Questions for the Men

[CenotaphGirl]

Yeah I guess you could say that. Growing up I thought it would make me a "winner", a guy who gets what he wants.

Half of it was wanting to get the hottest woman possible, for the physical thrills, and also because I guess I subconsciously absorbed the idea from society that the guy that gets the hottest girl "wins".

And the other half was wanting to defy what I felt were the "limits" that I felt the "cool kids" placed on me. I wanted to date a hot girl and be like, you *******s can't keep me down.

But that's the thing, what I wanted changed, the more I understood myself, and the more I understood that it wasn't about some kind of social competition, or some kind of bucket list experience, but about connecting with another person that you find interesting and care about.



It took a while getting to that point though, thinking it through. Eventually it just clicked. I noticed that a lot of the traditionally "hot" women have interests and values and personalities that don't match mine. I wouldn't feel comfortable, like I could "be myself" with them, just like I felt around the "cool kids" growing up. And I understood that it doesn't matter how hot a woman is if I can't talk to her because we have nothing to talk about, or if I don't have anything that I want to ask her, if there isn't anything about her that makes me want to get to know her as a person. Or if I don't see myself caring about her as a person.

And I wasn't angry about it either, because it wasn't about giving up, or "being realistic"/"settling"/"staying in my league" or anything like that. When I was a kid, I thought I had to just wait for the traditionally attractive girls to realize that "the cool guys" were jerks, but in time I realized that they weren't going to change, it was who they really were, and I was waiting for nothing, and it didn't matter anyway because they wouldn't have made me happy because we're just not alike. I remembered times when I'd tried to talk to women that I really shouldn't have started talking to because we didn't have enough in common and didn't have similar enough personalities/temperaments/natures or values, and looking back, the conversations weren't even that interesting, weren't even that much fun. It would have saved me a lot of grief to realize this sooner. I wasted a lot of time and energy that I could have been happier, getting upset over nothing I would have been that happy with anyway. That's what I really regret.

I really wish I'd never really given any thought to the whole "cool" world, just thought "eh, it's not for me" and just did my own thing. I wonder who I would have been if I never let that and everything else bother me.

I think that at this point, I've seen just about all the different personality types out there. And I think your last sentence nails it - it would be so hard to find absolutely everything that I'd want in one person, in fact I don't even think such a person exists anymore. Nowadays I'd just rather have the connection, since that's what counts.



What would make me want to get to know the person? Common interests. Showing me an interesting inner world with the thoughts they come up with, makes me curious, makes me feel like they're unique. Them saying or doing something endearing, something that makes me care about them.

I think it's like others have said - physical desire can happen later, the more you like a person and see their good qualities. It's happened to me a few times now.

I like this.. I understand your stance completely, you left nothing out, I feel like this is the realest answer I got to my crazy question. I think you understand that my desire to understand attraction is not about trying to increase the importance of it, only simply to understand it.

There is obviously something that some women have that puts them into the "hot category", there is the box I've been trying to open, but it gets shrouded by... "being hot doesn't matter" rather than... what's in the box? The reason for the interest in the box is because in my reality the contents of whats hot or whats not has a dictation... a dictation on what you can expect from society as a whole.

So please allow me to run something more controversial by you...

I think where men and women start to misunderstand each other is around the "attraction dictation",
Men are likely to accept when they have minimal attraction to offer therefore would jump through extra hoops to secure a mate. Men are so much more likely to do this, I have a game I play with my brother, I ask him would he do some ridiculous task if 'hot woman' would be his girlfriend. He says yes 99.9% of the time unless it involves something that questions his "sexuality"...

Women are less likely to accept that they have minimal attraction, simply because, men do not treat us this way. Confidence and self-esteem is more pushed towards women...The most "ugly" woman vs "ugly" man on a dating site would have a very different experience... this is proven... unless the man can compensate in some other way, the uglier the guy the more pics he has with luxury goods on his profile... So women can know that they are no super model however, they also know, they have what it takes to attract a mate with little to no effort.

Is this difference true in your opinion? Do you think most men treat a woman they find more attractive better than they treat a woman they do not find attractive? I hear things like oh 50/50 and blah blah, truth is most men are not implying this is for all women, just the "Average and below" looking women...

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Lol... i'm starting to see why you guys just say "no preference" now...
Very interesting, the thing I dont understand about the whole concept is...

Can we really control what we find attractive? I know I cant... instead of calling a spade a spade,
Or attractive attractive, it feels like you label women you find attractive as the "no chance women"...
Regardless of not admitting it, they are the hot ones, the ones that men are either conditioned to want or biologically want who knows...

