If your your an average guy, things suck, and theres nothing you can do

[user 190541]

In less than a day this thread took a 180 degree turn and went from melancholic to actually uplifting. Amazing!

 

[user 139760]

So, that's my bullsh*t talk. But, beyond the bullsh*t. I think a lot of us are afraid. So we come up with excuses, reasons, and rationalizations to not face those fears.

That's my take on most of those threads, gentlemen. A LOT of people are like that, I'm no different.The difference is that I specifically try to face those fears head on. I act before my brain starts rationalizing all the different ways why it's a stupid idea, because it will.
Ultimate example would be, do you jump when the water's cold or take four hours dipping 1cm at a time. I take a running start and jump.
Doesn't mean it's smart. But acting is preferable to thinking and never doing. I've been single these last 15 years, that should tell you how selective I am, there's nothing wrong with that either @Unsigned , though it does limit you and make you sort of inflexible. For your own sake, if you could go about widening, it'd probably be good for you, but that's entirely your prerogative. There's nothing inherently wrong with preferences and standard, but, it won't help you solve your no female companion problem faster.
And I wish you to solve it lol. Be nice to see "Hey, I'm engaged" Unsigned.
Everyone deserves to be happy with someone. Well...almost everyone.

 

[sub5male]

No! The below average man only!

It goes without saying that in the western world dating is virtually unavailable to sub 5 men. I will make the concession that average men are the only group which self improvement may slightly help their chances with women though. Attractive men don't need to self improve to attract women and no amount of self improvement is going to make a short, ugly man attractive.

When most people talk about ugly men they are actually referring to average men who are lazy and let themselves go and not about true sub 5 men who have inherent physical characteristics which exclude them from interest from the women they are attracted to.

 

[sub5male]

In less than a day this thread took a 180 degree turn and went from melancholic to actually uplifting. Amazing!

Really? I don't consider drinking and having to pay for sex as being uplifting-they are certinly not useful copes for everyone,

 

[user 190541]

I don't either, but do let me tell you a secret, sub5male, it's not things that are in themselves uplifting, it's you who feels uplifted by them or not.

 

[TheRealCallie]

If you people would put even half as much effort into actually doing something as you put into making excuses, you might get somewhere.....

 

[sub5male]

I don't either, but do let me tell you a secret, sub5male, it's not things that are in themselves uplifting, it's you who feels uplifted by them or not.

I agree but can someone actually choose what they feel uplifted by? What some people may consider as successful copes, other consider as empty & counterproductive. The issue seems to be when one is unable to experience conditions in which their needs are met and are also unable find adequate copes to distract them from what their lives lack.

 

[user 139760]

If you people would put even half as much effort into actually doing something as you put into making excuses, you might get somewhere.....

heightfidence and/or faceinality wins the day. I don't know about you, but I learned two new words today! This'll really help my intellignorance.

 

[user 139760]

It goes without saying that in the western world dating is virtually unavailable to sub 5 men.

I'm maybe a four, lower five bar, extremely picky.
For several months now, I've been talking with someone who's at least a 7. Add in her personality, in my book, she's closer to 9 3/4.
I'm not an isolated case either. Your views are skewed.

 

[user 190541]

I agree but can someone actually choose what they feel uplifted by? What some people may consider as successful copes, other consider as empty & counterproductive. The issue seems to be when one is unable to experience conditions in which their needs are met and are also unable find adequate copes to distract them from what their lives lack.

As a matter of fact, what we feel uplifted by is not a constant throughout our lives. It's a basic reality of life. We are always changing, and change, broadly speaking, is in the nature of the universe. The phenomenon of consciousness wouldn't be possible if the universe were static. So, yes, what you feel uplifted by can be changed by your own actions in the longer or shorter span of your lifetime. To cite an example, the Stoics (and Nietzsche, for that matter), believed that our ideal of happiness should come from the realization of amor fati. Similarly, Epicureans would say that happiness comes from the realization of the truth regarding the nature of different types of pleasure, and the subsequent application of an ethics derived from the knowledge of this truth and so forth.

 

[Unsigned]

Really? I don't consider drinking and having to pay for sex as being uplifting-they are certinly not useful copes for everyone,

Completely get your point and I respect it.

But there is a little more to it than that.
- had two great meals out
- met friends and had a fun time
- enjoyed the day outside, both days had a nice cool breeze.
- I admitted more than once that I could not be happy with a woman anywhere near my own age, and would simply end up making both of us miserable, so paying for sex is really best for me now. So not a cope as much as accepting fate.

