If your your an average guy, things suck, and theres nothing you can do

[vng2015]

1) There is very much discrimination against men in Modern Western Word. Nothing to do with dating. There is also a lot of hate towards men on Social Media. Any perceived Misogyny gets strong push back. Misandry up to celebration of COVID primarily affecting men is gets hundreds of thousands of likes on Twitter.

2) Being a 157 kg 53 yo male, I am not looking for dates.

3) On this forum I am primarily looking for (mostly male) platonic friends with whom I can commiserate on Zoom or Jitsi Meet.

 

[vng2015]

Them evil womens only want hot and/or rich guys.

I would never blame anyone -- men or women for not choosing to be someone else's partner. I do not blame women for wanting men far more successful then me. Likewise, most men want pretty women under 50yo.


In most of the World, sex work is legal, but not in USA.

 

[Wrong]

We live in a society where women have been built up and men relentlessly torn down. It's gotten so bad women have essentially become untouchable. If they are 300lbs or post provocative pictures of themselves on social media society is not allowed to question them. Instead they are told to accept them. Meanwhile a guy with a 'dad bod' is mercilessly trashed. This has led to a spoiled princess syndrome where most women believe they are equal to or better then men at everything. In their mind this makes men disposable.

Naturally women still desire a degree of male validation but that can easily be found on social media. This leaves men seeking female validation from women who are his physical and social equal. But he can't get it because those women get their validation online and don't need to get it from him.

This has given rise to the bitter incel community which is at historic highs. The common criticism of incels is that these men think they are entitled to sex. Common critiques are for these men to improve themselves and stop whining. Such responses are typical misandry you see on a daily basis. When men have problems, they are simply told to shut up and pull ther boot straps up and deal with it.

Think for a second that an incel has to endure. He's constantly told by society and media what a loser he is for not having a girlfriend or sex, not to mention his natural tendencies for wanting love from the opposite sex. So a significant portion of his self worth is tied up with female validation. When women, even those equal to him in status and physical looks ignore him because they get their validation from social media, this can be devastating. It's like an eco system that has been thrown out of balance and because men, not women are getting the raw deal nobody cares.

Women wonder where all the good men have gone when in reality they've set their expectations too high. They believe, due to the negative portrayal of men in the media and entertainment, and the inflation of their ego by feminism, that they deserve more then they really do. This leads them to frustration when they can't secure a Chad and only have normies and incels as legitimate options. This leads the princess to ponder where all the good men went.

Sometime after 30 when the wall starts to take effect they suddenly find Chads won't even hook up with them for one night. At this point they either keep up profiles on tinder etc for a steady flow of male validation with no intention of every legitimately responding to the normies and incels, or they become cat ladies because they feel no man is good enough for them.

As an average guy I wish I could ignore my desire for female validation. But I can't. It's in my DNA and constantly being shamed by society and the media for being single and a virgin makes it worse.

And there's nothing anyone can do about it

heavens to betsy, you're an honest to god incel? i mean unironically?

i'm not saying, i'm asking?

 

[TheRealCallie]

I would never blame anyone -- men or women for not choosing to be someone else's partner. I do not blame women for wanting men far more successful then me. Likewise, most men want pretty women under 50yo.


In most of the World, sex work is legal, but not in USA.

Just to be clear, I was mostly being sarcastic. Of course ALL men don't feel that way, but several of them here say nothing else.

Also, sex work IS actually legal in the US. There are like a dozen or so brothels in Nevada where it is legal.

 

[user 139760]

Just to be clear, I was mostly being sarcastic. Of course ALL men don't feel that way, but several of them here say nothing else.

Also, sex work IS actually legal in the US. There are like a dozen or so brothels in Nevada where it is legal.

...for research purpose...WHERE exactly in Nevada?

 

[TheRealCallie]

...for research purpose...WHERE exactly in Nevada?

Vegas, honey, just go to Vegas

 

[TheDude76]

Wait... Eyeliner? I was crushing on this guy about 2 years ago that I thought wore eyeliner. He has a blue eye and a green eye about my age and rides a badass Triumph. I kept seeing him at the same store. I finally decided to chat him up. Turns out it wasn't eyeliner, it was soot from his job at the railyard. He would wipe his face off after work but the stuff around his eyes didn't come completely off until he got home and showered. Anyway, super cool guy we hang out together, ride together occasionally, but he is too fragile for me. I told him to grow a pair but he knows how I am and isn't offended. There I go again rambling.

