Fights - what is your limit?

[Pike Creek]

For those in relationships or who have been...what do you consider healthy fighting? I'm not naive enough to think that couples don't fight...but what is acceptable, what is not? What is/was your limit? I'm just curious because I'm a recovering doormat and I can't judge if I'm letting too much slide or not. I know if there are more bad times than good, it's a sign to move on...but sometimes I get too sentimental, or maybe feel pity or guilt...and my mind can't figure out if it's time to leave or not.

I'm not a fighter at all. I tend to let people walk all over me then blow up when I've had enough and my limits have been pushed beyond tolerable. That's when friendships and relationships end for good.

I realize that everyone reaches their own limit and has their own standards. I certainly am not talking about physical abuse...but sometimes I think that the verbal and emotional is a little over the top...I know that's cryptic, I was avoiding the word "abuse" because I don't think it's that bad in my situation, I think it's a lack of maturity, but I know he tends to "play to hurt" at times and asking him to stop doesn't work...I guess that reading others' opinions would be some food for thought. Even if you haven't been in a relationship, what are your standards? I used to think I'd walk out if x, y or z happened, but in reality that's not the case at all.

 

[stork_error]

For those in relationships or who have been...what do you consider healthy fighting? I'm not naive enough to think that couples don't fight...but what is acceptable, what is not? What is/was your limit? I'm just curious because I'm a recovering doormat and I can't judge if I'm letting too much slide or not. I know if there are more bad times than good, it's a sign to move on...but sometimes I get too sentimental, or maybe feel pity or guilt...and my mind can't figure out if it's time to leave or not.

I'm not a fighter at all. I tend to let people walk all over me then blow up when I've had enough and my limits have been pushed beyond tolerable. That's when friendships and relationships end for good.

I realize that everyone reaches their own limit and has their own standards. I certainly am not talking about physical abuse...but sometimes I think that the verbal and emotional is a little over the top...I know that's cryptic, I was avoiding the word "abuse" because I don't think it's that bad in my situation, I think it's a lack of maturity, but I know he tends to "play to hurt" at times and asking him to stop doesn't work...I guess that reading others' opinions would be some food for thought. Even if you haven't been in a relationship, what are your standards? I used to think I'd walk out if x, y or z happened, but in reality that's not the case at all.

I'm the wrong person to provide advice as Im fully intolerant of any BS with relationships now days.

 

[Badjedidude]

There doesn't have to be any fights.

Do healthy relationships have conflict and disagreement? You betcha. And these things can be discussed in depth. Couples can have open, honest, communication and conversation. Does that mean the conflict will be resolved? No, not always. Sometimes the gaps between two people simply can't be crossed. Sometimes an agreement can't be reached.

But never is there a good reason to resort to yelling, pettiness, bitter retorts, insults, enforced periods of silence... none of that, as far as I can see, is conducive to a healthy relationship.

You can have a peaceful relationship, even when there are disagreements.

As an aside, if your partner is "playing to hurt," sometimes, then you need to let him know in no uncertain terms that it's wounding you and that you believe it may be harmful to your relationship. I can assure you, if he cares about you then explaining it to him will be beneficial for him just as much as it is for you. If he also wants a healthy relationship, then he needs to be intensely interested in hearing your concerns and in correcting behavior that may be harmful to the relationship. Part of your responsibility (if your goal is to have a good relationship) is to offer criticism when warranted.. and part of his is to hear it.

As I said... it's about honesty and openness.

 

[Pike Creek]

I'm the wrong person to provide advice as Im fully intolerant of any BS with relationships now days.

A balance between fully intolerant and doormat is what I'm trying to find.

---

As an aside, if your partner is "playing to hurt," sometimes, then you need to let him know in no uncertain terms that it's wounding you and that you believe it may be harmful to your relationship. I can assure you, if he cares about you then explaining it to him will be beneficial for him just as much as it is for you. If he also wants a healthy relationship, then he needs to be intensely interested in hearing your concerns and in correcting behavior that may be harmful to the relationship. Part of your responsibility (if your goal is to have a good relationship) is to offer criticism when warranted.. and part of his is to hear it.

As I said... it's about honesty and openness.

My online-friend said this to me recently: "If you tell him that certain behaviours that he does are hurting you, and if he keeps repeating the behaviours when you disagree, if you forgive him continually without consequence, you are the one responsible for "teaching" him that he can keep doing it."

This is so childish and primal. Not what she said, but the idea of it. I don't want to be in a relationship to teach someone how to treat another with respect and love. I understand one or two mistakes, nobody is perfect and people have to get to know each other, but repeatedly doing things that he knows hurts me? I don't want to resort to ultimatums and threats...but then, if I feel that I have to resort to that, it tells me that my partner is not particularly interested in changing those aspects that really do hurt me, dismissing my feelings and not taking me seriously.

