Questions for the Men

Loneliness, Depression & Relationship Forum

Help Support Loneliness, Depression & Relationship Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
So, now take it one step further. What if you are not attracted to the only women that find you attractive? When that happens then you can understand the problem. It's not a blame game or a choice. Personally I would love to be attracted to all the 2's and below. I would have all kinds of women in my life.
That hasn't been a problem for me, so I'm not sure how to respond. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but someone in that situation would likely have a problem, yes. I would probably say that they were being too picky.

I probably need to be clearer.

I'm not advocating not being attracted to women that you find attractive. Only women who you have no chance of ever dating. If the hottest woman you've ever seen asked you out to lunch, yes, you should accept. She is a reality. But if that same woman was just walking down the street and wouldn't give you the time of day, why bother with her at all? She is not a reality. What does it even matter if she's attractive or not?
 
You're always going to notice women regardless. And some people need the fantasy because that's literally all there is for them.
You're not as helpless as you think you are. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's possible.
 
That hasn't been a problem for me, so I'm not sure how to respond. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but someone in that situation would likely have a problem, yes. I would probably say that they were being too picky.

I probably need to be clearer.

I'm not advocating not being attracted to women that you find attractive. Only women who you have no chance of ever dating. If the hottest woman you've ever seen asked you out to lunch, yes, you should accept. She is a reality. But if that same woman was just walking down the street and wouldn't give you the time of day, why bother with her at all? She is not a reality. What does it even matter if she's attractive or not?
Well, some guys, luckily not me, are only turned on by super attractive women. It's not really their choice. I know from the outside it looks like they are just being picky. But, inside their head it's not a choice. It's a neccessity. Maybe it's an actual disorder like unfortunately some guys only are attracted to teenage girls. That's not what they want. But, that's what their brains are telling them to be attracted to.
 
No, YOU are arguing just for the sake of it, I'm entirely serious. And how exactly do you know that you aren't just being a shallow guy and refuse to even acknowledge any attraction because she's not what you THINK you want. How exactly do you know that your "soulmate" isn't the opposite of what you think you want. Or people your own age that have wrinkles or a blonde black woman who has crow's feet?
For someone who complains about having little to no experience, you sure do seem to know everything. How exactly does that work?
It's less to do with what we think than what our lizard brain reacts to on a instinctual level. I'm neither require, nor like the Amber Heard 'look', but there's no way I'm pursuing someone I can't imagine that way at all. If you think this is possible then I suggest you try to date another woman, or an 80 year old man for that matter.
 
It's less to do with what we think than what our lizard brain reacts to on a instinctual level. I'm neither require, nor like the Amber Heard 'look', but there's no way I'm pursuing someone I can't imagine that way at all. If you think this is possible then I suggest you try to date another woman, or an 80 year old man for that matter.

Okay, so you are admitting here that you are a lizard person? Good to know, explains a lot :ROFLMAO:

But joking aside, I don't understand why you can't add to your networking circle, because that's what it is if you find that attraction doesn't develop. Meet people, hang out with people, get to know people, you don't always have to DATE people to get to know them, you just have to be around them and learn more about them.

As for me dating another woman or an 80 year old man. I'm straight, so I'm likely not going to date a woman (that's not even a reasonable argument on your end), but I have experimented with women in the past. Also I've actually seen 80 year old men that I thought were quite sexually attractive. Not going to date them or **** them for that matter, but yeah.
 
I wasn't arguing against that. Yes, if he has a real chance at someone he finds attractive, yes, he should pursue it.
Personally I would like to know how to get my brain attracted to someone that I don't really find attractive. I tried. I did pursue things with this woman. But, it was like I was forcing myself to do something my brain didn't want to do. We got along great. So, great that I wanted to stay friends. But, she wanted more. I lost her simply because I couldn't get my brain to be attracted to her. That was definitely my loss and I didn't want it to happen.

Maybe there is a way to retrain what our minds find attractive. But, I haven't figured it out. I would definitely be willing to try though.
 
