The truth about us undesirables

[Xpendable]

I've had situations where I wasn't even thinking about feeling miserable. Sometimes I'm even having a good day and something happens out of the blue. Is not a sense of "innately" thinking about it. I know you would like to think I (we) have this mindset so you can come up victorious and disregard our experience, but as it was said before, It's a constant sum failure after failure that damages any hope you can have. So yeah, you are desensitized; as well as 80% of the population is desensitized to the experience of true loneliness. It's not your fault because you can't understand it, so please let us have the benefit of the doubt and actually consider human relations are not a skill anyone can have and that relationships are nothing more than cold transactions.

 

[mgill]

So why does it matter if she's not into you either? 

As he said,  after nothing but 100% failure each new rejection starts to have a ominous significance to it, confirming the growing suspicion that it's your fate to be alone. It's about more than this particular girl. Shouldn't be that hard to understand really (unless you don't want to understand...)

Maybe I'm a bit desensitized to this sort of ... rejection? I was actually trying to help, but I apologize if I was offensive.


However, at the risk of offending again, I feel like sometimes people on (not specifically this thread) this site... and the world in general are looking at every situation regardless of how it ends up going as just another reason to be miserable. Like they don't have enough as it is, they need to create more. Going into a situation and deciding it's going to make or break you, but with the mindset that you are innately undesirable anyway so it doesn't really matter it will go bad, doesn't really give you a chance for anything to go well.

Anyway that's my view, I won't interrupt your venting further.

i would not consider your questions & statement as offensive or an interruption in any way.  i do think that you are confusing cause & effect though.  the negative mindset is DUE to the lack of success not the cause of it.  for those who have had some form of success in the past, it is far easier to regroup after rejections.  for those who have not, every rejection is just another confirmation of our undesirability and unattractiveness. 

 it is not one rejection or two or even several that are an issue.  the problem is consistent and on going failure over a long period of time with no success.  this is especially true when one has most if not all of the other aspects of their life in line due to effort & hard work.  dating & relationships are two of the very rare area's where success is not dependent in any way on anything but chance & looks.  is not giving up after a long period of failure with no indication of success merely a rational, logical action?  it is an extremely harsh truth to realize but everything in life is a competition and some of us were simply not gifted with the tools to succeed on any level in this area.

 

[ITellYouHhwut]

I’m going to explain to those of you who are trying to offer help and support why you’re not only wrong with every bit of advice and support you give, but why you’re also not doing a good thing by trying to offer help, though your intentions are good.

More recently in life, I’ve become very aware of the concepts of eugenics and dysgenics. These two phenomena are essentially the two trajectories which population genetics can take. Eugenic fertility being the promulgation of desirable genetic traits over undesirable genetic traits, and dysgenic fertility being the promulgation of undesirable genetic traits over desirable genetic traits.

Once the concept of evolution/eugenics/dysgenics has entered your consciousness, and you have been made aware of their realities, there is really no going back to your old former way of thinking - (i.e. the “everyone has a purpose/all men are created equal/you can do anything you set your mind to” type of thinking). You never look at the world the same way again.

It turns out that reality is much harsher and less happy than that, and we humans do our best to avoid recognizing and admiting such reality.

It also turns out that human societies in general have been on a dysgenic fertility trend for quite some time now. The reason for this largely due to the advent of modern society, and the way in which it inhibits natural selection from doing its natural work in destroying the inferior, and leaving the strong to procreate. It is obviously slightly more complicated than that, but overall it can be summed up as modern society subverting/relaxing natural selection, and so allowing the promulgation of the inferior when they would have otherwise died, or at the very least, failed to achieve mating success.

Many of the policies of modern liberal societies also cause dysgenic effects on human populations, such as welfare states (allowing the inferior to survive, and subsequently procreate), the emancipation of women and push for women in the workforce and professional roles (destroying the family unit, making it difficult for high IQ women to procreate), and third-world immigration (the importation of low IQ migrants into high-IQ societies which drive down the collective intelligence of the society). If you’re interested, you can look more into these topics yourself. I won’t explain them at length. There is much more than just those three examples, but those are three of the big ones.