I think there is a level of group think in school days, deffo my school had that, if you were not blonde, blue eyes apple pie..aka white.. you were nothing... I changed schools years later, different area, and if you were not "exotic" and "mixed" you were nothing... obviously worked out well for me. Boys that liked me in my previous school would only like me in private, they never told anyone, still gives me a complex today, I make men jump through public complex hoops to get a potential chance with me, makes me feel better about myself lol. I think thats why I love grand gestures, because I was the secret crush.

As I got older, had large groups of girlfriends I noticed something, we were all approached, not equal amounts, but all of us, none were ignored. I cant say thats a reality for men... however, I never knew that. I've been on the search to investigate the power of attraction, and what it means to different people.

I like that people express their differences, if only we could learn to do that without thinking we are arguing and telling others how to think (that wasn't for you ewomack, you're as civil as they come lol)

We can't entirely control what we're attracted to, no.
HOWEVER, the part that most people fail to realize is that even though physicality is a factor, the Laws Of Attraction themselves, are actually all entirely mental.

This is pretty easy to prove for anybody who's ever experienced suddenly finding their ex unattractive or less attractive shortly after a breakup. The body hasn't changed that much, but something else about them seems to have that puts you off about them.

Simultaneously, that's also why if it's been a while and there's still a mutual physical attraction why people will go back and hook up with their exes even though they don't want anything else from them.--THAT'S why. The Attraction Is Mental. A Visual Experience is a Mental Experience, people tend to forget that pretty easily. Your eyes are in your head, aren't they?

Men do get approached less often than women, that's true. Part of the problem that I have with being prone to psychosis is that I can't discern from when I'm being approached to when it's all in my head and I'm just misconstruing the underlying signals. Women aren't usually direct, either, which doesn't help. That's part of the problem with having hallucinations. So even though I have a decent amount of confidence girls are like "why are you single?" And I'm kinda like: "Because, I'm a crazy person..."

Group Thinking comes from Media Manipulation and something that's commonly called The Cult Of Ignorance. The idea is that Media Outlets, be they film, music, or news, set a tone that it isn't a popular thing to be smart. And because humans are social creatures, we consume this Media and simply blindly follow through listening to what it tells us. In the old days before the rise of the internet, Media was federally regulated. The pros and cons of that were that it was still manipulative, however at least it had context. With the rise of the internet, it has lost its collective context. And so the younger generation of people, those in their late teens, early 20's, who've never experienced life without the internet, literally do not know what Media with a collective context is like, that is a foreign concept to them. This is also the first time that this has happened since the development of the Printing Press between 1400 and 1500. ---So, roughly 500 years.

If you ever want to know how and why Group Thinking is a thing, go look up the history of Media Conglomerates. You'll notice a trend that as they cannibalize each other over time and there are less and less Media Conglomerates, there is equally less and less properly individual thought and developmental critical thinking among people. And this again, is because we consume Media as a society.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

We can't entirely control what we're attracted to, no.
HOWEVER, the part that most people fail to realize is that even though physicality is a factor, the Laws Of Attraction themselves, are actually all entirely mental.

This is pretty easy to prove for anybody who's ever experienced suddenly finding their ex unattractive or less attractive shortly after a breakup. The body hasn't changed that much, but something else about them seems to have that puts you off about them.

Simultaneously, that's also why if it's been a while and there's still a mutual physical attraction why people will go back and hook up with their exes even though they don't want anything else from them.--THAT'S why. The Attraction Is Mental. A Visual Experience is a Mental Experience, people tend to forget that pretty easily. Your eyes are in your head, aren't they?

Men do get approached less often than women, that's true. Part of the problem that I have with being prone to psychosis is that I can't discern from when I'm being approached to when it's all in my head and I'm just misconstruing the underlying signals. Women aren't usually direct, either, which doesn't help. That's part of the problem with having hallucinations. So even though I have a decent amount of confidence girls are like "why are you single?" And I'm kinda like: "Because, I'm a crazy person..."

Group Thinking comes from Media Manipulation and something that's commonly called The Cult Of Ignorance. The idea is that Media Outlets, be they film, music, or news, set a tone that it isn't a popular thing to be smart. And because humans are social creatures, we consume this Media and simply blindly follow through listening to what it tells us. In the old days before the rise of the internet, Media was federally regulated. The pros and cons of that were that it was still manipulative, however at least it had context. With the rise of the internet, it has lost its collective context. And so the younger generation of people, those in their late teens, early 20's, who've never experienced life without the internet, literally do not know what Media with a collective context is like, that is a foreign concept to them. This is also the first time that this has happened since the development of the Printing Press between 1400 and 1500. ---So, roughly 500 years.

