Questions for the Men

[ewomack]

I learned the hard way not to have physical preferences or to judge people by their looks based upon such and such color, length, etc. None of it really matters in the end. It's all useless abstractions. Attraction all by itself doesn't get anyone anything. It took me a while to realize that finding a random woman on the street attractive means absolutely nothing and has nothing to do with my life. If I'm never going to talk to her, know her, spend time with her, etc., then it's completely irrelevant whether I find her attractive. Now I don't even notice and I don't waste time "checking out" women who I will never know because I finally realized that it's an utter waste of time. I think men are socialized to "check out" women and do so to show or prove their "manhood." I'm totally done with that nonsense. I have far better things to do.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I learned the hard way not to have physical preferences or to judge people by their looks based upon such and such color, length, etc. None of it really matters in the end. It's all useless abstractions. Attraction all by itself doesn't get anyone anything. It took me a while to realize that finding a random woman on the street attractive means absolutely nothing and has nothing to do with my life. If I'm never going to talk to her, know her, spend time with her, etc., then it's completely irrelevant whether I find her attractive. Now I don't even notice and I don't waste time "checking out" women who I will never know because I finally realized that it's an utter waste of time. I think men are socialized to "check out" women and do so to show or prove their "manhood." I'm totally done with that nonsense. I have far better things to do.

Yep. After a lifetime of being obsessed with "the hot girls", I've been realizing this a lot, this past year or so.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I think men are socialized to "check out" women and do so to show or prove their "manhood." I'm totally done with that nonsense. I have far better things to do.

Wow, do you really think this is the case? This is such an interesting perspective.

Yep. After a lifetime of being obsessed with "the hot girls", I've been realizing this a lot, this past year or so.

Welcome back mr ska fish!! I'm so interested in the evolution of attraction, why do you think that there was an obsession with the uhm.. "hot girls"... what are you obsessed with now, the not so hot?

 

[TheSkaFish]

Welcome back mr ska fish!! I'm so interested in the evolution of attraction, why do you think that there was an obsession with the uhm.. "hot girls"... what are you obsessed with now, the not so hot?

Thanks, I'm back.

To answer your questions, why was I obsessed with "the hot girls"? Well for one thing, looks/sexuality. I thought I wanted to experience a sexual encounter with someone that had an intense physical appeal because I thought it would be thrilling. Also exclusivity...like owning an exotic car or something like that. Kind of like a "forbidden fruit" thing I guess. And I wanted to prove that I was good enough.

What am I obsessed with now, though? At the risk of sounding corny, I'm obsessed with connection. Something real. A meaningful life experience, actually making a life with someone, cause I'm not getting any younger and I don't want to waste my life. Conversations, spending time with someone, actual interest in the person, and real feelings. Being able to make a connection with someone I actually like and care about, who makes me feel good by the way they are, and to be around them. As for looks, they are whatever they happen to be. But I'm not all that interested in starting to notice someone just from their looks alone, anymore.

It's not that I got my wish and I experienced being with a hot girl and it didn't live up to what I thought it would be. I still haven't dated or slept with anyone. It's just that somewhere along the line, I realized that hotness alone, is not really all that and a bag of chips. I used to think you started with physical desire, and everything else like feelings and all that, came from there. But now I think it's the reverse, at least for me anyway. You start with how the person makes you feel, and then physical desire can come from that, where you might not have seen it right away.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Thanks, I'm back.

To answer your questions, why was I obsessed with "the hot girls"? Well for one thing, looks/sexuality. I thought I wanted to experience a sexual encounter with someone that had an intense physical appeal because I thought it would be thrilling. Also exclusivity...like owning an exotic car or something like that. Kind of like a "forbidden fruit" thing I guess. And I wanted to prove that I was good enough.

What am I obsessed with now, though? At the risk of sounding corny, I'm obsessed with connection. Something real. A meaningful life experience, actually making a life with someone, cause I'm not getting any younger and I don't want to waste my life. Conversations, spending time with someone, actual interest in the person, and real feelings. Being able to make a connection with someone I actually like and care about, who makes me feel good by the way they are, and to be around them. As for looks, they are whatever they happen to be. But I'm not all that interested in starting to notice someone just from their looks alone, anymore.

It's not that I got my wish and I experienced being with a hot girl and it didn't live up to what I thought it would be. I still haven't dated or slept with anyone. It's just that somewhere along the line, I realized that hotness alone, is not really all that and a bag of chips. I used to think you started with physical desire, and everything else like feelings and all that, came from there. But now I think it's the reverse, at least for me anyway. You start with how the person makes you feel, and then physical desire can come from that, where you might not have seen it right away.

This is so interesting, so did you used to think it would confirm your self worth if a "hot girl" would give you a chance. Thats a lot to base on someone else, I think that makes sense though.

