What documentary are you watching?

[Jack Kerouac]

Here is one. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/8/1777.full

Which comes to two studies that you now have. I will look for the documentation of the documentary.

Actually that's one study. A documentary is not a scientific study...

And that study doesn't say that it reverses diabetes like your video claims. It says "A Low-Fat Vegan Diet Improves Glycemic Control and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in a Randomized Clinical Trial in Individuals With Type 2 Diabetes "

But at least you got something that appears to be published in a peer reviewe journal. Props on that. That's a lot better than giving us a documentary which shows nothing.

It still doesn't support the large claim of the video however.

Here is a list of studies done only by Dr. Neal Barnard who is one of the doctors behind this documentary. Your going to argue that you know more then him? http://www.nealbarnard.org/pubs.cfm

You fail to grasp the concept that just because somebody is a doctor doesn't mean that you have to trust everything they say- especially when they're involved in money making videos with spiritual gurus.

Scientific research is necessary to prove a health claim- not doctor credentials.

I wonder how many more studies I can find from the doctors behind this documentary?

We need studies that support the hypothesis of the video- not just studies conducted by the people involved. And they need to be from credible peer reviewed journals.

Oh really??? So burning calories makes no difference then according to you? According to you every body builder should be overweight... You have no clue what your talking about. Why then do some people consume 4000 or more calories a day and they have low body fat?

When body builders cut, they eat a caloric deficit- every single time. When they bulk, they eat a caloric excess. And if they're eating 4000 or more calories a day, they probably either are 1) bulking, or 2) they have the muscle mass to burn that many calories. 4000 calories is not that much for a big body builder. Many body builders DO get HUGELY overweight while bulking though.

http://yeahmanh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/lee_priest.jpg

4000 calories a day would be nothing to that guy.

Body builders who do not do the cut/bulk process eat the exact amount of calories necessary every day (this is a HELL of a lot more work than just eating healthy) and work out hard enough to maximize muscle mass growth without putting on excess fat- that too is possible. But they had to cut before they started that process or they wouldn't have low body fat to begin with, so somewhere down the line they at a caloric deficit.

If you have a gut, you can workout all you want, but if you don't eat a caloric deficit, you're not going to ever have a flat stomach.

Wrong...

This is all still based upon the assumption that you are on a starvation diet. Which means less then about 1500 to 2000 calories.

Um, no. A caloric deficit is determined by your height, weight, muscle mass, amount of working out etc. There is no set amount of calories to have a caloric deficit, as it will be a different number for each person.

A 3000 calorie diet might be a huge caloric deficit for a big body builder. If Michael Phelps ate that many calories he'd be a twig in no time.

Phelps eats 12000 calories a day:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08132008/news/nationalnews/phelps_pig_secret__hes_boy_gorge_124248.htm

It has to do with his muscle mass, height, and the fact that he uses an insaine amount of calories each day training.

Where do you get your information? The circus?[/color]

Body building sites, men's health magazines, and personal trainers. What I'm saying about weight loss is considered basic common knowledge.

If you lose fat, you're going to lose muscle mass as well- the best you can do is minimize the amount. The best way to minimize it is to limit the amount of pounds you lose a week (for most people more than 2 pounds a week will shed a lot more muscle), lift weights, and eat plenty of protein.

 

[Skorian]

Actually that's one study. A documentary is not a scientific study...

It isn't the documentation for the study, but it is video documentation of a study being done.

And that study doesn't say that it reverses diabetes like your video claims. It says "A Low-Fat Vegan Diet Improves Glycemic Control and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in a Randomized Clinical Trial in Individuals With Type 2 Diabetes "

Watch the video.... It isn't making claims. It takes 6 diabetics and cures 4 on video. One guy doesn't make it and has to leave. He doesn't like the food. Another guy cheats on the diet, he also lied to them and went in with type I diabetes. Nonetheless they help both to massively lower their blood sugar and thus their needed insulin. I am sure there is documentation of the event that probably gives greater details. The documentary was taken at http://www.treeoflife.nu/welcome a health clinic. One of the services they offer to people is to teach them how to reverse their diabetes. It is what they do.

