Incels - A Symptom of Sick Social System

[Unsigned]

here ya go:

That's "Angry Wall St Guy" from the 80s.
Could be just about any guy I went to HS with after they graduated college.

And I was in IT on Wall St ...in a position for them to STILL dump on me...I never flipped the script...

 

[WillPower]

I mean I'd say im an exception to the rule, but are you guys telling me, you haven't seen "losers" in relationships... ugh just look at my ex biggest one of all time, still pulled me. It's like you all just need to just stop caring about it so much.

I think every guy who has trouble with women has seen these types of guys. Isn't that where the whole, "I'm such a nice guy. Why doesn't any woman like me?" or "Why are women into bad guys?" mindset comes from? Pointing these types of guys out doesn't make guys more motivated or gives them more hope. It just makes them more frustrated, lol.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I think every guy who has trouble with women has seen these types of guys. Isn't that where the whole, "I'm such a nice guy. Why doesn't any woman like me?" or "Why are women into bad guys?" mindset comes from? Pointing these types of guys out doesn't make guys more motivated or gives them more hope. It just makes them more frustrated, lol.

Yeah but they are the "nice guys" that only wanna pay for my meal if I am gonna take them home with me... they aren't nice lol They are the biggest jerks of all time.

 

[WillPower]

Yeah but they are the "nice guys" that only wanna pay for my meal if I am gonna take them home with me... they aren't nice lol They are the biggest jerks of all time.

That is very true. This is something I've talked about in the past. It is something I am definitely working on. Being nice without any expectations of getting something back.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Girls don't want guys with edge, girls want guys who are edgy.
They're cool with a guy who can kick another guys ass, but they don't want no Kingpin.
Basically, if she can't influence him than she won't want him because that's actually scary.
It's like the difference between seeing a horror movie and seeing a crime scene. A horror movie is a movie, nobody bats an eyelash because it isn't real. But nobody likes being around yellow tape, flashing lights, and a handful of police officers.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

That is very true. This is something I've talked about in the past. It is something I am definitely working on. Being nice without any expectations of getting something back.

I like this, self improvement! I remember having to pretend I wanted to sleep with a guy because he threatened to leave me in the middle of no where, Jesus... what a jerk lol

Girls don't want guys with edge, girls want guys who are edgy.
They're cool with a guy who can kick another guys ass, but they don't want no Kingpin.
Basically, if she can't influence him than she won't want him because that's actually scary.
It's like the difference between seeing a horror movie and seeing a crime scene. A horror movie is a movie, nobody bats an eyelash because it isn't real. But nobody likes being around yellow tape, flashing lights, and a handful of police officers.

Yeah manipulating men is a typical girls favourite pass time in my opinion lmao.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Yeah manipulating men is a typical girls favourite pass time in my opinion lmao.

I know. I've had time to figure this one out. Just with things like that with men, unless they have enough experience, girls should really just be more direct about that. Because a lot of otherwise worthwhile men are going to trash their lives trying to get a girl being a tryhard. I guess the feminine equivalent would be a worthwhile housewife with value, that the man just cheats on because he's an ******* not worth his own. I'm just trying to clarify so men don't get the wrong idea and end up destroying their own lives, is all.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I know. I've had time to figure this one out. Just with things like that with men, unless they have enough experience, girls should really just be more direct about that. Because a lot of otherwise worthwhile men are going to trash their lives trying to get a girl being a tryhard. I guess the feminine equivalent would be a worthwhile housewife with value, that the man just cheats on because he's an ******* not worth his own. I'm just trying to clarify so men don't get the wrong idea and end up destroying their own lives, is all.

Yeah I mean there are also harmless (ish) types of manipulation, I once played a game of I wonder if I can get him to say he loves me by 4 pm... manipulated him to thinking it was completely his idea, when I look back it was so ridiculous, but theres something about controlling someone that has so much more physical strength than you do that can be addictive. All I can say is, watch out men, no woman is worth losing yourself for. However, please try to take some of the manipulation with a pinch of salt, pretty sure it was just a survival mechanism.