Last edited:
Well, some guys, luckily not me, are only turned on by super attractive women. It's not really their choice. I know from the outside it looks like they are just being picky. But, inside their head it's not a choice. It's a neccessity. Maybe it's an actual disorder like unfortunately some guys only are attracted to teenage girls. That's not what they want. But, that's what their brains are telling them to be attracted to.
Yes, and if they have no chance of dating a "super attractive woman" (or at least their idea of it), then they are stuck. They can remain frustrated forever, accept the circumstances and remain single, or they can try to appreciate other types of women. But I don't agree that men are completely helpless and can do nothing about such a situation.
 
Yes, and if they have no chance of dating a "super attractive woman" (or at least their idea of it), then they are stuck. They can remain frustrated forever, accept the circumstances and remain single, or they can try to appreciate other types of women. But I don't agree that men are completely helpless and can do nothing about such a situation.
If your brain isn't attracted to someone then it doesn't matter. Sure you can have a non-sexual relationship. But, if that is not what your brain wants then what's the point. We can pretend to be smart enough to control what we really like. But, it doesn't work that way. It just is.

I would like to think that some men aren't completely helpless. But, what can they do? In the movie Shallow Hal, Tony Robin's character put a hypnotic spell into Hal's brain so he would only see someone's inner beauty. That would be fantastic if that was really possible. What are the options?
 
Personally I would like to know how to get my brain attracted to someone that I don't really find attractive. I tried. I did pursue things with this woman. But, it was like I was forcing myself to do something my brain didn't want to do. We got along great. So, great that I wanted to stay friends. But, she wanted more. I lost here simply because I couldn't get my brain to be attracted to her. That was definitely my loss and I didn't want it to happen.

Maybe there is a way to retrain what our minds find attractive. But, I haven't figured it out. I would definitely be willing to try though.
I never argued that you should be attracted to people you don't find attractive.

I've been in that same situation more than once. I really wanted to find a few women I knew attractive, but the "fire" never lit, despite that they were available, we got along great and they seemed to want to date me. There are times it will never work. But it can happen. Sometimes people become more attractive as you get to know them. Sometimes someone doesn't seem attractive when you first meet them, but one day it just hits you. That's happened to me. But sometimes it will never happen no matter what.

I do think there is a lot of male pressure to find a certain kind of woman attractive and it seeps into us without our even knowing. I think it was at least partially bullied into me by other guys in school. But I agree there is an aspect that you can't fully control, but that still doesn't mean that you're helpless.
 
I never argued that you should be attracted to people you don't find attractive.

I've been in that same situation more than once. I really wanted to find a few women I knew attractive, but the "fire" never lit, despite that they were available, we got along great and they seemed to want to date me. There are times it will never work. But it can happen. Sometimes people become more attractive as you get to know them. Sometimes someone doesn't seem attractive when you first meet them, but one day it just hits you. That's happened to me. But sometimes it will never happen no matter what.

I do think there is a lot of male pressure to find a certain kind of woman attractive and it seeps into us without our even knowing. I think it was at least partially bullied into me by other guys in school. But I agree there is an aspect that you can't fully control, but that still doesn't mean that you're helpless.
What's the point in pretending you can potentially find every appearance attractive? You won't be getting any cookies for that. Women don't date men they aren't attracted to, despite the frequent opposite claim. No doubt we're influenced by beauty ideals but it's a stretch to conclude biology has nothing to do with it.
 
Last edited:
LMAO Women don't date men they aren't attracted to? Sorry to burst your bubble but there are women who will date guys they aren't attracted to because the man can get them something they want. There are guys who do this too, date women just to use them and toss them aside once they are done with them. Both sexes do it. I had a female friend who once dated a guy she was not attracted to and was actually turned off by him, he was a creep. She used him to get closer to one of his friends that she was actually attracted too.
 
