30 And Never Had A Girlfriend, Too Ugly?

[TropicalStarfish]

Out of all the replies I've read, I think Cenotaph's first comment holds a lot of weight. The town I grew up in, I was a nobody average dude. I was quite young and all, but it was clear from the beginning, I was not anything of major interest to the ladies.

Then, when my family moved us up north, to a much more smaller area, and more country-ish backwards type area, suddenly, I was in a much smaller pool, and my attractiveness stood out more, without having to change a thing.

----
What's my take? Maybe you are too well rounded. Looks matter, yes. But, money matters too. Status matters. Confidence matters. Sometimes ladies dig a few scars. A few dents and scratches here and there. *shrugs*
----

I really don't know though. Ugly dudes who are insanely rich always seem to be able to find a woman, or many women.

I think it could be that, 'location, location, location,' theory. I know where I live now, there is no shortage of macho dudes, who are fit, financially stable, and good looking to boot; so, it's just harder in general to compete.

---
Also, @bender22 is quite the pro, in such matters. heh heh He's probably got at least a master's degree in dating by now.

 

[Unsigned]

theres a certain attitude that comes after years of not being able to find someone

Totally true.
At least for me.
The longer I went without having a GF, the more worthless I felt.
It's odd because I know I am not worthless, but without a female that needs me, it's just how I feel.

 

[Forgottendanfan]

Out of all the replies I've read, I think Cenotaph's first comment holds a lot of weight. The town I grew up in, I was a nobody average dude. I was quite young and all, but it was clear from the beginning, I was not anything of major interest to the ladies.

Then, when my family moved us up north, to a much more smaller area, and more country-ish backwards type area, suddenly, I was in a much smaller pool, and my attractiveness stood out more, without having to change a thing.

----
What's my take? Maybe you are too well rounded. Looks matter, yes. But, money matters too. Status matters. Confidence matters. Sometimes ladies dig a few scars. A few dents and scratches here and there. *shrugs*
----

I really don't know though. Ugly dudes who are insanely rich always seem to be able to find a woman, or many women.

I think it could be that, 'location, location, location,' theory. I know where I live now, there is no shortage of macho dudes, who are fit, financially stable, and good looking to boot; so, it's just harder in general to compete.

---
Also, @bender22 is quite the pro, in such matters. heh heh He's probably got at least a master's degree in dating by now.

I think the key point amongst those things is "confidence". It's a weird one, because although it's more malleable than looks, status and money, let's not underestimate how difficult it is to come by. Not least because it's largely determined by how well furnished a person is in the aforementioned looks, status and money. If you're not well versed in any of those three things, the dating game continues to be a mammoth task, so I'd imagine. I consider myself very much out of the dating game by now anyway. If someone comes along and we "click", that's brilliant, but if not, I guess I'll just continue with things the way they are now. I know which eventuality my money is on.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

I think the key point amongst those things is "confidence". It's a weird one, because although it's more malleable than looks, status and money, let's not underestimate how difficult it is to come by. Not least because it's largely determined by how well furnished a person is in the aforementioned looks, status and money. If you're not well versed in any of those three things, the dating game continues to be a mammoth task, so I'd imagine. I consider myself very much out of the dating game by now anyway. If someone comes along and we "click", that's brilliant, but if not, I guess I'll just continue with things the way they are now. I know which eventuality my money is on.

Low status people, who aren't wealthy, and even not very good looking can have loads of confidence. Think of the 'conman.' heh. I think people are just confident by genetics. Yeah, certain circumstances can breed confidence, or people can build confidence; but, some people just ooze the stuff, all day, every day. They are born with it.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

No, that's the rub.
You volunteer to help others and you feel like you are making a difference.
That is what my friend tried to instill upon me.
He was right.
I have to give it a try too...


And maybe, just maybe...you meet a girl who feels the same way...

That's exactly my point, I'd be doing it for selfish reasons, and my enjoyment of that would hinge entirely upon meeting a girl who liked me, which doesn't seem like a good enough reason to spend my weekends volunteering.