For myself, I am starting to see very clearly that my lack of success with women has nothing to do with anything I am commonly told by those who offer help and support. It’s not because of “low confidence”, nor is it because of “low self-esteem”, or any of those things. It is simply because of inferior genetics. I’m simply not of desirable genetics, and as such, women do not assess me as a desirable mate. Women select for strength, assertiveness, and other dominant qualities in men, because these are the most prone to to provide her and her offspring with shelter and resources. If you are a man who does not garner attraction from women, it quite literally means that you are of weak and inferior genetics, and would most likely have died under uninhibited natural selection. But as stated before, modernity has created a conundrum in which human life is sheltered, hence cluttering the bottom of the hierarchy instead of eliminating those inferior people and allowing the natural order to promote the furtherance of the strongest and brightest. The movie Idiocracy actually outlines this fact perfectly.

For me, to here is nothing I could or should do to change the fact that I don’t attract women. To encourage fellows like me to “improve ourselves” and “keep trying” to get women is actually a terrible thing to do, good intentioned as it may be. It does nothing but further promulgate the trend of dysgenic fertility in our society, eventually leading to very bleak outcomes on a national, or even global, scale. Folks like myself should be encouraged and/or incentivized not to procreate, and possibly even incentivized to self-terminate, since the effects of natural selection have been relaxed to the point wherein nature cannot be counted on to take us out now.

 

[ardour]

You're mixing up genotype with phenotype. Women are responding to your physical and personality characteristics (some of which is heritable).   Ancient societies based on slavery or brute force weren't particularly 'eugenic' for traits that benefit society now. Neither were feudal societies based on inherited title.  You've chosen to buy into a  set alt-right/far right pseudo science as a way to vent anger and make sense of your situation. I guess it's understandable to a point.

 

[MissBehave]

There are winners and losers. 
Being very undesirable makes it harder to find women/men that’s going be interested since there are fewer to pick from. Then it’s about luck, hitting that person that wants to be with you.
I do believe that there is someone out there for everyone but that’s easy to say and some never find it. 
Only advise I got is to keep searching and not close off completely.

Truth is, I would always choose the man that is best suited for me.

 

[mgill]

There are winners and losers. 
Being very undesirable makes it harder to find women/men that’s going be interested since there are fewer to pick from. Then it’s about luck, hitting that person that wants to be with you.
I do believe that there is someone out there for everyone but that’s easy to say and some never find it. 
Only advise I got is to keep searching and not close off completely.

Truth is, I would always choose the man that is best suited for me.

i would agree with everything thing you said except about not giving up.  to me, false hope is very addictive and extremely destructive. there have been many times in the past that i have had my hopes up only to see them dashed to bits causing great depression & sorrow. if something does ever comes up again, as unlikely as that is, i would attempt to pursue it but i would also accept a free lottery ticket if given one.  i would not, however, continue to play the lottery myself hoping that i may hit the jackpot someday.

as far as the someone for everyone theory, there are likely many others very compatible with each person but as you said, the odds of ever coming across even a single one as a highly undesirable person are so low that it gives one very little if any comfort to believed this idea. for example, speaking as an agnostic when it comes to the existence of a god, i live my life as if there is not one as i have never experienced any evidence to the contrary.

 

[MissBehave]

There is a difference between thinking that you are going to get everything you want vs a more realistic view. Maybe you aren’t gonna get what you originally aimed for.
But what are you going to do with no hope? Even if it’s a straight up lie. If this was a subject of anything else besides companionship, then I would think false hope was a bad thing to do. This is such a basic and important need that the thought of not having it has to be very painful. But this is my view of it.
For some false hope is all that’s keeping them from the edge, for others the thought of having false hope is more painful that the reality of the situation. 
We are all different and need different things.

As for the op: Some things can’t be changed. Telling someone that you just need to improve yourself is hard to hear when the one receiving those words don’t believe it. Expecting understanding from everyone isn’t realistic. Let them say wtf they want and take to heart those words that feels right for you. Few are able to put themselves in others shoes so completely that they understand how it’s like. 
As for myself, my problem isn’t a looks and physical one but more mental. I get the feeling when someone tells you to change something that you can’t fix. It sucks. 
I try to choose what words I listen to and put value in. **** the rest.

 

[ardour]

But what are you going to do with no hope? 

Hope can end up being extinguished one way or another and shock realizations are likely to push someone over the edge too.

It wouldn't be surprising if in 20 years time 30-40% of young men are unable to have any romantic experiences. Continuing to push platitudes and boosting the expectations of all those bitter guys isn't going to end well for them or society.