Wow, do you really think this is the case? This is such an interesting perspective.
I think a lot of male sexuality is socialized early on, often when people don't even realize it. Being solidified at an early age, most of it isn't rational, but it falls apart if one begins to seriously question it. But since it's considered "normal" behavior few people ever do question it. A number of people tried to bully "manhood" into me at school. They doubtlessly thought it was for my own good and they succeeded initially. In their sense, "manhood" included hooting at women, groping them, treating them like toys and considering them good for not much more than ***. Most of them never learned to relate to women other than sexually. To be "a man" you had to lust after "the right" kind of woman. Lusting after the "wrong" kind risked losing your "cool" status. For them, the right kind of "hot" woman tended to resemble women in **** magazines. For example, I was once openly ridiculed by admitting that I found a flat-chested woman "hot." My "manhood" was questioned in front of the entire group. For a teenage boy, it was humiliating. To fit in, I learned what kind of woman I should find "hot" and openly declared it. Then I was "a man" again. I only noticed later that the kind of woman I was supposed to find "hot" conformed to the "beauty standards" that I saw everywhere on television, in movies, in magazines, on billboards and everywhere else. Those early experiences kept getting reinforced. So where did the men who tried to "teach" me what I should find "hot" learn what was "hot?" Many had older brothers who introduced them to **** at an early age, so the first naked female bodies they ever saw were **** models. Because they wanted their little brothers to be "men," they also reinforced the "right" women to be attracted to. Male culture uses a lot of shame to enforce conformity, as do many cultures. As young men develop sexually, they gradually form ideals of what's attractive and they often rely on the advice of others they look up to. Before most of them ever see a real woman naked, the only reference many have are from **** and that becomes a fixed ideal that they carry with them. This ideal gets reinforced by society as a whole, and being "cool" often implies having a "hot" girlfriend, but only having the "right hot" girlfriend. For many young guys, girlfriends are mainly something to show off to other guys as a sign of their "manhood." But that means conforming to an ideal that other "manly men" will validate. Many never consider, or may never be exposed to, other types of sexiness or beauty. Those get filtered out early on in this scenario. So many men spend their lives trying to find women who measure up to the women from the **** they saw at a younger age. Many women out in the real world don't conform to that standard. But because these ideals were imprinted early on they are difficult to overcome. This can lead to sexual frustration.

Though I'm not a fan of **** and I wasn't really exposed to a lot of it, this isn't necessarily an argument against it. I'm completely and fully against any **** that depicts women, or anyone, getting abused outright. But knowing that banning **** would probably ultimately fail in the same way that Prohibition failed, that doesn't seem promising (except for the worst and most abusive kinds, which I'm all for banning). I would instead argue that young straight men should get exposed to a wider variety of female body types than **** usually portrays. Many men are sexualized towards a certain female body type, or only towards a very few similar types, and it arguably saps them of the ability to appreciate the wide variety of other types that exist in the world. People will obviously have widely varied experiences with such things.

The whole notion of attractiveness becomes nebulous if one looks at history. I once watched an anthology of historic American **** that ran from the early 1900s to the 1960s. The earliest films contained women and men who didn't conform whatsoever to today's ideals. They actually looked more like "normal" people. Most of the women had very large hips and thighs and, by today's standards, would probably be considered "mis-shapen." But there they were in ****, showcased in movies specifically meant to be sexually appealing to men. They were depicted as desirable *** goddesses. As the anthology progressed through time, the women became more and more "familiar" in shape, size and type. The bodies became younger and thinner, breasts became bigger, hips became smaller, blondes became more prevalent, and female bodily hair almost vanished. Some of the women in the earliest films had visible armpit hair, unshaven legs and visible cellulite. Male genitalia also went from "normal" sized to unbelievably gigantic proportions. Most of the men I've known in my life would not consider the women in the early films attractive, but men at the time must have. Looking at other sources, women with much larger hips and smaller busts also appeared in cigarette cards of the 1880s, posed seductively and alluringly.

All of this, along with other research and reflection, made me question the ideals that I grew up with and that were pounded into me. I realized that I was raised and socialized to desire thin, blonde, busty, eternally young, shallow women who existed only to fulfill my sexual desires. And I wasn't supposed to consider them as full people. This preference was strong, very strong, inside me and it took a lot of work to deconstruct it and break it down. First of all, looking around me, I saw a large variety of women in the world. Why did I have this strange preference for just a certain kind? Why did everyone else also seem to want this same certain kind? What was wrong with the other women? A lot of women also seemed intelligent and enjoyable to talk to. The smart ones were a lot more fun and interesting than the shallow ones. A lot of them resented the ideals that men tried to impose on them and, never really wanting to be a "manly man," I could relate to a certain degree.

