If your your an average guy, things suck, and theres nothing you can do

[humourless]

Do unto others before they do unto you.

 

[ardour]

I think you see those guys that should set off alarms and regular dudes alike have an easier time because they just arent thinking about it. Overthinking can lead to massive failure in almost every walk of life, especially relationships. The more you're worried about it, the bigger of an issue it becomes for you. They're not worried about it, so even if they go the same amount of time without being with someone, they just don't make it an issue so you don't hear about it from them. So it seems like they have no problem, because they don't make it a problem for themselves. It's kind've the same way where on facebook, you're only seeing what someone wants to post, typically the best parts of their life.

While I do think women set the president for dating however. Societally, men pursue and women accept or decline. Not every single case, but that does seem to be the basic flow most people live in. This whole thing where men "have a harder time getting someone than women" is a huge matter of skewed perspective. Are you asking out women you have absolutely no sexual interest in? Not likely. So why do men get mad when women who have no sexual interest in them decline their advances? Because it feels like you're failing more than they are even though you're not.

Men may get declined time after time, but there are a lot of women the proposal to enter a relationship never even comes their way.
It may feel worse for men because theyre in the mindset of it all lies on them and what they do whether or not they succeed but you seriously have to get to an understanding that just because you want something, no matter how desperately doesnt mean it will happen, no matter how hard you try. So chill, before the stress kills you. Its not all on you, or her, or him. Relationships just happen. Its not something you can recreate in a lab environment.

And yeah thats not great advice, because there isnt great advice. There is no miracule get six pack abs and a 12 foot dick / hourglass figure cure all for this issue. 

It eats away at us all.

It's not not so much anger at individuals but at the social dynamic that allows one group (or the majority of them) to sit back and take their pick while we have to wade in rejection and go through the inevitable existential ruminations if nothing comes of it. "What about the women who get no interest?" Yeah, I'd say there's very few have never been asked out, but the majority of  less conventionally attractive gals can go online and find someone genuine enough in a matter of days, so at the very least they get to feel wanted, even if none of the takers are appealing.

This wasn't my point though. Women reject men over weakness or the perception of it. That's the thing incels point out that's basically correct, even if the alpha/beta and obsession with "genetics" is laughable. I remember reading data showing that a wheelchair bound woman had a higher chance of having a partner than a man with clinical depression. That tells you a great deal. The man as initiator norm is as much about cutting out the weak  - the insecure, the shy, the socially inept etc.  - as it is about convenience. Men who can't take on that role simply aren't appealing. Admitting this reflects badly on them so they generally don't.

(Also *precedent)

 

[humourless]

On the other hand ………………...

 

[user 139760]

Do unto others before they do unto you.

Austin 3:16
;-)

------------

Now that the smoke from all the name calling has died down somewhat...
I feel genuine sympathy for men feeling like that. I do believe its an error in perception to think only men suffer through those feelings, however.
I think everyone, even the most attractive people, feel this way on occasion, even if they don't admit it. I think its a basic part of human nature.
What's important, to me, isn't wether it's actually true or not, because it almost NEVER is (I see ugly guys with cute girls, and vice versa, every day). What is important, is how you deal with it and turn it into something positive, instead of a crutch to lean on.

 

[squidge]

We live in a society where women have been built up and men relentlessly torn down. It's gotten so bad women have essentially become untouchable. If they are 300lbs or post provocative pictures of themselves on social media society is not allowed to question them. Instead they are told to accept them. Meanwhile a guy with a 'dad bod' is mercilessly trashed. This has led to a spoiled princess syndrome where most women believe they are equal to or better then men at everything. In their mind this makes men disposable.

Naturally women still desire a degree of male validation but that can easily be found on social media. This leaves men seeking female validation from women who are his physical and social equal. But he can't get it because those women get their validation online and don't need to get it from him.

This has given rise to the bitter incel community which is at historic highs. The common criticism of incels is that these men think they are entitled to sex. Common critiques are for these men to improve themselves and stop whining. Such responses are typical misandry you see on a daily basis. When men have problems, they are simply told to shut up and pull ther boot straps up and deal with it.