 

[ardour]

Yeah but they are the "nice guys" that only wanna pay for my meal if I am gonna take them home with me... they aren't nice lol They are the biggest jerks of all time.

....Why not pay for your own meal then? Take those guys out of the equation. If you don't want a transactional attitude then make it less transactional on your end

 

[CenotaphGirl]

....Why not pay for your own meal then? Take those guys out of the equation. If you don't want a transactional attitude then make it less transactional on your end

Lol my brain tried hard, so hard to understand this but what do you mean? Why dont I pay for the first date? Because I promise you I didnt ask him out to anywhere

 

[ardour]

Lol my brain tried hard, so hard to understand this but what do you mean? Why dont I pay for the first date? Because I promise you I didnt ask him out to anywhere

I meant pay for your own meal. Then at very least he can't pull that you owe me something crap. But there's no reason you can't ask men out. It's 2023. Of course, I get that women want to be pursued (but the right men) but it'd be safer for everyone if they womaned up a bit and did that.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I meant pay for your own meal. Then at very least he can't pull that you owe me something crap. But there's no reason you can't ask men out. It's 2023. Of course, I get that women want to be pursued (but the right men) but it'd be safer for everyone if they womaned up a bit and did that.

Men are weird, so you want me to go out with you, pay for my own meal, for what exactly? To be my friend? But then get mad if I “friendzone” you… lets face it I cant win. how am I supposed to win?

 

[TheSkaFish]

Men are weird, so you want me to go out with you, pay for my own meal, for what exactly? To be my friend? But then get mad if I “friendzone” you… lets face it I cant win. how am I supposed to win?

You're supposed to win by landing the guy you want, by being the woman he's looking for...same as the rest of us, ultimately.

How can I be what someone else wants, while being me at the same time - something that's within my capacity to be, and is also genuinely me, my real interests thoughts and feelings - it's a question I think a lot about, all the time. It's a hard question and the world doesn't help things.

"For what"? Just to get the whole process started. Not even to be your friend but just to see if you like each other's company enough at all to want to see each other again and keep talking, keep getting to know each other. The more casual a first date is, the better, I think. It takes a little while before you find out if this person is someone you can move forward with so I think the focus should be on things like, is this person interesting enough, do you like them enough as a person, etc. You can get into the formal stuff later after it's established that you're going to give each other a serious try. Having to do all that formal stuff too early adds more pressure on top of an already stressful situation of just trying to make a good enough first impression.

All of that "I bought you a meal, now you owe me", "friendzone" stuff happens, I think, when one person decides the other is not the kind of person they're looking for. If everyone pays for their own meal, then you can both focus on if you enjoy each other's company or not.

Sometimes it's an honest mismatch, but sometimes I think someone makes a bad impression out of not knowing any better, not knowing how to play their part right, not being where they should be as a person, and things like that where it didn't necessarily have to end that way.

 

[Unsigned]

Men are weird, so you want me to go out with you, pay for my own meal, for what exactly? To be my friend? But then get mad if I “friendzone” you… lets face it I cant win. how am I supposed to win?

I totally get this and I agree the male should always pay for any date (at least in my "world").
But...
The other side of the coin is that any female must know that if a guy is asking you out, he is interested in being more than just friends.
This is just plain common sense.
Does a steak, lobster, and a bottle of wine mean she "owes" him anything? Of course not.
But no guy would ask a girl out and take her on a date if he was not interested in sex -- at least eventually, especially if he asks for a 2nd date.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Yeah I mean there are also harmless (ish) types of manipulation

Ehhh...

I don't think there is such thing as harmless manipulation.

I think it's one of those "do unto others, as you wish to be done unto you" type things.

If you don't like male players, you shouldn't try to be a player yourself.
It just creates more of what you don't like, and gives them ammo/reasons to do what you don't like.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

You're supposed to win by landing the guy you want, by being the woman he's looking for...same as the rest of us, ultimately.

How can I be what someone else wants, while being me at the same time - something that's within my capacity to be, and is also genuinely me, my real interests thoughts and feelings - it's a question I think a lot about, all the time. It's a hard question and the world doesn't help things.