I love the obsessed with connections idea, I think thats a really healthy stand point, I just wonder though, don't you want someone that completes your circle of desires, someone who can give you the connection and the physical thrill? Do you think you can adapt your taste over time? Do you think someone out there is impossible to find? or so hard to find that you would rather search for the connection alone, as thats more important.

Thing is, I think if theres no physical desire at first what would make you wanna get to know that person? How would you pick? Wouldn't it always boil down to who was more visually appealing in the first instance of getting to know them?

 

[ardour]

I learned the hard way not to have physical preferences or to judge people by their looks based upon such and such color, length, etc. None of it really matters in the end. It's all useless abstractions. Attraction all by itself doesn't get anyone anything. It took me a while to realize that finding a random woman on the street attractive means absolutely nothing and has nothing to do with my life. If I'm never going to talk to her, know her, spend time with her, etc., then it's completely irrelevant whether I find her attractive. Now I don't even notice and I don't waste time "checking out" women who I will never know because I finally realized that it's an utter waste of time. I think men are socialized to "check out" women and do so to show or prove their "manhood." I'm totally done with that nonsense. I have far better things to do.

A more interesting question would be whether you could get involved with someone you felt zero physical attraction towards (as in none at all).

Because while I understand the frustration and futility of fantasizing about women who you will never speak to, I still couldn't imagine that.

 

[TheRealCallie]

A more interesting question would be whether you could get involved with someone you felt zero physical attraction towards (as in none at all).

Because while I understand the frustration and futility of fantasizing about women who you will never speak to, I still couldn't imagine that.

You assume that physical attraction is always instant. It's not, sometimes it comes later, after you get to know the person.

 

[ardour]

You assume that physical attraction is always instant. It's not, sometimes it comes later, after you get to know the person.

I'd argue most men aren't built like that and if you took the idea to its end point then gender shouldn't matter either (but obviously it does)

Say you had a (very) hypothetical situation of two women who were interested, one more attractive than the other, but the other more compatible personality wise, I'd be inclined to ask out the 'less attractive' person... but I'd still have to feel some sexual attraction to her, as a bare minimum.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Men aren't built like that, and if you took that idea it's end point then gender shouldn't matter either.

Say you had a (very) hypothetical situation of two women who were interested, one more attractive than the other, but the other more compatible personality wise, I'd be inclined to ask out the 'less attractive' person... but I'd still have to feel some sexual attraction to her, as a bare minimum.

Okay and just getting to know a person is some taboo thing? You can't just TALK to people and hang out until you find out if you develop an attraction to her based on who she is as a person and not merely for what she looks like?

You seem to have a pattern of rarely giving any credence to things women say because it seems like you don't WANT to believe it.

 

[Finished]

I learned the hard way not to have physical preferences or to judge people by their looks based upon such and such color, length, etc. None of it really matters in the end. It's all useless abstractions. Attraction all by itself doesn't get anyone anything. It took me a while to realize that finding a random woman on the street attractive means absolutely nothing and has nothing to do with my life. If I'm never going to talk to her, know her, spend time with her, etc., then it's completely irrelevant whether I find her attractive. Now I don't even notice and I don't waste time "checking out" women who I will never know because I finally realized that it's an utter waste of time. I think men are socialized to "check out" women and do so to show or prove their "manhood." I'm totally done with that nonsense. I have far better things to do.

Hmmm. Not for me. I check out women because my hormones tell me to do so. It's a force. It's not all bad though. My hormones reward me later so it's a co-dependant thing. If it was completely up to me I wouldn't give one **** either way what anybody looks like. It's not like I'm going to interact with them ever.

 

[Finished]

A more interesting question would be whether you could get involved with someone you felt zero physical attraction towards (as in none at all).

Because while I understand the frustration and futility of fantasizing about women who you will never speak to, I still couldn't imagine that.

I cannot. I tried. I really wanted it to work out too.

 

[ewomack]

A more interesting question would be whether you could get involved with someone you felt zero physical attraction towards (as in none at all).

Because while I understand the frustration and futility of fantasizing about women who you will never speak to, I still couldn't imagine that.

I don't think that's a more interesting question because the answer is clearly no. I'm not advocating not being attracted to anyone, just not being attracted to anyone you would never have any chance of actually dating. There are plenty of attractive people out there, some of who will actually enter your life and some who won't. I don't bother with the ones that won't (i.e., someone walking on the sidewalk, a woman on a billboard, a woman in a magazine, a woman seen from afar, a woman I heard rumors about, etc.). I no longer find "beautiful abstractions" attractive because they're just a waste of time. It's not even worth getting frustrated over. But a woman who I actually talk to, who asks me to lunch, or who I find easy to talk to, that's an entirely different story. That's real.

 

[Finished]

You assume that physical attraction is always instant. It's not, sometimes it comes later, after you get to know the person.