He works at a railyard and he’s too fragile for you?

 

[TheDude76]

To the OP I can only say accept your perceived faults, and take the time to explore your interests. Even though the company of a really hip woman is a valid wish in life, if she’s not there, she’s not there. Better to spend time on your own interests and leave dating for later than to date a woman who has nothing but her looks. I don’t know what age you are, but now that I’m approaching the age where women are less likely to tell me during a date that their clock is ticking (it really happened), they seem a whole lot more interested in who a guy is, and are much more accepting. Knowing what I know now, I never would have bothered dating women during their “baby crazy” years.

 

[user 139760]

Vegas, honey, just go to Vegas

View attachment 5763

Ow.

In response to the OP, if you're an average guy, things do NOT suck...which is the problem.

 

[Claudia1794]

He works at a railyard and he’s too fragile for you?

Yes, he is needy and lacks confidence in himself because he was with women that took advantage of him. I’m not good with making people feel better about themselves I feel like that is their responsibility. I can be a bit insensitive at times. He and I are friends and we like it that way. He is fragile emotionally. I am not the type of person that would benefit him romantically. As friends we work. His physical work at the railroad has nothing to do with his emotional state. He’s sexy as hell, has all kinds of interests and can basically fix anything but he has been honeysuckle on by honeysuckle women. He needs a good compassionate, sensitive woman. I am not that woman. It would be selfish of me to try to form a romantic relationship with him when I know that I can’t be the type of person he needs. I value him as a friend and try to help him build up his confidence and warn him of those women that seem like they will damage him more.

 

[TheDude76]

Yes, he is needy and lacks confidence in himself because he was with women that took advantage of him. I’m not good with making people feel better about themselves I feel like that is their responsibility. I can be a bit insensitive at times. He and I are friends and we like it that way. He is fragile emotionally. I am not the type of person that would benefit him romantically. As friends we work. His physical work at the railroad has nothing to do with his emotional state. He’s sexy as hell, has all kinds of interests and can basically fix anything but he has been honeysuckle on by honeysuckle women. He needs a good compassionate, sensitive woman. I am not that woman. It would be selfish of me to try to form a romantic relationship with him when I know that I can’t be the type of person he needs. I value him as a friend and try to help him build up his confidence and warn him of those women that seem like they will damage him more.

That is certainly being a good friend then.

 

[M_also_lonely]

And there's nothing anyone can do about it

This exact belief is the root problem. Doing something about it is not a choice, it is a necessity. You will have to do it. If you have a functioning body, so much is possible, that you couldn't even attain in lifetimes.

Everything that one possesses as a man, has to be acquired by him. That defines his 'value' in the society. This is true whether you and I like it or not.
The primary qualities of a woman that man finds attractive are physical beauty and femininity. Sure, we look for more things but these are the dominating aspects. Much of this is granted to her without too much effort. This is not true in case of a man. The things that make a man attractive have to be acquired by him. This takes effort.
The good thing about this is that the potential is infinite, your belief is the limit.

It is fine that you started as average, but it is not okay to stay average. Do something about it.
Take things differently this time. Take a positive approach on improving yourself, for once. It is a hard and painful endeavor, but it is totally worth it.

It is very easy to come out of the "average" thing.
You don't have to be a 10/10 at something. You should strive to be a 7-8 at 3 to 4 things.
___________________________________
Consider this:

Let's look at physical attractiveness. 90% of young men do not even do any sort of physical training. Simply by starting physical training, you're standing out from 90% of men. Now zoom in on those 10%. 90% of them don't have a planned regime, a nutritious diet and consistency. If you do that, you're already in the 1%. Here, there will be cut throat competition. Things are way harder here than so far. People here are very serious about their goals.

Now let's consider another aspect. Wealth. Most people save nothing. Most of the people who save do not invest. Most of the people who invest do not do it strategically. If you start investing your savings strategically by gaining the necessary knowledge, you see how you are way ahead of most of the people.

NOW. Let's mix the two. Most fitness freaks are not strategic investors. Most strategic investors are not fitness freaks. Imagine you are working on both these aspects with utmost dedication for a long time. Tell me how you are still "average'.

Now mix 3 aspects and try to excel at those. See where it takes you.

Above things are just examples and could vary based on things you want to work out on.
______________________________________
(continued....)