Think for a second that an incel has to endure. He's constantly told by society and media what a loser he is for not having a girlfriend or sex, not to mention his natural tendencies for wanting love from the opposite sex. So a significant portion of his self worth is tied up with female validation. When women, even those equal to him in status and physical looks ignore him because they get their validation from social media, this can be devastating. It's like an eco system that has been thrown out of balance and because men, not women are getting the raw deal nobody cares.

Women wonder where all the good men have gone when in reality they've set their expectations too high. They believe, due to the negative portrayal of men in the media and entertainment, and the inflation of their ego by feminism, that they deserve more then they really do. This leads them to frustration when they can't secure a Chad and only have normies and incels as legitimate options. This leads the princess to ponder where all the good men went.

Sometime after 30 when the wall starts to take effect they suddenly find Chads won't even hook up with them for one night. At this point they either keep up profiles on tinder etc for a steady flow of male validation with no intention of every legitimately responding to the normies and incels, or they become cat ladies because they feel no man is good enough for them.

As an average guy I wish I could ignore my desire for female validation. But I can't. It's in my DNA and constantly being shamed by society and the media for being single and a virgin makes it worse.

And there's nothing anyone can do

Maybe you could try not thinking you know what women want and think and stop generalizing. That's something you could do....

Maybe you could go and have a bad accident, the reason there are so many incels is because of misandrist pigs like you who get everything they want but expect men to be happy with nothing

Maybe you could try not thinking you know what women want and think and stop generalizing. That's something you could do....

 

[Azariah]

 

[Minus]

Maybe you could go and have a bad accident, the reason there are so many incels is because of misandrist pigs like you

I think we could get along better without you constantly insulting people.

 

[squidge]

I only insult people who attack me, especially the able **** face athelstan, that maggot preaches hate against people like me and i wont have it

 

[Minus]

Then have fun with it on your vacation.

 

[Just_another_one]

If you're an average guy, you have no particular problems to have an average love life

 

[Azariah]

Average guy? what that?

 

[theablekingathelstan]

Then expjain

We live in a society where women have been built up and men relentlessly torn down. It's gotten so bad women have essentially become untouchable. If they are 300lbs or post provocative pictures of themselves on social media society is not allowed to question them. Instead they are told to accept them. Meanwhile a guy with a 'dad bod' is mercilessly trashed. This has led to a spoiled princess syndrome where most women believe they are equal to or better then men at everything. In their mind this makes men disposable.

Naturally women still desire a degree of male validation but that can easily be found on social media. This leaves men seeking female validation from women who are his physical and social equal. But he can't get it because those women get their validation online and don't need to get it from him.

This has given rise to the bitter incel community which is at historic highs. The common criticism of incels is that these men think they are entitled to sex. Common critiques are for these men to improve themselves and stop whining. Such responses are typical misandry you see on a daily basis. When men have problems, they are simply told to shut up and pull ther boot straps up and deal with it.

Think for a second that an incel has to endure. He's constantly told by society and media what a loser he is for not having a girlfriend or sex, not to mention his natural tendencies for wanting love from the opposite sex. So a significant portion of his self worth is tied up with female validation. When women, even those equal to him in status and physical looks ignore him because they get their validation from social media, this can be devastating. It's like an eco system that has been thrown out of balance and because men, not women are getting the raw deal nobody cares.

Women wonder where all the good men have gone when in reality they've set their expectations too high. They believe, due to the negative portrayal of men in the media and entertainment, and the inflation of their ego by feminism, that they deserve more then they really do. This leads them to frustration when they can't secure a Chad and only have normies and incels as legitimate options. This leads the princess to ponder where all the good men went.

Sometime after 30 when the wall starts to take effect they suddenly find Chads won't even hook up with them for one night. At this point they either keep up profiles on tinder etc for a steady flow of male validation with no intention of every legitimately responding to the normies and incels, or they become cat ladies because they feel no man is good enough for them.

