I'm tired of being single

[bender22]

Most of the time I don't know how to "break the ice" so to speak. That's what really gets me if that helps you guys help me.

This is something that has become a lot clearer to me recently through experience. I believe breaking the ice comes down to your transition from opening statement/question to general conversation.

So your opening statement might be 'hi i'm john' or 'excuse me 'you're cute and I wanted to say hello.' I've found sometimes your opening statement can be enough in itself to break the ice, if you deliver it well. But usually the girl will still be a little anxious and uncertain after your opener. To break the ice from there, I've found it's very important to quickly transition to regular conversation. If you change the topic quickly by asking her questions or whatever, it will divert her attention away from any awkwardness. From then on you just need to fluff talk, ask some questions and the girl will usually reciprocate.

It can be very difficult to break the ice with some girls. You have to be able to adapt to each situation and that just comes with experience.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I disagree with this. Online dating is a good experience, because it gives you just that...experience. Whether that is experience in handling rejection or talking to people, doesn't matter, it helps people get their balance on how to deal with it.
Also, it is NOT just for good looking or interesting people. There are plenty of....well, the opposite, I guess, on there. However, what is deemed interesting and good looking to one person, won't be to the next person.

It does give you experience... but it can be very painful for folks like myself who have very little if any real life experience. It's like for most of your life (or mine, in this case) you take little initiative to have a social life, you never approach women due to low confidence and fear of rejection... and therefore can say to yourself "well, maybe if I had actually tried, things would have been different, I might have had a few relationships." By not trying, you get to keep your self-esteem up, but in a shaky way. This was what I did and it worked. Also what helped.. I have had a few occasions here and there in real life where girls would act interested, give off some surefire flirty signals, and I'm also fairly certain I've got average or better looks.

Well then you get to the dating site and your response rate is about 1 for every 10, of those rare times you get more than 2 responses from the same girl, you then ask "would you like to email" and nothing or.. "I'd rather not." All at once now, your self-esteem starts to shatter, and you begin to think.. had you actually tried in real life, maybe the results would be the same, as in indifference or simply rejection. So.. this is what really hurt, and just this one short experience on that site, has put my self-image into flux again.. uncertain of my worth, and perhaps less likely to try in real life now, than before.

The moral of the story then, I suppose, is if you have no experience out in the field (real life).. perhaps you should not get on a dating site. Perhaps real life experience is the best way to start. If you decide to have a go anyway: it's as I've said, a masochistic temperament is necessary, otherwise it could be damaging. Had I gone into it somehow believing women ignoring me or not replying is a wonderful thing, maybe it wouldn't have been so bad... so, mind games for yourself are a must.

Everything can be painful, whether online or off. Rejection or being ignored is always hard, it's not regulated to just online.
If you don't approach women due to a lack of confidence and a fear of rejection, you do not have higher self esteem, you have avoidance. It's in no way better than not trying, because you aren't trying at all. You can't succeed if you don't try, and with trying comes failure. Very few people get it right on the first try (and that's true with anything, not just this area). If you want to succeed, the first thing you have to do is accept the fact that you may get rejected, the next thing you have to do is try. EVERYONE has worth, no one is worthless.

Dating sites aren't for only people with experience. With that attitude, it's no wonder you don't have much success. I'm not trying to be offensive with that statement, so please don't take it that way, but it goes along with what I was saying before. It's you attitude that is hurting you, it's how you are looking at it. It's not about thinking being rejected and/or ignored is wonderful, it's about understanding that it WILL sometimes happen. Even to people with experience.

Considering the massive number of dating sites, some with very specific criteria, I find it hard to believe anyone couldn't find success on at least one of them. They have them for farmers, Christians, fetishes, races and everything else you could probably think of.
And if all else fails, you could try the paid ones.

This guy I mentioned said he had tried many sites over the years and not received even ONE reply, even with getting help for his profile. It boggled my mind. If the guy was telling the truth (and who would lie about this?) then the fact of the matter is, that's not going to be helpful for anyone's self-worth. So.. a cautionary statement for all.

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I am finding it hard to believe that if he did do everything you say he did, no one talked to him. There are billions of people on dating sites, even the worst people are going to get at least one response from someone.