 

[MissBehave]

Well... yeah. I agree.
Hope has been extinguished many times in my life. 
Every time that has happened I have lowered my expectations to life. Now I’m running around in a box I’ve created for myself. I know that box is going to crumble too at one point, leaving me with no more space to create something new. 
I’d rather spend my time in this life with that false hope, enjoying what I can enjoy until it’s my time to go. 
Anyways.
I don’t think boosting guys expectations is smart at all. It’s more an attitude towards life I guess.

 

[ITellYouHhwut]

You're mixing up genotype with phenotype. Women are responding to your physical and personality characteristics (some of which is heritable).   Ancient societies based on slavery or brute force weren't particularly 'eugenic' for traits that benefit society now. Neither were feudal societies based on inherited title.  You've chosen to buy into a  set alt-right/far right pseudo science as a way to vent anger and make sense of your situation. I guess it's understandable to a point.

Lol. Eugenics/dysgenics isn’t an alt-right theory. That’s just literally how things used to be for millions of years, and still are, though modern society has made things more complicated. 

I tried to ask a girl out recently actually. Did not go well. I thought she would at least give me a chance since I had courted her for a while, and perceived that we at least had a friendship going. Nope, I was wrong. I’ll never try it again. The truth is clear to me now.

 

[ardour]

It sounded like you'd been reading The Bell Curve, since it's pretty much the manual for Alt-right inspired racism and IQ theory at the moment. 

As  a man you have to ask dozens of women out before society considers you to have even tried. It sucks. I haven't done that either. I've only asked out about 5 women in my life.

 

[mgill]

It sounded like you'd been reading The Bell Curve, since it's pretty much the manual for Alt-right inspired racism and IQ theory at the moment. 

As  a man you have to ask dozens of women out before society considers you to have even tried. It sucks. I haven't done that either. I've only asked out about 5 women in my life.

personally, i have never cared much about what society thinks or does-instead, it is the women to whom i am attracted whose opinion matters to me.  that is where a failure of epic proportions makes giving up the only viable option.  

the tall, attractive men have it all.  they don't even need to do anything and are constantly approached by women without having to make any effort.  it's almost like they are a different, vastly superior species.

 

[QuietDesperation]

You guys talk intelligently and articulately about your difficulties with dating - and how it's based on stigmas in society, etc. I admire all of you for your thoughtful posts.

I could only wish the best for you guys - you're obviously good, bright personalities, and some of you have good jobs, creativity, desirable traits like tall height, etc.

I do wish people could all have the brain surgery in Ted Chiang's short story - where we'd stop being able to see pretty and ugly in people. We'd still be able to see people's facial features clearly - we just wouldn't be able to perceive attractiveness or unattractiveness in people. That would really eliminate beauty bias - maybe the most extreme, under-acknowledged, and pervasive bias in society, throughout history.

A good blog post about that short story, "Liking What You See: A Documentary": https://afuzzyrants.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/liking-what-you-see-a-documentary-by-ted-chiang/

AMC seemed to have been developing a show on that short story, but it may have fallen through, since I haven't seen anything on it since 2017: https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/29/...hat-you-see-arrival-ted-chiang-eric-heisserer

I'm one of the few true female Forever Alones - I'll be Forever Alone forever and ever. There's not many women who can commiserate with me.

I'm not holding out on any hope. I'd rather not. My problems are too extreme and unsolvable - and I've tried everything. My life is like a horrific, traumatic death sentence. I'm basically alone in the world.

These kinds of threads seem like threads about end-stage cancer. A sad, defeated vibe, ready for death, but maybe not that ready.

 

[ardour]

^Less attractive people are probably on average less desirable overall, achieve less due to low motivation, but some traits are more important than others. For men it's confidence/masculinity. This is difficult to improve since these is more more of an innate traits. That's why there's more men in this situation. Women just have to be social and reasonably likeable... so that would be general social/conversation skills (?) I don't see why you can't work on that. If I thought my problem was just being crap at conversation with a potential SO/friend (which I am BTW), then I would just throw myself into more social situations.

 

[QuietDesperation]

^Less attractive people are probably on average less desirable overall,  achieve less due to low motivation, but some traits are more important than others. For men it's confidence/masculinity. This is difficult to improve since these is more more of an innate traits. That's why there's more men in this situation. Women just have to be social and reasonably likeable... so  that would be general social/conversation skills (?) I don't see why you can't work on that. If I thought my problem was just being crap at conversation with a potential SO/friend (which I am BTW), then I would just throw myself into more social situations.