If you ever want to know how and why Group Thinking is a thing, go look up the history of Media Conglomerates. You'll notice a trend that as they cannibalize each other over time and there are less and less Media Conglomerates, there is equally less and less properly individual thought and developmental critical thinking among people. And this again, is because we consume Media as a society.

Truth is this, attraction is mental, sometimes acting unattainable increases the attraction a man has, thats why some men love the chase, to get their way removes the idea that you're unattainable and they find themselves with little interest.

But, what I truly want to understand is... are men trying to convince me that they are attracted to everything, or that they can learn to be attracted to everything?

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Truth is this, attraction is mental, sometimes acting unattainable increases the attraction a man has, thats why some men love the chase, to get their way removes the idea that you're unattainable and they find themselves with little interest.

But, what I truly want to understand is... are men trying to convince me that they are attracted to everything, or that they can learn to be attracted to everything?

Men can be attracted to everything.
It's on a sliding scale.
Case and point, there's this girl I work with that both me and another co-worker think is cute, but when she talks that kills it because she's kind of not a good person. The difference between men and women, is that generally a woman will try to work with that situation, and generally a man will see that situation and decide that if it's a problem now it'll just continue to be a problem later as well and effectively it isn't worth the effort. Mansplaining it metaphorically (because I really don't know how else to put it at 4:30 A.M.), it's kind of the difference between knowing how much gas is in your car and not knowing how much gas is in your car. Yeah you can probably get to the supermarket and back, but there's still gonna be those people who are like "I know my car" and hop on the freeway and try to leave town anyways. Some people think: "I'll get there and it'll be fine" while others think "If I break down, it's just going to cost me extra money to get towed."

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Men can be attracted to everything.
It's on a sliding scale.
Case and point, there's this girl I work with that both me and another co-worker think is cute, but when she talks that kills it because she's kind of not a good person. The difference between men and women, is that generally a woman will try to work with that situation, and generally a man will see that situation and decide that if it's a problem now it'll just continue to be a problem later as well and effectively it isn't worth the effort. Mansplaining it metaphorically (because I really don't know how else to put it at 4:30 A.M.), it's kind of the difference between knowing how much gas is in your car and not knowing how much gas is in your car. Yeah you can probably get to the supermarket and back, but there's still gonna be those people who are like "I know my car" and hop on the freeway and try to leave town anyways. Some people think: "I'll get there and it'll be fine" while others think "If I break down, it's just going to cost me extra money to get towed."

Interesting, to me anyway lol I have no idea what mansplaining is, and honestly I dont care to know, everything men do is somehow wrong these days, then poor ladies like me have to sit around and wonder... why men do not want to be men anymore....

I think attraction, the initial attraction, is important to understand, what attracted you in the first place, before you knew anything else, the reason being is because today... with tinder and online dating...men being some sort of public enemy... the initial gaze or a profile photo is all we really have to go on. You aren't allowed to find women in the workplace, on the bus, at the gym or walking home. There is no real opportunity to get to know someone first.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Interesting, to me anyway lol I have no idea what mansplaining is, and honestly I dont care to know, everything men do is somehow wrong these days, then poor ladies like me have to sit around and wonder... why men do not want to be men anymore....

I think attraction, the initial attraction, is important to understand, what attracted you in the first place, before you knew anything else, the reason being is because today... with tinder and online dating...men being some sort of public enemy... the initial gaze or a profile photo is all we really have to go on. You aren't allowed to find women in the workplace, on the bus, at the gym or walking home. There is no real opportunity to get to know someone first.

What exactly constitutes the definition of "a real man?"
There are only so many hours in a day, so many days in a year, and we're getting older, not younger, and time is factually only relativistic.
The hatred for men in the public eye is only popular because the Media sources that be deemed it so. There is no clear definition of what constitutes a "real man" anymore than there is a clear definition of "what is the value of a woman to a man?"
These are questions without answers, and terms without definitions.
They're keywords, however. They are that.
Keywords are designed to be relative to peoples instincts.
It is easy to accept something relative without questioning it.
People like to be in their feels, and so Media feeds off of that accordingly.
Life is at your doorstep, so since Feminism agrees with the narrative of women (literally being in the name of it), that's why it sells to women.
Just like Men's Rights agrees with the narrative of men (also in the name of it), so it sells to men.
This is the problem that we have.
People are not thinking for themselves and challenging the source information of their media before they consume it.

As far as meeting people goes:
If people aren't thinking for themselves, are they really worth meeting in the first place? And if they aren't worth meeting, why would they be worth changing your life for? Or even meeting up with?