As an average guy I wish I could ignore my desire for female validation. But I can't. It's in my DNA and constantly being shamed by society and the media for being single and a virgin makes it worse.

And there's nothing anyone can do about it

Then explain why some men don’t care about sex. It’s clearly not as rooted in dna as some may believe

 

[Efbee]

We live in a society where women have been built up and men relentlessly torn down. It's gotten so bad women have essentially become untouchable. If they are 300lbs or post provocative pictures of themselves on social media society is not allowed to question them. Instead they are told to accept them. Meanwhile a guy with a 'dad bod' is mercilessly trashed. This has led to a spoiled princess syndrome where most women believe they are equal to or better then men at everything. In their mind this makes men disposable.

Naturally women still desire a degree of male validation but that can easily be found on social media. This leaves men seeking female validation from women who are his physical and social equal. But he can't get it because those women get their validation online and don't need to get it from him.

This has given rise to the bitter incel community which is at historic highs. The common criticism of incels is that these men think they are entitled to sex. Common critiques are for these men to improve themselves and stop whining. Such responses are typical misandry you see on a daily basis. When men have problems, they are simply told to shut up and pull ther boot straps up and deal with it.

Think for a second that an incel has to endure. He's constantly told by society and media what a loser he is for not having a girlfriend or sex, not to mention his natural tendencies for wanting love from the opposite sex. So a significant portion of his self worth is tied up with female validation. When women, even those equal to him in status and physical looks ignore him because they get their validation from social media, this can be devastating. It's like an eco system that has been thrown out of balance and because men, not women are getting the raw deal nobody cares.

Women wonder where all the good men have gone when in reality they've set their expectations too high. They believe, due to the negative portrayal of men in the media and entertainment, and the inflation of their ego by feminism, that they deserve more then they really do. This leads them to frustration when they can't secure a Chad and only have normies and incels as legitimate options. This leads the princess to ponder where all the good men went.

Sometime after 30 when the wall starts to take effect they suddenly find Chads won't even hook up with them for one night. At this point they either keep up profiles on tinder etc for a steady flow of male validation with no intention of every legitimately responding to the normies and incels, or they become cat ladies because they feel no man is good enough for them.

As an average guy I wish I could ignore my desire for female validation. But I can't. It's in my DNA and constantly being shamed by society and the media for being single and a virgin makes it worse.

And there's nothing anyone can do about it

There is something some gals can do about it. It won't cure you of your perceived misery but it sure would permit you to see some facets of our civilization differently. Those gals are pejoratively called "prostitutes" but I like to call them Ladies because in fact they are Ladies and I would argue more lady-like than a lot of women who have usurped that adjective for themselves without asking themselves what is a Lady or displaying any of the lady-like attitude and behavior indicative of a Lady.
So, go give some of that hard-earned money to a woman who will smile when you get in and will smile when you get out two hours later while you'll be wondering why you hadn't tried it before. I promise you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself.
We live in the weirdest times where everything is getting all ****** up and topsy-turvy. Desperate times ( and, really, Incels do seem desperate to me ) call for desperate measures.
I myself could get married in a month, I see a woman regularly and the subject of marriage has been raised before, so I do not consider myself an Incel ( especially that I was married twice before), but I'd rather not and she understands my stance perfectly. I think the government, the INjustice System and some women have taken far enough from me not to fall for that same trap again, no thank you ma'm!

 

[ardour]

There is something some gals can do about it. It won't cure you of your perceived misery but it sure would permit you to see some facets of our civilization differently. Those gals are pejoratively called "prostitutes" but I like to call them Ladies because in fact they are Ladies and I would argue more lady-like than a lot of women who have usurped that adjective for themselves without asking themselves what is a Lady or displaying any of the lady-like attitude and behavior indicative of a Lady.
So, go give some of that hard-earned money to a woman who will smile when you get in and will smile when you get out two hours later while you'll be wondering why you hadn't tried it before. I promise you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself.
We live in the weirdest times where everything is getting all ****** up and topsy-turvy. Desperate times ( and, really, Incels do seem desperate to me ) call for desperate measures.
I myself could get married in a month, I see a woman regularly and the subject of marriage has been raised before, so I do not consider myself an Incel ( especially that I was married twice before), but I'd rather not and she understands my stance perfectly. I think the government, the INjustice System and some women have taken far enough from me not to fall for that same trap again, no thank you ma'm!

