Men - do you feel yourself becoming an 'incel'?

[HellsLittleAngel]

I don't believe anyone's an incel on earth. I feel there's someone for everyone, and like Callie said, people are just picky. But, don't forget, you're choosing to be an incel.

 

[Ace Face]

I don't believe anyone's an incel on earth. I feel there's someone for everyone, and like Callie said, people are just picky. But, don't forget, you're choosing to be an incel.

What the hell is a incel?

 

[HellsLittleAngel]

What the hell is a incel?

I know, all these new words just aren't working out for me, it's claiming that it's a member of a community who feels they're never attractive enough sexually, or something of that nature. Ridiculous. Some people think that's the end of the world.

 

[Ace Face]

I know, all these new words just aren't working out for me, it's claiming that it's a member of a community who feels they're never attractive enough sexually, or something of that nature. Ridiculous. Some people think that's the end of the world.

Well I'm not one then

 

[HellsLittleAngel]

Well I'm not one then

I know, and as a woman, even though it's a question for a man, I'm not one of them either.

 

[0mgofhappiness]

You know, I've been thinking about this... in a way you did get your slice of the American Dream, not the one that is advertised to innocent fools, but the only American Dream that there really is, which is making pools of money and being able to buy anything (or almost anything) that money can buy. That's what America really is about, after all: making money. Trump is like the embodiment of this. He is the American man par excellence. Everybody is just so concerned with making money and feeding their souls into the cogwheels of the system there's barely any time for anything else. This is why I say that a fairer and more egalitarian society is not just the solution to the people's economic grievances, but to a whole plethora of problems.

Which leads us to the problem of the conservative-reactionary utopia of establishing some kind of fascistoid, possibly militaresque dictatorship and enforcing traditional morals and behaviour onto the people. That just doesn't work. I know it doesn't because we've had this in the 80s and it didn't work, it just generated resented people and once the regime was weakened, in this case due to the inevitable global economic crisis that sooner or later strikes a highly globalized world, the resented people came out to the streets and demanded the end of the regime. In the end, the regime really ended. And how is this utopia even supposed to come about, in the first place? A bunch of sexually frustrated men will take up arms, do a coup and force all the women to be married and stay at home, lose their voting rights etc.? That's not how history works. The cogwheels of history only move foward, they might seem to be moving backwards at some points in time, but the fact is that they only move foward.

When thinking about social problems and their solutions, we should take all of this into consideration. Otherwise it's just LARPing.

I have often wondered what Donald trump's real name is. He must be doing something right, also Putin. You could make a fantasy fiction novel from those names. Put in a trump load of old Donald about it even. Presidentially

 

[Hoarse Whisperer]

An incel is someone who is involuntarily celibate. It means they want to have sex but are unable. Usually this is because of confidence issues and how they dress/present themselves more than anything else. It can apply to men or women.

The more modern definition popularized on social media is men who can't get laid and hate women for it. This is popularized by subreddits like r/niceguys.

A lot of men find their situation frustrating- they want to be attractive enough but don't know how to reach that goal. A lot of them won't "settle for less" aka date someone that would date them because they don't match the beauty standards of others. A lot of women also do this. The irony is that there are millions of people walking around each other feeling too ugly to find someone so they essentially give up and withdraw into themselves. We often fall into this misconception that the opinions of others define who we are. If x amount of people rejected us we must be too fugly to meet anyone ever again! It destroys our confidence and creates a self-fulfilling prophecy of defeat before we even try.

 

[Unsigned]

I feel there's someone for everyone, and like Callie said, people are just picky.

There's picky and then there is reasonable.
Would you want to pair off with a Rosie O'Donnell lookalike?

 

[ardour]

There's picky and then there is reasonable.
Would you want to pair off with a Rosie O'Donnell lookalike?

Reasonable seems to change as you get older. 25 year-olds can date whoever they want on the basis of attraction and we just accept that's normal and healthy for them. Past 40 though, it's like you're expected to somehow have evolved beyond that, as if you and your potential partner were like two genderless beings relating on a purely intellectual/emotional level.

So yes if you can't find Rosie O'Donnell appealing (or the male equivalent for straight women, I guess that would be Tom Arnold or any other out of shape schlummy dude), you're a giant POS who needs to "do better" according the middle aged moral consensus.