Awh deffo not joking, being so serious (for once)

I wont lie though, I think with men... theres a certain attitude that comes after years of not being able to find someone, doesn't happen to women as our value just increases the less men are interested in us, but for men it seems like there is just this literal identical attitude, it's almost like a deep sense of "failure", I have never felt that, wont sit here and pretend I have... I have been rejected, I have been the girl people would ask out for a joke, and I have been that girl that guys would want a secret "thing" with, I still get shocked when a guy says he'll hold my hand in public, or he would be proud to be with me.

Hope you can just have a nice break away somewhere, even with mates, and find a hot someone, but if not, at least you had a break, and you'll be ready to ... try again?

For sure, and I'm doing my best not to become bitter or depressing about it, but it's certainly easy to fall down that rabbit hole when you are unwanted by the opposite sex. I suppose that's the difference in the sexes that you've always known you've had options; they may not have been options you're particularly jazzed about, but they're there. For a man who has seemingly no options, it's certainly easy to get depressed.

As for going away, I don't have a particularly stressful life, I manage to get away 3-4 times a year for long weekend breaks with friends. It doesn't really solve anything, I still come back to a world where I'm ugly and unwanted.

I'd be curious to see the photos you used on Tinder. Seems odd that you wouldn't get any matches if you're not overweight.

Have you tried the premium version to see if some women have at least swiped right on you?

I've got a thread in the miscellaneous section where I've documented how I turned my dating life around after having almost no success when I was younger. Could be worth a read.

I'm pretty picky with the photos I use, and obviously I've changed and updated them over the years. I try to put a good mix in: a nightlife photo, a daytime photo, playing sport or an activity. I do understand it's a numbers game, and the men outnumber the women etc, but it is odd when all my other male friends do significantly better on these platforms. I'll be honest, I'm not going to be paying $10/week for the premium version of Tinder, that just seems like a bad investment. I don't swipe right on everyone obviously, but I'd say about 2/3rds.

Out of all the replies I've read, I think Cenotaph's first comment holds a lot of weight. The town I grew up in, I was a nobody average dude. I was quite young and all, but it was clear from the beginning, I was not anything of major interest to the ladies.

Then, when my family moved us up north, to a much more smaller area, and more country-ish backwards type area, suddenly, I was in a much smaller pool, and my attractiveness stood out more, without having to change a thing.

----
What's my take? Maybe you are too well rounded. Looks matter, yes. But, money matters too. Status matters. Confidence matters. Sometimes ladies dig a few scars. A few dents and scratches here and there. *shrugs*
----

I really don't know though. Ugly dudes who are insanely rich always seem to be able to find a woman, or many women.

I think it could be that, 'location, location, location,' theory. I know where I live now, there is no shortage of macho dudes, who are fit, financially stable, and good looking to boot; so, it's just harder in general to compete.

---
Also, @bender22 is quite the pro, in such matters. heh heh He's probably got at least a master's degree in dating by now.

For the record, I'm not living in the town I grew up in. I moved into a big-ish city at 20, it's a fairly big student population. It's large enough that whenever I go out for nightlife it's different faces, and I like that. Obviously within the social circles that I'm in, sure, they've known me long enough to not really think of me in "that" way, but environments such as swing-dancing or meet-up groups have a constant influx of new women.

I think the key point amongst those things is "confidence". It's a weird one, because although it's more malleable than looks, status and money, let's not underestimate how difficult it is to come by. Not least because it's largely determined by how well furnished a person is in the aforementioned looks, status and money. If you're not well versed in any of those three things, the dating game continues to be a mammoth task, so I'd imagine. I consider myself very much out of the dating game by now anyway. If someone comes along and we "click", that's brilliant, but if not, I guess I'll just continue with things the way they are now. I know which eventuality my money is on.

This is where I'd disagree with you, as I really don't have any issues being shy or lacking confidence. Really, I'm happy enough in myself and have no problems talking to anyone. It does appear to be a visual problem: when presented with a photo of me and the woman says "Ew, no!", my level of self esteem does not save me. Like I said, looking at online dating, where they literally see photos of you, without any "confidence" issues to get in the way, they swipe to the left.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

That's exactly my point, I'd be doing it for selfish reasons, and my enjoyment of that would hinge entirely upon meeting a girl who liked me, which doesn't seem like a good enough reason to spend my weekends volunteering.

