Reasons why you are picked on.
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Equinox
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As adults, I once asked the guy who bullied me when we were kids about why he did it. His reply: "I bullied you? I don't remember that." I'm sure his reasons were very deep and meaningful. 
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lonelyfairy
Guest
Skorian said:
Yeah, that is true... I hope that I am brave enough someday to ask why they bullied me, if I see them (this is a little city...).
IgnoredOne
Well-known member
lonelyfairy said:
There are no deep, meaningful reasons for meanness. It is, like they are, just another facet of the ultimate pathetic natures of bullies. *hugs*
L
lonelyfairy
Guest
IgnoredOne said:
That is true, also...
*hugs back*
Equinox said:As adults, I once asked the guy who bullied me when we were kids about why he did it. His reply: "I bullied you? I don't remember that." I'm sure his reasons were very deep and meaningful.
Maybe you should have tried to ask in a different way? Realize that normal communication can be seen as being mean, by many here. I will bet you agonized over it and expected them to have done the same? Why do people with mental illness go to such great lenghts to prove themself right? Why not prove yourself wrong? What is so hard about being wrong? Why can they not easily do both?
I know when I was picked on. I could have easily fixed it all those years ago. All I really had to do was stand up to it in a reasonable way, rather then act like a turkey.
Why is it so hard for some people to admit fault and point the finger at themself? Why do so many here want to blame the world rather then ask what they did wrong? Why agnonize over it? Is there anything to be gained by beating one's self up? Revenge and spite doesn't make most anyone feel good. So why wish the same suffering you go through on others? Why can you not see that in truth the world doesn't even inflict that suffering, but that you inflict it upon yourselves? Why is it so hard to realize that this just tortures yourself? Other people move on to something else. Why stand there holding the hot potato burning your hands? Why are some so weak they can't even just throw it far away?
Even if someone is a jerk and has fun at your expense. Why not be happy that they are happy? Especially as long as your not physically hurt.
I used to wish for revenge on some folks, but it is just petty. I would never feel better. It wouldn't solve anything to get them back for picking on me. It definitly wasn't worth obsessing over or beating myself up over after the fact.
Why not move on into how to solve problems rather then sit and relive them? Why do some people crave feeling like crap? Can't let it go, have to be unhappy?
Ian Haines
Well-known member
Sometimes, some plants must be killed at the root.
Sometimes, you just have to go back, or the pain never leaves, and I'm not a believer in beating myself up.
Sometimes, you just have to go back, or the pain never leaves, and I'm not a believer in beating myself up.
The human brain isn't a plant.Ian Haines said:
I don't agree that it is helpful for people to relive things. It is healthier for them to just move on. You can't change the past, just how you think about it or if you think about it at all.
Neural pathways eventually die when not used. Why refresh and strengthen them? Why go over them and make them fresh? What is it about standard care mental health advocates that like to make people into victims for life?
Ian Haines
Well-known member
Hi, Skorian...always a treat.
Look up the word "metaphor" - then, read it again.
As with CBT, you have to repair the damage by addressing the maladaptive ideation (the mistaken "branching off" caused by an earlier life event) that was created by the original event, or series of events. A wrong turn is made by sub-conscious reflex - the bullying victim didn't decide to go down that route. Being jostled or bullied brings alive the prehistoric reflex to survive. There is no choice in this. Some brush it off and lead normal lives, but others are deeply traumatised by the bullying and by the days, weeks or months during which they are aware that it still hangs over their heads and could start again, at any time. That constant air of menace will remain if not addressed by examining the thought processes that created it, on the spot, during those times. Granted, for many people, it forms an insignificant portion of their memories of those years and they live relatively normal lives, in spite of the memories. However, the science of psychology was created in order to help understand the feelings of those who cannot just brush it off: their feelings cannot be dismissed so callously as to suggest that they should "just get over it".
Alternative ways of viewing only those originals are essential to make inroads into self-esteem and anger problems caused by bullying. Once identified and applied, they can also then be useful in other confrontations with bullies, for the rest of the sufferer's life.
Other approaches for those tortured by bullying memories never work.
