to date anyone who our friends have dated or were first to express an interest in. And even when it's not a threat to the female friendship bond, women learn about men from their friends experiences with them and don't want to repeat theirs. So girl code means only date men who none of your friends have ever dated or considered dating.

That's so weirddddddddd

 

[ladyforsaken]

That's right, you watch out for us nice guys! Well do rotten things like bake your favorite cookies. Or we might listen to you problems and expect nothing in return. Possibly even rub your shoulders and ask about your day! Oh the humanity!!! lol Seriously though, not all of us have ulterior motives. Sometimes, we just want to do nice things for others.

I believe so too.

 

[barky]

I like to think that code is similar for guys as well, ie. the bro/gentleman's code. It's classy to clear a relationship involving a friend's ex or interest.

And ha! Well said WickedJae .

VanillaCreme & ardour ~ I feel Ska is simply trying to understand his dilemma so he can improve upon it. I can see how the wording of the posts may appear to objectify women, but the tone of them leaves me to think he means well.

Ska ~ Would you consider yourself a perfectionist? I feel that kind of baser motivation could explain why you're being so hard on yourself. A saying that comes to mind goes something like:
If you chase a butterfly, it will forever elude you. Yet if you let it be, it will land softly on your shoulder.
Fight that instinct to make things happen my friend! I've struggled with it, and get it's easy said than done. But see if you can give it a try. Maybe continue to work out your thoughts here, but then leave them with us and just live what comes your way when away from the forum.
It'll come.

And regarding the whole nice-guy riddle, I found a great explanation in a movie (of all places ). Check the conversation between the three main characters in their hotel lobby in "Up in the Air", about 3/4 of the way thru. That instigated my "aha!" moment for the topic.

 

[ardour]

That's right, you watch out for us nice guys! Well do rotten things like bake your favorite cookies. Or we might listen to you problems and expect nothing in return. Possibly even rub your shoulders and ask about your day! Oh the humanity!!! lol Seriously though, not all of us have ulterior motives. Sometimes, we just want to do nice things for others.

Warning : never put your hands on a woman's shoulders without the request in writing and her signature.

 

[Case]

That's right, you watch out for us nice guys! Well do rotten things like bake your favorite cookies. Or we might listen to you problems and expect nothing in return. Possibly even rub your shoulders and ask about your day! Oh the humanity!!! lol Seriously though, not all of us have ulterior motives. Sometimes, we just want to do nice things for others.

Warning : never put your hands on a woman's shoulder's without the request in writing and her signature.

Oh, you romantic, you.