For sure, and I'm doing my best not to become bitter or depressing about it, but it's certainly easy to fall down that rabbit hole when you are unwanted by the opposite sex. I suppose that's the difference in the sexes that you've always known you've had options; they may not have been options you're particularly jazzed about, but they're there. For a man who has seemingly no options, it's certainly easy to get depressed.

As for going away, I don't have a particularly stressful life, I manage to get away 3-4 times a year for long weekend breaks with friends. It doesn't really solve anything, I still come back to a world where I'm ugly and unwanted.

I'm pretty picky with the photos I use, and obviously I've changed and updated them over the years. I try to put a good mix in: a nightlife photo, a daytime photo, playing sport or an activity. I do understand it's a numbers game, and the men outnumber the women etc, but it is odd when all my other male friends do significantly better on these platforms. I'll be honest, I'm not going to be paying $10/week for the premium version of Tinder, that just seems like a bad investment. I don't swipe right on everyone obviously, but I'd say about 2/3rds.

For the record, I'm not living in the town I grew up in. I moved into a big-ish city at 20, it's a fairly big student population. It's large enough that whenever I go out for nightlife it's different faces, and I like that. Obviously within the social circles that I'm in, sure, they've known me long enough to not really think of me in "that" way, but environments such as swing-dancing or meet-up groups have a constant influx of new women.


This is where I'd disagree with you, as I really don't have any issues being shy or lacking confidence. Really, I'm happy enough in myself and have no problems talking to anyone. It does appear to be a visual problem: when presented with a photo of me and the woman says "Ew, no!", my level of self esteem does not save me. Like I said, looking at online dating, where they literally see photos of you, without any "confidence" issues to get in the way, they swipe to the left.

Hmm question! (I’m the girl who cant stop asking questions ) If you had to say what is unattractive about you, like what your main flaws are, what would you say?

 

[TropicalStarfish]

Well that does play to Cenotaph's point very strongly. It may play to my point a bit too.

1: you live in a very populated area, with lots of different types and lots of variety.

2: IF you are very well rounded (no weekend cocaine binges or biker gang stories lol (I'm being a bit facetious))

3: you truly are below average in physical attractiveness

So, despite having all the major t's crossed and i's dotted
then, the odds would be stacked against you. You'd have no particular type of swagger that makes you stand out, you'd be competing in a very large and diverse pool of potential mates, and you'd be in the lower percentiles of physical attractiveness.

I mean if you are generally not attractive, but move somewhere, where, everyone is generally unnattractive, suddenly your just average or above average in attractiveness.

Or if you are american, but move to say, japan, suddenly you stand out, you're an 'american', there is intrigue to your attributes now; where as back in america, your just another joe schmoe..

Not only that, but, people in the city and especially college towns, probably aren't looking for, 'hubby,' material, as much as they are looking for, 'excitement,' material. However, if you move down to the bible belt or something, the values are different, and people are looking for different things, etc..

So, yeah, again, money, status, power, looks, confidence, etc..

There really is a spectrum of things that embody one's attractiveness. And not only that, but a red rose among a bunch of other red roses won't stand out nearly as much as a blue rose, among red roses.

So, I dunno, that's the best I can come up with.

Go look up Rodney Dangerfield and have a look at his wife. Rodney Dangerfield was **** ugly and was married to an absolutely gorgeous woman, who genuinely loved him till his death. BUT, he could make her laugh, and he was a sweetheart.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

Well I'm 3 years older, never had "one night stands", no kisses, no friends etc but I mean even if I had all of those I'd still be a loser and frankly anyone that I can think of is one too. Now if I wasn't aging, had a "flying car" and had a couple of other impossible things I'd consider my loneliness something really missing. For you maybe get a hooker, I don't know i'm not the best person to give you advice about those things lol.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

Well that does play to Cenotaph's point very strongly. It may play to my point a bit too.

1: you live in a very populated area, with lots of different types and lots of variety.

2: IF you are very well rounded (no weekend cocaine binges or biker gang stories lol (I'm being a bit facetious))

3: you truly are below average in physical attractiveness

So, despite having all the major t's crossed and i's dotted
then, the odds would be stacked against you. You'd have no particular type of swagger that makes you stand out, you'd be competing in a very large and diverse pool of potential mates, and you'd be in the lower percentiles of physical attractiveness.