Once the person is haunted by the bullies of their past, they have to pick up at the break-off point, where it deeply influenced their self-image into entirely the wrong direction. Anywhere closer in time will prove not be a suitable arena in which to operate, for some patient and for some results.
You have to go to the root (think "metaphor!") cause! All subsequent encounters were decided upon by unreachable criteria beneath layers of suppression and embarrassment upon remembering. The right application of therapy can do some very effective reaching for them. When they need it, they shouldn't be made to feel like whimps, merely for needing help! If they need that help, I say GO AND GET IT! It's there for you - I was bullied at school, also, and I know what you went through.
Those earlier factors and responses, and the reasons for them, must be found and adequately worked through. For many formerly bullied individuals, this doesn't apply. At times, telling those to whom it does apply to "just get over it" simply doesn't work!
Ian.
Look up the word "metaphor" - then, read it again.
As with CBT, you have to repair the damage by addressing the maladaptive ideation (the mistaken "branching off" caused by an earlier life event) that was created by the original event, or series of events. A wrong turn is made by sub-conscious reflex - the bullying victim didn't decide to go down that route. Being jostled or bullied brings alive the prehistoric reflex to survive. There is no choice in this. Some brush it off and lead normal lives, but others are deeply traumatised by the bullying and by the days, weeks or months during which they are aware that it still hangs over their heads and could start again, at any time. That constant air of menace will remain if not addressed by examining the thought processes that created it, on the spot, during those times. Granted, for many people, it forms an insignificant portion of their memories of those years and they live relatively normal lives, in spite of the memories. However, the science of psychology was created in order to help understand the feelings of those who cannot just brush it off: their feelings cannot be dismissed so callously as to suggest that they should "just get over it".
Alternative ways of viewing only those originals are essential to make inroads into self-esteem and anger problems caused by bullying. Once identified and applied, they can also then be useful in other confrontations with bullies, for the rest of the sufferer's life.
Other approaches for those tortured by bullying memories never work.
Once the person is haunted by the bullies of their past, they have to pick up at the break-off point, where it deeply influenced their self-image into entirely the wrong direction. Anywhere closer in time will prove not be a suitable arena in which to operate, for some patient and for some results.
You have to go to the root (think "metaphor!") cause! All subsequent encounters were decided upon by unreachable criteria beneath layers of suppression and embarrassment upon remembering. The right application of therapy can do some very effective reaching for them. When they need it, they shouldn't be made to feel like whimps, merely for needing help! If they need that help, I say GO AND GET IT! It's there for you - I was bullied at school, also, and I know what you went through.
Those earlier factors and responses, and the reasons for them, must be found and adequately worked through. For many formerly bullied individuals, this doesn't apply. At times, telling those to whom it does apply to "just get over it" simply doesn't work!
Ian.
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Equinox
Guest
You want to know what makes me feel like crap? People who tries to make me feel like I'm responsible for being bullied; that somehow it's my own fault that some other kids decided to torment me.
Every person is responsible for their own actions, and how these affect others. If I'm sitting quietly in a corner, disturbing nobody, and someones walks over to me and pushes me down on the floor - how does this make them innocent and justified? Why should I be pointing fingers at myself?
It's a sad day for the world when people start defending the bullies instead of the victims. A sad day indeed. I'll leave this nonsense now, and return to my christmas bubble of warmth, kidness and hope. Thank you very much.
Every person is responsible for their own actions, and how these affect others. If I'm sitting quietly in a corner, disturbing nobody, and someones walks over to me and pushes me down on the floor - how does this make them innocent and justified? Why should I be pointing fingers at myself?
It's a sad day for the world when people start defending the bullies instead of the victims. A sad day indeed. I'll leave this nonsense now, and return to my christmas bubble of warmth, kidness and hope. Thank you very much.
You are a smart and articulate woman.
The problem is the sheer complexity of the human body and mind. There is so much we don't know. The cost of diagnostic testing, the limits of time people have, the limits of personal knowledge and experience, the sheer lack of funding and awareness of orthomolecular medicine, the lack of facilities, lack of funding for research. I wish I had more answers for myself, but what I do know has helped me a great deal more then therapy or excessively potent mind altering drugs that don't really correct the problem.
