Questions for the Women

[Xpendable]

I've got a couple questions.

The other day I was reading an article in which someone said, they believed that for men who want to attract women, you have to be a smart-ass in order to create attraction. I define a smart-ass as someone who is cocky, cynical, sarcastic, hostile, disrespectful, and rude, who likes to mock things, put things down, and be rebellious and antagonistic towards anything and everything. When I thought about what I'd observed, this made sense. Now, most of my friends are in relationships or have been in relationships at some point, and they are not smart-asses - but also, they experienced significant failures trying to get a girlfriend or had to wait a long time before anyone was interested in them. None of my friends had girlfriends when most guys started dating.

When I think about all the people I have ever come across, it's definitely been true that the nicer, friendlier guys tend to have a harder time getting a girlfriend whereas the smart-asses always had and still have an easy time getting someone, and if they don't have a girlfriend, it's because they want to be a player or because they don't feel like having a girlfriend. But if they changed their minds, they could get one easily.

Me, on the other hand, have always been described as nice, sweet, warm, cheerful, "sunny", and friendly - all traits that seem to be considered feminine, unmanly, and unattractive to women. I've heard it said many times that these traits are a romantic buzzkill, and snuff out any form of sexual attraction. I've been told that I'm too good, too "shiny", which women think of as being a wuss. Obviously I don't want to be thought of as a wuss but what am I supposed to do, start acting meaner? Start knowingly being a worse person? Being nice, sweet, friendly and so on is all I know how to be. It makes sense to me. When I care about someone in any capacity, I want to be nice to them. I am nice in general, I want to be happy, I don't like to mock and attack things for no reason. I feel good when I promote the things I like, and this goes for people too. I've never been the kind of guy that mocks a girl to show that he likes her, that's never seemed natural to me. It's the golden rule, treat others the way you want them to treat you. It's me casting my vote for what I want the world to be like. I have never been a smart-ass, and not only that, but I strongly dislike that kind of person.

I've also never been very rebellious - there are only a few things that I am interested in that would fall under that category. Besides, being rebellious would probably have gotten me disowned and cost me all my friends. It never seemed worth it. It never even seemed fun in and of itself. I've never felt any need to rebel before. I was never rich and never really had luxury, but always comfortable and always had more to lose by acting that way than I had to gain.

The other thing is, I've never been blatantly sexual either. I've just never felt comfortable acting that way, and I just don't want to because I think it's trashy and I want to be respectable in my own way. But at the same time, regardless of how friendly I am or my interests or anything else, I'm still a 29 year old straight man with all of the desires you might imagine someone like me to have. I'm not asexual and I'm not a little boy. This is why it makes me mad when people say that niceness is a sexual buzzkill. I'm nice, not dense. There's a difference.

Now, I'm not asking if you have to be a "bad boy" again. A smart-ass is like the watered-down, more socially acceptable version of that who isn't necessarily a criminal or a druggie but still has an antagonistic, clashing personality. But does a guy have to be at least somewhat of a smart-ass in order for you to feel attraction?

Can a woman be excited by a guy who isn't a smart-ass?

Also, slightly different question - does a guy have to be a risk-taker in order to be attractive?

I've also noticed that risk-takers get a lot of attention. Again this could be people who commit crimes and do dangerous drugs, but also extreme sports, motorcycling, stuff like that. I'm not necessarily opposed to the latter as I am to the former, but at the same time, I don't feel a particularly strong calling to do those things and they tend to cost a lot of money to get into anyway.

I'll resume the answers:

"Every woman is different so you can't generalize".

"None of that stuff is attractive to me"

"I can't stand asshloes"

"I prefer a nice man every time"

"Women who prefer those men have low self-esteem"

"You don't have to be cocky, you just have to be [insert ambigous balance between the two]"

---

 

[TheSkaFish]

Skafish, obviously not a woman here but:

1) Do you have a job? Seem to remember you saying you were unemployed.

2) Ever consider asking this on a forum with a wider range of people? For example dating site forums or 'guys ask girls' etc. Some of the responses to these sort of questions are surprisingly insightful, believe it or not.

It's okay. I appreciate anyone who is honestly trying to be helpful.

To answer your first question, no, I still don't have a job and yes, I do realize that this is probably at least part of my problem in being attractive. I do realize that not having a job comes off as lazy, irresponsible, not in control of my life and directionless, which are all things that women don't really like in a guy and I don't really blame them for that. I get that it's something I can and should fix, and that you need money to support hobbies and interests that make you interesting in the first place, and you need money to go on dates. Free dates can be fun, but it can't be all you do. I understand that much. Heck, I can't even go out and do stuff with my guy friends, and my car fell into disrepair. I really wish I had asked myself these hard questions 10 years ago, questions like what do I value, what do I want to be when I grow up, what kind of person do I want to be, and so on.

