What do you think of Chivalry or guys that are Chivalrous?

[Callie]

I'm a bit in a rush, b/c I'm about to leave to go eat out, so excuse my post if it makes no sense.

You seem to be purposefully misunderstanding Jales just so you can take offense. You have just admitted yourself that you know lifting heavy objects can be a cause of miscarriage. As such, it was pointless of you to contradict Jales' statement if you knew it to be true. Also, the point of Jales' post was not to tell you what can cause miscarriage, and I assume you are not *****, so I assume you knew that was not the point of her post. If my assumptions are correct, then the next logical step in this sequence would have been for you to figure out why Jales mentioned the fact that heavy lifting can cause miscarriages. The point was to show that women are inherently weaker than men.

The point was not to say pregnant women should not lift heavy objects.
The point was not to say women are weak and helpless creatures.
The point was not to cause offense.

The fact that you seem to be misunderstanding her point in order to bear some sort of offense that was never intended and never even present in her post makes one wonder if perhaps you simply have a vendetta against women who might have old-fashioned ideals about feminine strength(or lack thereof).

I'm not misunderstanding anything. And btw, the point I was trying to make is that ANYTHING AND/OR NOTHING CAN CAUSE A MISCARRIAGE!!! Yes, even lifting a ******* glass. The whole thing about lifting **** while you are pregnant is that if you lift wrong, you could dislodge the placenta from the uterine wall. This could happen all by itself to. There is no telling exactly WHY a m/c happens, there is just speculation and a "educated guess."

And I don't get offended quite that easily, takes a hell of a lot more than that to offend me.

And why exactly are you speaking FOR her? Is she you? No? didn't think so, so you can't possibly know exactly what she meant.

 

[Limlim]

LOUD NOISES!!

 

[nerdygirl]

2) @nerdygirl.. you simply do not know what you are talking about and this is especially upsetting to me because it has just become personal. I have sister who went through the same thing you say is not medically proven...

I dont really want to talk about it (at least not if no one wants to know) but if anyone want to know more about it I will tell the story.

and also to nerdygirl.. you clearly know nothing about my opinions because i do not believe that men are supposed to be anything else but themselves!

I'm sorry you feel that I don't know what I'm talking about, and that you feel this has become personal.

It honestly has not been medically proven that lifting a heavy item can cause a miscarriage. I have been pregnant more than once. One time, we were relocating and I needed to move furniture. Another time, my job involved heavy lifting. Both times, my doctors said it was perfectly safe. Pregnant people work in the medical field and lift patients who weigh hundreds of pounds. I've known nervous fathers-to-be who tried to get doctors to tell women they couldn't pick up heavy things, and the doctors laughed at them.

What has been proven is that lifting something heavy improperly can get you injured, regardless of gender. While one is pregnant, it is harder to do it properly.

As for the other part... I may have misunderstood some of your posts, or perhaps the posts I'm thinking of were written by other people and I merely thought you'd written them. If this is what happened, I offer my most heartfelt apologies.

This has certainly strayed from the original topic of the thread, and I apologize to Soph for that. I will not be engaging in any more off-topic discussion during the course of this thread.

 

[Kenny]

For the record, I am absolutely astonished at the level of vitriol and anger being directed at Jales and Fortasse in this thread.

Jales: gave an opinion, saying that women are physically weaker than men (this is GENERALLY true)

Fortasse: has spoken nothing but the truth, and has refused to be browbeaten in an emotionally motivated bitchy attack (this is honorable)

Just calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Somebody needs to sedate and corral the attack dogs here.

 

[SophiaGrace]

LOUD NOISES!!

LOL

 

[nerdygirl]

Uhm. While I was typing my last post, I was multi-tasking so it took a while. Apparently, a bunch of people were like, "RAWR!!!" and I'm like, "?!?!"

This one time, a guy pulled my chair out for me. I didn't realize he'd done it, and pulled out my own seat. I was already sitting when I saw him sheepishly holding a chair, with his friend snickering at him. I don't think he did it because he felt in any way superior. It was just courtesy. To him, it was probably just as normal as holding a door open.

 

[Callie]

I had a guy hold a chair out for me once. But he was the damn waiter, so it was his job (It was a nicer restaurant). Other than that, Yes, I've had guys hold doors for me, but that's about the extent of it.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Lifting heavy objects while pregnant doesn't definitely cause a miscarriage. You're slow if you think that.

And I'm not weak in any way. I don't have to bench press to be stronger than a man. I've proven more than once that I can hold things, lift things, and move things that a dude around me couldn't.