The study as I understand it is a less intrusive diet. It doesn't require individuals to eat nearly as healthy as the retreat.

The long post above explains in detail what can be seen by looking at cells under a microscope. They know what causes diabetes. Removing that cause removes the diabetes.

But at least you got something that appears to be published in a peer reviewe journal. Props on that. That's a lot better than giving us a documentary which shows nothing.

The documentary shows alot more then you think.

It still doesn't support the large claim of the video however.

You fail to grasp the concept that just because somebody is a doctor doesn't mean that you have to trust everything they say- especially when they're involved in money making videos with spiritual gurus.

Scientific research is necessary to prove a health claim- not doctor credentials.

There is more then credentials there.

We need studies that support the hypothesis of the video- not just studies conducted by the people involved. And they need to be from credible peer reviewed journals.

When body builders cut, they eat a caloric deficit- every single time. When they bulk, they eat a caloric excess. And if they're eating 4000 or more calories a day, they probably either are 1) bulking, or 2) they have the muscle mass to burn that many calories. 4000 calories is not that much for a big body builder. Many body builders DO get HUGELY overweight while bulking though.

They can get overweight, because they are intentionally eating massive excesses of calories to “maximize” muscle growth.

When they cut, it is for competitions so that they can get the ripped look. It is not to get a healthy weight. They actually lose so much fat that it is not healthy. They go below the fat composition that the body needs to have, you need some fat. They eat very specific diets along with certian supplements so as to even thin their skin. All for competitions.

You can lose weight and build muscle. The loss of muscle is only if you eat far too little calories to sustain yourself. As long as one meets the base calories they need and get enough protein they will not canalize muscle.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.


http://yeahmanh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/lee_priest.jpg

4000 calories a day would be nothing to that guy.

Body builders who do not do the cut/bulk process eat the exact amount of calories necessary every day (this is a HELL of a lot more work than just eating healthy) and work out hard enough to maximize muscle mass growth without putting on excess fat- that too is possible. But they had to cut before they started that process or they wouldn't have low body fat to begin with, so somewhere down the line they at a caloric deficit.

If you have a gut, you can workout all you want, but if you don't eat a caloric deficit, you're not going to ever have a flat stomach.

More muscle means the base calories you burn in a day doing nothing increases. It greatly increases how much you burn in a day if you are active. The body can burn fat and not muscle. The "only" exception is if you want to lose fat down to an "extremely" low percentage for competitions. That is the only reason they do that.

You’re still wrong. You learned this from an advertisement selling a product or something. They are trying to convince people to get very very lean. Which isn't really healthy.

Body building sites, men's health magazines, and personal trainers. What I'm saying about weight loss is considered basic common knowledge.

Body building sites in general are not a good source of information. Magazines in general are worthless as a source of information. Their articles are heavily influenced by the advertising dollars of their ads. I definitely would not use the information from these sources as a source of information on nutrition. Many body-building products are flat out bad for you. The trainers may be getting their information from poor sources themselves. I guess it depends. Small wonder your paranoid.

Yes, you (sometimes) need fewer calories then your going to burn, but losing muscle has alot to do with how far you cut that back and what you eat. From another perspective you can try to burn more then you eat. Also, some foods lend themselves to putting on fat much more then others. It is possible to consume way more then you burn and not become fat. Where consuming those foods will generally help you lose weight. The problem with body builders is they often get their calories from ****** sources. Weight gainer formulas are generally filled with very unhealthy ingredients. Not all calories are created equally. The body actually can block the absorption of carbs if it is very healthy. The reason people put on fat is more complex then simply the number of calories, though that is one major factor. In general people get overweight because of underlying health problems.

