Why can’t I get along with women?

[ardour]

I have had loads of disputes at work, a lot of them with women. Usually I say something off hand to somebody, that somebody goes and tells a twisted version of it to that person and they are ******* livid at me. I can see it when I work with them next or they leave a message of facebook. What I do is keep my head down, only talk to them if I have to, never let it look like it bothers me, never EVER ask them whats up. And then 2 weeks later I just start talking to them as normal pretending nothing as been wrong. Almost every person will chat back, they all look happy about it. And things get to normal. I don't ever discuss the problem unless they bring it up and then I will explain what I did say and say 'sorry'.

Waiting for things to blow over seems like sound advice for those situations, however, believing a person is harassing you, or could potentially do so is another matter. It's no minor conflict, difference of opinion or perceived insult. As I said, there's something about how I exude awkwardness that makes some women quick to come to this conclusion, either at first impression or at a seemingly arbitrary point soon after. This is usually sudden, and final.

Perhaps this is because when women seem as if they're being friendly to me at first, they're just 'scoping me out'; gathering enough information to make a judgement, and if it's negative it abruptly ends. But I mistake them for being genuine at the time and so find this hard to understand.

 

[Triple Bogey]

I have had loads of disputes at work, a lot of them with women. Usually I say something off hand to somebody, that somebody goes and tells a twisted version of it to that person and they are ******* livid at me. I can see it when I work with them next or they leave a message of facebook. What I do is keep my head down, only talk to them if I have to, never let it look like it bothers me, never EVER ask them whats up. And then 2 weeks later I just start talking to them as normal pretending nothing as been wrong. Almost every person will chat back, they all look happy about it. And things get to normal. I don't ever discuss the problem unless they bring it up and then I will explain what I did say and say 'sorry'.

Waiting for things blow over seems like sound advice for those situations, however, believing a person is harassing you, or could potentially do so is another matter. It's no minor conflict, difference of opinion or perceived insult. As I said, there's something about how I exude awkwardness that makes some women quick to come to this conclusion, either at first impression or at a seemingly arbitrary point soon after. This is usually sudden, and final.

Perhaps this is because when women seem as if they're being friendly to me at first, they're just 'scoping me out'; gathering enough information to make a judgement, and if it's negative it abruptly ends. But I mistake them for being genuine at the time and so find this hard to understand.

have you had any harassment charges against you ?
In the past. At work ? HR involved ?

in 1999 this lass went to the manager and complained about me. So the manager got this woman from HR down. In the meantime he started sending her home 30 minutes before I arrived. Of course I noticed. I didn't do anything. 12 months before I had asked her out and she had been very rude about it. I talked to her because we was both supervisors. But she was rude most of the time so I stopped talking to her and just happened to talk to this other woman in front of her and I could see she was pissed off. 2 days later she must have gone to the manager. She told the HR woman she felt uncomfortable when I was around her. I told the HR I wasn't going to say sorry for asking her out. There is loads more I could write a novel. She started to lose her hair at this time. She would come to work with large bald patches in her hair. Everybody was too frightened to say anything.

She's still at work now. I only talk to her when I can be bothered. Nobody likes her much. She's a *****.

 

[ardour]

No... In an majority female workplace such as mine that would likely be the end of the illustrious career. What happened with this woman sucks but at least it didn't result in any consequences for you, and you get to work shifts around different people. I've got to see her face every weekday for God knows how long.

 

[ardour]

I'm completely out of ideas, I have no idea how to behave or where to go from here. No clue.

Appear friendly and eager to talk - you're harassing them. Keep to yourself - they resent the snub

Now my best friend, someone I could just talk and be human around is off....I'm cut adrift in this sea of gossip and cliques without one ally.

 

[Triple Bogey]

I'm completely out of ideas, I have no idea how to behave or where to go from here. No clue.

Appear friendly and eager to talk - you're harassing them. Keep to yourself - they resent the snub

Now my best friend, someone I could just talk and be human around is off....I'm cut adrift in this sea of gossip and cliques without one ally.

just do your job and try and get thru the day.
I have had days like that. The lucky thing for me is I work in retail and the customers are usually very friendly so I can talk to them.

