Too much emphasis on confidence?

[VanillaCreme]

Bones, I totally agree with you, hun. Some people just refuse to believe they are the issue - not everyone around them. And they have an excuse for every little thing. It's never their fault, and God forbid anyone even hint that they may be the real, deep down inside issue.

Eve, I agree with you as well. A little nudge or a boost can go a long way for some people. A gentle word or a kind gesture can really help.

 

[ardour]

sigh...going to repeat myself; confidence is not a valuable attribute on the same level as integrity, honesty, intelligence, work ethic, compassion, decency. Yet you're elevating it to an absolute essential to be considered worthy of human contact. Complete low-lifes can have a great deal of confidence. They often do. The depressing impression is of some people actually prefering that to an honest but even mildly inhibited person.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

I never said I wasn't the issue.

But saying that I am the issue, and not giving me a way to fix it, doesn't ******* help. It's like saying, "You don't know how to do math", and then not teaching algebra. The kid flunks out. He never learns math.

Compassion isn't a one way street. If you want to be treated with understanding, please show some first.

And this is the last post I will make in this thread, because people apparently don't understand what it's like. They've dated. They have confidence. They can't relate.

 

[Hisilarn]

Strangers have no idea how confident you are. They have no expectations, doesn't matter how shy you were to others. Just gather your courage and do the first step. You just have to decide that you want to be confident -- actually I did the same. Also, you can be both confident and intelligent at the same time...

 

[Dissident]

Bones, I totally agree with you, hun. Some people just refuse to believe they are the issue - not everyone around them.

To a degree this is correct, but your outright refusal of external causality is what I have a problem with. It is not only scientifically invalid (just TRY getting a paper denying the ability to inflict psychological harm on others through peer review), it's also the hallmark of sociopathic behavior. It's obvious you absolutely cannot see from others' perspectives.

And they have an excuse for every little thing.

Every time you use the word "excuse" you admit to having vacuous logic. If you can't give a rational reason for your belief, then you need to evaluate your criteria.

It's never their fault, and God forbid anyone even hint that they may be the real, deep down inside issue.

No, but you are coming to the defense of people judging other people for no other reason than their lack of confidence. This foolishly optimistic self-help crap is like republicans telling homeless people that if they want to stop being homeless they should just get a job.

If you want to help someone build themselves up, you should give advice on how to do things that build up confidence. Telling someone to "just be confident" is not a solution.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

I'd argue that someone who has been physically abused is pretty confident that they will be hurt. Someone who has been the victim of domestic violence will probably expect that their boyfriend or girlfriend (or spouse) will hit them, and they will be utterly flummoxed if they don't.

People are a result of their own conditioning. I actually was an extremely confident preteen around girls. It wasn't until I started getting responses that I was ugly, disgusting, and that no girl in her right mind would ever go out with an ugly guy like me, that I started believing that it wasn't worth trying.

Anybody who argues that someone who is told these things, and that it is their fault that they believe them, is not only a failure of a compassionate human being, but also hasn't studied basic psychology. I have taken psychology courses at college, and now I understand why I feel the way I do. **** all if I know how to fix it, because it goes back to when I was just starting to grow and my brain and emotions were growing along with it, but I understand why I turned out the way I do.

Oh, and Amanda Todd? How about all the other faceless bully victims? Did they just need to be confident?

 

[Bones]

Since I never believed in do as i say and not do as i do as a parent, I ran an experiment today.

I got out of my comfort zone today.

I engaged in small talk (which i never really understood and kinda terrible at) and smiled at people.

There was around 75% success rate of getting a smile back and probably a success rate of around a third for engaging in small talk.

So, it works.

Does it work for everyone?

No, it does not.

But, I actually paid attention to one of the females in the forum when they stated something to the effect ... someone saying hi gets me every time.

Apparently, this works with a lot females.

So, how about putting on a smile on your face, engage in small talk, and see what happens?