 

[Cucuboth]

I disagree with this. Online dating is a good experience, because it gives you just that...experience. Whether that is experience in handling rejection or talking to people, doesn't matter, it helps people get their balance on how to deal with it.
Also, it is NOT just for good looking or interesting people. There are plenty of....well, the opposite, I guess, on there. However, what is deemed interesting and good looking to one person, won't be to the next person.

It does give you experience... but it can be very painful for folks like myself who have very little if any real life experience. It's like for most of your life (or mine, in this case) you take little initiative to have a social life, you never approach women due to low confidence and fear of rejection... and therefore can say to yourself "well, maybe if I had actually tried, things would have been different, I might have had a few relationships." By not trying, you get to keep your self-esteem up, but in a shaky way. This was what I did and it worked. Also what helped.. I have had a few occasions here and there in real life where girls would act interested, give off some surefire flirty signals, and I'm also fairly certain I've got average or better looks.

Well then you get to the dating site and your response rate is about 1 for every 10, of those rare times you get more than 2 responses from the same girl, you then ask "would you like to email" and nothing or.. "I'd rather not." All at once now, your self-esteem starts to shatter, and you begin to think.. had you actually tried in real life, maybe the results would be the same, as in indifference or simply rejection. So.. this is what really hurt, and just this one short experience on that site, has put my self-image into flux again.. uncertain of my worth, and perhaps less likely to try in real life now, than before.

The moral of the story then, I suppose, is if you have no experience out in the field (real life).. perhaps you should not get on a dating site. Perhaps real life experience is the best way to start. If you decide to have a go anyway: it's as I've said, a masochistic temperament is necessary, otherwise it could be damaging. Had I gone into it somehow believing women ignoring me or not replying is a wonderful thing, maybe it wouldn't have been so bad... so, mind games for yourself are a must.

Everything can be painful, whether online or off. Rejection or being ignored is always hard, it's not regulated to just online.
If you don't approach women due to a lack of confidence and a fear of rejection, you do not have higher self esteem, you have avoidance. It's in no way better than not trying, because you aren't trying at all. You can't succeed if you don't try, and with trying comes failure. Very few people get it right on the first try (and that's true with anything, not just this area). If you want to succeed, the first thing you have to do is accept the fact that you may get rejected, the next thing you have to do is try. EVERYONE has worth, no one is worthless.

Dating sites aren't for only people with experience. With that attitude, it's no wonder you don't have much success. I'm not trying to be offensive with that statement, so please don't take it that way, but it goes along with what I was saying before. It's you attitude that is hurting you, it's how you are looking at it. It's not about thinking being rejected and/or ignored is wonderful, it's about understanding that it WILL sometimes happen. Even to people with experience.

Considering the massive number of dating sites, some with very specific criteria, I find it hard to believe anyone couldn't find success on at least one of them. They have them for farmers, Christians, fetishes, races and everything else you could probably think of.
And if all else fails, you could try the paid ones.

This guy I mentioned said he had tried many sites over the years and not received even ONE reply, even with getting help for his profile. It boggled my mind. If the guy was telling the truth (and who would lie about this?) then the fact of the matter is, that's not going to be helpful for anyone's self-worth. So.. a cautionary statement for all.

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I am finding it hard to believe that if he did do everything you say he did, no one talked to him. There are billions of people on dating sites, even the worst people are going to get at least one response from someone.

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It's happened to me.

I've been on some dating sites for over 10 years now, and have never made a contact through any of them. Even after paying to have a profile written (an offer by one of the dating sites, with a guarantee that it would work) I've never had a reply or a response.

 

[bender22]

It's happened to me.

I've been on some dating sites for over 10 years now, and have never made a contact through any of them. Even after paying to have a profile written (an offer by one of the dating sites, with a guarantee that it would work) I've never had a reply or a response.

Why would anyone persist with something that doesn't work for 10 years? I'm not sure why you would lie about something like this but I find it very hard to believe you wouldn't get at least a few replies if you're sending out enough messages, not being to picky with who you message and if your messages aren't extremely creepy.