It's like the need for physical attraction is some kind of taboo. Fine then. I'd rather be alone.

 

[TheRealCallie]

There's picky and then there's so picky only 100 people in the world would meet your expectations......

 

[ardour]

There's picky and then there's so picky only 100 people in the world would meet your expectations......

Imagine you got to your forties without one iota of experience, only to find that now your socially acceptable dating pool consists of men who look like Tim Taylor from Home Improvement. (Except probably in far worse physical shape, divorced and with a ton of relationship baggage stretching back decades.) Then people called you picky, creepy, or delusional for not finding this appealing.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Imagine you got to your forties without one iota of experience, only to find that now your socially acceptable dating pool consists of men who look like Tim Taylor from Home Improvement. (Except probably in far worse physical shape, divorced and with a ton of relationship baggage stretching back decades.) Then people called you picky, creepy, or delusional for not finding this appealing.

See, I'm kind of calling bs on this because unless you were living under a rock, you can't say you don't have experience. Okay, fine, you maybe not have actual psychical experience with a girl, but you know how it's done. You've seen it done, you've possibly done it yourself with tools. So no, I'm sorry, you DO have experience with sex. Just solo sex. So while okay fine, you're a virgin, you're not exactly clueless.

I don't think Tim Taylor is all that unappealing. Sure, there are better looking guys out there, but I'm sorry, looks don't make the man for me, their actions, personality and words do. A guy doesn't have to be remarkably fit or experienced or good looking for me to find him attractive.

I'd say a lot of your problem is that you refuse to stop living in the past. You are so hell bent on living your 20's that you can't focus or see anything else. Yeah, fine you had some **** in that part of your life and you didn't get to go sow your wild oats. That's also not the end all be all of life. You didn't miss much. Although, I could be wrong, I was in an abusive marriage for my 20's. But, I was having sex, so it's all good, right? Who cares that I missed out, I got sex! It's all a matter of perspective and yours, no offense, kind of sucks.

 

[ardour]

See, I'm kind of calling bs on this because unless you were living under a rock, you can't say you don't have experience. Okay, fine, you maybe not have actual psychical experience with a girl, but you know how it's done. You've seen it done, you've possibly done it yourself with tools. So no, I'm sorry, you DO have experience with sex. Just solo sex. So while okay fine, you're a virgin, you're not exactly clueless.

Don't be disingenuous. Relevant relationship experience, not just existing in society as time passes.

I don't think Tim Taylor is all that unappealing. Sure, there are better looking guys out there, but I'm sorry, looks don't make the man for me, their actions, personality and words do. A guy doesn't have to be remarkably fit or experienced or good looking for me to find him attractive.

Good for you. I can't find Jill Taylor appealing no matter how great of a person she may be. So either you're a better person, have the benefit of experience, or maybe men and women are different. Whatever. Can't change it.

I'd say a lot of your problem is that you refuse to stop living in the past. You are so hell bent on living your 20's that you can't focus or see anything else. Yeah, fine you had some **** in that part of your life and you didn't get to go sow your wild oats. That's also not the end all be all of life. You didn't miss much. Although, I could be wrong, I was in an abusive marriage for my 20's. But, I was having sex, so it's all good, right? Who cares that I missed out, I got sex! It's all a matter of perspective and yours, no offense, kind of sucks.

It's not about wild oats, casual hookups, or any of that. Nobody imagines their first partner being a middle aged person. It's so outside of normal it requires no explanation.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Most people out there suck. Let's just get that out of the way. If you figure out what your ideal mate is and then narrow that down to someone you could actually reasonably be happy with, then narrow that down to people that exist in the few places you spend most of your life... it's tough gettin' out there unless you're social with hobbies.

The best advice I give younger guys and would give younger me is to stop caring what people think about you. Be the best and cleanest version of yourself that you can manage and live a life that makes you happy. Put yourself out there to date people that you're attracted to. And above all else: consider the date a two-way interviewing process in which they need to also impress you. Don't go into it thinking that they're so far above you and you're having to impress them. If they're the one you will live comfortably with, the natural comfort and chemistry should be there.

And if that fails, buy a really fuzzy sock and call it a day.

