Questions for the Men

[TheSkaFish]

Is it really though? I know guys who do well with women who still cant handle rejection, my brother is one of them lol I asked him this question and he said "I hate rejection, makes you feel like crap" lol.
The problem they have is that you're saying "no" they dont care how nice you are saying it lol.



But it's like... because rejection hurts, they wanna physically hurt me? Thats the link I don't get.. feels like they're blaming a woman on the actions of many different and unrelated women... it's like an unfair accumulation perhaps?

Well, I just took a long time to say what your brother managed to with just one sentence, lol. Basically it's that.

But the second part - I don't agree with their actions at all. I would say that it's more of a societal thing, society says that a man who can't successfully attract a woman - especially a "hot" one - is a loser/weak/ineffectual/a *****/"gay" or some variation thereof/low-status/inferior. So that doesn't help things.

But for that extreme of a reaction, it's probably deeper than that. The person probably has some kind of serious dysfunction in their life.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Well, I just took a long time to say what your brother managed to with just one sentence, lol. Basically it's that.

But the second part - I don't agree with their actions at all. I would say that it's more of a societal thing, society says that a man who can't successfully attract a woman - especially a "hot" one - is a loser. So that doesn't help things. But for that extreme of a reaction, it's probably deeper than that. The person probably has some kind of serious dysfunction in their life.

Lol my brother is a simple fella, I really dont think there's any difference depending on percentages, but I can never think of a time a man rejected me and I felt like.. I wanna hurt him... it's just so strange to me. I deffo think for my UK girls an aggressive reaction is common not sure about the US... I think that why so many give fake numbers, make up boyfriends, pretend to be a lesbian because saying "no thank you" is not allowed, you know?

 

[Finished]

Is it really though? I know guys who do well with women who still cant handle rejection, my brother is one of them lol I asked him this question and he said "I hate rejection, makes you feel like crap" lol.
The problem they have is that you're saying "no" they dont care how nice you are saying it lol.

I can't remember a time when I received a NO and it didn't bother me no matter how nice it was. So, yeah, it's not so much about the delivery as it is about the message.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Lol my brother is a simple fella, I really dont think there's any difference depending on percentages, but I can never think of a time a man rejected me and I felt like.. I wanna hurt him... it's just so strange to me. I deffo think for my UK girls an aggressive reaction is common not sure about the US... I think that why so many give fake numbers, make up boyfriends, pretend to be a lesbian because saying "no thank you" is not allowed, you know?

It could also be like you were saying the other day - it's easier for a woman to attract someone, so maybe when you like a guy, you have less riding on it - sure it would be nice if it worked out, but if not, you know that you'll be able to attract someone else. This isn't your only chance.

But for guys, there's a lot riding on it to secure a mate. Getting a "yes" is huge. But a "no" means you're still stuck in "maybe it will never happen, maybe I'll never be good enough, maybe I really am a loser". Especially if it's someone you really like.

I think the reaction is common in the US and probably anywhere. I don't really go where stuff like that happens though. I'm not into the bar/club/hookup scene, where I imagine it's more common.

 

[Finished]

I deffo think for my UK girls an aggressive reaction is common not sure about the US... I think that why so many give fake numbers, make up boyfriends, pretend to be a lesbian because saying "no thank you" is not allowed, you know?

I'd me mad as hell if I said no to someone and they got aggressive about it.

The problem is guys are naturally aggressive. HOWEVER, that is no excuse. No is hurtful. But, it is still the responsibility of the person asking to accept that and be respectful about it.

I think that I would use the lesbian excuse too. Hmmmm. Maybe the population around me isn't 80% lesbian at the clubs. They were just saying no so I could easily accept it. Ha! ha!

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I can't remember a time when I received a NO and it didn't bother me no matter how nice it was. So, yeah, it's not so much about the delivery as it is about the message.

Poor guy, honestly it sounds awful wish there was a way I didn't have to say yes and you didn't have to get a no life sucks...

It could also be like you were saying the other day - it's easier for a woman to attract someone, so maybe when you like a guy, you have less riding on it - sure it would be nice if it worked out, but if not, you know that you'll be able to attract someone else. This isn't your only chance.

But for guys, there's a lot riding on it to secure a mate. Getting a "yes" is huge. But a "no" means you're still stuck in "maybe it will never happen, maybe I'll never be good enough, maybe I really am a loser". Especially if it's someone you really like.