 

[Batman55]

Why would anyone persist with something that doesn't work for 10 years? I'm not sure why you would lie about something like this but I find it very hard to believe you wouldn't get at least a few replies if you're sending out enough messages, not being to picky with who you message and if your messages aren't extremely creepy.

Well, that makes two now! The other guy I was talking about was not Cucuboth. Again it does boggle the mind especially if we are talking about 10 years and literally not a single response? It seems very strange because:

1) There are some polite women out there, even on dating sites, who will say hello just for the heck of it.
2) Some women want to get out of the "selective" response rating and will reply to folks they have no interest in.

One thing that bender touches on, which is possible, is perhaps think about who you are sending messages to. Are these *all* women you would consider attractive? If that is the case, you have part of your answer, right there. Classically attractive women get the most messages and will be super-selective.

---

Everything can be painful, whether online or off. Rejection or being ignored is always hard, it's not regulated to just online.
If you don't approach women due to a lack of confidence and a fear of rejection, you do not have higher self esteem, you have avoidance. It's in no way better than not trying, because you aren't trying at all.

There's no doubt that it is avoidance. But it's as I said last time, there is a slight psychological benefit to this kind of avoidance, that being you can evade sharp and direct blows to your self-esteem and maintain that perhaps you would have some success if you really did try. Consider it as similar to the benefit one gains from following any religion, it is something you cannot prove but nonetheless it benefits your mental health.

And lastly, I don't want to find out if I really am as undesirable as I suspect I might be: that would simply obliterate my ego. I don't see what is so good about accepting low self-worth, which becomes a logical conclusion if no woman ever wants anything to do with you. I would only be more depressed and possibly even lower-functioning, if I were to confirm my worst fears about my value to the opposite sex. To be honest it seems as if the guys who tried and were constantly rejected, in this forum, have worse depression and lower self-image than those who are still "green."

 

[African_weasel]

From my experience, everything seems to be transactional. Something along the means of "what do I need to give up to keep this person"?

 

[ShybutHi]

There are things which you have to forfeit when you are with another person, things you might like to partake in during your free time for example. Everyone has their own interests, but you "should" be with the person because you enjoy being with them in the first place and preferably have common interests or an interest in what the other half enjoys. One would certainly hope it is mutual.

Calling it transactional is kind of correct, however it should be mutual and not forced. That is a part of the foundation for a healthy relationship, give and take mutually because of a true desire to do so for the other person. If not then there is often communication breakdown and ultimately potential of relationship failure.

An extreme example, but as everyone well knows, some people are prepared to give their own life for their loved ones.

 

[gnome3]

Hi, y'all. I haven't been on this site for a long time, as I was living with someone for a few years. It was a total nightmare to put it bluntly and simply. It's been about almost a year since she left (per my request). Now, I am living by myself again, and I'm starting to get that feeling of urgency of getting back in the saddle again, hitting up on women at my place of employment, etc.

I have gone on a few dates during the past 6 months, but never went any further with it due to my skepticism about the person. She just wasn't independent enough, and I'm not interested in saving anyone. I have been getting somewhat desperate, however, and tried putting a personal ad on Craigslist. I got no responses. I even put a few pictures on myself on the ad. Only one reply from a scam person which I can figure out quite easily. My CL ad was posted for 3 days, and last night I deleted it.

Lots of people on the dating sites, and from my past experience with them, I really don't want to go down that road. Sure, there are some genuine people seeking possible, long term relationships on those sites, but many are just there for the meat market as well. I'm not just talking about the women, but both sexes. I personally have a friend who does quite well on the dating sites, but for one reason or another, he finds fault with the person he's met, and after sleeping with them a few times, sends them on their way, and moves onto the next. I'm sure that there are many like him on those sites, and they just keep trading each other off. Do I want to get caught up in that cycle? Not really, so I just keep hoping that I'll find someone on my own, but that hasn't worked out very well.