 

[CenotaphGirl]

What exactly constitutes the definition of "a real man?"
There are only so many hours in a day, so many days in a year, and we're getting older, not younger, and time is factually only relativistic.
The hatred for men in the public eye is only popular because the Media sources that be deemed it so. There is no clear definition of what constitutes a "real man" anymore than there is a clear definition of "what is the value of a woman to a man?"
These are questions without answers, and terms without definitions.
They're keywords, however. They are that.
Keywords are designed to be relative to peoples instincts.
It is easy to accept something relative without questioning it.
People like to be in their feels, and so Media feeds off of that accordingly.
Life is at your doorstep, so since Feminism agrees with the narrative of women (literally being in the name of it), that's why it sells to women.
Just like Men's Rights agrees with the narrative of men (also in the name of it), so it sells to men.
This is the problem that we have.
People are not thinking for themselves and challenging the source information of their media before they consume it.

As far as meeting people goes:
If people aren't thinking for themselves, are they really worth meeting in the first place? And if they aren't worth meeting, why would they be worth changing your life for? Or even meeting up with?

No idea what a real man is either... lol I don't use language like that, I have never thought of there being one type of man. The value of a man to the majority of women is clear...it's proven, however we pretend the small amount of women who want a man to raise is the overwhelming voice. When its just not.

I think as long as love finds away theres a way back from the madness lol

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

No idea what a real man is either... lol I don't use language like that, I have never thought of there being one type of man. The value of a man to the majority of women is clear...it's proven, however we pretend the small amount of women who want a man to raise is the overwhelming voice. When its just not.

I think as long as love finds away theres a way back from the madness lol

I'm more inclined to just hang out at the finish line and wait for the rest of society to show up. That's the thing about circular logic, it's circular. So where you started will eventually be where you get back to.

What other people want, isn't really my concern outside of threads and questions like this. These aren't the kinds of things I think about unless I'm prompted to externally. That's part of why I like these kinds of threads, because my experience of them is more equated to someone doing a crossword puzzle book on a bus ride or in a waiting room than it is the gathering of empirical data with some deeper meaning.

Humans aren't terribly difficult to understand. We can be, but since shallowness is the new norm, it's actually pretty predictable and gets boring pretty fast to me.

 

[Finished]

I like that people express their differences, if only we could learn to do that without thinking we are arguing and telling others how to think (that wasn't for you ewomack, you're as civil as they come lol)

Well, at least for me, I try to open other peoples thinking to the possibility that the world is not the same for everybody. Telling someone to just try harder or not be picky is totally rejecting the other person. Many times its not that simple. It's like saying just stop being gay. Sure you can always find some people that can change or perhaps they were never actually that way to begin with and later realized it. But, for the most part people can't change their basic desires and needs. I would hope more people would try to understand that. However, most tend to still believe that everybody is similar to them with the same basic knowledge, skills, mental ability, etc, etc, etc as in why doesn't that homeless guy just get a job and work like the rest of us.

 

[Finished]

I think where men and women start to misunderstand each other is around the "attraction dictation",
Men are likely to accept when they have minimal attraction to offer therefore would jump through extra hoops to secure a mate. Men are so much more likely to do this, I have a game I play with my brother, I ask him would he do some ridiculous task if 'hot woman' would be his girlfriend. He says yes 99.9% of the time unless it involves something that questions his "sexuality"...

Wow! Your brother has less of a *** drive then I do. Ha! ha!

 

[Finished]

Personally, I've only ever needed intimacy and closeness with a woman. I can and do everything else myself. Sure, I like to eat tastey food. But, I cook just fine. I really don't care about any skills that a woman has. They could have zero skills and that would be fine with me as long as they didn't cause me problems. So, maybe that's why my brain focuses more on looks then others.

 

[ewomack]

Geeze...******* thesis essay for answers. They just drag on...try concise. It's not difficult. I guess I'll get a very long, very extended response. Or, a nice and clear **** you. Hoping for the latterm

You'll get neither. You're entitled to your opinion, that's fine. If you don't want to read long posts then don't read them. It looks like other people read the post and that's fine for them as well. Sometimes a concise email doesn't cover everything adequately. The message was as short as I needed it to be (I could have gone on). If you don't want to read long posts, just ignore them. I've seen even longer messages than that posted on this forum without any fuss.

 

[ewomack]

Well, at least for me, I try to open other peoples thinking to the possibility that the world is not the same for everybody. Telling someone to just try harder or not be picky is totally rejecting the other person. Many times its not that simple. It's like saying just stop being gay. Sure you can always find some people that can change or perhaps they were never actually that way to begin with and later realized it. But, for the most part people can't change their basic desires and needs. I would hope more people would try to understand that. However, most tend to still believe that everybody is similar to them with the same basic knowledge, skills, mental ability, etc, etc, etc as in why doesn't that homeless guy just get a job and work like the rest of us.