Not even getting into the fact that orthomolecular medicine's marketshare is in opposition to the pharmacutical industries marketshare and so viewed as a threat and attacked. There is a terrible double standard in favor of the more profitable route.
Even if we had a perfect guide to how to diagnose and solve every problem, most people would mess it up, we are pretty flawed. That however is no excuse for not trying.
Equinox said:
Ian Haines said:
The problem is the sheer complexity of the human body and mind. There is so much we don't know. The cost of diagnostic testing, the limits of time people have, the limits of personal knowledge and experience, the sheer lack of funding and awareness of orthomolecular medicine, the lack of facilities, lack of funding for research. I wish I had more answers for myself, but what I do know has helped me a great deal more then therapy or excessively potent mind altering drugs that don't really correct the problem.
Not even getting into the fact that orthomolecular medicine's marketshare is in opposition to the pharmacutical industries marketshare and so viewed as a threat and attacked. There is a terrible double standard in favor of the more profitable route.
Even if we had a perfect guide to how to diagnose and solve every problem, most people would mess it up, we are pretty flawed. That however is no excuse for not trying.
Ian Haines
Well-known member
Equinox...
That also applies when folk say "Don't look like a victim and you won't be picked on and become one." It staggers me that people being bullied are, even now, still being blamed for bringing it upon themselves.
This not-looking-like-a-victim "thing" is basically similar to saying, "Keep dancing the body-language dance, and fully conform to it, or you're in for some more battering brought to you by yourself!"
Nobody should have to falsify their posture or the direction of their gaze because those advocating that they do so are too bone idle, or afraid of conflicts with education boards and panels.
Ian.
Skorian...
Our exchanges have reached the end of their potential and that's because we are both right.
As it happens, I have had a lot of experience with what you're talking about and it involved people who had gone through unbelievable (to their household and friends and non-household family members) character and general personality changes during sub-clinical infections and nutritional imbalances. When these imbalances or other conditions were found - 9 years later, they could hardly believe the character descriptions given to them...of characters that they had actually seemed to be, for many of those years.
However, what the bullied people recall is from far further back into their life history for a current chemical imbalance to have caused their response to the bullies sometimes more than 30 years into their past. And, my own benefits from CBT were ALL in place and being acted upon, and still are, within 10 months (not a year or more) and they were stronger personal issues than bullying back in school. I update the therapist with my progress and how I've applied the CBT techniques to earlier unreported areas of life with great success and I know that, should I develop the need, I can get right back in touch with him and start over, but I'll not need to.
Those who tell the bullied patients that they should just move on and get past it are guilty of aggravating the long-lasting effects of the bullying, themselves. To make a formerly bullied person feel that they must have something radically wrong with them because they're not so tough as to have been able to move on, is tantamount to adding worse feelings of low self-esteem and guilt to the mix and I don't see how that "move on" advice can make them feel any better, myself.
For now, both sciences should agree to agree, but it will have to be so that they appear to need to agree to disagree. Neither science is superior to the other: they are just given to sufferers by those with faith in them, different faiths though they may have to be. I say "Go down the road marked 'Psychology'" and you say, "Fiddle with some molecules and chemicals and watch out for a magical cure popping up." But, I see no reason why BOTH cannot be used.
It's been great, chatting again. Somebody created a great thread - yeah?
Ian.
That also applies when folk say "Don't look like a victim and you won't be picked on and become one." It staggers me that people being bullied are, even now, still being blamed for bringing it upon themselves.
This not-looking-like-a-victim "thing" is basically similar to saying, "Keep dancing the body-language dance, and fully conform to it, or you're in for some more battering brought to you by yourself!"
Nobody should have to falsify their posture or the direction of their gaze because those advocating that they do so are too bone idle, or afraid of conflicts with education boards and panels.
Ian.
Skorian...
Our exchanges have reached the end of their potential and that's because we are both right.