"For what"? Just to get the whole process started. Not even to be your friend but just to see if you like each other's company enough at all to want to see each other again and keep talking, keep getting to know each other. The more casual a first date is, the better, I think. It takes a little while before you find out if this person is someone you can move forward with so I think the focus should be on things like, is this person interesting enough, do you like them enough as a person, etc. You can get into the formal stuff later after it's established that you're going to give each other a serious try. Having to do all that formal stuff too early adds more pressure on top of an already stressful situation of just trying to make a good enough first impression.

All of that "I bought you a meal, now you owe me", "friendzone" stuff happens, I think, when one person decides the other is not the kind of person they're looking for. If everyone pays for their own meal, then you can both focus on if you enjoy each other's company or not.

Sometimes it's an honest mismatch, but sometimes I think someone makes a bad impression out of not knowing any better, not knowing how to play their part right, not being where they should be as a person, and things like that where it didn't necessarily have to end that way.

The thing is Ska, I dont want a man that expects me to go 50/50 with him, if I did I’d have nooo issue with this, but I feel like im false advertising and totally being everything I am not to secure a partner. Whoppsie not hijacking I believe in the incel plight its just dinner = a night with me is insulting, i’d rather they just offered the actual going rate so I can see how he sees me and he can see the door.

I totally get this and I agree the male should always pay for any date (at least in my "world").
But...
The other side of the coin is that any female must know that if a guy is asking you out, he is interested in being more than just friends.
This is just plain common sense.
Does a steak, lobster, and a bottle of wine mean she "owes" him anything? Of course not.
But no guy would ask a girl out and take her on a date if he was not interested in sex -- at least eventually, especially if he asks for a 2nd date.

When I say yes 8/10 I might be interested however like ska said, sometimes they blow it, and not every woman is comfortable sleeping with complete strangers even if she likes the idiot lol

Ehhh...

I don't think there is such thing as harmless manipulation.

I think it's one of those "do unto others, as you wish to be done unto you" type things.

If you don't like male players, you shouldn't try to be a player yourself.
It just creates more of what you don't like, and gives them ammo/reasons to do what you don't like.

Yeah this was when I was really young but I think men realise so late women can be manipulative so i am exposing some secrets. Like my brother is used 24/7 by girls and believes all women are angels lol So I try to expose more toxic sides

 

[Unsigned]

When I say yes 8/10 I might be interested however like ska said, sometimes they blow it, and not every woman is comfortable sleeping with complete strangers even if she likes the idiot lol

Again, I totally get it and completely agree that you owes him nothing. (Other than being relatively polite on the date as long as he does the same).

My point is simply that if a guy asks you on a date, he is 100% 10/10 doing it because he eventually wants to have a sexual relationship.
Now, after the first date, he may change his mind during the "meet & greet" process.
But he asked because sooner or later, he wants sex (you have no obligation to comply).
And if he asks for a 2nd date, he ABSOLUTELY wants a sexual relationship. And again, you do not "owe" him anything.
But...if YOU know at the end of the first date that you don't want the guy, it's kind of rude to accept a 2nd date just to hack a free meal (not saying you do this, but I am sure there are female who do).

 

[ardour]

Never mind.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Maybe it’s controversial to say, but wanting to be put on pedestal means having to deal with a few arseholes, since you've basically discounted the entire idea of genuine connection that doesn't involve a power dynamic.

You guys just want permission to be mean, if you think a meal means you own someone then just get an escort and stop making excuses for men who treat women badly

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Again, I totally get it and completely agree that you owes him nothing. (Other than being relatively polite on the date as long as he does the same).

My point is simply that if a guy asks you on a date, he is 100% 10/10 doing it because he eventually wants to have a sexual relationship.
Now, after the first date, he may change his mind during the "meet & greet" process.
But he asked because sooner or later, he wants sex (you have no obligation to comply).
And if he asks for a 2nd date, he ABSOLUTELY wants a sexual relationship. And again, you do not "owe" him anything.
But...if YOU know at the end of the first date that you don't want the guy, it's kind of rude to accept a 2nd date just to hack a free meal (not saying you do this, but I am sure there are female who do).

I agree I dont think people should be using people for free meals or cheap thrills