One thing I have noticed is that the fear I have in the job world is the same fear I have with my interests and with women. I don't work as hard as I could because I'm afraid that no matter how hard I work to try to learn and understand and do well, I'm just never going to get anywhere because it's just beyond me. It's the fear of being stuck at the bottom, because even though I'm nice and smart or so I'm told, lots of nice and smart people don't make it. The fear of being fundamentally not good enough. This has been my lifelong enemy.

To answer your second question, I actually have asked questions on some of those other sites before, and I agree that sometimes the answers can be helpful. The problem is though, I find that it's easier for questions to get lost in the shuffle on those sites while here, I feel that there is a pretty good chance of people seeing my questions. I also like the sense of community here. I feel that for the most part, we want to see other ALL members do well.

---

I'll resume the answers:

"Every woman is different so you can't generalize".

"None of that stuff is attractive to me"

"I can't stand asshloes"

"I prefer a nice man every time"

"Women who prefer those men have low self-esteem"

"You don't have to be cocky, you just have to be [insert ambigous balance between the two]"

Yeah, that's what I was saying. It's really hard to find this balance. You hear all kinds of answers, but real life then contradicts those answers and you don't know what to do. It's clear as fog, I say. I've tried to figure this out, but still don't know anything for sure. All I know is, I don't THINK I'm just fundamentally undeserving of female companionship. I'm not that bad of a person. I know I could use some work, but I'm not terrible. Ugh. If only I had just a little bit of proof that I was moving in the right direction.

 

[ardour]

To answer your first question, no, I still don't have a job and yes, I do realize that this is probably at least part of my problem in being attractive.

I would say it's the primary reason. You're 29 and unemployed. Don't want to be harsh here but women aren't going to be lining up no matter what your personal qualities.

Forget about women for a while and make finding a job and career goals top priority. Otherwise it's just spinning your wheels.

 

[TheSkaFish]

To answer your first question, no, I still don't have a job and yes, I do realize that this is probably at least part of my problem in being attractive.

I would say it's the primary reason. You're 29 and unemployed. Don't want to be harsh here but women aren't going to be lining up no matter what your personal qualities.

Forget about women for a while and make finding a job and career goals top priority. Otherwise it's just spinning your wheels.

No, I suppose they are not. I just wish I knew what kind of job I could do that I could at least be okay with, in terms of pay, interest, and what it would do to my mood. No women would want to go out with a guy who is always angry and in victim mode because he is poor, but also, there probably aren't a lot of women who want to go out with a guy who is better off and not necessarily a victim, but still angry due to stress and having no time to pursue his true interests. And most women probably don't want to date a boring guy whether he is poor, rich, or anywhere in between. At least, I don't think I'd want to date the kind of woman that would want to date a boring guy, if that makes sense, because she's probably boring herself and wouldn't inspire me to keep reaching, to keep trying to be interesting and good at the things I like, to keep trying to be who I want to be. I wish I could figure out a job that paid me enough to hold my head up high and not feel like a victim, and left me enough time to pursue my real interests with the hope of becoming successful enough at them to leave the job behind, or at least good enough at them to say that these interests are something that I actually do and am good at, that are actually a part of who I am and enough to be an interesting person myself.

The other problem is, there is almost no one left that I'd want to date anymore. By the time I get a respectable job, there could very well be no one left that I'd actually enjoy being with. I worry about this often.

My plan has been to try to get to know someone while I look for a job. Anyone I have actually liked have been women I met online who live far away. I've found them to be much more attractive, interesting, and my kind of girl than any of the local women on the dating sites, any women I've gone to school with, or anyone who's ever shown up to any of my friends' parties.

I'm not mad at your response or yelling at you or anything like that. You're absolutely right. It's like I said, I really needed to do all this 10 years ago.

 

[ardour]

No, I suppose they are not. I just wish I knew what kind of job I could do that I could at least be okay with, in terms of pay, interest, and what it would do to my mood. No women would want to go out with a guy who is always angry and in victim mode because he is poor, but also, there probably aren't a lot of women who want to go out with a guy who is better off and not necessarily a victim, but still angry due to stress and having no time to pursue his true interests. And most women probably don't want to date a boring guy whether he is poor, rich, or anywhere in between. At least, I don't think I'd want to date the kind of woman that would want to date a boring guy, if that makes sense, because she's probably boring herself and wouldn't inspire me to keep reaching, to keep trying to be interesting and good at the things I like, to keep trying to be who I want to be. I wish I could figure out a job that paid me enough to hold my head up high and not feel like a victim, and left me enough time to pursue my real interests with the hope of becoming successful enough at them to leave the job behind, or at least good enough at them to say that these interests are something that I actually do and am good at, that are actually a part of who I am and enough to be an interesting person myself.