My goal is to have an honest, open, loving and mature, long-lasting relationship. I've learned from the past to be gentle and calm when disagreeing, but he's the opposite, very aggressive and hurtful - makes me all the more submissive and I walk away, but I always seem to be the one trying to make things right after, even if he was the one to cause all the hurt and strife.

I guess I'm tired of it, but at the same time growing a little apathetic and not caring if he stays or goes. I don't like that it's reaching that point.

 

[Badjedidude]

^^^I know that in your first post in this thread, you said you were avoiding the word abuse, but this:

...but repeatedly doing things that he knows hurts me? I don't want to resort to ultimatums and threats...but then, if I feel that I have to resort to that, it tells me that my partner is not particularly interested in changing those aspects that really do hurt me, dismissing my feelings and not taking me seriously.

My goal is to have an honest, open, loving and mature, long-lasting relationship. I've learned from the past to be gentle and calm when disagreeing, but he's the opposite, very aggressive and hurtful - makes me all the more submissive and I walk away, but I always seem to be the one trying to make things right after, even if he was the one to cause all the hurt and strife.

I guess I'm tired of it, but at the same time growing a little apathetic and not caring if he stays or goes. I don't like that it's reaching that point.

...sounds like abuse to me.

*shrug*

 

[Ymir]

This does sound abusive to me as well.

That aside, unfortunately, Pike, people we love don't have manuals on how to deal with us, we have to show our partners the way AND reinforce it if they are not getting the point. They might not even do it on purpose. Say, if your SO isn't doing the behavior you mentioned just to upset you, which is a possibility, maybe he just doesn't know it hurts you that bad, because (as I understood it) you keep letting it slide with no serious warning.

Does it suck having to "teach" people? Yeah. Is it necessary? Also.

 

[Pike Creek]

Yeah, it sucks. I do let things slide, in that I don't always react to his behaviour. He swears a lot, I really hate that. He used to swear at me during arguments and when things cooled down, we forgave each other and things were typically lovey-dovey again, I told him with all vulnerability that when he swears at me, it reminds me of my abusive upbringing and especially my father who used to demean me unbearably, and although I did 9 years of therapy, that fear is always there and it makes me feel worthless. I was so honest about all that, I don't expect him to change overnight, but he doesn't even make an effort anymore. He always promises not to do it again, but that's where I let things slide. I let him break the promises and continue to forgive him.

I know some would say it's because he's young. But not all "young people" are immature and aggressive. I have the benefit of being in my 40's and have experienced a lot, not so hot-headed, more relaxed and looking for peaceful solutions rather than all out angry feuds...that could be my justification for letting it slide, but gosh it hurts so much.

---

Update: I just tried to have a mature discussion and typically it all came down to it being my fault. He said he was just humouring me in the past by saying that he won't swear at me anymore. I told him again that it hurts me when he swears at me and he says I need to love him for who he is because cursing for him is meaningless.

Objective advice please? Am I being too hard about not wanting him to swear? I just told him to leave by the end of the month. I feel like I'm overreacting, but maybe that's the doormat in me.

 

[ringwood]

Cursing for *him* is meaningless....but it's not for you and that's the crucial point here, isn't it? No, you're not being a doormat and you're not overreacting - you are discussing your feelings in a rational, mature way and if he respected you at all, he would make a concerted effort to stop the swearing...instead of just 'humouring' you.

 

[Badjedidude]

^^^I won't tell you what you should do, but I'll tell you what I would do.

I'd wave goodbye to his pretty little butt as it walked away.

Not that I'm into young men's butts. Totally not.

But really... it sounds like he's not willing to budge even the slightest bit, only pays lip service to you in order to get you to shut up when you bring him legitimate concerns, repeatedly swears at you when asked not to.. He expects you to "love him for who he is?" Why can't he return the favor?

...I don't think you're overreacting. I think getting away from this guy may be a wise decision.

*shrug*

 

[ringwood]

^^^I won't tell you what you should do, but I'll tell you what I would do.

I'd wave goodbye to his pretty little butt as it walked away.

Not that I'm into young men's butts. Totally not.

But really... it sounds like he's not willing to budge even the slightest bit, only pays lip service to you in order to get you to shut up when you bring him legitimate concerns, repeatedly swears at you when asked not to.. He expects you to "love him for who he is?" Why can't he return the favor?

...I don't think you're overreacting. I think getting away from this guy may be a wise decision.

*shrug*

I echo this ^^ sorry, Pike Creek, been there, done that. Don't waste any more time second-guessing yourself. Trust what your heart is saying, as painful as that may be. Hugs, hang in there. Message me anytime...