The reasons these people are spiritual leaders and the like is because when you eat really well you are very much the reverse of depressed. So empowering people sort of comes naturally with that. It comes hand in hand with a sort of spirituality that is sort of like the Native Americans in a way. I am sure someone getting their health information out of men’s health would not understand that. There is no real way I can explain it.

Do you know that diabeties is not only caused by a lack of insulin, but also insulin resistence? The fact that they have identified the exact cause of diabeties is huge.

I will just say that what they say about fats clogging up the cells being responsible for insulin resistance makes a good deal of sense with everything else I have read. That alone sort of defeats the need for studies really. Though I am sure you and others don't understand that or why. If you know exactly how something works or why, then it sort of makes studies moot. It is sort of like watching a how to build a birdhouse documentary and then claiming you have to have studies to prove you can build it. You’re making your arguments on total ignorance. The way I see it, your lazy and don’t want to take responsibility for your health.

Food isn't really a drug and generally drugs are what need studies. The reason studies are needed is because many are so ineffective that a study is needed to prove if it is safe or works at all. When you’re talking about a subject like this. If you can cure a few people. That sort of proves itself. If you can document that truthfully where people can watch it. Then well. Nothing is more powerful then that. You sort of have an obsession with studies really. Don't think you really understand what they are for. But nutrition does do studies so they have the documents. I knew from the start that you're really just arguing to argue. It was obvious. You’re trying to prove how much you know by proving how much you actually don’t know. It is a very circular argument.

I have long known that the cells in our body use what fats are available to them. If you eat bad fats they will use the bad fats and it affects your body and mind. Your body will use what is there for it to use. Just like if you build a house with crap lumber, the end result can be a wobbly house. What you eat affects alot of things.

When you cook food, if it is over cooked it actually changes some of its components chemical structure. Depending on what components your talking about and the temperature. What happens is it can alter parts of foods so that actually become unhealthy. This is especially true of fats and is how trans fats come to be. You can make trans fats right in your kitchen. Just like heat can put chemicals together or break them apart, it can also alter them.

We evolved on a certian diet. In the last 50 years or so we have totally gotten away from eating healthy things. The average person in the US eats HORRIBLE. Heat actually damages many things in food. It can especially make meats bad for you. However, with meats you need to be concerned with bacteria and parasites. This is why some cultures smoke and eat meat raw. Germans have a kind of meat they prepare somehow and eat raw.

You can treat alot of illnesses with diet, though there can be limitations. The pharmaceutical industry tries to blame it all on genes because it makes people feel helpless and that the only treatment is the patented one they have. The health of people in the US is SOOO bad compared to other parts of the world. You have no idea. It has alot to do with our capitalism and is very sad. We take capitalism a bit too far. It has good sides, but it really doesn't belong in medicine, education, or academic studies.

Another fact is that the national food pyramid, both the new and the old are BS. There are books about it. I know of one book I ran across by one of the old national health advisors that worked in Washington. The food pyramid we have is more about selling grains, then it actually being needed as the main staple of our diet. It has more to do with the ability to store dry foods then it does about what we should be eating. It is business as usual. People who know what they are talking about want it changed, but business types hold the reins.

 

[EveWasFramed]

You know, you two can debate these issues until the cows come home and neither of you is going to change your opinion on anything, so why keep on with this?
Perhaps it would be better to continue this debate in PM.

 

[Skorian]

Well I emailed them. Maybe I will call them.

It is not all that easy to track down just any studies really. Perhaps because I generally don’t spend much time looking for studies. Sometimes they are given where things are said. What is funny though is that studies don’t mean squat. I know of so many studies that have used trickery. Large corporations can purchase studies to say about anything. There are companies where that is what they do. They produce studies to support products. Then corrupt businesses convince people the only proof worth anything is studies. You can also play with statistics till they will seem to say almost anything. It is total balony that people aren’t bright enough to know anything that makes anecdotes worth anything. Anecdotes are worth a lot. So many double blind studies are flawed. The two are equal really. Either one can be lied in or the truth can be told. Double blind studies also often make the mistake where they don’t account for a lot of variables, which renders them useless.