People often don't find out what they enjoy or what they're good at until they get out into the workforce, and maybe change jobs a few times. What seems appealing from the outside often isn't when it comes to the routine tasks. On the other hand work that seems dull (for eg. managing budgets, logistics etc.) may turn out not to be.

Thing is I don't see working as necessarily all about self-fulfillment though, rather self-sufficiency. If you don't support yourself women are going to look down on you no matter what.

Edit: this isn't meant as a put-down.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Thing is I don't see working as necessarily all about self-fulfillment though, rather self-sufficiency. If you don't support yourself women are going to look down on you no matter what.

Are you saying that as just being a woman thing?

 

[AmytheTemperamental]

Can a woman be excited by a guy who isn't a smart-ass?

I personally don't agree with the above definition of a smart ass, because I have never felt mocked by one. To me, it's all about the feeling of being respected and having the other person know when they are reaching the boundary limits. I may have a higher tolerance for that stuff, because I am quite playful with it myself. I also find a certain level of comfort being around people, not just men, who are the smart ass type because that is what I have always known.

I have been excited by guys who weren't like that at all. But they eventually grew to be not so excited by me, because they had shorter boundary limitations than I did.

Also, slightly different question - does a guy have to be a risk-taker in order to be attractive?

I don't find it attractive for men to do stuff that is illegal. I am not big into people who play sports. Bikers are okay...ya know, the little ones who aren't looking to fight people .

What I would find attractive is someone who has drive. Someone who gets themselves up everyday, and makes it through their life, even if just one step at a time. Someone who continues to do everything they can to take that step forward. Because that is where I am at in my own life right now. A person very much has to match the level that I am on.

And yes, just for the hell of it. These are my opinions and my opinions only. I do not speak for every woman :rolleyes2:

 

[EveWasFramed]

Thing is I don't see working as necessarily all about self-fulfillment though, rather self-sufficiency. If you don't support yourself women are going to look down on you no matter what.

Are you saying that as just being a woman thing?

I don't think he is, Nillabean.
However, I think a man who doesnt attempt to be gainfully employed at all times is more frowned upon than a female in the same boat. Im not saying that's right, I think it's just the way a lot of people see it. As Ardour pointed out, it's more a matter of being seen as self-sufficient. I've known people who didn't have traditional employment, but were still self-sufficient.

 

[ardour]

Are you saying that as just being a woman thing?

No.

 

[VanillaCreme]

I didn't mean to be harsh about my question. I was just wondering. Sorry, Ardour, if that came out in a sarcastic way.

 

[Rahvin]

I'm not a woman, but this is an age old topic that is really only perpetuated by those who don't understand..i'm not sure what it would be, really. Social Sciences? Interpersonal Psychology? Whatever the case, i'll boil the true answer down for you.

1: Live your life, be you.
2: Talk to people (obviously this includes women).

There is no secret formula to how you should act to "git al th gurlz bruh".
If a woman is attracted to you, make a move.
If she isn't, oh well, move on (none of that "friendzone" bs).

Yeah, some people get more women than others. They didn't find this secret balance of bring nice and being a ******, though. The truth is, frankly, some guys just aren't found as attractive by as many people. Maybe its the region they're in, maybe its the cliques they're around, whatever. Some guys just straight up aren't attractice enough, either personality-wise or physically ( everybody has their limits, most people are shallow to some degree) and it's literally the exact same for women.

 

[ardour]

I didn't mean to be harsh about my question. I was just wondering. Sorry, Ardour, if that came out in a sarcastic way.

Ah..no problem. Women might be more motivated by practical concerns around income but I wouldn’t say gender is the main factor here. Sorry to say it but I would find it difficult to respect a woman who was unemployed and still living at home for no apparent reason.

 

[lonelypanda]

I've got a couple questions.

The other day I was reading an article in which someone said, they believed that for men who want to attract women, you have to be a smart-ass in order to create attraction. I define a smart-ass as someone who is cocky, cynical, sarcastic, hostile, disrespectful, and rude, who likes to mock things, put things down, and be rebellious and antagonistic towards anything and everything. When I thought about what I'd observed, this made sense. Now, most of my friends are in relationships or have been in relationships at some point, and they are not smart-asses - but also, they experienced significant failures trying to get a girlfriend or had to wait a long time before anyone was interested in them. None of my friends had girlfriends when most guys started dating.

When I think about all the people I have ever come across, it's definitely been true that the nicer, friendlier guys tend to have a harder time getting a girlfriend whereas the smart-asses always had and still have an easy time getting someone, and if they don't have a girlfriend, it's because they want to be a player or because they don't feel like having a girlfriend. But if they changed their minds, they could get one easily.