And as a side note, there are a lot of good suggestions from the females on this board and it pays to pay attention to what they say - it can only help and i appreciate the help that i have received and would like to say thank you to them.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Bones, comfort zones are not what we're talking about. Confidence and comfort zones are two different things.

Again, try to read what me and the poster above me are writing, because you, Eve, and Vanilla are wrong.

 

[Sci-Fi]

They are not wrong Muse, they are just voicing their opinion and advice. Maybe it just isn't what YOU think confidence is. Confidence comes in many forms and sometimes to help boost your confidence you have to step out of your comfort zone. Like what Bones was talking about, Bones had success in engaging in small talk with some people or getting a smile. That can boost ones own self confidence in something they fear.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

It's not necessarily comfort, but social cues. I have no idea when a girl likes me as more than a friend. I only know when she doesn't like me that way.

At least that is clear...

 

[ardour]

It's not necessarily comfort, but social cues. I have no idea when a girl likes me as more than a friend. I only know when she doesn't like me that way.

Ah well you see that to do with a lack of confidence.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

It's not necessarily comfort, but social cues. I have no idea when a girl likes me as more than a friend. I only know when she doesn't like me that way.

Ah well you see that to do with a lack of confidence.

I can't understand if you're being sarcastic...I think you are, right?

What cracks me up is that I, as the man, am expected to approach women. Of course I understand this, it is typical human behavior.

However, how I am supposed to know if she is looking towards me like "I am really into what you're saying"? Or if she's looking at me like, "get away, creep!"

When people throw the confidence thing out there, they are assuming that confidence will change someone's view of you. Some people just dislike others for no apparent reason. I do sometimes; I dislike someone, and can't understand why I dislike them...I just do. It's probably best if I don't end up trying to be friendly with them if they are giving me bad vibes.

Even Brad Pitt was a creeper to someone. George Clooney had to get drunk to talk to women. These are men who are considered sex symbols...how exactly is it because of a lack of confidence, now?

And I can't drink alcohol, because of my medication. I could potentially kill myself. What's the point in drinking if you'll be dead by the end of the night? My doctor would be horrified.

But I do somewhat understand what they're trying to say. Having the confidence to go after what you want is always a good trait. But sometimes, you have to realize that life is uncertain, and you can do everything right, and still everything will go wrong.

 

[ardour]

I can't understand if you're being sarcastic...I think you are, right?

What cracks me up is that I, as the man, am expected to approach women. Of course I understand this, it is typical human behavior.

However, how I am supposed to know if she is looking towards me like "I am really into what you're saying"? Or if she's looking at me like, "get away, creep!"

When people throw the confidence thing out there, they are assuming that confidence will change someone's view of you. Some people just dislike others for no apparent reason. I do sometimes; I dislike someone, and can't understand why I dislike them...I just do. It's probably best if I don't end up trying to be friendly with them if they are giving me bad vibes.

Even Brad Pitt was a creeper to someone. George Clooney had to get drunk to talk to women. These are men who are considered sex symbols...how exactly is it because of a lack of confidence, now?

And I can't drink alcohol, because of my medication. I could potentially kill myself. What's the point in drinking if you'll be dead by the end of the night? My doctor would be horrified.

But I do somewhat understand what they're trying to say. Having the confidence to go after what you want is always a good trait. But sometimes, you have to realize that life is uncertain, and you can do everything right, and still everything will go wrong.

Yes that was sarcasm. Developing a wide variety of strengths is better, like resilience for example. Becoming a loud and pushy guy who lacks self-awareness is not one of my priorities.

Women have this tendency to be 'emotional thinkers' and view their personal preferences as if they were objective reality, as patronising as it sounds. Confidence just happens to be something they find particularly attractive and the absence of it intolerable. But that's on them. You could be a scumbag of various description or say mostly thoughtless things, but if you have confidence or if you say those things with a confident attitude... then that’s something going for ya, right? Except it isn’t really.