You completely misunderstood what I was getting at. I'm not going to try to explain it anymore. I give up.

I do want to make clear that I would never tell anyone not to be straight or homosexual, or either. That had absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying. What I was saying would equally apply to gay or straight people.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Okay okay a less controversial question is....

Do you think the amount of previous partners your prospective partner has had, matters?

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Okay okay a less controversial question is....

Do you think the amount of previous partners your prospective partner has had, matters?

Not really, no. Just so long as I'm not the first. Namely because I'm not comfortable being somebody's first.

 

[Finished]

You completely misunderstood what I was getting at. I'm not going to try to explain it anymore. I give up.

I do want to make clear that I would never tell anyone not to be straight or homosexual, or either. That had absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying. What I was saying would equally apply to gay or straight people.

I believe you were just trying to say that people shouldn't be so set in their opinions about what is attractive. If they ease up a bit they might very well meet someone they really like and then they'll become more attractive to them. Also that it's not good to complete give up as if there's no hope. I think that's what you were saying.

Now, what I keep saying is that for some people it's not a matter of just relaxing their opinions of what is attractive to them. It's ingrained in their brain AS IF it was like someone gay. NOT exactly like but similar. They simply just can't be attracted to someone that they are not no matter how much they grow to like the other person.

 

[Finished]

Okay okay a less controversial question is....

Do you think the amount of previous partners your prospective partner has had, matters?

Yes. Inexperienced women can be boring and prudish. But, they can also love the crap out of you because it's all so new to them. They'll think you got the best junk ever. More experienced women are usually more laid back about all the *** stuff. But, don't expect to be treated like your something really special. Extremely experienced people just think *** is about like jogging. Anybody can do it, it's not such a big deal any more, and it's basically just a stress reliever.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Do you think the amount of previous partners your prospective partner has had, matters?

I don't know. I mean...it's not something I like, or like to think about, but there's nothing I can do about it.

But I guess, as long as the person doesn't have any STDs, then the partner count doesn't actually matter, it's just in my mind.

STDs are a deal-breaker for me. But other than their health status, I think I'd like to not know their partner count. If their disease status is "no", let's just leave it at that. Outside of that need-to-know piece of information, the less I know, the better.

 

[Colster]

Okay okay a less controversial question is....

Do you think the amount of previous partners your prospective partner has had, matters?

how long is a piece of string?

numbers matter only if they are extreme. Ok, some cultures still maintain that the man should be experienced, yeah well... thankfully the world is changing.

for older guys like myself, the vast majority of what is available out there, is used. But, so are we. Stupid to be too judgemental. Although, the 4x4's, that something every man should run away from. 2 kids from 2 different fathers, that's baggage that Royal Mail couldn't move. But 4 kids to 4 fathers: Run, and keep running until you can't even remember their name!

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Not really, no. Just so long as I'm not the first. Namely because I'm not comfortable being somebody's first.

You are not comfortable being someones first? I feel like thats interesting, as a woman the idea of meeting a male virgin terrified me, not sure why though...I just feel like theres something scary about it

Yes. Inexperienced women can be boring and prudish. But, they can also love the crap out of you because it's all so new to them. They'll think you got the best junk ever. More experienced women are usually more laid back about all the *** stuff. But, don't expect to be treated like your something really special. Extremely experienced people just think *** is about like jogging. Anybody can do it, it's not such a big deal any more, and it's basically just a stress reliever.

You really think women treat you like nothing special if they are more experienced ? Thats awful...

I don't know. I mean...it's not something I like, or like to think about, but there's nothing I can do about it.

But I guess, as long as the person doesn't have any STDs, then the partner count doesn't actually matter, it's just in my mind.

STDs are a deal-breaker for me. But other than their health status, I think I'd like to not know their partner count. If their disease status is "no", let's just leave it at that. Outside of that need-to-know piece of information, the less I know, the better.

Why, would you think its .... better to know less, would you feel jealous?

how long is a piece of string?

numbers matter only if they are extreme. Ok, some cultures still maintain that the man should be experienced, yeah well... thankfully the world is changing.

for older guys like myself, the vast majority of what is available out there, is used. But, so are we. Stupid to be too judgemental. Although, the 4x4's, that something every man should run away from. 2 kids from 2 different fathers, that's baggage that Royal Mail couldn't move. But 4 kids to 4 fathers: Run, and keep running until you can't even remember their name!

A man probably should have experience or he will really struggle I think. Fair enough about the kids, kids are different in my opinion.