Me, on the other hand, have always been described as nice, sweet, warm, cheerful, "sunny", and friendly - all traits that seem to be considered feminine, unmanly, and unattractive to women. I've heard it said many times that these traits are a romantic buzzkill, and snuff out any form of sexual attraction. I've been told that I'm too good, too "shiny", which women think of as being a wuss. Obviously I don't want to be thought of as a wuss but what am I supposed to do, start acting meaner? Start knowingly being a worse person? Being nice, sweet, friendly and so on is all I know how to be. It makes sense to me. When I care about someone in any capacity, I want to be nice to them. I am nice in general, I want to be happy, I don't like to mock and attack things for no reason. I feel good when I promote the things I like, and this goes for people too. I've never been the kind of guy that mocks a girl to show that he likes her, that's never seemed natural to me. It's the golden rule, treat others the way you want them to treat you. It's me casting my vote for what I want the world to be like. I have never been a smart-ass, and not only that, but I strongly dislike that kind of person.

I've also never been very rebellious - there are only a few things that I am interested in that would fall under that category. Besides, being rebellious would probably have gotten me disowned and cost me all my friends. It never seemed worth it. It never even seemed fun in and of itself. I've never felt any need to rebel before. I was never rich and never really had luxury, but always comfortable and always had more to lose by acting that way than I had to gain.

The other thing is, I've never been blatantly sexual either. I've just never felt comfortable acting that way, and I just don't want to because I think it's trashy and I want to be respectable in my own way. But at the same time, regardless of how friendly I am or my interests or anything else, I'm still a 29 year old straight man with all of the desires you might imagine someone like me to have. I'm not asexual and I'm not a little boy. This is why it makes me mad when people say that niceness is a sexual buzzkill. I'm nice, not dense. There's a difference.

Now, I'm not asking if you have to be a "bad boy" again. A smart-ass is like the watered-down, more socially acceptable version of that who isn't necessarily a criminal or a druggie but still has an antagonistic, clashing personality. But does a guy have to be at least somewhat of a smart-ass in order for you to feel attraction?

Can a woman be excited by a guy who isn't a smart-ass?

Also, slightly different question - does a guy have to be a risk-taker in order to be attractive?

I've also noticed that risk-takers get a lot of attention. Again this could be people who commit crimes and do dangerous drugs, but also extreme sports, motorcycling, stuff like that. I'm not necessarily opposed to the latter as I am to the former, but at the same time, I don't feel a particularly strong calling to do those things and they tend to cost a lot of money to get into anyway.

There's prob lots of women who like the witty *******, the adventurer etc, but there is lots of women who appreciate the sweet guy. If it takes changing who you really are it's not worth it. There's someone out there for you and the grass isn't always greener on the other side. You might find a gf and fall in love, but falling in love is like flipping a coin. One could be seeing the sun and enjoying life around you, and the other is face down in dirt. If you're going to find love, let it be genuine and have a girl love you for who you are.

I've read articles where they say what men want and that ain't close to me but I stay true to me. Love it or leave it. Lol

---

To answer your first question, no, I still don't have a job and yes, I do realize that this is probably at least part of my problem in being attractive.

I would say it's the primary reason. You're 29 and unemployed. Don't want to be harsh here but women aren't going to be lining up no matter what your personal qualities.

Forget about women for a while and make finding a job and career goals top priority. Otherwise it's just spinning your wheels.

One of my ex's, the one who I consider my soul mate who was the love of my life had no job when I met him, no car and he was fat. Haha but he was the most sweet and genuine person, he had me at hello. Being sweet and kind in this generation is such a rare quality, so many nasty, sarcastic, rude, pompous ******** running around. It's a breath of fresh air when someone is genuinely kind, it really is, and you don't need a job to find love. Maybe there are lots of women who won't date a guy without out a job, but why put off finding a girl because you don't have a job? Might aswell keep the options open, because some girls might not care.

 

[ladyforsaken]

Can a woman be excited by a guy who isn't a smart-ass?

Whatever the definition of smart-ass is, yes it is possible for a woman to be excited by someone who isn't one. An example, my new colleague. Her husband is a really humble, down to earth guy who doesn't behave like one, however the definition is. She gets excited just talking to me about him. Plus it's not like they were just married either.

Also, slightly different question - does a guy have to be a risk-taker in order to be attractive?

No, he doesn't have to be. They get attention from certain types of women who notices and gets attracted to such people. Personally, that's not what attracts me to a guy.

 

[Xpendable]

Beards?

 

[ladyforsaken]

Beards?

Some men can pull it off and I personally don't mind it.

 

[AmytheTemperamental]

I like beards.

 

[lonelypanda]

Beards?

I'm a beard fan, as long as a guy can grow a full one and not a patchy one lol

 

[Aisha]

Beards?

Beards.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Beards?

Some men can pull it off and I personally don't mind it.

More or less this. I don't mind beards, unless they look stupid as fresia.