I find it more useful to look into how things work and that can be shown by a verifiable means. Once you understand how things work, then it is fairly easy to fix whatever it is.

Claiming that a video that shows people curing their diabetes isn't proof, just because it is a documentary is absurd. Is like saying documenting climbing Mt. Everest as a documentary isn't a climbing expedition. Personally I think he needs to prove to himself that it is legit. That is the only way to learn something. You look into it yourself with an open mind.

The thing is I suppose I should mention that my chiropractor is into this sort of stuff. She has a bunch of degrees and relies heavily on using all sorts of diagnostic tests that she sends all over the country to the same labs as hospitals. My mother was crippled and in a wheel chair where she could barely walk due to arthritis. She went to several doctors and they made her worse. They couldn't even figure out what she had. She found this chiropractor and within weeks started to get well. She walks normal now. All because of nutrition. I have had my own experiences.

She has people come to her from states away and performs what some would consider miracles I guess, but there is no magic in it. It is all science and understanding how things work. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Jack doesn't have a clue what he is talking about at all. This documentary is not a hypothesis, it is evidence on it's own. There is documentation on it somewhere.

 

[Jack Kerouac]

You just don't understand what scientific research is and why it is important for advocates of health treatments to give scientific evidence for their claims.

I understand that you're not used to looking for scientific studies, because truth isn't actually what you're after. You're after anything that can reassure you that the world you live in is one giant conspiracy. That's not how you get at truth. At least you were able to find one study that showed a vegan diet can lesson some symptoms of diabetes, that's great- but it still didn't support the idea that diabetes is reversable in 30 days by a raw food diet. I'm going to give you credit for trying though.

You still completely fail to understand reality though by your inability to get that scientific research requires more than a few subjects, and that documentaries can be biased based on the intent of the person putting the money into them. And anything that comes from Oprah especially, or involves ANY spiritual leaders of any kind, is probably going to be a load of nonsense that tells people what they want to hear.

And your responce about weight loss- Bottom line, you shouldn't shoot to lose more than 1 or 2 pounds a week if you want to limit muscle mass loss. That's all that needs to be said about that.

 

[VanillaCreme]

If only that really worked. :< I heard somewhere that insulin doesn't work on a lot of people either.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

I know this much...

What works for me might kill you and what works for you might kill me.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Exactly. Like most all medications or remedies.

 

[Skorian]

I challenge people to have the courage to watch this video. Stop being chicken.

A google search of "I cured diabetes diet" comes up with 21 million hits. This is alot. The question I must ask is why don't you know that it can be cured by diet and why are you so paranoid? You’re going to tell me all these are sales gimmicks? There are just ordinary folks out there showing others how to do it. The problem is many refuse to believe. Even doctors that have a patient do it right in front of them refuse to believe. It challenges everything they believe in and many are not able to accept it.

You need to challenge what you believe here. People all over the world have cured their diabetes by learning what they need to do to do so. It has been known LONG before these guys doing this video were doing it. There are different methods then just this video, but they are all likely doing a great many things in common. I would say 60% to 70% can probably cure their diabetes. The key factor is having the willpower to do what you have to. If you don't follow through or know what you are doing, then of course that won't result in good results. The means by which you can cure diabetes does not involve any risk if your not careless... The only risk is in not following through or knowing what your doing. You monitor your blood sugar along the way and as shown on this video as your body naturally starts taking control of its blood sugar again then you tailor what you eat and the amount of insulin along the way. Those who are suffering from more extreme cases should probably look into getting help at a resort such as The Tree of Life. Where experts can monitor your condition. Junk foods tend to be highly addictive and can be very hard for people to get off. High glycemic carbs themselves tend to closely fit the profile of addiction, because they are tied into the production of seratonin (a brain chemical). No one is claiming a drastic lifestyle change is easy and this is why more people don't do it. Which is why places like The Tree of Life exist. Of course the problem here is most people may not be able to afford it. I don't know what they charge. I will say though that many times people in nutrition charge very little compared to other fields, because they are very motivated to help people. There are always exceptions though. Of course insurance probably doesn't cover it. Changing ones diet radically can be almost impossible for some, but once you do it a while it can get much easier. The proof really is in the fact that those who do it, prove it. But never leave blood sugar unmonitored or out of check.