 

[CenotaphGirl]

This exact belief is the root problem. Doing something about it is not a choice, it is a necessity. You will have to do it. If you have a functioning body, so much is possible, that you couldn't even attain in lifetimes.

Everything that one possesses as a man, has to be acquired by him. That defines his 'value' in the society. This is true whether you and I like it or not.
The primary qualities of a woman that man finds attractive are physical beauty and femininity. Sure, we look for more things but these are the dominating aspects. Much of this is granted to her without too much effort. This is not true in case of a man. The things that make a man attractive have to be acquired by him. This takes effort.
The good thing about this is that the potential is infinite, your belief is the limit.

It is fine that you started as average, but it is not okay to stay average. Do something about it.
Take things differently this time. Take a positive approach on improving yourself, for once. It is a hard and painful endeavor, but it is totally worth it.

It is very easy to come out of the "average" thing.
You don't have to be a 10/10 at something. You should strive to be a 7-8 at 3 to 4 things.
___________________________________
Consider this:

Let's look at physical attractiveness. 90% of young men do not even do any sort of physical training. Simply by starting physical training, you're standing out from 90% of men. Now zoom in on those 10%. 90% of them don't have a planned regime, a nutritious diet and consistency. If you do that, you're already in the 1%. Here, there will be cut throat competition. Things are way harder here than so far. People here are very serious about their goals.

Now let's consider another aspect. Wealth. Most people save nothing. Most of the people who save do not invest. Most of the people who invest do not do it strategically. If you start investing your savings strategically by gaining the necessary knowledge, you see how you are way ahead of most of the people.

NOW. Let's mix the two. Most fitness freaks are not strategic investors. Most strategic investors are not fitness freaks. Imagine you are working on both these aspects with utmost dedication for a long time. Tell me how you are still "average'.

Now mix 3 aspects and try to excel at those. See where it takes you.

Above things are just examples.
______________________________________
(continued....)

I wish I was a man now, i’d hire you as my life coach ! this is informative even for me… im gonna try to up my value as a woman using these techniques lol

 

[M_also_lonely]

Do not see life from the eyes of a victim. You will have to start seeing things that bother you as things that you need to sort out.

Are you really unable to see that a potential partner would find this victimhood mentality "unattractive" ? How can she rely on you when you are not a strong pillar? She can't be a pillar, it is against her nature.

It is unfortunate that things like competitiveness, ambition, etc. are looked down upon. But you shouldn't bend to it. Indulge in competition, aim to defeat your rival. It is necessary, it is a masculine trait. Start seeing your situation this way.
Being competitive is surely not good in some aspects of life, but definitely important in others.
I would also assume, you are not ambitious about something at the moment. If that is the case, then make improving your self as your ambition. Improving from all aspects that you possibly and practically can. The trajectory should be upwards.

 

[ardour]

Are you really unable to see that a potential partner would find this victimhood mentality "unattractive" ? How can she rely on you when you are not a strong pillar? She can't be a pillar, it is against her nature.

I'm sure the OP has already heard the standard Red Pill advice and either figured he can't meet those requirements or that opportunities to show his masculine side are too few at his age. Hierarchies by definition are relative and have to include those nearer the bottom than the top, therefore becoming a 'high value' man isn't possible for everyone.

And most advice assumes interactions with women are happening, that a man is somehow messing up these opportunities. This isn't reality. As a general rule women are cold/contemptuous/wary of men outside of their circles. Breaking into social circles is difficult at any age, but particularly as people get older. He could spend years in the gym (worth doing for general wellbeing) and accumulate enough wealth to buy a small island and no woman would know it or care.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I'm sure the OP has already heard the standard Red Pill advice and either figured he can't meet those requirements or that opportunities to show his masculine side are too few at his age. Hierarchies by definition are relative and have to include those nearer the bottom than the top, therefore becoming a 'high value' man isn't possible for everyone.

And most advice assumes interactions with women are happening, that a man is somehow messing up these opportunities. This isn't reality. As a general rule women are cold/contemptuous/wary of men outside of their circles. Breaking into social circles is difficult at any age, but particularly as people get older. He could spend years in the gym (worth doing for general wellbeing) and accumulate enough wealth to buy a small island and no woman would know it or care.