As it happens, I have had a lot of experience with what you're talking about and it involved people who had gone through unbelievable (to their household and friends and non-household family members) character and general personality changes during sub-clinical infections and nutritional imbalances. When these imbalances or other conditions were found - 9 years later, they could hardly believe the character descriptions given to them...of characters that they had actually seemed to be, for many of those years.
However, what the bullied people recall is from far further back into their life history for a current chemical imbalance to have caused their response to the bullies sometimes more than 30 years into their past. And, my own benefits from CBT were ALL in place and being acted upon, and still are, within 10 months (not a year or more) and they were stronger personal issues than bullying back in school. I update the therapist with my progress and how I've applied the CBT techniques to earlier unreported areas of life with great success and I know that, should I develop the need, I can get right back in touch with him and start over, but I'll not need to.
Those who tell the bullied patients that they should just move on and get past it are guilty of aggravating the long-lasting effects of the bullying, themselves. To make a formerly bullied person feel that they must have something radically wrong with them because they're not so tough as to have been able to move on, is tantamount to adding worse feelings of low self-esteem and guilt to the mix and I don't see how that "move on" advice can make them feel any better, myself.
For now, both sciences should agree to agree, but it will have to be so that they appear to need to agree to disagree. Neither science is superior to the other: they are just given to sufferers by those with faith in them, different faiths though they may have to be. I say "Go down the road marked 'Psychology'" and you say, "Fiddle with some molecules and chemicals and watch out for a magical cure popping up." But, I see no reason why BOTH cannot be used.
It's been great, chatting again. Somebody created a great thread - yeah?
Ian.
IgnoredOne
Well-known member
Anyone who thinks that Equinox cannot stand up for herself now is severely mistaken.
Ian Haines
Well-known member
Skorian...
I SAID: "Nobody should have to falsify their posture or the direction of their gaze because those advocating that they do so are too bone idle, or afraid of conflicts with education boards and panels."
YOU SAID: "What are you talking about? Some issue you have with paying attention at a meeting? You should have to at least appear to be paying attention. People put in effort to have a meeting and it sounds like you are miss behaving and don't feel you should be taken to task? This is what it means to follow rules and have etiquette."
You seem to be perfecting the art of not reading things correctly. Let me expand on the sentence for you...
I'll type this slowly so that you can keep up!
Nobody bullied should have to advisorily falsify their posture (body language) or the direction of their gaze (eye-contact between potentially conflictive tribe/group members) in school/college rooms or other areas merely because those in charge of educational establishments, such as schools and colleges are afraid to uphold a victim's bullying claims at school boards and in front of local education panels (it happens a lot in my country), in case the people in charge at the school get the blame, instead, for failing to be vigilant enough to prevent the bullying in the first place.
This inspires some of the seniors in charge of educational establishments to often (barely believably, in fact) blame the bullied folk, often telling them not to make waves, and to just keep themselves to themselves.
What does "meetings" have to do with this?
In the world of bullying, as in the world of rape, most are advised to never victimise the victim!
See how easy that was?
Oh, and...
YOU SAID: "Ya, it is nice to be totally lazy and slack off." In the name of all that is wobbly, what the Heck are you talking about?
Also: what does "miss behaving" mean?
That's pretty much the first time I've had to turn one sentence into several, here. Amazing...it's years since I had to do a expanding breakdown of a single sentence.
Let's see: "meeting"? Erm..."miss behaving". And..."totally lazy and slack off." Did you use a laptop during rehab', to reply?
Ian.
Skorian...
If you are a previously bullied guy who wants to go on blaming himself for all those ear-flicks, then carry on: it clearly satisfies some need within you, to do so. But, the victims of bullies, to my own view...ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR BEING BULLIED! Think of the name of the one who made you believe that you are to blame and never listen to that voice again, about bullying!
IT LIED TO YOU, WHEREVER IT CAME FROM!
Otherwise, tell me...do you blame raped women for having been raped?
Ian.
I SAID: "Nobody should have to falsify their posture or the direction of their gaze because those advocating that they do so are too bone idle, or afraid of conflicts with education boards and panels."