The body has insane regenerative capabilities. The certian conditions need to be met though. There are people in the field of nutrition trying to understand why some children can regenerate parts of limbs. It is pretty rare and generally only seen in young children. I am talking about parts that have been chopped off. Some day it may be possible if someone looses a leg to just grow it back. And I am not even talking about stem cell research.

You just don't understand what scientific research is and why it is important for advocates of health treatments to give scientific evidence for their claims.

I fully understand what scientific research is. Which is why they do do studies. Which is why I have contacted them and asked them about what studies they have available. You have to understand I am only arguing with you as you are a devils advocate to the argument. Your being used *evil grin* It is obvious that you think you know what your talking about, but don’t. If you cure something it is cured and that is proof. These individuals behind the Tree of Life program know enough that I am very certian they know what they are talking about. Sure there are frauds in the health industry, just like every industry, but you simply don't understand what your talking about. You don't know what I have been through or know. To you the average doctor I suppose seems smart, but to me they are only good for some simple things. Broken bones, burning off warts, getting lab work done that you then take from them and read for yourself. Which I am more then happy to listen to their opinion, but many are not very bright.

You have to understand that the drug industry is just as ass backwards as the automotive industry. There is zero need for us to be driving gas-fueled cars. We have the technology for much better, but the gas industry flat out suppresses it. Do you really think that a business that sells insulin would support anything that devastates their market share? Heck no, they actually fund smear campaigns to try to scare people away from anything that threatens to take away millions of dollars of their income. They actually outright influence textbook companies so that textbooks say what they want them to say. They try really hard to influence colleges and academia. Money is power and power buys influence. There are legal ways for them to bribe. It really isn’t complicated. Many doctors have favorite medications that they like to prescribe. One reason being that they can get perks for writing enough prescriptions. It is sort of like in the boy scouts kids can get prizes for selling enough products. Doctors get free paid vacations and the like. And guess who pays for it? It is a fact. No conspiracy, just greed. It is human nature. I have to wonder how many decades germs were known about before they were accepted and acknowledged. Those who lead science are always mocked. It has been that way since the dawn of man. That is just the way it is. Greed is not a conspiracy, it is a reality. Sure some people do it out of pure ignorance. Average doctors are not out to get anyone. They want to help people, but at the same time are lazy and just as human as most people.

You have to understand that I know enough that even without knowing what a product is said to do, I can read it’s ingredients and know what it is for. I can look at nutritional products and generally know enough to determine myself if their claims are ******** or not. I know what different vitamins, minerals, amino acids, fatty acids, and some other compounds do. So many nutritional products “are” a crock, but many many others are not. Diet pills in general are bad for you and BS. The only way to really lose weight is by eating right. There are no real shortcuts. Some diet products can help a bit, but people want to take pills and still eat horrible and that just won’t work. Reality only works certain ways.

Priest is on steroids. That is why he is that big. Muscle can look like fat when you’re huge and not flexing, so that can be misleading. There is some propaganda going on there. Most before and after pictures are a farce. They admit to it if you know where to look. They advertise products and generally do not use them. Many many bodybuilding products are a load of crap. Pretty much everyone in the major leagues of bodybuilding are on steroids. It is simply not possible to get that large otherwise. Even if they are saying they aren’t you can count on it that they are. They just lie because it is illegal.

Several of the doctors behind this video are very accredited. I guess you could say they are geniuses. They make the average doctor look like a man in a monkey suit. So if people choose to listen to them or not is up to them. They are out to help people, but can’t force anyone. You can lead a camel to water, but you can’t make him drink. If your doctor says it is impossible then make sure you can prove you had diabetes and prove him wrong. If you can get him to listen, then he can learn something.