I mean if you are generally not attractive, but move somewhere, where, everyone is generally unnattractive, suddenly your just average or above average in attractiveness.

Or if you are american, but move to say, japan, suddenly you stand out, you're an 'american', there is intrigue to your attributes now; where as back in america, your just another joe schmoe..

Not only that, but, people in the city and especially college towns, probably aren't looking for, 'hubby,' material, as much as they are looking for, 'excitement,' material. However, if you move down to the bible belt or something, the values are different, and people are looking for different things, etc..

So, yeah, again, money, status, power, looks, confidence, etc..

There really is a spectrum of things that embody one's attractiveness. And not only that, but a red rose among a bunch of other red roses won't stand out nearly as much as a blue rose, among red roses.

So, I dunno, that's the best I can come up with.

Go look up Rodney Dangerfield and have a look at his wife. Rodney Dangerfield was **** ugly and was married to an absolutely gorgeous woman, who genuinely loved him till his death. BUT, he could make her laugh, and he was a sweetheart.

Just to add: cocaine isn't that bad (I'm not addicted to it just saying) + Japan is great but also sucks namely for the reason you mention.
Aka: it likely works for blond or black Americans which may help the OP but sometimes it's a very bad choice trust me.

 

[Unsigned]

For you maybe get a hooker, I don't know i'm not the best person to give you advice about those things lol.

The danger there is that it can lead to ONLY doing that. Which certainly happened with me.
I'm too old to change, but a 30 year old should keep trying to find a nice girl.
Even if a guy did decide to visit a provider once in a while, he shouldn't stop trying to find a girlfriend.
And he certainly should not make a habit of seeing providers -- because then it will be very difficult to stop.
And will skew his opinions of women forever.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

^ I don't know I'm unironically the type of person who can't get even a hooker lol so maybe he can't too? It's a strange case, if he's someone who had one night stands in college but can't even get a date these days there must be something in between that had changed things for the worse.

 

[Forgottendanfan]

Hmm question! (I’m the girl who cant stop asking questions ) If you had to say what is unattractive about you, like what your main flaws are, what would you say?

As superficial as it may be, I'm also curious about this.

 

[Black Rose]

If you truly feel it is your looks, perhaps finding someone to help in that area may be the answer. Something as small as a change in your facial hair can make a big difference. I'm putting in a pic below. It could be more you need to rethink your style than your just ugly and that's how it is. Below is the same guy. His hair didn't flatter him. He grew his beard and shaped it. Maybe got contacts. He brought out his best features. Cutting his hair slimmed his face. Growing a beard brought out his gorgeous lips and getting rid of the glasses shows his eyes. Maybe it would help to bring out your best features?
I hope this helps.

 

[Forgottendanfan]

If you truly feel it is your looks, perhaps finding someone to help in that area may be the answer. Something as small as a change in your facial hair can make a big difference. I'm putting in a pic below. It could be more you need to rethink your style than your just ugly and that's how it is. Below is the same guy. His hair didn't flatter him. He grew his beard and shaped it. Maybe got contacts. He brought out his best features. Cutting his hair slimmed his face. Growing a beard brought out his gorgeous lips and getting rid of the glasses shows his eyes. Maybe it would help to bring out your best features?
I hope this helps.
View attachment 6581

I think the style on the left is much more individual and full of character. I could walk around my town on any given day and see dozens of guys with hairstyles like the one on the right. To me it looks neat, but also bland.

 

[Forgottendanfan]

Well I'm 3 years older, never had "one night stands", no kisses, no friends etc but I mean even if I had all of those I'd still be a loser and frankly anyone that I can think of is one too. Now if I wasn't aging, had a "flying car" and had a couple of other impossible things I'd consider my loneliness something really missing. For you maybe get a hooker, I don't know i'm not the best person to give you advice about those things lol.

I'd have no clue how to go about having a one night stand even if I wanted one, which I don't. The idea has never appealed to me in all honesty.