 

[LonelySutton]

I was curious to read this thread because I am a woman and I just don't get along with men. AT ALL.

I have this exact same problem. It can't be due to being attracted because one of the men I just can't get along with is my brother. I just don't get them... mostly. Most of the time I feel like men don't want to talk very much and tend to be serious all the time. And, to me, I like to talk a lot, and be detailed in explanations and I am not always serious, but that in no way means I am not serious about the work. I find many guys I work with can equate not being serious with flirting a bit and that makes them uncomfortable.

I am in the process of getting a new boss and I may get a woman but if I don't get her... if it suspected they will hire a guy. That concerns me because I just don't feel like I can work with a guy... sometimes sure, but most serious bosses... I feel will not be able to work with me.

On to ardour's problem... could it be something about the way you look? I don't mean ugly or anything, but maybe a way your face droops or something. I know a few years ago a dentist told me my bite was off slightly and it made me look upset because my mouth didn't close right and so smiling was impeded. This explained years of people thinking I was grumpy.

There is a guy at my cafeteria, I don't know why, he just makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel bad about it, but it is just something about him that makes me not want to talk to him no matter how nice he is. Even I can't put my finger on it.

ETA: I did want to say that sometimes I really feel bad for guys. I think a lot of women have NOT been taught what harassment is. There is an older guy where I work who puts his arm on your back. Yes it bothers me but I would never dream of reporting him. I know he means no harm. One day I had a friend cover for me and he did that to her, I could NOT believe that she reported him and made a massive case out of it. I felt so bad for him.

That said, it does suck that sometimes woman have to overreact. A few years back and even now there is someone at my workplace who I let go and let mildly flirt, until he got downright insane. I now feel like maybe in the future I will have to shoot first and ask questions later. Even if some innocents get caught in the crossfire. It is sad that it has come to that.

 

[ardour]

On to ardour's problem... could it be something about the way you look? I don't mean ugly or anything, but maybe a way your face droops or something.

That's would be part of it, being wary of making eye contact is probably another thing... seems like just about everything can be misconstrued.

There is a guy at my cafeteria, I don't know why, he just makes me feel uncomfortable. I feel bad about it, but it is just something about him that makes me not want to talk to him no matter how nice he is. Even I can't put my finger on it.
o bad for him.

Hazard a guess at what it might be if you can, because I'm interested..

 

[ardour]

At the risk of sounding obsessed..

After her reaction to my dumb email (to paraphrase it, asking "what's up"), I was resigned to that being the end of it and didn't bother any more. Then out of nowhere she's friendly, looking for excuses to talk about work and other things, taking breaks at the same time, although I didn't sit by her feeling kind of wary at the prospect of things going south again.

Two weeks on it's back to the previous situation of her not even saying hello and turning up her nose at me, only worse now.

I wish people like this would come with a warning label. Yea she is attractive but I'm pretty much anxious all the time any way.

 

[Triple Bogey]

At the risk of sounding obsessed..

After her reaction to my dumb email (to paraphrase it, asking "what's up"), I was resigned to that being the end of it and didn't bother any more. Then out of nowhere she's friendly, looking for excuses to talk about work and other things, taking breaks at the same time, although I didn't sit by her feeling kind of wary at the prospect of things going south again.

Two weeks on it's back to the previous situation of her not even saying hello and turning up her nose at me, only worse now.

I wish people like this would come with a warning label. Yea she is attractive but I've pretty much anxious all the time any way.

people have good moods and bad moods. Some days they want to talk, some days they don't. I think your reading too much into it.

 

[ardour]

people have good moods and bad moods. Some days they want to talk, some days they don't. I think your reading too much into it.

Except when the attitude is directed at me and no-one else. And that aside, only women are allowed to have "bad days", be rude like this and not be judged for it... oops bitter misogynist remark..

 

[VanillaCreme]

people have good moods and bad moods. Some days they want to talk, some days they don't. I think your reading too much into it.