I understand that you're not used to looking for scientific studies, because truth isn't actually what you're after. You're after anything that can reassure you that the world you live in is one giant conspiracy. That's not how you get at truth. At least you were able to find one study that showed a vegan diet can lesson some symptoms of diabetes, that's great- but it still didn't support the idea that diabetes is reversable in 30 days by a raw food diet. I'm going to give you credit for trying though.

Scientific studies do not always have truth…. I have read many. I have seen many torn to shreds that were accepted by so-called academia. Some people have much much higher standards then even your so-called peer reviewed independent study organizations. Many, supposedly independent, studies done are so “not” independent.

As far as this diet, studies exist, but the world is a huge place. Try finding them yourself. Your whole argument rests on ignorance. Lack of watching the film. Lack of knowing what you’re actually arguing against. Lack of a willingness to learn. Lack of a willingness to challenge yourself. In a way you make it all my responsibility by taking none yourself. It isn’t my fault that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Your argument lacks teeth. I challenge you to “prove” that diet does not cure diabetes. Prove the documentary is faked. It is people just like you that stand in the way of progress. You can’t even recognize truth when you see it.

You still completely fail to understand reality though by your inability to get that scientific research requires more than a few subjects, and that documentaries can be biased based on the intent of the person putting the money into them. And anything that comes from Oprah especially, or involves ANY spiritual leaders of any kind, is probably going to be a load of nonsense that tells people what they want to hear.

Of course documentaries can be full of ****, but it depends how they are done. I have seen many documentaries that I laugh at or just shut off because they are full of bull. A big factor is how they are done. Many are very well done and can be extremely powerful and informative. Your arguments all rest totally on one sided thinking. You seem to lack the ability to acknowledge that you undermine your own ability to learn. I see you repeatedly taking things out of context and using them in ways that can’t be applied in every case. There are many many factors involved that you completely side step and deny the relevance of. You also seem to only read your own words and not even see what I have said. Even if I address something you keep repeating it like you don’t understand something. It is also obvious that you are blinded by a bias that is miss directed.

And your responce about weight loss- Bottom line, you shouldn't shoot to lose more than 1 or 2 pounds a week if you want to limit muscle mass loss. That's all that needs to be said about that.

This is not always true. In general losing too much weight is not healthy. Which I explained the "details" of why. Many people can lose massive amounts of weight just by changing their diet, which can help to eliminate pounds of undigested waste. Their cells often can be inflamed and carry excess water weight.

If only that really worked. :< I heard somewhere that insulin doesn't work on a lot of people either.

It does really work Vanilla.

If someone becomes too insulin resistant, then insulin would not work for them anymore. When that happens, they die. It means cells cannot accept glucose anymore and those cells will starve.

I know this much...

What works for me might kill you and what works for you might kill me.

Saying a healthy diet can kill you is like saying drinking the right amounts of water can kill you

 

[Skorian]

The real key to this whole argument is that plain as day those industries responsible for causing diabetes in the first place were not made to prove their products were really safe. They do studies and they amount to nearly nothing. Which just goes to show how effective some areas of science are. Goes to show how effective studies are. Which just validates what I have said.

They then make it the responsibility of other fields to prove that what always kept diabetes in check is why they got diabetes in the first place. We are not even talking about a cure here really, but a way to remove the causes that keep diabetes going. The cure for diabetes is not the diet, but the cells in our very body. They body is it's own cure. We can’t just eat anything we want and not face consequences.

Which they have studies, but you’re to clueless to even acknowledge. If you are so good at finding them, then do it.


It is so frustrating how ignorant and dense people can be. Can’t even be bothered to challenge what they believe. GRRRRRR. *Pulls own hair*

It is like people who refuse to acknowledge that there were no WMD's in Iraq.

*wonders if he should join a eugenics movement* Maybe they do have the right idea.