Yes, when I was younger, in my 20s or 30s, I suppose doing this was a cope. But now, it's just my life. When I complain here it's more about what mght have been or should have been, not about what is presently.

I'll try not to complain so much going forward.

 

[sub5male]

I'm maybe a four, lower five bar, extremely picky.
For several months now, I've been talking with someone who's at least a 7. Add in her personality, in my book, she's closer to 9 3/4.
I'm not an isolated case either. Your views are skewed.

My views are based on my own experiences along with speaking to other men, many other men in fact, in similar circumstances. The claims of average at best men scoring with women well above their looks level are as old as the internet itself. I don't doubt that it is possible in ideal circumstances but is far, far rarer than you make it out to be.

 

[sub5male]

As a matter of fact, what we feel uplifted by is not a constant throughout our lives. It's a basic reality of life. We are always changing, and change, broadly speaking, is in the nature of the universe. The phenomenon of consciousness wouldn't be possible if the universe were static. So, yes, what you feel uplifted by can be changed by your own actions in the longer or shorter span of your lifetime. To cite an example, the Stoics (and Nietzsche, for that matter), believed that our ideal of happiness should come from the realization of amor fati. Similarly, Epicureans would say that happiness comes from the realization of the truth regarding the nature of different types of pleasure, and the subsequent application of an ethics derived from the knowledge of this truth and so forth.

I agree again and that has been my own experience as well. My lack of success with women lead me to study such things as stoicism and buddhism but I have found no relief in anything to date. It is certainly difficult if not impossible to find contentment when your fundamental needs are not being met, at least it has been so for me.

 

[sub5male]

Completely get your point and I respect it.

But there is a little more to it than that.
- had two great meals out
- met friends and had a fun time
- enjoyed the day outside, both days had a nice cool breeze.
- I admitted more than once that I could not be happy with a woman anywhere near my own age, and would simply end up making both of us miserable, so paying for sex is really best for me now. So not a cope as much as accepting fate.

Yes, when I was younger, in my 20s or 30s, I suppose doing this was a cope. But now, it's just my life. When I complain here it's more about what mght have been or should have been, not about what is presently.

I'll try not to complain so much going forward.

I think coping and accepting fate can often be synonymous. I did not consider what you said as in any way complaining and it is good that you were able to find outlets for your frustration.

I think my own circumstance would likely be better if I were extraverted and had more mainstream interests but neither is the case. Along with my sub par physical appearance, these personality traits are the root causes of my very long term singledom.

 

[sub5male]

heightfidence and/or faceinality wins the day. I don't know about you, but I learned two new words today! This'll really help my intellignorance.

Of course they do-it's a well know fact that a man's confidence is based on his height & his personality is the result of his facial quality. That is why so many good looking men can be jerks and still be looked at as good people while so many ugly men are considered as creepy stalkers regardless of their postitive non-physical attributes.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I think coping and accepting fate can often be synonymous. I did not consider what you said as in any way complaining and it is good that you were able to find outlets for your frustration.

I think my own circumstance would likely be better if I were extraverted and had more mainstream interests but neither is the case. Along with my sub par physical appearance, these personality traits are the root causes of my very long term singledom.

If you feel like there's nothing you can do as you are, have you ever thought about...just going crazy and trying a bunch of things? Like, totally take the filter off.

I don't mean this in a bad or insulting way.
I mean like, if you always wanted to try some interest, or dress a certain way, things like that, but thought you couldn't because you thought you weren't the right kind of person for it, like "I want to do this thing but I can't because I'm not an athlete/artist/mechanical or tech person/etc."

I was thinking earlier about the post in this thread about "loving your fate". If you don't love your fate, be a different person who gets a different fate. You know that continuing to be "you", what you've gotten used to as the idea of "you", isn't working, so try something else?
You have to really believe it though, don't just wear someone else's uniform, that won't work.

Also what type of woman is your type? Looks, personality, interests, lifestyle etc.
In business, it's good to know what exactly you're selling, what it does, why people need it, and who your target market is. Who exactly is your target audience? You don't want to make someone feel like you're talking to them just because they are a woman, and any woman will do just as well as any other. People want to feel special, and that you're their type, you have something in common with them, some basis for talking that brings you together.

Also I'd request a name change, seriously. You want a name that empowers you, not a negative label that brings you down.

This is all coming from someone who has always battled with seeing themselves as a loser, so none of this is meant as an attack at all. Just trying to think of ideas.

 

[sub5male]

Thank you for the suggestions-It is refreshing to read thoughtful, well written idea's in what often seems to be the land of platitudes, personal attacks and fallacious accusations.