Except when the attitude is directed at me and no-one else. And that aside, only women are allowed to have "bad days", be rude like this and not be judged for it... oops bitter misogynist remark..

But, how do you know it's not directed at anyone or anything else? Unless you were watching her all day and night, you wouldn't know. She might have punched a pillow or a wall, or yelled at a cat or a dog.

 

[ardour]

But, how do you know it's not directed at anyone or anything else? Unless you were watching her all day and night, you wouldn't know. She might have punched a pillow or a wall, or yelled at a cat or a dog.

Well only me at work. She's quite polite and normal towards others. She seems to be making sure we don't cross paths now. Do I sound obsessive? Yes, but she has a boyfriend. It's not like that. I see it as sort of symbolic of my social ineptness and inability to read people.

 

[VanillaCreme]

But, how do you know it's not directed at anyone or anything else? Unless you were watching her all day and night, you wouldn't know. She might have punched a pillow or a wall, or yelled at a cat or a dog.

Well only me at work. She's quite polite and normal towards others. She seems to be making sure we don't cross paths now. Do I sound obsessive? Yes, but she has a boyfriend. It's not like that. I see it as sort of symbolic of my social ineptness and inability to read people.

I don't think it sounds obsessive, and my apologizes if that's anything you picked out of my post. I was just simply saying that unless one were around her 24-7, they wouldn't know if it were a pissy attitude towards them alone or just in general. Perhaps (and I don't mean this to come off as being rude in any way) there's something about you that she may not like? I'm assuming she doesn't know you very well? It may just be one of those cases that until we get to know someone, we just don't like them for whatever reason.

 

[ardour]

Perhaps (and I don't mean this to come off as being rude in any way) there's something about you that she may not like? I'm assuming she doesn't know you very well? It may just be one of those cases that until we get to know someone, we just don't like them for whatever reason.

It's not rude. Absolutely something she doesn't like. I don't like me most of the time. I Really wish I could relax but it's not easy.

Once people decide they don't want to talk that's the end of the getting to know each other chit chat unless they have a change of heart.

 

[Triple Bogey]

people have good moods and bad moods. Some days they want to talk, some days they don't. I think your reading too much into it.

Except when the attitude is directed at me and no-one else. And that aside, only women are allowed to have "bad days", be rude like this and not be judged for it... oops bitter misogynist remark..

directed at you how ?
what does she say ?
what does she do ?

 

[ardour]

directed at you how ?
what does she say ?
what does she do ?

Doesn’t reply to a ‘hello’ in the morning any more; doesn’t say goodbye.
Barely concealed looks of disgust and negative body language when I’ve had to speak to her about work
During the times I’ve had to stack issues near her desk she goes out to the bathroom
Seen her glancing at me as if she’s watching my movements; seems to be taking note of my breaks, when I’m out of the office so she doesn’t have to walk past me in the hall.

Just generally obnoxious neurotic type hatred.

I shouldn’t go on like this, it sounds like I have some fixation. It’s more or less what I’ve had to deal with from women over the years; I make a 'bad' impression somewhere along the line, usually based on something really minor like being awkward in one instance, then all politeness goes out the window and they treat me like utter crap.

 

[jjessea]

I think you are fixating, but not on her. You've recognized a social pattern with respect to yourself. It sounds like it's an old, familiar pattern, one that you may have gotten partially over, and now here it is again slapping you right in the face. Now it's tough to get off your mind. It sounds like a tough situation.

Many people can be generally cruel to the opposite sex in various ways. She probably doesn't like you, and doesn't like your 'type' of guy. I'll bet that for one reason or another she believes, or assumes, things about you and your type that she's seen in the past but aren't true for all. You have found a way to fit into her imagination that of a person that disgusts and revolts her. She doesn't approve of 'you', and has decided to express it in a stereotypically passive-aggressive manner. It works both ways, with both sexes, as I'm certain LonelySutton and raincloud can attest. It is some of the worst kind of 'civilized' cruelty imaginable.