It definitely helps. But, it can't turn a 2 into a six though. If that were the case Viagra wouldn't be so hugely popular.

 

[ewomack]

Hmmm. Not for me. I check out women because my hormones tell me to do so. It's a force. It's not all bad though. My hormones reward me later so it's a co-dependant thing. If it was completely up to me I wouldn't give one **** either way what anybody looks like. It's not like I'm going to interact with them ever.

I think you have more control over it than you think. But if it works for you, that's absolutely fine. I'm not going to tell anyone how to live.

 

[ardour]

Okay and just getting to know a person is some taboo thing? You can't just TALK to people and hang out until you find out if you develop an attraction to her based on who she is as a person and not merely for what she looks like?

You seem to have a pattern of rarely giving any credence to things women say because it seems like you don't WANT to believe it.

Taboo? You're just arguing for the sake of it again. Some physical attraction is a minimum prerequisite before a deeper romantic connection IMO. I didn't mean that needs to be the dominant factor.

I'm never going to be attracted to my male friends no matter how much I like them.

 

[Finished]

I don't think that's a more interesting question because the answer is clearly no. I'm not advocating not being attracted to anyone, just not being attracted to anyone you would never have any chance of actually dating. There are plenty of attractive people out there, some of who will actually enter your life and some who won't. I don't bother with the ones that won't (i.e., someone walking on the sidewalk, a woman on a billboard, a woman in a magazine, a woman seen from afar, a woman I heard rumors about, etc.). I no longer find "beautiful abstractions" attractive because they're just a waste of time. It's not even worth getting frustrated over.

So, now take it one step further. What if you are not attracted to the only women that find you attractive? When that happens then you can understand the problem. It's not a blame game or a choice. Personally I would love to be attracted to all the 2's and below. I would have all kinds of women in my life.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Taboo? You're just arguing for the sake of it again. Some physical attraction is a minimum prerequisite before a deeper romantic connection IMO. I didn't mean that needs to be the dominant factor.

I'm never going to be attracted to my male friends no matter how much I like them.

No, YOU are arguing just for the sake of it, I'm entirely serious. And how exactly do you know that you aren't just being a shallow guy and refuse to even acknowledge any attraction because she's not what you THINK you want. How exactly do you know that your "soulmate" isn't the opposite of what you think you want. Or people your own age that have wrinkles or a blonde black woman who has crow's feet?
For someone who complains about having little to no experience, you sure do seem to know everything. How exactly does that work?

 

[Finished]

I think you have more control over it than you think. But if it works for you, that's absolutely fine. I'm not going to tell anyone how to live.

I would like not to have any of the *** hormones going any more to be honest. I had checked into that. But, unfortunately our bodies need them for other things like our muscles. So, maybe I am weaker then you. Or maybe my hormones are stronger. But, if you can help me to out think my hormones that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ardour]

I don't think that's a more interesting question because the answer is clearly no. I'm not advocating not being attracted to anyone, just not being attracted to anyone you would never have any chance of actually dating. There are plenty of attractive people out there, some of who will actually enter your life and some who won't. I don't bother with the ones that won't (i.e., someone walking on the sidewalk, a woman on a billboard, a woman in a magazine, a woman seen from afar, a woman I heard rumors about, etc.). I no longer find "beautiful abstractions" attractive because they're just a waste of time. It's not even worth getting frustrated over. But a woman who I actually talk to, who asks me to lunch, or who I find easy to talk to, that's an entirely different story. That's real.

You're always going to notice women regardless. And some people need the fantasy because that's literally all there is for them.

 

[Finished]

No, YOU are arguing just for the sake of it, I'm entirely serious. And how exactly do you know that you aren't just being a shallow guy and refuse to even acknowledge any attraction because she's not what you THINK you want. How exactly do you know that your "soulmate" isn't the opposite of what you think you want. Or people your own age that have wrinkles or a blonde black woman who has crow's feet?
For someone who complains about having little to no experience, you sure do seem to know everything. How exactly does that work?

Why is it so hard for you to think that other people can have different senses about attraction? I still find women my own age attractive. But, Ardour doesn't. I'm sure he will find some women attractive that I do not. It's not just what we think is pretty. I find many women pretty. Just like I'm sure you find many men handsome. But, you aren't going to pursue anything with them because there's a certain threshold. It's a matter of what turns us on. AKA our hormones, past experiences, genetics, our programming. If we could reprogram ourselves that would be fantastic.

To put it simply if you put what my brain tells me I like in front of me I will feel it in my pants. If you but some when not quite what my brain wants, but she is super nice, my pants wont budge. Sure, I can get to know her better. And she will definitely be more attractive to me. This has happened many times to me. Thank goodness. But, maybe the amount of increase attraction is different for different people and for the different sexes. The amount of increase I get is only about 2 levels on the ten scale.