 

[Steel]

Ok, enough Skorian. I find the comments about eugenics exceedingly distasteful, and labelling those whom disagree with you as "ignorant and dense" is nothing but an insult. I have not watched this documentary, simply because I have not had time to do so, but defending it with a zealot-like fervour is perhaps blinding you to the many good points your critics have raised.

If you cannot behave in a civilised manner, then this thread will be locked.

Coincidentally, a google search of "Steel is great" comes up with 111 million hits.

 

[Skorian]

Jack you express Men's health as being reliable to you. Here is an article in men’s health explaining that diabetes can be cured. http://www.menshealth.com/cda/artic...item=4a935e4e40fae010VgnVCM20000012281eac____

Steel. Diabetes can be cured. It is a fact. It isn't in question. If you believe that it can’t be, then you need to ask the question of why it is that you believe that, because you have been deceived. Arguing that it can't be cured is like arguing that water is not wet.

I rebutted the disagreements anyway, but it has been rather moot since the start.

 

[wannabeXL]

Diabetes can't be cured. Diabetes Type 2 can be treated or controlled by taking insulin, losing weight, and eating a healthy diet, but it can't be cured or reversed. Once the damage has been done, it's been done. The cause if diabetes itself is not known - how can you cure something whose cause isn't fully known? Perhaps a cure for diabetes will be actually developed in the future, but we're not advanced enough to have one now.

I haven't seen the video, but then if there was a video challenging the belief that 1+1=2, I'm not really in a hurry to watch it either. And incidentally, I've never been a fan of Neal D. Barnard. You can never trust anyone who likes animals a little too much.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

Saying what works for me might kill you and what works for you might kill me, is like
saying what works for you might kill me and what works for me might kill you.

Well, if you're drinking the right amount of water when you're drowning, it'll kill you too.lmao
BTW, If you go to mexico...don't drink the water, man....

Holy crap Steel got his ass hitted on over a million times ???? Now I'm really jealous.

 

[Skorian]

Diabetes can't be cured. Diabetes Type 2 can be treated or controlled by taking insulin, losing weight, and eating a healthy diet, but it can't be cured or reversed. Once the damage has been done, it's been done.

The body’s cells die and are reborn many many times throughout our lives. So if cells are reborn, then how can they be too sick to ever recover? They are new and fresh as if you are being reborn. Of course to do this they need certian things and will be sickly if not given them.

The cause if diabetes itself is not known -

Quote from above: It’s important for us to understand the cause of diabetes. If I had a patient who had diabetes, and I pulled out one muscle cell from their leg or their arm, and I looked at it, blew it up big with a microscope, we’d see the cause of diabetes. Keep in mind what this glucose that’s built up in the blood is there for. It’s supposed to power our cells; it’s supposed to keep our muscle cells moving. Well, if the insulin key arrives at the surface of the cell, and it can’t open the channels to let glucose in, why not? Well if I look at this big muscle cell, I see that it looks different from a muscle cell from somebody who doesn’t have diabetes. It’s different because it’s full of little fat droplets. Imagine if I have a perfectly good key for my front door, and I go away and I come back and my key no longer opens the door. Because it’s full of fat globules. Yeah, somebody put gum in my lock; it doesn’t work very well.

how can you cure something whose cause isn't fully known?

Do you not realize that a great many things are known, curable, and have been a long time? We can actually see atoms. So you think we can't look at cells and see what is going on? We can. To make your statement true for what many in medicine follow you must understand that for this statement to be true it must read more like this.

How can you patent a cure for something whose cause can't be treated by any patent able compound so as to make the cause appear unknown?

Perhaps a cure for diabetes will be actually developed in the future, but we're not advanced enough to have one now.