It's hard to explain, but my earlier preferences began to break down and I began to see beauty in different places and women as entire packages, not just as collections of faces, breasts and butts. As I explored, I found the women who didn't meet my earlier ideal far more interesting, relatable and desirable than those that did. I didn't end up attracted to everyone, but I found myself smitten with everything from a scrawny nerdy girl with glasses, to a flat-chested almost no figure blonde with a shaved head, to a woman with a big nose and a flat chest but enormous hips, to a woman I would have once considered "too chubby" with a green mohawk, and a few others. I became attracted to "full packages," meaning enough of a combination of looks and personality to make the whole woman appealing. Aspects of a woman's personality can be just as sexy as any of their fleshy parts. As this attitude developed, I began to distrust looks all by themselves. All alone, they were misleading. They seemed to leave a lot of the good stuff out. A woman isn't just her immediate outward appearance. And if you rely on looks alone, eventually someone "prettier" comes along and the cycle repeats ad infinitum. I also learned that relationships involve a lot more than *** and that I wanted more from a relationship than just ***. I also wanted a companion and a life partner. Many of the "pretty" ones, the ones who met my earlier preferences, seemed too wrapped up in getting attention for their looks from everyone, not just from me, for me to establish relationships with them. Sure, they looked great, but many of them had a sad hollowness inside.

Looking back, I realized that if I had never questioned my earlier ideals and explored a bit, I would have missed out on a lot of great stuff. I would have looked at some of the women I met and brushed them off because they didn't meet some abstract ideal. It took work, persistence and vigilance, but it paid off. I feel a little duped by those who wanted to make me "a man" and I actually feel sorry for them a little now. They accepted nothing outside their insular ideals and I even more than once saw them yelling insults at women they considered "ugly" and encouraging others to do the same. It was bloody cruel. I now want nothing to do with being "a real man" and nothing to do with those old ideals that once clouded my mind. I feel a lot freer inside and I no longer stare or lust after so-called "hot" women who I don't even know. They are just images until I get to know them, but I'll never even speak to a vast majority of them. I sometimes think of all the time I wasted on pointless and futile thoughts and fantasies when I was younger. And I'm pretty sure that aspects of my sexuality were bullied and pounded into me.

All of this of course reflects my own experience and it contains substantial personal, circumstantial and generational elements to it that will obviously not apply to everyone's experience. But I think few people really ever question or analyze how they became what they are, but it's a worthwhile exercise, even if it's initially unpleasant. This entire process was at times agonizing for me and I had to resist a lot of peer and societal pressure along the way. But I think it worked out for the most part.
 
What's the point in pretending you can potentially find every appearance attractive? You won't be getting any cookies for that. Women don't date men they aren't attracted to, despite the frequent opposite claim. No doubt we're influenced by beauty ideals but it's a stretch to conclude biology has nothing to do with it.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I might not be being clear enough also, so it could equally be my fault.

I'm not arguing, and I never argued, that anyone should change their standards of attractiveness. I'm just saying that I no longer waste my time finding women who I would never have a chance of dating attractive or not. It doesn't matter whether I find a woman who I will never meet attractive or not. It doesn't matter whether I find a woman walking on the sidewalk attractive or not. It doesn't matter whether I find a woman on a billboard attractive if they will never be a part of my actual life. I'm done wasting time on that stuff. It does matter whether I find a woman who is in my life, who I can talk to, who knows me and who I can reasonably expect to have a real relationship with attractive, because I can actually do something about it and she's more than just an image or a fantasy. I also never said that biology has nothing to do with it. In the last case I just mentioned, biology has a lot to do with it. Shared physical biology between two people who are attracted to each other, the best kind, actually has a chance of happening in that case.
 
Lol... i'm starting to see why you guys just say "no preference" now...
Very interesting, the thing I dont understand about the whole concept is...

Can we really control what we find attractive? I know I cant... instead of calling a spade a spade,
Or attractive attractive, it feels like you label women you find attractive as the "no chance women"...
Regardless of not admitting it, they are the hot ones, the ones that men are either conditioned to want or biologically want who knows...