As an older man I have had a wide range of experiences so pretty much know what I like and don't like. Attempting to reinvent myself would not seem to be a productive endeavour because I already have interests & hobbies which I pursue and enjoy. They would however be much better if I had someone to share & enjoy them with. While I have become resigned to my fate, I am certainly not comfortable with it and likely never will be.

I think some people can delude or distract themselves enough to take the edge off of being alone but thus far this skill has eluded me. I cannot believe something by will alone so loving my fate would not work either.

Generally I find women of any race who are in good physical shape and who have similar interests & morals as attractive. Of course, what someone who has no options has as preferences is quite irrelevant, lol.

I think my user name accurately describes me, negative though it may be. As far as losers go, there are several different flavors imo. One can be a loser due to their action or inaction or they can be a loser because they have lost in life-i.e. are unable to find contentment due to extraneous circumstances. It is this later category which so often seems to trigger people who refuse to believe it is even possible, let alone commonplace.

Anyway, thanks again for your input. I hope you are still young & have a chance for things to turn around for you. Going through this life isolated & alone is quite a miserable experience and relationships are pretty much the only thing of any real value.

 

[TheSkaFish]

"insulting people doesn't make them step in line with your views, it makes them hate you
[and want to vote the opposite of you]"

^ saw that on Reddit today and immediately thought of this thread.

I think of a lot of guys here and elsewhere, when given nasty remarks about their lives and problems, just causes them to double down on what they say/do/how they are, even if on some level they themselves know it doesn't work.

I think about myself growing up, and how sometimes I wouldn't even give something a chance, even if it was in my best interest to at least consider it, or that it was really a nonissue/harmless, just because I associated it (sometimes even incorrectly) with "the cool kids"/rich kids/dudebros/people I regarded as a**holes, or because I thought of it as "conforming" and "submitting" to their assertion of dominance - what I always thought of as "being forced to play a game that I can't win, just so I can lose and accept the insult of being inferior". I felt insulted by all of it, like I was at fault for being what I was / not being what I was not which I felt I couldn't be if I wanted to, which made me feel like the whole game was stupid and it made me double down.

I'm not accusing any current and present members of doing this.
I'm just saying it's something to consider when debates get heated.
If you truly want to change someone's mind, and have a good-faith debate, it really helps to NOT insult them in the process.

 

[Unsigned]

"insulting people doesn't make them step in line with your views, it makes them hate you
[and want to vote the opposite of you]"

^ saw that on Reddit today and immediately thought of this thread.

I think of a lot of guys here and elsewhere, when given nasty remarks about their lives and problems, just causes them to double down on what they say/do/how they are, even if on some level they themselves know it doesn't work.

I think about myself growing up, and how sometimes I wouldn't even give something a chance, even if it was in my best interest to at least consider it, or that it was really a nonissue/harmless, just because I associated it (sometimes even incorrectly) with "the cool kids"/rich kids/dudebros/people I regarded as a**holes, or because I thought of it as "conforming" and "submitting" to their assertion of dominance - what I always thought of as "being forced to play a game that I can't win, just so I can lose and accept the insult of being inferior". I felt insulted by all of it, like I was at fault for being what I was / not being what I was not which I felt I couldn't be if I wanted to, which made me feel like the whole game was stupid and it made me double down.

I'm not accusing any current and present members of doing this.
I'm just saying it's something to consider when debates get heated.
If you truly want to change someone's mind, and have a good-faith debate, it really helps to NOT insult them in the process.

The "dudebros" just seem phony to me.
I dunno, maybe I am wrong.
But I can't see how life can be that simple for anyone.
Maybe it's because of my messed up childhood & teen years, but I just can't see how life can be like that.
It's like they are putting on a facade.
And maybe that works?
Who knows?
I just know that I cannot do that.

I mean, can life be as simple as:
"Hey bro! let's hit the gym!"
And:
"Yo, let's hit the club & score some babes!"

Not:
"Hey, have to go to sleep early tonight, I have a root canal tomorrow"
Or:
Q: "Hey, what did you do this weekend?"
A: "Well, I sat around in my boxer shorts, drank myself silly and watched the SVU marathon"

I just can't fathom life being that as simple as the "dudebros" make it seem.

 

[Draven]

I think I can see what you're talking about but at the same time I can adapt to honeysuckle and forget how I used to be in a way. Don't know why I'm trying to argue against dudebro nonphonyry but here's this cool video. He's what I imagine when I hear dudebro.