I think the reaction is common in the US and probably anywhere. I don't really go where stuff like that happens though. I'm not into the bar/club/hookup scene, where I imagine it's more common.

Well... to be fair... thats probably true, also I think women genuinely think somethings wrong with the man, I've never said it but I've deffo thought... oh he's weird... how could he not want me lol or I bet he has a girlfriend. I never think, oh I guess im worthless and all this weird stuff. My self-esteem issues stem from being attacked not rejected so it's not something to easily understand.

Hmm interesting I mean my reality is anytime I leave my house there is some man some where... trying to pay for my shopping or help me with my car, or help me tie my bloody shoe lol

I'd me mad as hell if I said no to someone and they got aggressive about it.

The problem is guys are naturally aggressive. HOWEVER, that is no excuse. No is hurtful. But, it is still the responsibility of the person asking to accept that and be respectful about it.

I think that I would use the lesbian excuse too. Hmmmm. Maybe the population around me isn't 80% lesbian at the clubs. They were just saying no so I could easily accept it. Ha! ha!

I literally kiss my friends in clubs to get guys to leave me or them alone... it usually has the opposite affect

 

[Finished]

I literally kiss my friends in clubs to get guys to leave me or them alone... it usually has the opposite affect

I don't believe you! Send me the pics just so I can see it's true. Ha! ha!

Okay so here's something interesting to add to all of that:

The woman says no. But, the guy thinks, oh she's playing hard to get, which is sometimes true. So, the guy persues her. I believe women like to be pursued. After all some guy should not be able to just ask them out. They need to work at it. You know, put some effort into it. However, the guy finds out later that the woman actually meant no the hard way.

Although, I've heard plenty of stories that the woman kept saying no. But, then the guy won them over. So, how do guys know when to pursue and when to give up? Personally, when someone says no then I am done. Just like if I'm talking to someone and they aren't paying attention then I just walk away. But, one time I found out later that the woman that said no to me actually was interested. But, I gave up too easily. Blaaaaa.

It's all a game.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I like this.. I understand your stance completely, you left nothing out, I feel like this is the realest answer I got to my crazy question. I think you understand that my desire to understand attraction is not about trying to increase the importance of it, only simply to understand it.

Thanks. I try to give thorough answers because I want to be understood by others, and it helps me understand myself. And yeah you just seem curious about it. It's nice that you seem to be trying to understand points of view outside your own perspectives and experiences.

There is obviously something that some women have that puts them into the "hot category", there is the box I've been trying to open, but it gets shrouded by... "being hot doesn't matter" rather than... what's in the box?

I'd say it's just *** appeal/looks.

Is this difference true in your opinion? Do you think most men treat a woman they find more attractive better than they treat a woman they do not find attractive? I hear things like oh 50/50 and blah blah, truth is most men are not implying this is for all women, just the "Average and below" looking women...

I think it's true in a general sense. But I try not to do this myself. I try to treat everyone the same way. And as I've grown up and realized how and why looks aren't everything, and they've taken a back seat to personality, I find that looks have less power over me than they used to. I would not do any kind of special tasks or humiliate myself or anything like that for a chance with a "hot" woman, in fact, I'd feel pretty disrespected if someone tried to play games with me like that, so I wouldn't go along with it. If their attraction to me is that conditional, then it's not real and I'm not interested either. There are people out there who won't play games, so I know I don't have to play them. The game-players and their world aren't real, so I don't care about it anymore.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I don't believe you! Send me the pics just so I can see it's true. Ha! ha!

Okay so here's something interesting to add to all of that:

The woman says no. But, the guy thinks, oh she's playing hard to get, which is sometimes true. So, the guy persues her. I believe women like to be pursued. After all some guy should not be able to just ask them out. They need to work at it. You know, put some effort into it. However, the guy finds out later that the woman actually meant no the hard way.

Although, I've heard plenty of stories that the woman kept saying no. But, then the guy won them over. So, how do guys know when to pursue and when to give up? Personally, when someone says no then I am done. Just like if I'm talking to someone and they aren't paying attention then I just walk away. But, one time I found out later that the woman that said no to me actually was interested. But, I gave up too easily. Blaaaaa.

It's all a game.

