Abusive nice guys

[VanillaCreme]

Studies don't mean **** when it comes to real relationships. That holds no meaning to me whatsoever. A study doesn't mean it's supposed to go down that way. PUA doesn't work for everyone, so it's not the most efficient thing.

 

[Pheenix]

(She has also written a good post on PUA if anyone are into that as well ^^)

 

[Haz]

this girl is a transgirl, right?

all these posts about social engineering makes her sound incredibly pretentious, I bet she is not half as good at "trolling people" as she claims. just makes her/him sound like a ***** making spurious claims on the internet

 

[floffyschneeman]

It is really simple actually, when one is nice but is expecting something in return, can we still consider that as someone genuinely nice? NO

There are shy girls with low-self esteem being nice to their crushes because they like them, but after their crushes get sexy, bitchy girlfriends, do they cry how they've been so nice and all but still not getting picked? Well, maybe yes. but not as much as most guys do.

I don't think society SHOULD have a structured system showing men how to be all manly and stuff, well ideally, that should be the case, but it would also mean that society should have the same thing for girls. Which I think is very unreachable. What it should be about is our own conscious choice to do what we think is right because it is what we believe is right rather than doing something cos it is what society dictates us to do, even if we don't get perks for doing it. Then there would be no stereotypes of ''nice guys'', ''bad guys'' and such. Everyone has his/her own good and bad side and learning how to be confident with oneself so if someone rejects him for being too nice, it wouldn't matter as much cos then he would know he only did what he think was right.


And lol at girls liking the ''bad guy'' image. That's just an image most girls get instantly attracted to but doesn't mean that they want to end up with that ''bad guy''. Just as most guys drool about women who shows more of her cleavage than her personality. At the end of the day, regardless of which stereotype or category you belong to, may it be ''bad guy'' or ''nice guy'', your partner will stick with you because of your being dependable, trust worthy, responsible, loving towards her and also that she loves you too and all in all that's what what the word ''nice'' really mean.



BTW, I've only read the first paragraph so if my post is so out of topic, I ask sorry in advance. I am just annoyed that people bash the idea of a nice guy and preach being a bad guy cos that's what girls like. Most people just don't understand what ''nice'' and ''bad'' really mean. Nice is when you have respect for everyone and etc, bad is when you treat every girl like a sex machine. arrogance =/= confidence=/= assholeness.
There's a time for dirtiness and naughtiness and there's also a time for niceness and decency.

 

[IgnoredOne]

Studies don't mean **** when it comes to real relationships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

I think I have all said all that is possible, or necessary.

 

[Pheenix]

I am sorta tired of every tightly written post by a professional is called "pretentious". Can you point out where she is?

And how is her gender relevant?

 

[SophiaGrace]

This thread has been done before. If you are interested in the topic, go and look it up.

 

[Pheenix]

It has? There are plenty "don't be a nice guy, you won't score!" threads but this one is decidedly different.

 

[SophiaGrace]

http://alonelylife.com/showthread.php?tid=13846

 

[Pheenix]

I see. Well, the blogpost was worth it on it's own, even if there doesn't need to spring up a new conversation around it I guess.

 

[Haz]

I am sorta tired of every tightly written post by a professional is called "pretentious". Can you point out where she is?

And how is her gender relevant?

a professional? professional what

Kinsey Hope (KH for short) is a snazzy sarcasm machine, made of wit, rage, awesome and silliness. She’s also a mid 20′s aged pagan, queer, polyamorous, Irish-Italian American woman of the trans variety, who has some disabilities and is a bit financially screwed at the moment (something that will hopefully be temporary if she manages to finish school).

so, just another blogger right.

just read her waxing lyrical at length about her adeptness at social engineering and manipulating people for instance, I really don't feel I have to point out specific instances of delusions of grandeur and intellect even if it is written to be dumbed down for the internet kiddies with lolspeak.

gender has everything to do it, this woman is claiming that she has the ultimate all defining objective perspective and there are "no excuses" because she used to be a guy, give me a break.

 

[Pheenix]

Where is she claiming that she has the ultimate gender?
You can't have delusions of grandeur without making actual factual mistakes.

---

Social Engineer. I guess professional wasn't the right word. Educated?

 

[allanh]

I am completely confused about myself.

I like this girl, I act nice to her, she may not be interested but obviously my niceness is part of my attempt to get to know her and create interest from scratch.

Does that make me an "abusive nice guy"? Am I being 'insincere'?

 

[VanillaCreme]

I am completely confused about myself.

I like this girl, I act nice to her, she may not be interested but obviously my niceness is part of my attempt to get to know her and create interest from scratch.

Does that make me an "abusive nice guy"? Am I being 'insincere'?

Well if it's an act, then I'd say yes, you're being quite insincere. However, if you're confused as to how to be towards here, then I wouldn't say you were being abusive. Act like yourself, whether that is being "nice" or "mean" to her. At least she would know the true you.

 

[allanh]

I am completely confused about myself.