I have good social and conversational skills. But I'm unattractive, awkward - and seen as nerdy, lowly, and undesirable. You'd have to see me to understand - even a pic would probably do it. I'm far lower than other women - maybe the bottom .0001%, haha. 

I'm polite, decent, well-dressed, wear full makeup, educated, cultured, knowledgeable, on-trend - but there's not much that can be done to hide an extremely undesirable face. I get severe stereotyping and stigmas due to other factors, in combination with my facial unattractiveness. 

For a female to be as extremely undesirable as me - it's multiple, and extreme stigmas. Most people have never seen or met anyone as undesirable as I am - and I'm hurt, ignored, treated rudely, and excluded where ever I go - so of course I know not to go anywhere anymore.

 

[mgill]

^Less attractive people are probably on average less desirable overall,  achieve less due to low motivation, but some traits are more important than others. For men it's confidence/masculinity. This is difficult to improve since these is more more of an innate traits. That's why there's more men in this situation. Women just have to be social and reasonably likeable... so  that would be general social/conversation skills (?) I don't see why you can't work on that. If I thought my problem was just being crap at conversation with a potential SO/friend (which I am BTW), then I would just throw myself into more social situations.

it is virtually impossible to get true confidence without having any success.  masculinity is will not suffice unless one also has the height & looks.  those of us without these invaluable characteristics are looked at as trying to overcompensate for our negative attributes.

---

^Less attractive people are probably on average less desirable overall,  achieve less due to low motivation, but some traits are more important than others. For men it's confidence/masculinity. This is difficult to improve since these is more more of an innate traits. That's why there's more men in this situation. Women just have to be social and reasonably likeable... so  that would be general social/conversation skills (?) I don't see why you can't work on that. If I thought my problem was just being crap at conversation with a potential SO/friend (which I am BTW), then I would just throw myself into more social situations.

I have good social and conversational skills. But I'm unattractive, awkward - and seen as nerdy, lowly, and undesirable. You'd have to see me to understand - even a pic would probably do it. I'm far lower than other women - maybe the bottom .0001%, haha. 

I'm polite, decent, well-dressed, wear full makeup, educated, cultured, knowledgeable, on-trend - but there's not much that can be done to hide an extremely undesirable face. I get severe stereotyping and stigmas due to other factors, in combination with my facial unattractiveness. 

For a female to be as extremely undesirable as me - it's multiple, and extreme stigmas. Most people have never seen or met anyone as undesirable as I am - and I'm hurt, ignored, treated rudely, and excluded where ever I go - so of course I know not to go anywhere anymore.

i would suggest you share a photo but since i would never do so myself it's not right to suggest it to others. as i said previously, women have the HUGE advantage of being able to become very attractive by getting into great physical shape.  i know and have seen many facially below average women with rocking bod's who are very popular & socially successful.  

on the other hand for men, having a great body, unless it is paired with height & a good face, means next to nothing.  kind of ironic how the one factor we have such control over is virtually meaningless when it comes to attracting females.

 

[QuietDesperation]

^Less attractive people are probably on average less desirable overall,  achieve less due to low motivation, but some traits are more important than others. For men it's confidence/masculinity. This is difficult to improve since these is more more of an innate traits. That's why there's more men in this situation. Women just have to be social and reasonably likeable... so  that would be general social/conversation skills (?) I don't see why you can't work on that. If I thought my problem was just being crap at conversation with a potential SO/friend (which I am BTW), then I would just throw myself into more social situations.

it is virtually impossible to get true confidence without having any success.  masculinity is will not suffice unless one also has the height & looks.  those of us without these invaluable characteristics are looked at as trying to overcompensate for our negative attributes.

---

^Less attractive people are probably on average less desirable overall,  achieve less due to low motivation, but some traits are more important than others. For men it's confidence/masculinity. This is difficult to improve since these is more more of an innate traits. That's why there's more men in this situation. Women just have to be social and reasonably likeable... so  that would be general social/conversation skills (?) I don't see why you can't work on that. If I thought my problem was just being crap at conversation with a potential SO/friend (which I am BTW), then I would just throw myself into more social situations.

I have good social and conversational skills. But I'm unattractive, awkward - and seen as nerdy, lowly, and undesirable. You'd have to see me to understand - even a pic would probably do it. I'm far lower than other women - maybe the bottom .0001%, haha. 

I'm polite, decent, well-dressed, wear full makeup, educated, cultured, knowledgeable, on-trend - but there's not much that can be done to hide an extremely undesirable face. I get severe stereotyping and stigmas due to other factors, in combination with my facial unattractiveness. 

