What do you think of Chivalry or guys that are Chivalrous?

[Kenny]

Equal does not have to mean "the same".

Men and women can be equal without having to be "the same".

What I mean is that on the things that count: freedom of choice, freedom to work and educate yourselves, freedom of religion, freedom to be single if you want, freedom to choose to have children, freedom to spend your money on what you want, freedom to eat what you want, freedom to live where you want, etc...men and women should be equal. And, newsflash! They are!

However, we are not the same. Women have glorious vaginas that we seek to entice through several methods (because we are "equal", but not "the same") and those methods include buying dinner and opening doors.

Sophia,

as long you still have your right to vote after a date, I don't think the guy was trying to "hold you down" in a bad way, he was more than likely trying to "hold you down" in a good way.

 

[Sci-Fi]

One time I entered a building ahead of this girl I liked, so naturally I did the gentlemanly thing and rushed ahead and pushed the door shut behind me. Then watched though the glass as her jaw dropped as she saw me push a bench in front of the door so that way she couldn't get it open afterwards. lol.

.... she ended up becoming my girlfriend after that. Not sure how that worked. :S

LMAO! Limlim that is hilarious, and if that is all it takes to get a girlfriend I'm going to start doing that more often LOL

 

[nerdygirl]

Hmm. I think that saying women are weaker than men is one of those sweeping generalizations we try to avoid here. Are there some fragile ladies around? Sure. There are some delicate men, too.

Chivalry is about taking pride in being truthful, noble, compassionate, and just. A truly chivalrous man doesn't help a woman because he thinks, "Women are weak." He does it because he wants to help others. He would extend the same courtesy and respect to males that he would offer females.

A man who is only chivalrous to women is possibly being a little condescending. (Of course, many of us live in somewhat homophobic societies, and it could be that he would like to be just as helpful with men, but is afraid it will be taken the wrong way!)

---

One time I entered a building ahead of this girl I liked, so naturally I did the gentlemanly thing and rushed ahead and pushed the door shut behind me. Then watched though the glass as her jaw dropped as she saw me push a bench in front of the door so that way she couldn't get it open afterwards. lol.

.... she ended up becoming my girlfriend after that. Not sure how that worked. :S

LMAO! Limlim that is hilarious, and if that is all it takes to get a girlfriend I'm going to start doing that more often LOL

Do it in your Batman costume!

 

[Sci-Fi]

LMAO nerdygirl that sounds like a fun idea, but I might get some odd looks unless it was on halloween

 

[fortasse]

I was raised in the south. Men open doors for ladies. Cads don't.

I have never been offended by a man opening a door for me, or offering to carry something heavy or something of the sort. I do think it's rude for a guy to let a door close behind him if he sees me approaching not even two feet behind him. It's really not that hard to hold the door open for an extra five seconds. Goodness.

On the flip side, I have held doors open for both men and women before. Generally, if I try to hold a door open for a man, he will smile and take the door himself. I'm not sure if they find it amusing that a woman is trying to hold a door open for them, or if they are simply smiling because they appreciate the gesture.

 

[fortasse]

... I'm not sure why this double posted.

 

[Sci-Fi]

On the flip side, I have held doors open for both men and women before. Generally, if I try to hold a door open for a man, he will smile and take the door himself. I'm not sure if they find it amusing that a woman is trying to hold a door open for them, or if they are simply smiling because they appreciate the gesture.

Yeah, I've had that happen to me, never gave it much thought. I just smile because I appreciate the gesture. I find it nice when a woman "pays it forward", it's just a polite caring thing to do no matter what sex you are. Even thought these days a lot of places have automatic doors because we've become SO LAZY! Actually it just saves the glass on the doors from being rammed by the shopping carts.

---

Honestly I find it kind of sexy when a woman holds a door open for a man, makes me wonder what else she's willing to do.

LMAO!! KIDDING!!

 

[Kenny]

LMAO!! KIDDING!!

No you're not.

 

[jales]

this post made me laugh..

Equal does not have to mean "the same".

Men and women can be equal without having to be "the same".

What I mean is that on the things that count: freedom of choice, freedom to work and educate yourselves, freedom of religion, freedom to be single if you want, freedom to choose to have children, freedom to spend your money on what you want, freedom to eat what you want, freedom to live where you want, etc...men and women should be equal. And, newsflash! They are!

However, we are not the same. Women have glorious vaginas that we seek to entice through several methods (because we are "equal", but not "the same") and those methods include buying dinner and opening doors.