I like this girl, I act nice to her, she may not be interested but obviously my niceness is part of my attempt to get to know her and create interest from scratch.

Does that make me an "abusive nice guy"? Am I being 'insincere'?

Well if it's an act, then I'd say yes, you're being quite insincere. However, if you're confused as to how to be towards here, then I wouldn't say you were being abusive. Act like yourself, whether that is being "nice" or "mean" to her. At least she would know the true you.

Well.. if we act towards our person of interest the same way we treat everyone else, then how would she know you are interested in her?

For example, to a normal friend, I might just say "hi" and walk past by. To her, I might make an effort to create a longer conversation.

Or to a normal friend, I may not offer to give him/her a lift home after work while I will do to my subject of interest.

Is putting extra effort to court someone we are interested in considered as "insincere" ? I mean, my "niceness" towards her will not change even if after we become a couple, so it shouldn't be considered as an "act"? or not?

 

[IgnoredOne]

Well.. if we act towards our person of interest the same way we treat everyone else, then how would she know you are interested in her?

For example, to a normal friend, I might just say "hi" and walk past by. To her, I might make an effort to create a longer conversation.

Or to a normal friend, I may not offer to give him/her a lift home after work while I will do to my subject of interest.

Is putting extra effort to court someone we are interested in considered as "insincere" ? I mean, my "niceness" towards her will not change even if after we become a couple, so it shouldn't be considered as an "act"? or not?

As I noted in my post, the central issue is that you're trying to find the rules when ultimately, there aren't any and more or less, you are always easily intepreted as "wrong." Were you too nice and seeking too much to seek her interest? You are a hypocrite! What happens if you're blunter and ask her directly? You are now crude, perhaps aggressive.

What's important, ultimately, is that you are sincere and honorable to yourself. If you can live with what you're doing, and if you can solidly feel what you are doing is correct, then proceed. Indeed, with that confidence, you can perhaps inspire confidence in others in you as well.

A good deal of what I've done could easily be intepreted negatively. One of my job roles involved actively deceiving, lying and manipulating - and yet I consider myself someone with an upstanding, perhaps even superior moral code than most.

In the end, you need to be true to yourself and face yourself in the mirror in the morning, rather than trying to justify yourself to an everchanging and honestly, nonexistant standard.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Is putting extra effort to court someone we are interested in considered as "insincere" ? I mean, my "niceness" towards her will not change even if after we become a couple, so it shouldn't be considered as an "act"? or not?

Well, no, not necessarily. We may be overly nice to someone we do like in that sense, but I don't think it's insincere or fake. It's just a natural feeling I suppose, to be extra sweet to someone you're crushing on.

 

[allanh]

Is putting extra effort to court someone we are interested in considered as "insincere" ? I mean, my "niceness" towards her will not change even if after we become a couple, so it shouldn't be considered as an "act"? or not?

Well, no, not necessarily. We may be overly nice to someone we do like in that sense, but I don't think it's insincere or fake. It's just a natural feeling I suppose, to be extra sweet to someone you're crushing on.

so , with that in mind, can you tell me, in your opinion, what kind of things men do are considered as "insincere"?

 

[Haz]

Where is she claiming that she has the ultimate gender?

I wouldn't say she is claiming "the ultimate gender" as such, i'm not even sure what that means.

And before anyone says it, because some ******* always says it, I am not saying this because I don’t know how it is for those guys. Guess what folks, I’m one of those rare trans women who considers herself to have been a guy before she realized and transitioned. And I pulled this **** for a bit. I was The Nice Guy™ before I realized it was ********. So I’ve been there.

I wouldn't consider this to make her particularly authoritative, though she claims it does. an appeal to authority

You can't have delusions of grandeur without making actual factual mistakes.

her arguments are hardly waterproof, they are a bunch of generalisations somewhat rooted in reality. you can pick apart any rant made by an amateur internet logician and drive whoever is trying to defend it up the wall

don't get me wrong I don't think everything she says is wrong it's mainly taking on this internet age sassy "*****" role just kind of rubs me up the wrong way. she addresses in the comments on one of her posts that there is a difference between the phoney nice guys she is complaining about and those who are genuine, so I guess I can let this one rest. Just all her other posts discussing social engineering, to me they come across as if she has skimmed through the wiki article and built a whole personal philosophy around it. You don't have to pretend to be educated to be a manipulative little cow.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Is putting extra effort to court someone we are interested in considered as "insincere" ? I mean, my "niceness" towards her will not change even if after we become a couple, so it shouldn't be considered as an "act"? or not?

Well, no, not necessarily. We may be overly nice to someone we do like in that sense, but I don't think it's insincere or fake. It's just a natural feeling I suppose, to be extra sweet to someone you're crushing on.

so , with that in mind, can you tell me, in your opinion, what kind of things men do are considered as "insincere"?

The only problem I have with guys is the fact that some of them think every woman wants him. And I think that's rather insincere and fake, and down right delusional. As long as you don't act like that, then I'm sure this girl will like you just fine. It's not really sincere when you're trying to get her attention as well as every other girl, imo.