 

[maybetrollingmaybenot]

^ Yeah but the point is if you can achieve something but somehow can't at the same time. For example I am unvaccinated and not because I like Putin/Trump (I hate them), I'm just lazy but if I wanted to get vaccinated but can't that will be a bizarre story. Same with the op.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Hmm question! (I’m the girl who cant stop asking questions ) If you had to say what is unattractive about you, like what your main flaws are, what would you say?

From "market research", it certainly seems to be in the face area, which is annoying because there's very little I can do about that. My diet is fairly clean, and over years of exercise have developed a fairly athletic physique, with broad chest and shoulders. I have also been referred to several times as "alright from the neck down", which is also a clue.

Well that does play to Cenotaph's point very strongly. It may play to my point a bit too.

1: you live in a very populated area, with lots of different types and lots of variety.

2: IF you are very well rounded (no weekend cocaine binges or biker gang stories lol (I'm being a bit facetious))

3: you truly are below average in physical attractiveness

So, despite having all the major t's crossed and i's dotted
then, the odds would be stacked against you. You'd have no particular type of swagger that makes you stand out, you'd be competing in a very large and diverse pool of potential mates, and you'd be in the lower percentiles of physical attractiveness.

I mean if you are generally not attractive, but move somewhere, where, everyone is generally unnattractive, suddenly your just average or above average in attractiveness.

Or if you are american, but move to say, japan, suddenly you stand out, you're an 'american', there is intrigue to your attributes now; where as back in america, your just another joe schmoe..

Not only that, but, people in the city and especially college towns, probably aren't looking for, 'hubby,' material, as much as they are looking for, 'excitement,' material. However, if you move down to the bible belt or something, the values are different, and people are looking for different things, etc..

So, yeah, again, money, status, power, looks, confidence, etc..

There really is a spectrum of things that embody one's attractiveness. And not only that, but a red rose among a bunch of other red roses won't stand out nearly as much as a blue rose, among red roses.

So, I dunno, that's the best I can come up with.

Go look up Rodney Dangerfield and have a look at his wife. Rodney Dangerfield was **** ugly and was married to an absolutely gorgeous woman, who genuinely loved him till his death. BUT, he could make her laugh, and he was a sweetheart.

There's a bit going on here. Firstly, the stuff about cocaine binges and fight stories etc, they're the sort of things that would attract/repel a person assuming they knew those things about you, they're not obvious to the naked eye. Okay, it turns out I'm not on coke or a member of a gang, but people do not know that when they dismiss me purely based on my looks. Most of my friends are fairly safe individuals, they've all had no issues like this.

As for status & power, I find this a tricky one, as it is also not always obvious to the naked eye. A friend in a social circle is the director of a banking division, on 120k, Jaguar with custom plates in the driveway, but when you see him he's in a baggy t shirt and jeans, no expensive watch or obvious signs. One of my best friends is a site manager for a building company, easily on 50K, but he's out in cargo pants and skateboarding t shirts from 2006. I can see why some people, particularly foreigners, attract themselves to items with big logos and brand names, so it's obvious from a distance that they have money and status. For myself, I'm not so big on obvious logos, so the expensive items of clothing that I own I bought more for the material or fit.

Which leads to standing out. I must admit that's probably an issue. I'm not so much one for wacky outfits or hats. Within my dancing scene, I'm known as a very decent lead, and one of the few that isn't one half of a couple. Clothing wise, probably a little 'safe', I'll admit. I'm pleased with my torso & arms, so I tend to dress to try to enhance what I have; clothes that fit nicely, but not 'tight'. So in these colder months it's more likely to be a long sleeved sweater in a waffle texture, with dark jeans and a leather racer jacket.

^ I don't know I'm unironically the type of person who can't get even a hooker lol so maybe he can't too? It's a strange case, if he's someone who had one night stands in college but can't even get a date these days there must be something in between that had changed things for the worse.

I mean, I'm sure I could get a hooker if I really wanted. She'd probably be relieved to get a customer who's under 40 and relatively normal. However that's not really a road I'm interested in going down, as it's not the lack of sex that gets me down, it's more the lack of being desired.