So, I am getting lonely, and here I am, back on this forum. I really need to mellow out, and remember that being alone isn't the worst of things, and that there are benefits to being single and living by myself. The last thing I want to do is settle for just anyone for the sake of companionship. Anyway, it's good to be here again. This forum helps during tough times. It always has. I'm going to read some of the other threads here, and start getting used to being here again. Sorry for the long-winded rambling. Off to work now, but look forward to returning to this site tonight. :rolleyes2:

 

[Batman55]

Lots of people on the dating sites, and from my past experience with them, I really don't want to go down that road. Sure, there are some genuine people seeking possible, long term relationships on those sites, but many are just there for the meat market as well. I'm not just talking about the women, but both sexes. I personally have a friend who does quite well on the dating sites, but for one reason or another, he finds fault with the person he's met, and after sleeping with them a few times, sends them on their way, and moves onto the next. I'm sure that there are many like him on those sites, and they just keep trading each other off. Do I want to get caught up in that cycle? Not really, so I just keep hoping that I'll find someone on my own, but that hasn't worked out very well.

That's an interesting observation about dating sites. As I understand it, and from what I have seen myself during the short time I was on a dating site, it seems women in there for the "meat market" or open to NSA sensual relations are rare. You seem to think it's common. But what I saw was half the time they have a disclaimer about that in particular, "I am NOT in this for something casual, etc" and of course I've not very often seen "short-term dating" listed in profiles. I would think they're not omitting anything there, right?

.. and this is not to say that I'm interested in being a shallow human being. Quite the contrary, as I believe virtuous romance comes first above all. It was just my observation, I was surprised to read that you saw the opposite.

 

[ardour]

There's no doubt that it is avoidance. But it's as I said last time, there is a slight psychological benefit to this kind of avoidance, that being you can evade sharp and direct blows to your self-esteem and maintain that perhaps you would have some success if you really did try. Consider it as similar to the benefit one gains from following any religion, it is something you cannot prove but nonetheless it benefits your mental health.

And lastly, I don't want to find out if I really am as undesirable as I suspect I might be: that would simply obliterate my ego. I don't see what is so good about accepting low self-worth, which becomes a logical conclusion if no woman ever wants anything to do with you. I would only be more depressed and possibly even lower-functioning, if I were to confirm my worst fears about my value to the opposite sex. To be honest it seems as if the guys who tried and were constantly rejected, in this forum, have worse depression and lower self-image than those who are still "green."

I'll chime in to concur with this. Right now the only thing maintaining a sliver of self-esteem in relation to the opposite sex are fantasies around what might have been had I made more effort. Having it made clear just how unattractive I am would sting and destroy the illusions. It isn't so much rejection but the negative reactions I'm likely to get from women - at the very least their discomfort will be obvious. Not sure if I could deal with how that's going to feel, and I'm scared to find out.

Remaining resigned to being alone is the cowardly option, but perhaps a more understandable one for those with genuine doubts about their ability to cope. For example those prone to depression or extreme insecurity. I can't help but admire the thick-skinned who go through a lot in an effort to find someone, but there's something weird about being able to keep going after all those rejections, seemingly without it affecting them. Guess they're just made of stronger stuff.

All that can be done is to see how much you can take. You may find you're capable of being more resilient than you thought.

 

[Batman55]

I'll chime in to concur with this. Right now the only thing maintaining a sliver of self-esteem in relation to the opposite sex are fantasies around what might have been had I made more effort. Having it made clear just how unattractive I am would sting and destroy the illusions. It isn't so much rejection but the negative reactions I'm likely to get from women - at the very least their discomfort will be obvious. Not sure if I could deal with how that's going to feel, and I'm scared to find out.

Remaining resigned to being alone is the cowardly option, but perhaps a more understandable one for those with genuine doubts about their ability to cope. For example those prone to depression or extreme insecurity. I can't help but admire the thick-skinned who go through a lot in an effort to find someone, but there's something weird about being able to keep going after all those rejections, seemingly without it affecting them. Guess they're just made of stronger stuff.

All that can be done is to see how much you can take. You may find you're capable of being more resilient than you thought.

Agree... you seem to get it. How 'bout another rep point

In my case, I think one of the issues underlying my difficulty with the concept of indifference/rejection from the fairer sex (in addition to many other things) is the fact that I was very much overprotected in childhood.. I was spoiled silly at times. This is not too rare where I'm from, in the relatively affluent suburbs.. far too often, I just didn't have to try. It leads to entitlement.