Sophia,

as long you still have your right to vote after a date, I don't think the guy was trying to "hold you down" in a bad way, he was more than likely trying to "hold you down" in a good way.

 

[fortasse]

Yeah, I've had that happen to me, never gave it much thought. I just smile because I appreciate the gesture. I find it nice when a woman "pays it forward", it's just a polite caring thing to do no matter what sex you are.

Good to know. Hopefully yours is the common thought pattern, and I'm only being paranoid when I think guys are internally laughing at me for holding doors open. lol

Even thought these days a lot of places have automatic doors because we've become SO LAZY!

Wrong. Automatic doors were created so people like me can pretend we have jedi powers that force the doors to open as we walk by.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Women are weaker!! And I really do not understand how people can not accept that. I open doors for anyone when I have the opportunity, but honestly if I see a guy open a door walk through and let it close behind him when someone like an elderly women or man is behind him.. I would think to myself (how unkind). I have rejected guys pretty badly after seeing things like that. (Well two guys that I can think of.. and I told them why I didn't really want to get to know them as well).

But back to my point.. women pretty much are weaker. During pregnancy for example.. lifting heavy objects can cause miscarriages and some studies imply that it affects your fertility even when not pregnant (it also affects male fertility but they can lift heavier things before an effect is seen). The average woman is weaker than the average man, so helping her carry things & open things is just sensible.

For something as simple as opening a door... as long as you are not busy I think that everyone should be able to do that for anyone. There are circumstances when you should even go out of your way to do it. If the person is very old, or has children, or is pregnant, or disabled, or just has a lot of things in their hand. But in general I think it is just the polite thing to do, regardless of the circumstances. Once the door is easy to open.

I know some doors are hard to open though, that happened to me last week, I was trying to get into a shop and I could not because the door was just waay to difficult to open. A random lady stopped and opened the door for me, she was a lot bigger than me.. I was grateful .

I am NOT weak. Thank you very much. I take offense that there are women like you who accept being the little woman who can't open a jar by herself. If you look back at all the honeysuckle I had to do in my life, and all the honeysuckle I STILL do, you would not think I was weak. It's women like you who set humanity back centuries. Just because you settled for being weak and pointless other than to appear dainty and quaint, doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

Now I'm mad that people actually think like this. Before, I could pass it off as people just trying to live roles, but to think there are people who actually really think this way blows my mind.

 

[Kenny]

I am NOT weak. Thank you very much. I take offense that there are women like you who accept being the little woman who can't open a jar by herself. If you look back at all the honeysuckle I had to do in my life, and all the honeysuckle I STILL do, you would not think I was weak. It's women like you who set humanity back centuries. Just because you settled for being weak and pointless other than to appear dainty and quaint, doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

Now I'm mad that people actually think like this. Before, I could pass it off as people just trying to live roles, but to think there are people who actually really think this way blows my mind.

I don't think Jales was saying "weak of character", Vanilla. I think she was saying typically "physically weaker" (aka - not as strong) when it comes to lifting things and doing manual labor?

How much can you bench press?

 

[jales]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans#Strength.2C_power_and_muscle_mass

I'm not sure that you really read my post
But I basically said women are weaker than men on average. It has nothing to do with going back in time.. it's just science.

This book is also good reading if you dont believe the wiki article... Honestly if you think women are not weaker than men.. read it. It's not a bad book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=x1...s human anatomy&lr&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

Women are weaker!! And I really do not understand how people can not accept that. I open doors for anyone when I have the opportunity, but honestly if I see a guy open a door walk through and let it close behind him when someone like an elderly women or man is behind him.. I would think to myself (how unkind). I have rejected guys pretty badly after seeing things like that. (Well two guys that I can think of.. and I told them why I didn't really want to get to know them as well).

But back to my point.. women pretty much are weaker. During pregnancy for example.. lifting heavy objects can cause miscarriages and some studies imply that it affects your fertility even when not pregnant (it also affects male fertility but they can lift heavier things before an effect is seen). The average woman is weaker than the average man, so helping her carry things & open things is just sensible.

For something as simple as opening a door... as long as you are not busy I think that everyone should be able to do that for anyone. There are circumstances when you should even go out of your way to do it. If the person is very old, or has children, or is pregnant, or disabled, or just has a lot of things in their hand. But in general I think it is just the polite thing to do, regardless of the circumstances. Once the door is easy to open.

I know some doors are hard to open though, that happened to me last week, I was trying to get into a shop and I could not because the door was just waay to difficult to open. A random lady stopped and opened the door for me, she was a lot bigger than me.. I was grateful .