If you truly feel it is your looks, perhaps finding someone to help in that area may be the answer. Something as small as a change in your facial hair can make a big difference. I'm putting in a pic below. It could be more you need to rethink your style than your just ugly and that's how it is. Below is the same guy. His hair didn't flatter him. He grew his beard and shaped it. Maybe got contacts. He brought out his best features. Cutting his hair slimmed his face. Growing a beard brought out his gorgeous lips and getting rid of the glasses shows his eyes. Maybe it would help to bring out your best features?
I hope this helps.

I've done all I can to really fix what I'm working with. I got contact lenses which is no issue. I don't really grow a great beard, it's all neck and no face. I'd do great in the Amish community. I do dress to enhance my features: I have a broad chest and shoulders and large-ish arms, so I dress to show them off, without going too try-hard.

 

[Forgottendanfan]

Interesting. Have you any idea what it might be about your face that you think makes it less than ideal? I'm just curious. I've been referred to as "ugly" a fair few times too, over the years and although I'd be reluctant to call myself ugly per se, I do have a couple of less than desirable features, such as a large hooked nose and being marginally overweight.

 

[Unsigned]

Interesting. Have you any idea what it might be about your face that you think makes it less than ideal? I'm just curious. I've been referred to as "ugly" a fair few times too, over the years and although I'd be reluctant to call myself ugly per se, I do have a couple of less than desirable features, such as a large hooked nose and being marginally overweight.

Only speaking for myself...I believe my issue is that I have an abnormally small head.
Within the standard deviation, yes, but still very small.
And I believe there is a genetic response for females to see this and believe small head == small brain == not a good provider & protector.

But...at least I have a lucrative career and the escorts don't care at all about my small head...I get laid...if not loved...

 

[CenotaphGirl]

From "market research", it certainly seems to be in the face area, which is annoying because there's very little I can do about that. My diet is fairly clean, and over years of exercise have developed a fairly athletic physique, with broad chest and shoulders. I have also been referred to several times as "alright from the neck down", which is also a clue.

There's a bit going on here. Firstly, the stuff about cocaine binges and fight stories etc, they're the sort of things that would attract/repel a person assuming they knew those things about you, they're not obvious to the naked eye. Okay, it turns out I'm not on coke or a member of a gang, but people do not know that when they dismiss me purely based on my looks. Most of my friends are fairly safe individuals, they've all had no issues like this.

As for status & power, I find this a tricky one, as it is also not always obvious to the naked eye. A friend in a social circle is the director of a banking division, on 120k, Jaguar with custom plates in the driveway, but when you see him he's in a baggy t shirt and jeans, no expensive watch or obvious signs. One of my best friends is a site manager for a building company, easily on 50K, but he's out in cargo pants and skateboarding t shirts from 2006. I can see why some people, particularly foreigners, attract themselves to items with big logos and brand names, so it's obvious from a distance that they have money and status. For myself, I'm not so big on obvious logos, so the expensive items of clothing that I own I bought more for the material or fit.

Which leads to standing out. I must admit that's probably an issue. I'm not so much one for wacky outfits or hats. Within my dancing scene, I'm known as a very decent lead, and one of the few that isn't one half of a couple. Clothing wise, probably a little 'safe', I'll admit. I'm pleased with my torso & arms, so I tend to dress to try to enhance what I have; clothes that fit nicely, but not 'tight'. So in these colder months it's more likely to be a long sleeved sweater in a waffle texture, with dark jeans and a leather racer jacket.

I mean, I'm sure I could get a hooker if I really wanted. She'd probably be relieved to get a customer who's under 40 and relatively normal. However that's not really a road I'm interested in going down, as it's not the lack of sex that gets me down, it's more the lack of being desired.

I've done all I can to really fix what I'm working with. I got contact lenses which is no issue. I don't really grow a great beard, it's all neck and no face. I'd do great in the Amish community. I do dress to enhance my features: I have a broad chest and shoulders and large-ish arms, so I dress to show them off, without going too try-hard.

You cant be serious! People said you are alright from the neck down!?! Thats appalling… not sure whats worse that or my “you’re prettier when you dont speak” comment lmaoo people are such pricks its unreal.

But you know what, you do seem confident, you don’t seem to think theres anything wrong with ya face so i’m sure theres not

I suppose maybe a new hair cut? Do you change up your hair style often?