Of course then you get older you're expected to do things on your own and just simply roll with the punches.. it doesn't turn out so well. There's more to my story, there's more behind the social anxiety/avoidance.. but most certainly, this is one of the major problems, and I've found it's very hard to fix.

 

[Red_Wedding_Casualty]

Batman55 and Ardour have pretty much pinpointed one of my primary issues here.

I've spoken about this in another post, but it reminds me of my current group of friends whom continue to try to see my woes of loneliness end. OK. I've no doubt that they do harbour the same kinds of doubts and anxieties as I do. What I don't think they've realised(and what I haven't been able to put into words until now), is that thanks to their worldly experiences, they're made of sterner stuff than I. Like Batman55, I've spent most of my life somewhat segregated and sheltered from the real world. Hell, I never really started socializing until mid twenties. I've done the whole 'bullied at school', but thanks to being sheltered by my grandparents for the most part, I never really fought back knowing there was a safe place to hide. Like everyone else, I had crushes. Never acted on them for reasons that should be obvious. As a result, I've more or less been staggering through early adulthood. My sense of self-worth holding the same fortitude as an overstacked jenga tower.

This latest saga I find myself in is unique in a way. Here I have met a girl whom I have boldly declared to myself that no others will interest me after her. Without any further influence from me, my predictions see her friendzoning me, before eventually becoming just another name in my friends list on steam. This is the best outcome, as my sense of self worth remains unresolved-thus leaving me with a pleasant 'what if' fantasy that I can daydream about. Discreet invervention or 'doing the unthinkable' see this end far more unpleasantly for me. Without going into specifics, my feelings for her are so strong that the predicted rejection shatters me to the point where I discard our common interests to relieve the pain of her memory.

 

[African_weasel]

There was this guy in Santa Barbra named Elliot Rodger, the son of the Hunger Games director, who shot seven people just because he couldn't get a girlfriend. After reading what he wrote about... well basically his life and revenge plan. I've been low the whole day. As usual, my over sympathetic *** felt sorry for them all. He was talked about in his videos about how he had pretty much everything. Nice clothes, a BMW, designer sunglasses, everything. He thought that attract those blondes he always wanted to date and got no results. Now people adore him after the fact that he's dead. I really feel bad about some of the same stuff that went through my head as well. Just a little rant about my day.

 

[Red_Wedding_Casualty]

I normally make an effort to avoid anything with 'infowars' on them-mainly because of the nutty conspiracy theories they string up, and the even nuttier people that follow them. Buuut..... reading this has made me ask a question. If I were to do the unthinkable, would the sting of rejection cause me to lose my **** and hurt myself or worse-someone else? Perhaps never knowing is not only for my protection, but for the those around me too.

 

[bender22]

There was this guy in Santa Barbra named Elliot Rodger, the son of the Hunger Games director, who shot seven people just because he couldn't get a girlfriend. After reading what he wrote about... well basically his life and revenge plan. I've been low the whole day. As usual, my over sympathetic *** felt sorry for them all. He was talked about in his videos about how he had pretty much everything. Nice clothes, a BMW, designer sunglasses, everything. He thought that attract those blondes he always wanted to date and got no results. Now people adore him after the fact that he's dead. I really feel bad about some of the same stuff that went through my head as well. Just a little rant about my day that was sort of related to this. http://www.infowars.com/in-death-girls-and-boys-swoon-over-santa-barbara-mass-murderer/

Doesn't that show that status and money aren't everything? There are far more important things than status and money when it comes to attracting women.

I find it strange that a few people have described a 'what if fantasy' as something pleasant. For me, there is hardly anything worse than 'what if' What if leads to regret and an unfulfilled life.

 

[ardour]

I find it strange that a few people have described a 'what if fantasy' as something pleasant. For me, there is hardly anything worse than 'what if' What if leads to regret and an unfulfilled life.

Not to say that fantasy is better than being with the person, not at all. 'What if fantasies' maintain a sham of self esteem when the real-world outcome of taking action is likely to shatter it.