I am NOT weak. Thank you very much. I take offense that there are women like you who accept being the little woman who can't open a jar by herself. If you look back at all the honeysuckle I had to do in my life, and all the honeysuckle I STILL do, you would not think I was weak. It's women like you who set humanity back centuries. Just because you settled for being weak and pointless other than to appear dainty and quaint, doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

Now I'm mad that people actually think like this. Before, I could pass it off as people just trying to live roles, but to think there are people who actually really think this way blows my mind.

 

[Callie]

Women aren't weak.... Ain't no **** way in hell a man could push a baby out. Ain't no **** way in hell a man could do half the honeysuckle we do.

As far as chivalry goes. It's dying. Plain and simple... but when I see it, it kinda makes me glad to see that it might still exist. I'd like to see more of it

 

[VanillaCreme]

I don't give a honeysuckle what a book or a website says. You can be weak if you want to, Jales. I'm not. And I dare anyone to step to my face and call me weak. They won't make it out alive.

 

[fortasse]

Women aren't weak.... Ain't no **** way in hell a man could push a baby out. Ain't no **** way in hell a man could do half the honeysuckle we do.

If a man had the right organs and openings in his body, I'm pretty sure he could give birth to a baby. The fact that a man does not have the right make-up to give birth does not make a woman stronger.

In fact, half of the deaths of women throughout history are from child birth. 50% mortality rate over something that is supposed to make us appear stronger doesn't seem like a very strong argument to me.

Fact is, if you take the top male and female athlete in a particular sport, the man is always superior to the woman. A male in peak shape is going to be stronger than a woman in peak shape.

Sure, you might be stronger than the average male, but that doesn't make you stronger than the strongest male. I really don't see why women should be offended by science. Why should it bug a woman if men are built to be stronger? Especially when the average male doesn't take advantage of this fact anyways, and allows himself to grow old and flabby. If you want to be able to defend yourself against the average male, take a self-defense class. It's really not that big a deal.

I don't care if men are stronger than me. I don't care if men hold doors open for me. I don't care if my male friends like to tell me to go make them a sammich. I'm confident enough in my body to not be threatened by any sort of misnamed misogynistic tendencies (especially when a man is not attempting to be misogynistic).

 

[SophiaGrace]

Okay.

Here's another act of chivalry that's not as black and white (in terms of politeness, in helping someone with something heavy, or holding open a door).

pulling a chair out for a girl.
paying for dinner.
Walking on the side of the sidewalk nearest the street.

1) This is not politeness, a girl can pull out her own chair. This is deference, almost a servile move (and i dislike the implication of inequality in it.) It could also just be a show "this is my girl." I get that we all want to protect those we love, but, pulling out a chair for a girl seems nonsensical to me.

2.) I'd rather not feel indebted to a man though for dinner. You know? I would like to pay my own way so I don't feel indebted to him. Even if he swears up and down that he's just doing it to be chivalrous, it still gives the feeling of indebtedness.

3.) I"m sorry, I want to protect the ones I love as much as they want to protect me. I don't understand why it is considered more polite for a man to risk his life, rather than I risking mine.

 

[Callie]

Um, yeah, I have no problem kicking a man's ass and defending myself, thanks

OH and btw. No, a man could not do nearly as well pushing a child out as a woman could. Believe me, I've done it twice WITHOUT drugs.

 

[fortasse]

Now I'm mad that people actually think like this. Before, I could pass it off as people just trying to live roles, but to think there are people who actually really think this way blows my mind.

And I'm mad that some women don't seem to have the mental wherewithal to be able to separate statements such as "The average male is stronger than the average female" from statements such as "women are weak, weak, weak."

It would seem the reason some males think women are not capable of the same intellectual standards as themselves is because of reactions such as your own to a rather benign, and completely true, statement from jales. I have a male friend that thinks women should not be president because they are too emotional. Your response does nothing more than give credence to his belief.

 

[SophiaGrace]

However, we are not the same. Women have glorious vaginas that we seek to entice through several methods (because we are "equal", but not "the same") and those methods include buying dinner and opening doors.

You have shown your true intentions in this post. I would not date a man that had these intentions. You are not being polite to me out of a sense of moral decency, you want in my pants.

Furthermore this implies a disrespect to me, since, you have your own agenda, and are willing to manipulate me into fitting them. Manipulation is done when a party is disregardful of how the other person feels. When you do this, it shows a lack of caring for others well-being and being willing to harm them, by bypassing their boundaries for your own ends.

*shakes head*