For a female to be as extremely undesirable as me - it's multiple, and extreme stigmas. Most people have never seen or met anyone as undesirable as I am - and I'm hurt, ignored, treated rudely, and excluded where ever I go - so of course I know not to go anywhere anymore.

i would suggest you share a photo but since i would never do so myself it's not right to suggest it to others. as i said previously, women have the HUGE advantage of being able to become very attractive by getting into great physical shape.  i know and have seen many facially below average women with rocking bod's who are very popular & socially successful.  

on the other hand for men, having a great body, unless it is paired with height & a good face, means next to nothing.  kind of ironic how the one factor we have such control over is virtually meaningless when it comes to attracting females

---

How do you get rid of the multiple quotes - the stacking quotes? I just want to quote the last message by mgill,  but it's making me quote everything previously. This is one quirk about A Lonely Life that I haven't been able to figure out. 

@mgill Nah, that's ok, but a photo would speak a thousands words. If you share, maybe I'll share. But maybe I won't. I'm definitely a turnoff to the vast majority of people around the world. 

What's a rockin' bod that you're talking about?

I just have a typical slender and small frame. I don't really exercise, so I'm not toned or anything - but I'm slim and have a slight build. I have to emphasize, again, that I'm also well-groomed, and I make sure that my look is current and put-together. 

My problems with dating and making friends are very complex, and they're definitely not easily understood by others. There's only so much I can post on a site.

 

[ardour]

^Okay. Apologies. I got the impression you were average in appearance, that the problem was something else previously stated. I've known women from work who are every bit as much 'forever alone' as their male counterparts.

 

[QuietDesperation]

^Yes, I've also known women at work and elsewhere who were every bit as Forever Alone as their male counterparts. They could be a typically desirable ethnicity, too.

One coworker I knew had an odd look - a very big, round face and tall, awkward build. Her demeanor seemed normal, but understated. She seemed sweet, hard-working, and had a good head on her shoulders, but was far from the popular type. Also, I felt her look made her stuck on the bottom, in a low-paying job.

Another coworker had decent looks and a slender frame, and she was into fashion/makeup. But she had a weird, anxious, undesirable vibe that made her off-putting to everyone. I don't think she ever had any lasting friends. She's also been stuck in a low-level job that's beneath her (B.A. from state school) - while everyone hired after her was promoted.

Another woman I knew had an especially unattractive face and seemed like a "normie," but was very bland. She did finally get married to a guy better-looking than herself in her mid-40s. She seemed to be on the permanent "contract circuit" - never moved to permanent employee, no matter how good she was - while everyone hired after her was made a permanent employee.

Women are discriminated for their looks or demeanor probably more than men are.

At meetups, there are women who are ignored by everyone - and I'm one of them. That's why I don't go to meetups or other meet-and-greet events anymore.

I read on another site that ugly women at meetups are usually left to talk amongst themselves - but I don't even get that.

 

[mgill]

"How do you get rid of the multiple quotes - the stacking quotes? I just want to quote the last message by mgill,  but it's making me quote everything previously. This is one quirk about A Lonely Life that I haven't been able to figure out. 

@mgill Nah, that's ok, but a photo would speak a thousands words. If you share, maybe I'll share. But maybe I won't. I'm definitely a turnoff to the vast majority of people around the world. 

What's a rockin' bod that you're talking about?

I just have a typical slender and small frame. I don't really exercise, so I'm not toned or anything - but I'm slim and have a slight build. I have to emphasize, again, that I'm also well-groomed, and I make sure that my look is current and put-together. 

My problems with dating and making friends are very complex, and they're definitely not easily understood by others. There's only so much I can post on a site."


i have not figured it out either so i'll do it the hard way.  i am way too embarrassed about my poor facial appearance to share a photo so i guess that's out.  i don't mind being in them as long as i don't have to see them and even make an effort to avoid mirrors as much as possible as they all tend to cause me to get even more depressed.  

a rocking bod is one which is tight & toned.  i have seen many people who are thin but have no muscle tone (aka skinny fat).  personally, i find most women attractive as long as they are fit & feminine.  it sounds like getting really fit is something which you have not tried yet so perhaps it is something to consider.  a clean diet & weight training can do wonders and the worst that can happen is that you improve your overall health.  this is the one other area (other than personal finances) that i have done well in my life.  as pathetic as this is, i guess 2 is better than none.