 

[gnome3]

There was this guy in Santa Barbra named Elliot Rodger, the son of the Hunger Games director, who shot seven people just because he couldn't get a girlfriend. After reading what he wrote about... well basically his life and revenge plan. I've been low the whole day. As usual, my over sympathetic *** felt sorry for them all. He was talked about in his videos about how he had pretty much everything. Nice clothes, a BMW, designer sunglasses, everything. He thought that attract those blondes he always wanted to date and got no results. Now people adore him after the fact that he's dead. I really feel bad about some of the same stuff that went through my head as well. Just a little rant about my day that was sort of related to this. http://www.infowars.com/in-death-girls-and-boys-swoon-over-santa-barbara-mass-murderer/

Watch what you say on this forum. If it pertains to loneliness, but it upsets people, your thread will be closed. It doesn't matter if others can relate to it. If it upsets anybody, you will be shut down. It's best to stick with the touchy-feelie topics unless you wish to be censored, because most of the members on this forum can't handle the reality of the world, and need to be protected from such things as controversial videos, and the such. We are all too delicate to handle these things, and need to be treated as misguided children in the cookie jar. Wevebeenframed ~

 

[EveWasFramed]

There was this guy in Santa Barbra named Elliot Rodger, the son of the Hunger Games director, who shot seven people just because he couldn't get a girlfriend. After reading what he wrote about... well basically his life and revenge plan. I've been low the whole day. As usual, my over sympathetic *** felt sorry for them all. He was talked about in his videos about how he had pretty much everything. Nice clothes, a BMW, designer sunglasses, everything. He thought that attract those blondes he always wanted to date and got no results. Now people adore him after the fact that he's dead. I really feel bad about some of the same stuff that went through my head as well. Just a little rant about my day that was sort of related to this. http://www.infowars.com/in-death-girls-and-boys-swoon-over-santa-barbara-mass-murderer/

Watch what you say on this forum. If it pertains to loneliness, but it upsets people, your thread will be closed. It doesn't matter if others can relate to it. If it upsets anybody, you will be shut down. It's best to stick with the touchy-feelie topics unless you wish to be censored, because most of the members on this forum can't handle the reality of the world, and need to be protected from such things as controversial videos, and the such. We are all too delicate to handle these things, and need to be treated as misguided children in the cookie jar. Wevebeenframed ~

Enjoy your ban - you richly deserve it.

 

[bender22]

It's not to say that fantasy is better than being with the person, not at all. 'What if fantasies' maintain a pretence of self esteem when the real-world outcome of taking action is likely to shatter it.

Yes I understand that. But personally I consider the pain of regretting what could have been to be much worse than the pain associated with rejection.

From what I've observed in others, those who commit to taking action will get good or at least improve their situation. This includes guys who aren't physically attractive, guys who have no high status and guys who have poor social skills. It's only a matter of time.

It probably does help if you firstly accept that you have inherent value, something to offer to women and that is not dependent on what others think of you or how women react to you.

 

[ardour]

Yes I understand that. But personally I consider the pain of regretting what could have been to be much worse than the pain associated with rejection.

From what I've observed in others, those who commit to taking action will get good or at least improve their situation. This includes guys who aren't physically attractive, guys who have no high status and guys who have poor social skills. It's only a matter of time.

It probably does help if you firstly accept that you have inherent value, something to offer to women and that is not dependent on what others think of you or how women react to you.

Put it this way, with a crush where there's no indication they feel anything in return, as there never is, I can take action and feel horrible for the next few months, or I can stay within my comfort zone and at least maintain some emotional stability.

If I do something that make my feelings clear, I'll get a 'I'm not interested, and I'm shocked that you're interested in me' type of response; the nervous smile, the avoidance from there on. Her reaction, literally the look on her face, burnt into my memory. Call it cowardice, it wouldn't be far off the mark, but a few regrets are preferable to depressing memories that feel terrible and confirm how undesirable I am.

It's not really about improving a situation, that kind of logic doesn't come into it. I'm not interested in taking the hits with the goal of eventually finding "someone". It's usually someone in particular, and no one else.

We're built differently, we have different outlooks, and it's not like I'm recommending mine.