Lol I do have pictures to be fair lool

So weird my bro was just mentioning this, the game around attraction. I think theres a flirtatious game some people play. If a guy asked me nicely twice... I'd say no nicely twice... I have no issue unless it becomes stalking. I only have issue about being abused for simply saying no, wether its verbal or physical.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Thanks. I try to give thorough answers because I want to be understood by others, and it helps me understand myself. And yeah you just seem curious about it. It's nice that you seem to be trying to understand points of view outside your own perspectives and experiences.



I'd say it's just *** appeal/looks.



I think it's true in a general sense. But I try not to do this myself. I try to treat everyone the same way. And as I've grown up and realized how and why looks aren't everything, and they've taken a back seat to personality, I find that looks have less power over me than they used to. I would not do any kind of special tasks or humiliate myself or anything like that for a chance with a "hot" woman, in fact, I'd feel pretty disrespected if someone tried to play games with me like that, so I wouldn't go along with it. If their attraction to me is that conditional, then it's not real and I'm not interested either. There are people out there who won't play games, so I know I don't have to play them. The game-players and their world aren't real, so I don't care about it anymore.

Yeah, I like to understand points of view of men, I find men so hard to understand lol You're supposed to be the less complicated ones

Loool honestly I cant imagine doing crazy tasks for a guy either, my brother makes me laugh, theres not much he wouldn't do for a hottie... I think playing games is the immature side of dating I think as people age they put the games aside and get serious. I do think a man jumping through a few hoops is a must for me, only because I like to know I mean something to him, if he won't do it, I feel like... would he really fight for this...

 

[TheSkaFish]

Yeah, I like to understand points of view of men, I find men so hard to understand lol You're supposed to be the less complicated ones

Loool honestly I cant imagine doing crazy tasks for a guy either, my brother makes me laugh, theres not much he wouldn't do for a hottie... I think playing games is the immature side of dating I think as people age they put the games aside and get serious. I do think a man jumping through a few hoops is a must for me, only because I like to know I mean something to him, if he won't do it, I feel like... would he really fight for this...

That's cool that you're making an honest attempt to understand others' points of view. It's too bad more people are more interested in being "right" and "the good guy", than in reaching across the aisle. I think that's a big cause of the increasingly polarized world of today.

And it sounds like your brother is just a young guy, it's natural. Just because of the way I am, I've always been a more serious person, I've almost always been ready to be serious and never really developed a taste for games.

On your last point though - see, I get what you mean. I just feel like, for me, I'd like to show that the person I'm with means something to me. I just don't want to jump through hoops or play games to do it. I'd prefer to show it in a different way.

 

[ardour]

Rejection hurts everyone though, but most people take it in stride... dont they?

"Most people" means almost exclusively men, and since men have to approach and deal with the inevitable rejection you're likely come across those who deal with it poorly, those who think it's a slight on their manhood, or outright predatory types.

I'm not as bothered by rejection as much as the ridiculous reactions I've gotten in the past (and I've only asked a few women out). It sucks to have to pick yourself up from that. Ask a friend out...prepare to lose them as a friend, and now you're a creepy faux friend Nice Guy, or so the judgement goes. Ask a stranger/acquaintance out, now you're a pest who bothers women just trying to enjoy a night out or their hobbies in peace. Outside of online dating there's no right way of approaching it any more, no designated areas where it's okay to show interest, no Saturday night dances, like in my mother's generation. It's no longer acceptable to ask random women out at clubs, in public, definitely not at work.

Since people don't settle down in their early 20s like in previous generations, if you wanted to actually make a concerted effort, well we're talking years, potentially decades of rejection, years of needlessly rude no's with almost no positive feedback. Fun eh... So yea It's not hard to see how ugly, short, awkward etc. men grow frustrated. That isn't an excuse, but like I said, then consider those who already have personality or anger issues.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

That's cool that you're making an honest attempt to understand others' points of view. It's too bad more people are more interested in being "right" and "the good guy", than in reaching across the aisle. I think that's a big cause of the increasingly polarized world of today.

And it sounds like your brother is just a young guy, it's natural. Just because of the way I am, I've always been a more serious person, I've almost always been ready to be serious and never really developed a taste for games.

On your last point though - see, I get what you mean. I just feel like, for me, I'd like to show that the person I'm with means something to me. I just don't want to jump through hoops or play games to do it. I'd prefer to show it in a different way.