 

[Pike Creek]

Thank you Ringwood, thank you Badjedidude. Why are people so stubborn to "keep their ways" rather than try to budge a little to keep a happy relationship? Rhetorical question I guess. I had the break up talk, all the while him ignoring me, though I know he heard me. I was nice about it, told him I'd help him out if he needed it, that maybe if we don't agree on such important issues, we should move on and find other people with similar relationship values. Silent wall on his part...I told him I loved him, wanted to spend my life with him, but that I couldn't handle the way he degrades me etc...I was so calm that I surprised myself. I told him I'd sleep in my office, to take some time alone and think about what he wanted. If he wanted out, then I did too. Honestly I'd be floored if this wasn't over. I'm not the type to ask "what if" so I'm assuming it's over. Tonight was our one year and a half mark and we were supposed to have a nice romantic evening, I had dinner all planned. But after the swearing episode, I guess I knew that wasn't happening!

 

[Solivagant]

He expects you to "love him for who he is?" Why can't he return the favor?

^ Exactly what I was thinking.

I agree with the previous posters. It sounds like he is not respecting you. I've had people like this in my life, and it eventually wore me down and sapped every bit of energy I had. I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Pike Creek]

He expects you to "love him for who he is?" Why can't he return the favor?

^ Exactly what I was thinking.

I agree with the previous posters. It sounds like he is not respecting you. I've had people like this in my life, and it eventually wore me down and sapped every bit of energy I had. I wouldn't recommend it.

That's why I broke up with him tonight. I mentioned that it was disrespect but he justified himself stubbornly by saying it's "who he is" and "I won't ever change"...okay my love, you won't change, but I won't stay. Terrible waste, all he has to do is agree not to swear at me out of anger, but he'd prefer to be "right" than continue our relationship...sad...

 

[Ymir]

He expects you to "love him for who he is?" Why can't he return the favor?

^ Exactly what I was thinking.

I agree with the previous posters. It sounds like he is not respecting you. I've had people like this in my life, and it eventually wore me down and sapped every bit of energy I had. I wouldn't recommend it.

That's why I broke up with him tonight. I mentioned that it was disrespect but he justified himself stubbornly by saying it's "who he is" and "I won't ever change"...okay my love, you won't change, but I won't stay. Terrible waste, all he has to do is agree not to swear at me out of anger, but he'd prefer to be "right" than continue our relationship...sad...

IMO you did the right thing, Pike. He's really not respecting you at all and coming up with "explanations" to get away with it. You are better off without.

 

[ladyforsaken]

Pike, I think if someone is not willing to treat you better even after knowing how it makes you feel, it just goes to show he doesn't care enough about you and the relationship. I think you did the right thing, and I agree with what the other posters have said in this thread.

*hugs*

 

[Peaches]

For those in relationships or who have been...what do you consider healthy fighting? I'm not naive enough to think that couples don't fight...but what is acceptable, what is not? What is/was your limit? I'm just curious because I'm a recovering doormat and I can't judge if I'm letting too much slide or not. I know if there are more bad times than good, it's a sign to move on...but sometimes I get too sentimental, or maybe feel pity or guilt...and my mind can't figure out if it's time to leave or not.

I'm not a fighter at all. I tend to let people walk all over me then blow up when I've had enough and my limits have been pushed beyond tolerable. That's when friendships and relationships end for good.

I realize that everyone reaches their own limit and has their own standards. I certainly am not talking about physical abuse...but sometimes I think that the verbal and emotional is a little over the top...I know that's cryptic, I was avoiding the word "abuse" because I don't think it's that bad in my situation, I think it's a lack of maturity, but I know he tends to "play to hurt" at times and asking him to stop doesn't work...I guess that reading others' opinions would be some food for thought. Even if you haven't been in a relationship, what are your standards? I used to think I'd walk out if x, y or z happened, but in reality that's not the case at all.

I'm the wrong person to provide advice as Im fully intolerant of any BS with relationships now days.

same here, and this is why I am splendidly alone I guess

 

[WildernessWildChild]

I walked away from what could've been a promising relationship- unfortunately her insecurity and need to control things led to a lot of tension and I'm not the type who can be walked on. From my point of view no fighting is desirable, it simply takes away from growing into each other.

 

[lifestream]

Sounds like you made absolutely the right decision, Pike Creek.

People who can never admit they're wrong and that everyone else is the problem will only drag you right down with them. You got out with your dignity intact. I know you're probably feeling a lot of pain right now, but the fact that you ended the relationship before it really became a detriment to your emotional and mental health is a really encouraging sign. He may not be capable of changing but you've shown that you definitely are.

 

[Pike Creek]

He's staying with his sister for a week and we agreed on no contact. He's coming back a week from tomorrow so we can talk about whether or not we can salvage our relationship. I wrote him a letter about everything and he took it with him so I guess that will help him either understand completely or make him want to be single again. It's so hard because there is a lot of love. This is the hardest thing I've ever done. But I'm not budging on my standards anymore, that's for sure.

 

[TheSkaFish]

He sounds very immature indeed, and not in a good way. Kudos to you for sticking to your guns. I don't like getting sworn at and name-called either.