It's hard, as much as I have ideas of the type of person that would suit me best, I'm doing my best to not 'narrow' my field too much and to keep my options open. The only thing that I'm incredibly firm on is someone who does not have children.

I don't believe anyone's an incel on earth. I feel there's someone for everyone, and like Callie said, people are just picky. But, don't forget, you're choosing to be an incel.

By the definition of "involuntary celibate", then yes, I am, against my wishes, an incel. I don't go hating on women, but I am involuntarily celibate.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

I'd say a lot of your problem is that you refuse to stop living in the past. You are so hell bent on living your 20's that you can't focus or see anything else. Yeah, fine you had some **** in that part of your life and you didn't get to go sow your wild oats. That's also not the end all be all of life. You didn't miss much. Although, I could be wrong, I was in an abusive marriage for my 20's. But, I was having sex, so it's all good, right? Who cares that I missed out, I got sex! It's all a matter of perspective and yours, no offense, kind of sucks.

I would say this part applies to me. I just want those wild years in my 20s that everyone else got; you meet someone, date for a while, go on weekends away with no issues, go to the beach at 10PM on a Wednesday just because you feel like it, you break up and you start again. I want that, I have no desire to go from zero to 2.5 kids and a mortgage.

I want those years of playing the field, finding out what I'm like in a relationship, what a good one feels like, what a bad one feels like, how things work, and THEN I'm open to the idea of settling down long term. People assume I want the next person I lock lips with to be the love of my life, is frustratingly false.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Don't be disingenuous. Relevant relationship experience, not just existing in society as time passes.

Good for you. I can't find Jill Taylor appealing no matter how great of a person she may be. So either you're a better person, have the benefit of experience, or maybe men and women are different. Whatever. Can't change it.

It's not about wild oats, casual hookups, or any of that. Nobody imagines their first partner being a middle aged person. It's so outside of normal it requires no explanation.

I could be thinking of someone else here, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you either been on dates or have been asked out? That's experience. Just because you go on a date doesn't mean you're getting married or even rolling in the hay. It just two people getting to know each other better for a few hours.

I can honestly say that until a few years ago, I don't think I'd ever been on an actual date. And until a few years ago, I'd only had sex with one person. Should I be ashamed of that or is it okay since I got laid? Should I be ashamed that I don't have actual experience with dates or is it okay since I was married? Where exactly is the line drawn?

That whole "what's your idea of the perfect date?"thing....I have no damn idea how to answer that because I have nothing to reference it to. I'm not ashamed of that. It's my life and people can either take it or not. If the answer is not, why the hell would I want them in my life to begin with?

 

[ardour]

I would say this part applies to me. I just want those wild years in my 20s that everyone else got; you meet someone, date for a while, go on weekends away with no issues, go to the beach at 10PM on a Wednesday just because you feel like it, you break up and you start again. I want that, I have no desire to go from zero to 2.5 kids and a mortgage..

If your entire focus was always having kids, then bypassing all the earlier adult stuff might be okay. But with most people, having a family is at the end stage of a whole string of other younger adult experiences.

 

[ardour]

I could be thinking of someone else here, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you either been on dates or have been asked out? That's experience. Just because you go on a date doesn't mean you're getting married or even rolling in the hay. It just two people getting to know each other better for a few hours.

One friend of a friend in her mid 40s and almost certainly an alcoholic, tried to force drinks down me for hours then get me to stay the night at hers. One date with a woman in her early thirties. As soon as I stupidly mentioned not having had a serious relationship before, she started looking at me like I was something she stepped in and that was that.

I'm talking about actually being in a relationship and all the life skills and adjustments that go with that.

 

[Unsigned]

she started looking at me like I was something she stepped in

I know that look.
I've gotten it from escorts whom I've felt comfortable enough with to tell that I've only seen escorts...

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

If your entire focus was always having kids, then bypassing all the earlier adult stuff might be okay. But with most people, having a family is at the end stage of a whole string of other younger adult experiences.

It was always very hard to think that far ahead.

When you're still struggling to find people who can stomach the thought of being with you for 24hrs, it's almost impossible to be thinking about children or marriage etc. If I'd had relationships growing up, and one or two had been serious and long-term enough, it's a conversation I'd have had to have, but it's just never been a concern for me. So no, no focus on having kids.