Omg I could pick your brain for hours Skafish... I feel like everyone else just starts debating something that im just not even asking however... I can also see its easy to offend others so maybe its hard to have real conversations... with that in mind. Even im a bad girl that has to be more careful with my fleeting statements...

My brother isn't really young he has learning difficulties though so sometimes he acts a little younger. He always makes me laugh though, he has so many girl problems that we usually laugh about together. He only likes the girls that are half naked girls on instagram... then he doesn't want them to be half naked on instagram.

I will say, that could give a mixed message, if you aren't willing to impress "me", how can you get "me"? It's like saying you won't court, in my opinion lol there is an exchange, a flirtatious game that is played by both, mot messed up mind games though lol.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

"Most people" means almost exclusively men, and since men have to approach and deal with the inevitable rejection you're likely come across those who deal with it poorly, those who think it's a slight on their manhood, or outright predatory types.

I'm not as bothered by rejection as fearful or otherwise ridiculous reactions I gotten in the past (and I've only asked a few women out). It sucks to have to pick yourself up from that. Ask a friend out...prepare to lose them as a friend, and now you're a creepy faux friend Nice Guy, so the judgement goes. Ask a stranger/acquaintance out, now you're a pest who bothers women just trying to enjoy a night out, or their hobbies in peace. Outside of online dating there's no right way of approaching it , no designated areas where it's okay to show interest. No Saturday night dances, like in my mother's generation. It's no longer acceptable to ask random women out at clubs and definitely not at work. And since people don't settle down in their early 20s any more like in previous generations, if you wanted to make a concerted effort, we're talking years, potentially decades of rejection and needlessly rude no's with almost no positive feedback. Fun... So yea It's not hard to see how ugly, short, awkward etc. men effort grow frustrated. That isn't an excuse, but like I said, then consider those who already have personality or anger issues.

I mean, yeah men are more likely to do all the asking, I agree there. I think a lot of men are trying to flip the script and be more open to sharing the "asking out role". I honestly believe most men want women more often than we want them and that adds to the imbalance. I could go a few years without interacting with a man thats not related to me anyway lol and feel nothing but peace lol.

Asking a friend out is a sad moment, it's not like you can just go back to being friends, people will say you're leading him on and blah blah. Omg wow, I soooo agree with you on this, I have noticed that online dating is the only real socially acceptable way to ask someone out.

Honestly, for me... I understand men will approach me if I like it or not, I just wish there was a possible way they could respect that I dont like it... once I kindly make that clear. I have never rejected a man rudely I have always tried to be respectful, maybe because I know how it feels... I can say maybe 2% of men were respectful to me. I've been grabbed, touched, attacked, drink thrown on me, and followed back to my hotel... as the most common reactions... I think sometimes it annoys me to be nice because I know to expect the above or at the very least some sort of verbal abuse and a stupid comment about how i'm not that hot anyway lol.

I think that must have something to do with why so many women are soo anti asking them out during their day to day activities, I mean if it was just flattering attention not as many would have a huge issue with it, surely.

You peaked my interest though, what type of positive feedback could a woman give?

 

[ardour]

I mean, yeah men are more likely to do all the asking, I agree there. I think a lot of men are trying to flip the script and be more open to sharing the "asking out role". I honestly believe most men want women more often than we want them and that adds to the imbalance. I could go a few years without interacting with a man thats not related to me anyway lol and feel nothing but peace lol.

Asking a friend out is a sad moment, it's not like you can just go back to being friends, people will say you're leading him on and blah blah. Omg wow, I soooo agree with you on this, I have noticed that online dating is the only real socially acceptable way to ask someone out.

Honestly, for me... I understand men will approach me if I like it or not, I just wish there was a possible way they could respect that I dont like it... once I kindly make that clear. I have never rejected a man rudely I have always tried to be respectful, maybe because I know how it feels... I can say maybe 2% of men were respectful to me. I've been grabbed, touched, attacked, drink thrown on me, and followed back to my hotel... as the most common reactions... I think sometimes it annoys me to be nice because I know to expect the above or at the very least some sort of verbal abuse and a stupid comment about how i'm not that hot anyway lol.

I think that must have something to do with why so many women are soo anti asking them out during their day to day activities, I mean if it was just flattering attention not as many would have a huge issue with it, surely.