A "cure" will never generate enough money to be worth it by the industries that you are looking to for answers. A treatment is all they are interested in. Expecting a cure is like expecting the tobacco industry to not sell tobacco, because it is unhealthy. Do you think people in the pharmaceutical industry are any more trustworthy as a whole then those in the tobacco industry? They are just people doing their job to make money. Nothing more, nothing less. Corporations exist to generate profit. The most aggressive industries will seek the most profitable means. They will also protect their market shares at all costs. It is just business. In general all large corporations are aggressive. In general the larger, the more aggressive. Which means it is in the interest of their profit to go outside the company to change public opinion to one favorable to them, often by any means humanly possible. The most well known means to do this is through advertising, but many industries go much further then this. The more aggressive a business the more money they can make. Which gives an incentive for dishonesty. A crime not caught or publicly know is a crime not committed. It is just business.

I used to play Everquest years ago. It is an online game owned by Sony aka SOE. At one point it started going around that people had found documents written by one of the CEO's of Sony. I looked at them and well. I don't remember his name or the location of the documents, but that CEO was pure evil. Many top executives view people as little more then walking talking wads of cash to be manipulated, used, and robbed. They can turn around and be super nice, but under it all are evil.

My aunt very much fits the mold of a rich evil witch. She has an attitude that is very common. If you are not rich then your nothing.


I haven't seen the video, but then if there was a video challenging the belief that 1+1=2, I'm not really in a hurry to watch it either. And incidentally, I've never been a fan of Neal D. Barnard. You can never trust anyone who likes animals a little too much.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

You can't eat meat and you can't eat cheese and you can't eat eggs and eating fruits and veggies is not healthy either....lmao
If I say fish...there's damn mercury in the fishies and whatever the hell else that's in the water.lmao
If I say wheat, corn or rice..there's damn pesticide in those too...lol
If I say chicken..there damn growth hormons in the damn chicken feed...probably.
If I say pig, that's probably going to be a fucken sin too..lmao

If i say its daytime where I'm at. It's night time probably.
If I say I see white...Nope that's not right either, becuase we actaully see the rest of the colours but not white..lmao

Eating a healthy diet is a far cry from a cure to whatever the hell.
That's like saying if you run better octain fuel in your car it's going repair leaking valves or rings around the pistons.

Besides...it takes 9 months to a year for the human body to completely regenerate all the cells in the human body...
so the experts say.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Steel. Diabetes can be cured. It is a fact. It isn't in question. If you believe that it can’t be, then you need to ask the question of why it is that you believe that, because you have been deceived. Arguing that it can't be cured is like arguing that water is not wet.

Skorian:

WHy is that when mod calls you on passing insults, you say that they are disagreeing with your argument? Reading his post, Steel in NO WAY said he agreed or disagreed with anything that you said.
He said that he finds "comments about eugenics exceedingly distasteful, and labelling those whom disagree with you as "ignorant and dense" is nothing but an insult."
This statement was in no way agreeing or disagreeing with anything.
Yet your response, instead of acknowledging your behavior, was to go on about diabetes again! His purpose for posting was to warn you about insults, not to argue about diabetes. Are you really not getting that??

 

[Zak]

Is diabetics by high blood sugar level?
Well then it can be cured with other medicines like Ayurvedic and stuff. I know a guy who had high blood sugar level and done some Ayurvedic treatment and probably got overdosed with it and after some months I heard he is admitted in hospital cos he fainted of "low" blood sugar level. I was like WTF

 

[Haven]

My opinion on the topic after seeing the documentary I still cant see it as a cure. Its more like a different form of medication to me they still have the diabetes but they don't need the insulin. Honestly to brag about it being a cure is a little farfetched. Almost like false advertisement because instead getting rid of the problem they are simply repressing it. Hopefully you wont think of me as ignorant after see the this. Until a lot more professionals agree with this method of handling diabetes I wouldn't suggest to any one with diabetes to give it a try without a large majority of specailist or professionals to give guarantee of the raw foods diet.

 

[Zak]

Until a lot more professionals agree with this method of handling diabetes I wouldn't suggest to any one with diabetes to give it a try without a large majority of specailist or professionals to give guarantee of the raw foods diet.

True that.