 

[VanillaCreme]

How about all the other faceless bully victims? Did they just need to be confident?

They needed to stand up for themselves. I grew up with a mom who was hell on wheels, and didn't take crap from no one. She taught me and my brother to always stand up for ourselves.

Rdor, you can huff and puff all you want... Not everyone will automatically agree with what you say. And not everyone has to.

Dissident, you can analyze every word I say, that doesn't mean I'll agree with you either. I don't think you're right, and never will. My opinion and thoughts are my own. You're not the one to decide that for me just because you want to nitpick your way through what I post.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Only someone who has never been a bully victim can say that they can stand up for themselves.

Listen, I told them to **** off. I ignored them. I hit them. I used the principal to threaten them. My mom called their parents.

Nothing worked. I had to switch schools, because they basically weren't giving up.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Only someone who has never been a bully victim can say that they can stand up for themselves.

Listen, I told them to **** off. I ignored them. I hit them. I used the principal to threaten them. My mom called their parents.

Nothing worked. I had to switch schools, because they basically weren't giving up.

Dude, I've been bullied before. When I was in middle school, some older black dude used to constantly pick on me. And often times, he started saying sexual things out of his mouth. He also used to put his hands on me, pushing and grabbing me. I told him to piss off several times, but he still came back to bother me. It got so bad that my brother and his friends, who were the same age as said black kid I think, started paying attention to him, and they didn't like him one bit.

He eventually left me alone. I was one of the fortunate ones, so I don't consider what I went through that horrible. But it was still unwanted attention.

So once again, you talk and know nothing about the person of which you talk to.

Also, now that I'm remembering, he also used to pick on this other black girl. She was quiet, and didn't bring much attention to herself. She was overweight, and I believe that was the reason why said black dude picked on us. She was a sweet girl though, and we became friends while in school. In fact, I thought of her the other day, because she was truly a nice person. And if I could talk today, I totally would.

 

[Dissident]

So, it works.

Does it work for everyone?

No, it does not.

Not everyone has the time to spend on things that are ultimately useless. The only reason you had that high of a success rate was because you didn't have an actual investment of time and energy, and you had no tangible ends. That's why psychopaths have such an easy time manipulating the people around them. I'm not saying that confidence doesn't work, I'm saying that it shouldn't because it relies on a completely broken system that is both cruelly recursive and built on a false premise.

Moreover "just be confident" is not advice. It's like telling a poor person that if they need to pay the bills they should "just get money" without bothering with any of the prerequisites of acquiring more money, such as job-hunting or investing advice.

They are not wrong Muse, they are just voicing their opinion and advice.

Making statements about factual information that go directly against observations that can be made about reality makes you, by definition, wrong.

Dissident, you can analyze every word I say, that doesn't mean I'll agree with you either. I don't think you're right, and never will. My opinion and thoughts are my own. You're not the one to decide that for me just because you want to nitpick your way through what I post.

It is not a matter of opinion. You are empirically wrong about a factual question. Not accepting it doesn't put you in virtuous solidarity with your judgment and opinions, it makes you willfully ignorant.

 

[VanillaCreme]

What are the facts? What you say? I don't think so. You think what you want, and I'll think what I want. I'm not going to agree with you just because you think I'm wrong. Sorry. Observations aren't always rights. Things aren't always as they seem.

Also, reading back at your post, you're putting way too much thought and effort into this. Laughable to me.

 

[Dissident]

You stated that a person cannot adversely affect the way another person feels (or that it is a trivial matter to overcome it), thereby removing responsibility from how people act toward each other. That you think it's laughable only demonstrates sociopathic tendencies.

 

[theraab]

You want some advice on how to be more confident - find someone who is good at whatever endeavor you want to be more confident in, and ask them for help. Ask them to show you how things are done and to honestly critique the way you do things. Listen to them critique you, and take their advice. Then practice doing whatever it is you want to be more confident in doing. Practice it a lot - as you get better, you will be more confident.