Cut yourself off from this woman as vehemently as she seems to have done with you. These people can be dangerous to you both personally and professionally. Be courteous and respectful, but disconnected and distant with her at all times. Polite, but not overtly so. Not acting as if your overcoming a revulsion or a slight, but as you would be to any other human. As if she means as much to you, and deserving as much attention and courtesy, as anyone else, but no more and no less.

Act as if she means nothing to you, and by the time you get over this, it'll be true.

---

I do want to add, that she may not be a cruel person. Many women in their lives have had a run in or two with a 'creepy' guy. One who probably scared them quite a bit. For some girls its worse than others. They tend to characterize men as either creepy or not creepy when they first meet them. If you have been characterized that way, you basically scare them or make them at least a little nervous. Not because you've done anything but because of their past. It's a little silly. They assume a lot and make lots of generalizations about men(as men do about women), and it's clear that their imagination is running away with them. It's a bit narcissistic, because it also assumes an attraction on the mans part, but it's also something that you need to have some compassion and understanding for, because it's a self defense mechanism.

 

[Case]

Do you think that you can dismiss her as nothing more than a faceless co-worker drone and refuse to let her negativity become yours?

Right now, it sounds like you absorb her negativity like a sponge because it seems to validate your own negative self-image. What if you stopped caring about her reactions? You say you have a history where one wrong move makes every woman around you suddenly treat you like crap. But, you fulfill that very prophecy by over-thinking every encounter, creating more anxiety and more awkward moments with women, forcing the cycle to repeat.

I can imagine a realistic future for you where she keeps being her crabby self, but you act like she's fog. Her "disgust" washes over you like water vapor, never getting into your head or under your skin, and you can live peacefully in this environment without being anxious at every turn. I agree with jjessea. Be "disconnected and distant" and do only what you need to do with her to get the job done, and keep her out of your head.

I dunno. It's just a thought.

 

[Triple Bogey]

Do you think that you can dismiss her as nothing more than a faceless co-worker drone and refuse to let her negativity become yours?

Right now, it sounds like you absorb her negativity like a sponge because it seems to validate your own negative self-image. What if you stopped caring about her reactions? You say you have a history where one wrong move makes every woman around you suddenly treat you like crap. But, you fulfill that very prophecy by over-thinking every encounter, creating more anxiety and more awkward moments with women, forcing the cycle to repeat.

I can imagine a realistic future for you where she keeps being her crabby self, but you act like she's fog. Her "disgust" washes over you like water vapor, never getting into your head or under your skin, and you can live peacefully in this environment without being anxious at every turn. I agree with jjessea. Be "disconnected and distant" and do only what you need to do with her to get the job done, and keep her out of your head.

I dunno. It's just a thought.

good advice.

I am sure there are women at work who dislike me. I barely notice. I say 'hello' to them in the morning and they don't reply. It doesn't bother me, I don't think about them.

 

[ardour]

I guess it doesn't matter what sort of person she is underneath; whether she really is cold and judgemental (which is actually better because it means I'm not to blame and shouldn't care), wary, or to what degree I contributed to the outcome. It doesn't change a thing now.

Back in 2004 I worked in an office doing mindless clerical duties, still studying. I met this other part-timer there, we had a mutual friend and we were just folding graduation certificates and could talk over it. We got on great, clicked, she asked heaps of questions which is a good sign and actually said how nice it was to talk. But the next day I must have come across aloof, didn't smile or something and that was it. The following few months we never really spoke again except for a few times I tried to initiate. She just wouldn't budge, rudely got up and left when I sat near her in the break one day. Despite this we seemed to have quite a bit in common, which made it all the more maddening at the time. That was the first example I can remember really bothering me and ever since it's like the "familiar pattern" on repeat, not in every instance, but frequently enough to make me acutely self-conscious. It never gets to the stage of familiarity where my 'type', whatever that is, becomes the issue, it's to do with a nervous demeanor women hate. I don't have a personality 'type'.

I'll try and take the advice and become indifferent to her. There's a "why does it need to be this way?" grasping at straws frustration that needs to be overcome in the process.

Is it best to stop saying hello altogether?