How convincing is the act? And does that override the near certainty that this woman considers you just another repulsive 'John'.

Sorry, no, that's not a solution for desperately sad, isolated guys who have never received any romantic or sexual validation.

 

[Efbee]

How convincing is the act? And does that override the near certainty that this woman considers you just another repulsive 'John'.

Sorry, no, that's not a solution for desperately sad, isolated guys who have never received any romantic or sexual validation.

I haven't met one Lady who acted, yet, and I've used their services for 5 years now. They're all being themselves as I am myself and being allowed to without the snark remarks and the putdowns.
As for the 'repulsive John', how many wives have considered their husbands 'losers' while in the act? They just don't say anything and neither you or I will ever know unless she's obvious about it, but you know and I know that women are natural actresses.

It is definitely a solution for desperate and isolated guys who have never bedded a woman before. I've introduced 4 young men to their first sexual experiences with Ladies and they are now better off, at least they don't mop around like depressed shells of men anymore and can concentrate on other things and themselves.

You have your opinions and I have mine based on experience.

 

[ardour]

I haven't met one Lady who acted, yet, and I've used their services for 5 years now. They're all being themselves as I am myself and being allowed to without the snark remarks and the putdowns.
As for the 'repulsive John', how many wives have considered their husbands 'losers' while in the act? They just don't say anything and neither you or I will ever know unless she's obvious about it, but you know and I know that women are natural actresses.

It is definitely a solution for desperate and isolated guys who have never bedded a woman before. I've introduced 4 young men to their first sexual experiences with Ladies and they are now better off, at least they don't mop around like depressed shells of men anymore and can concentrate on other things and themselves.

You have your opinions and I have mine based on experience.

Those young men would have been amenable to the experience to start with., otherwise then wouldn't have gone through with it. For a man who's received nothing but negative attention from women, one that suffers from already high levels of neuroticism (i.e. most incels), well you better hope the sex worker's good at her job, and hiding any disdain, because the experience could make him suicidal.

 

[Slick]

Guys have it so hard. Poor guys without abs that are not getting screwed all the time. This is heartbreaking.lol

And if women don't look like Barbie they're Out of the loop with most men..

 

[Efbee]

Those young men would have been amenable to the experience to start with., otherwise then wouldn't have gone through with it. For a man who's received nothing but negative attention from women, one that suffers from already high levels of neuroticism (i.e. most incels), well you better hope the sex worker's good at her job, and hiding any disdain, because the experience could make him suicidal.

I haven't met one Lady who was bad at her job and not one - not one - has ever treated me with anything but respect and friendliness. I don't know them all though, I can only go by my experience and what I've seen but most of the time, in my opinion, and regarding myself and my preferences, I'd take a Lady over a so-called "girlfriend" or so-called "wife" any day of the week, especially with what goes on in our day and age.

 

[Aardra]

I haven't met one Lady who was bad at her job and not one - not one - has ever treated me with anything but respect and friendliness. I don't know them all though, I can only go by my experience and what I've seen but most of the time, in my opinion, and regarding myself and my preferences, I'd take a Lady over a so-called "girlfriend" or so-called "wife" any day of the week, especially with what goes on in our day and age.

Why does it seem that your definition of a "lady" is a one that is subservient and amenable to you, specifically?

 

[Efbee]

Why does it seem that your definition of a "lady" is a one that is subservient and amenable to you, specifically?

I'm free to call Sex Workers "Ladies" if I want to. It has nothing to do with mine or anyone's definition of the word 'Lady'.