I think there is a level of group think in school days, deffo my school had that, if you were not blonde, blue eyes apple pie..aka white.. you were nothing... I changed schools years later, different area, and if you were not "exotic" and "mixed" you were nothing... obviously worked out well for me. Boys that liked me in my previous school would only like me in private, they never told anyone, still gives me a complex today, I make men jump through public complex hoops to get a potential chance with me, makes me feel better about myself lol. I think thats why I love grand gestures, because I was the secret crush.

As I got older, had large groups of girlfriends I noticed something, we were all approached, not equal amounts, but all of us, none were ignored. I cant say thats a reality for men... however, I never knew that. I've been on the search to investigate the power of attraction, and what it means to different people.

I like that people express their differences, if only we could learn to do that without thinking we are arguing and telling others how to think 🙃 (that wasn't for you ewomack, you're as civil as they come lol)
 
Geeze...******* thesis essay for answers. They just drag on...try concise. It's not difficult. I guess I'll get a very long, very extended response. Or, a nice and clear **** you. Hoping for the latterm
 
This is so interesting, so did you used to think it would confirm your self worth if a "hot girl" would give you a chance. Thats a lot to base on someone else, I think that makes sense though.

Yeah I guess you could say that. Growing up I thought it would make me a "winner", a guy who gets what he wants.

Half of it was wanting to get the hottest woman possible, for the physical thrills, and also because I guess I subconsciously absorbed the idea from society that the guy that gets the hottest girl "wins".

And the other half was wanting to defy what I felt were the "limits" that I felt the "cool kids" placed on me. I wanted to date a hot girl and be like, you *******s can't keep me down.

But that's the thing, what I wanted changed, the more I understood myself, and the more I understood that it wasn't about some kind of social competition, or some kind of bucket list experience, but about connecting with another person that you find interesting and care about.

I love the obsessed with connections idea, I think thats a really healthy stand point, I just wonder though, don't you want someone that completes your circle of desires, someone who can give you the connection and the physical thrill? Do you think you can adapt your taste over time? Do you think someone out there is impossible to find? or so hard to find that you would rather search for the connection alone, as thats more important.

It took a while getting to that point though, thinking it through. Eventually it just clicked. I noticed that a lot of the traditionally "hot" women have interests and values and personalities that don't match mine. I wouldn't feel comfortable, like I could "be myself" with them, just like I felt around the "cool kids" growing up. And I understood that it doesn't matter how hot a woman is if I can't talk to her because we have nothing to talk about, or if I don't have anything that I want to ask her, if there isn't anything about her that makes me want to get to know her as a person. Or if I don't see myself caring about her as a person.

And I wasn't angry about it either, because it wasn't about giving up, or "being realistic"/"settling"/"staying in my league" or anything like that. When I was a kid, I thought I had to just wait for the traditionally attractive girls to realize that "the cool guys" were jerks, but in time I realized that they weren't going to change, it was who they really were, and I was waiting for nothing, and it didn't matter anyway because they wouldn't have made me happy because we're just not alike. I remembered times when I'd tried to talk to women that I really shouldn't have started talking to because we didn't have enough in common and didn't have similar enough personalities/temperaments/natures or values, and looking back, the conversations weren't even that interesting, weren't even that much fun. It would have saved me a lot of grief to realize this sooner. I wasted a lot of time and energy that I could have been happier, getting upset over nothing I would have been that happy with anyway. That's what I really regret.

I really wish I'd never really given any thought to the whole "cool" world, just thought "eh, it's not for me" and just did my own thing. I wonder who I would have been if I never let that and everything else bother me.

I think that at this point, I've seen just about all the different personality types out there. And I think your last sentence nails it - it would be so hard to find absolutely everything that I'd want in one person, in fact I don't even think such a person exists anymore. Nowadays I'd just rather have the connection, since that's what counts.

Thing is, I think if theres no physical desire at first what would make you wanna get to know that person? How would you pick? Wouldn't it always boil down to who was more visually appealing in the first instance of getting to know them?

What would make me want to get to know the person? Common interests. Showing me an interesting inner world with the thoughts they come up with, that makes me curious, makes me feel like they're unique. Them saying or doing something endearing, something that makes me care about them.

I think it's like others have said - physical desire can happen later, the more you like a person and see their good qualities. It's happened to me a few times now.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top