YOU SAID: "What are you talking about? Some issue you have with paying attention at a meeting? You should have to at least appear to be paying attention. People put in effort to have a meeting and it sounds like you are miss behaving and don't feel you should be taken to task? This is what it means to follow rules and have etiquette."
You seem to be perfecting the art of not reading things correctly. Let me expand on the sentence for you...
I'll type this slowly so that you can keep up!
Nobody bullied should have to advisorily falsify their posture (body language) or the direction of their gaze (eye-contact between potentially conflictive tribe/group members) in school/college rooms or other areas merely because those in charge of educational establishments, such as schools and colleges are afraid to uphold a victim's bullying claims at school boards and in front of local education panels (it happens a lot in my country), in case the people in charge at the school get the blame, instead, for failing to be vigilant enough to prevent the bullying in the first place.
This inspires some of the seniors in charge of educational establishments to often (barely believably, in fact) blame the bullied folk, often telling them not to make waves, and to just keep themselves to themselves.
What does "meetings" have to do with this?
In the world of bullying, as in the world of rape, most are advised to never victimise the victim!
See how easy that was?
Oh, and...
YOU SAID: "Ya, it is nice to be totally lazy and slack off." In the name of all that is wobbly, what the Heck are you talking about?
Also: what does "miss behaving" mean?
That's pretty much the first time I've had to turn one sentence into several, here. Amazing...it's years since I had to do a expanding breakdown of a single sentence.
Let's see: "meeting"? Erm..."miss behaving". And..."totally lazy and slack off." Did you use a laptop during rehab', to reply?
Ian.
Skorian...
If you are a previously bullied guy who wants to go on blaming himself for all those ear-flicks, then carry on: it clearly satisfies some need within you, to do so. But, the victims of bullies, to my own view...ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR BEING BULLIED! Think of the name of the one who made you believe that you are to blame and never listen to that voice again, about bullying!
IT LIED TO YOU, WHEREVER IT CAME FROM!
Otherwise, tell me...do you blame raped women for having been raped?
Ian.
People in the education system have to deal with the real as well as contrived cases. If it is easy to claim a problem, then people are more likely to abuse it. That is the same reason why it is against the law to call the police on false pretenses just to mess around.
It is easy for you. You can just sit and collect a paycheck even if the person is not telling the truth. You don't have to determine what actually happened for a fact. You don't have to deal with evidence or others breathing down your neck. In reality when things go wrong, everyone gets blamed. There is no perfect way for that not to be the case. It has to be that way to sort the matter out. The only way for things to not be that way requires someone being all knowing. No one is.
It is easy for you. You can just sit and collect a paycheck even if the person is not telling the truth. You don't have to determine what actually happened for a fact. You don't have to deal with evidence or others breathing down your neck. In reality when things go wrong, everyone gets blamed. There is no perfect way for that not to be the case. It has to be that way to sort the matter out. The only way for things to not be that way requires someone being all knowing. No one is.
IgnoredOne
Well-known member
That type of thinking is why so many abuse victims end up not calling the police and why abusers get away with so much. Sad. Why inform authorities, when the victim could get into trouble?
Ian Haines said:
Yes, a need for justice and fairness for all, not just myself. This voice is my conscience. I know that pointing fingers at someone can hurt them just as much as they could hurt me. Neither ends up innocent.
I have no desire to be victimized by you. I do not have your "need". Nor do I have some burning need to be liked that you can prey upon. Will be more then happy to ask for help from a human rights group I know to take your license to practice away if you even try. They specialize in just that sort of thing. I wish I would do more to put a stop to this abuse. Helped take one guys away. He won't hurt anyone else.
I am not suprised to hear you talk about your need. That you will try to convince me it is mine. I am only interested in being close to people who are more balanced. That don't have special and powerful needs that they bend their world around.
IgnoredOne said:
I don't disagree, but life is complicated. Which is why things aren't perfect. It is a complex issue. It can be gratifying for people to stand up for themselves. If they can't then something does need to be done to stop it.
Ian Haines
Well-known member
Skorian...
Then, it's your lucky day - I wouldn't dream of being balanced!
Ian.
Then, it's your lucky day - I wouldn't dream of being balanced!
Ian.
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