This is true, I have never really met any of these so called “average men” in person only online… to the point I sometimes wonder if its just some internet persona or something

 

[user 135671]

This is true, I have never really met any of these so called “average men” in person only online… to the point I sometimes wonder if its just some internet persona or something

I don't know about average men or if indeed they exist but there is an epidemic of isolated men. They are everywhere, there are probably a few living on your street. You see them when you go to the shops or when you get on the bus. Perhaps you don’t notice him, because his appearance blends perfectly into the dilapidated industrial background he inhabits. His clothes, like the buildings and once vibrant community, now look shoddy and unkempt. He lacks pride, purpose and meaning, you can see it in his eyes.

I crave solitude and it is often my first choice, I also know that the line between solitude and loneliness is fine and blurred at times. I have a few good friends and I choose to spend time in good company when I want to. I have a good level of self confidence and I have over many years by trial and error developed the ability to reach out when I feel a lacking in my life. I know I’m lucky to have this skill, it's invaluable and for me it was hard won through many years of struggle. I have observed that for many men this is a skill they are yet to develop.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I'm sure the OP has already heard the standard Red Pill advice and either figured he can't meet those requirements or that opportunities to show his masculine side are too few at his age. Hierarchies by definition are relative and have to include those nearer the bottom than the top, therefore becoming a 'high value' man isn't possible for everyone.

And most advice assumes interactions with women are happening, that a man is somehow messing up these opportunities. This isn't reality. As a general rule women are cold/contemptuous/wary of men outside of their circles. Breaking into social circles is difficult at any age, but particularly as people get older. He could spend years in the gym (worth doing for general wellbeing) and accumulate enough wealth to buy a small island and no woman would know it or care.

People are also messing up "these opportunities" if they don't bother because of whatever excuse they want to make. "women are evil soulless creatures who want nothing to do with 'average' men" "they won't want me" "no one wants a virgin" "I'm too ugly/fat" etc etc etc. The list goes on and on, but if you aren't having interactions because you are too afraid to get rejected or put yourself out there or let go of the negative bullshit that keeps you under your rock, that is also your fault. (Generalized you, not singling anyone out....and you'll also notice, I didn't put genders in aside from one tired excuse.)

 

[Claudia1794]

My confusion with all of this is that I have honestly never known anyone like this male or female. I truly do not understand. Maybe because I am from a small town in the south. I know that I am not the only person to have seen a couple somewhere and thought ‘huh, wonder how those two ended up together?’ I have actually been with someone and when my sisters or friends first met him asked ‘****, how’d you land him?’ He was gorgeous, I am far from pretty. I have gone out with all types. I don’t discriminate based on anything. Which is why I can’t for the life of me figure out why this is such an issue. It is really bugging the honeysuckle out of me. I was told by one person that he knows his place. What the hell does that mean? I mean you have to play the game to have a shot a winning. Maybe that’s another reason I don’t understand, I’m competitive. I played sports. I wish just one person would tell me what they are looking for in a woman. I’ve asked several times but I never get an answer. So, here is a woman trying to talk and all I get...crickets. That tells me ok I’m not tangible enough, I’m not smart enough, I’m not nice enough. I keep asking. What is it?

 

[TheRealCallie]

My confusion with all of this is that I have honestly never known anyone like this male or female. I truly do not understand. Maybe because I am from a small town in the south. I know that I am not the only person to have seen a couple somewhere and thought ‘huh, wonder how those two ended up together?’ I have actually been with someone and when my sisters or friends first met him asked ‘****, how’d you land him?’ He was gorgeous, I am far from pretty. I have gone out with all types. I don’t discriminate based on anything. Which is why I can’t for the life of me figure out why this is such an issue. It is really bugging the honeysuckle out of me. I was told by one person that he knows his place. What the hell does that mean? I mean you have to play the game to have a shot a winning. Maybe that’s another reason I don’t understand, I’m competitive. I played sports. I wish just one person would tell me what they are looking for in a woman. I’ve asked several times but I never get an answer. So, here is a woman trying to talk and all I get...crickets. That tells me ok I’m not tangible enough, I’m not smart enough, I’m not nice enough. I keep asking. What is it?

I had the same issues when I first came here. After all the years I've been here, it just boils down to excuses. If you can't get over the negativity, you aren't going to get much good out of life. If you go into anything thinking you are going to fail, you have a 99% chance of failing because of self sabotage. If you don't take a risk, you'll never get the reward and it seems like a lot of people here are afraid of taking the risk. And some people just want a niche type of person that is going to be somewhat difficult to find. It's just easier to blame others, I guess.