You peaked my interest though, what type of positive feedback could a woman give?

Anything other than disgusted or offended would count as positive imo. Just politeness. No screwed up face, averted eyes, obvious attempts to 'escape' or have a girlfriend 'save you' if the guy hasn't done anything wrong yet. Is it entitled to expect that? I don't know, maybe, but it's nice when it doesn't happen. Asking men out would be a safer way for a woman to find an SO, because, assuming she knows the man a little first, she'll have an idea of his personality, how he'll react if she doesn't want to continue seeing him in the future. But that isn't happening, because nobody wants to deal with rejection if they don't have to, and most seem to want a Manly Man.

Of course, no excuse for those aresholes ... but you're on here saying you want a husband so it's hard to believe the claim about happily avoiding males.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Anything other than disgusted or offended would count as positive imo. Just politeness. No screwed up face, averted eyes, obvious attempts to 'escape' or have a girlfriend 'save you' if the guy hasn't done anything wrong yet. Is it entitled to expect that? I don't know, maybe, but it's nice when it doesn't happen. Asking men out would be a safer way for a woman to find an SO, because, assuming she knows the man a little first, she'll have an idea of his personality, how he'll react if she doesn't want to continue seeing him in the future. But that isn't happening, because nobody wants to deal with rejection if they don't have to, and most seem to want a Manly Man who takes that role.

Of course I don't excuse those aresholes ... but you're on here saying you want a husband so it's hard to believe your claim about happily avoiding males.

Hmmmm idk if its intentional, maybe women who do that are doing the same as men who get aggressive, in the sense the compile all previous experiences and take it out on the new person. However, many men will admit, nothing but a yes will do, they have no care how nicely the no is said, it's still rejection, the rejection is what they dont like.

Idk if it's entitled, but I think the reason it's often taken negatively is, the situation usually ends negatively. My mum said it never used to be like that, I think social media has exposed people to vast amounts of rejection they would never have had to experience before, the anger of that spills out into real life...

Honestly with the whole asking out thing, I think it's more to do with the male role, as the chaser, I grew up hearing men dont like to be chased blah blah That was probably true for most at one point but attitudes are changing. Wanting a manly man is so taboo now, I feel like I have to be attracted to women to like a lot of the men of today. To be fair, it feels like a total swap, the women even seem more... masculine in some respects.

I want a husband, but... im being honest, take men away from me for 3 years, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep. I just think men want us more, I think that has a lot to do with biology, men just deal with things I dont think women deal with, I dont wake up every morning, with any reminder that somethings missing in my life without being too crude. I also know so many women who are single by choice, I've met very minimal men that consider themselves single by choice.. you know? I think it changes when the clock strikes 12 and women are around 30... and thats well biology yet again..

 

[ardour]

I want a husband, but... im being honest, take men away from me for 3 years, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep. I just think men want us more, I think that has a lot to do with biology, men just deal with things I dont think women deal with, I dont wake up every morning, with any reminder that somethings missing in my life without being too crude. I also know so many women who are single by choice, I've met very minimal men that consider themselves single by choice.. you know? I think it changes when the clock strikes 12 and women are around 30... and thats well biology yet again..

I agree with all of that. We're biologically predisposed to 'want' more and there's no easy solution to that disparity in desire. It also makes us needy and unattractive.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I agree with all of that. We're biologically predisposed to 'want' more than women, and there's no easy solution to that disparity in desire. It also makes us needy and unattractive.

Feel likeee I've learned something tonight !

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

Hmm another question is... guys... why do you think that some men get so aggressive, mean and threatening... after you respectfully decline their advances?

If you're not used to taking a punch, when you get punched, it's gonna hurt. Rejection is kind of like that.
Just like with *** being a physical exercise that nobody is simply born with the innate ability to be good at.
Both of these things take time, practice and development.

I handle rejection fine, but that's because I'm in the practice of teaching myself to handle it. Actually, it's more disruptive to my mental faculties if I have to do the rejecting. THAT'S what throws me off. I never get used to it.

 

[sparkyn98]

I handle rejection fine, but that's because I'm in the practice of teaching myself to handle it. Actually, it's more disruptive to my mental faculties if I have to do the rejecting. THAT'S what throws me off. I never get used to it.

It is VERY hard to politely let someone down and then not obsess if you hurt them...