 

[fortasse]

I'm not misunderstanding anything. And btw, the point I was trying to make is that ANYTHING AND/OR NOTHING CAN CAUSE A MISCARRIAGE!!!

Trying to prove anything can cause a miscarriage is still missing the point of what Jales was trying to say.

If, in your attempt to prove anything can cause a miscarriage, you are trying to make a point that Jales' example was moot, you are doing a poor job of proving that point.

For example, all it takes is a simple "Anything can cause a miscarriage, and it is not proven that lifting a heavy object will cause a miscarriage. As such, your attempt to use miscarriages-by-lifting-heavy-objects as an example of women being weaker than men is moot."

It does not seem like you are attempting to say that, so I find your comments about miscarriage rather irrelevant. If I am misunderstanding you, and that was indeed the point of your posts, I apologize for not being able to properly interpret your posts.

And I don't get offended quite that easily, takes a hell of a lot more than that to offend me.

You could have fooled me. If not offended, then you certainly sound miffed.

And why exactly are you speaking FOR her? Is she you? No? didn't think so, so you can't possibly know exactly what she meant.

If A makes a rather obvious comment, and B becomes confused, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with C explaining to B what A was obviously trying to say.

I don't have to be Jales to know that the point of her post was not about demeaning women or labeling them as weak.

I respond, because I am the sort of person that likes to defend people when I feel like they are being wrongfully attacked due to silly misunderstandings. I am used to being attacked for such purposes, and so perhaps I have a hero complex where I want to try to protect people I think are experiencing what I used to experience all the time. Do you mean to tell me you never come to someone's defense when you think they have been wrongfully attacked?

~~
thanks for the defense, Kenny.

 

[VanillaCreme]

I don't have to be Jales to know that the point of her post was not about demeaning women or labeling them as weak.

She SAID it, dude. She thought it, thinks it, typed it, wrote it... However you want to put it.

 

[Callie]

M'kay, you make no damn sense at all. And no, I'm not offended or "miffed." I simply don't like people going off about something when they are clearly wrong about it. Believe me, I know more about it than you.
Stop speaking for others, if they can't get across what they are trying to say, they shouldn't say it at all.

Now I believe nerdygirl had this thread turned back toward CHIVALRY, so stop.

 

[Kenny]

Logic FTW

Postulates
and Givens
and Conclusions

It's beautiful.

 

[Callie]

Women are weaker!! And I really do not understand how people can not accept that.

 

[fortasse]

so stop.

okay

 

[Kenny]

Women are weaker!! And I really do not understand how people can not accept that.

Jales did say that in reference to a comparison of physical strength between the genders. She did not, however, intend to send the message that women are inferior or "weaker" in all aspects of their beings or ANY aspects (other than physical strength) of their beings as compared to men, as you have eluded to. If you have proof that Jales said (or implied) this anywhere in this thread, produce it now please.



The fact still remains, men are physically stronger. Frankly, I think a couple people in this thread are owed an apology. Here's a clue. I'm not one, but neither are you.

 

[Callie]

Frankly, I don't give a damn what you think.

 

[Kenny]

Frankly, I don't give a damn what you think.

The feeling is completely mutual.

Now, about that proof that Jales is a misogynist and woman-hater?

Jales and Fortasse have had their words twisted and then been attacked with them in this thread, the least we can do is ask for accountability?

Or should they apologize to you for the bullying you've dished out?

 

[fortasse]

On the case of chivalry, I think that sometimes when women express distaste for chivalry, this is a sign of misandry. Certainly this is not the case with all women. It is the case with some women though. They become so caught up in hating all things male that when a man is simply trying to be kind, the woman takes it as a personal affront on her character, and lashes out in a completely unnecessary tirade at the poor man.

I don't think this is the case with any of the women that have posted in this particular thread. At least, that is not the impression I have received from anyone (that they're misandrists), but I do believe it is the case with some women in this world. It's rather unfortunate for the poor guy that gets caught opening a door for such a woman.

 

[nerdygirl]

Hmm. It seems to me that the only apology that actually needed to be said was said. By me. An attempt was made to return the thread to its former dignity. Perhaps we could resume that effort now?

 

[Kataphractos]

Ladies, some of us guys were raised to be polite (aka chivalrous) to women (such as opening the door, all that) and it was ingrained in us from when we were kids. If it really offends you so much, then maybe you should take a few seconds to think about it; the guy's parents taught him to treat women with respect, they could have easily not done anything at all or taught him the absolute wrong things, for example that women should be subservient to men (that's still taught to some kids by 'well-meaning' parents in the U.S., you know). And looking at today's culture, if anything, you should say a silent Thank You to the guy's parents for raising their kid right, even if his politeness does get on your nerves.