A jaguarundi guide to finding someone

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Grackle said:
I don't understand why anyone would poo poo what Jag is doing ?? At least she is offering advice, giving up her time in hopes of helping someone.
These are tips, not a written rule in how people are SUPPOSE to go about it. And as all tips or suggestions go .... take it or leave it.

I'm sorry, but because I don't agree with her tips, that means I'm "poo pooing" her? And since I don't have a thread, that means I'm not trying to help people?

Just because a person doesn't agree with her and offers their reasons WHY does not mean they aren't being helpful. This is a public forum, which means anyone can post whatever they want (so long as no rules are broken). I don't really understand why someone saying something that go against what Jag has said is considered bad. I'm sorry, but if I see something I don't agree with, I WILL chime in and say so and give my reasons why. That's my right to do and I will continue to do that, whether someone else likes it or not.
 
TheRealCallie said:
Grackle said:
I don't understand why anyone would poo poo what Jag is doing ?? At least she is offering advice, giving up her time in hopes of helping someone.
These are tips, not a written rule in how people are SUPPOSE to go about it. And as all tips or suggestions go .... take it or leave it.

I'm sorry, but because I don't agree with her tips, that means I'm "poo pooing" her? And since I don't have a thread, that means I'm not trying to help people?

Just because a person doesn't agree with her and offers their reasons WHY does not mean they aren't being helpful. This is a public forum, which means anyone can post whatever they want (so long as no rules are broken). I don't really understand why someone saying something that go against what Jag has said is considered bad. I'm sorry, but if I see something I don't agree with, I WILL chime in and say so and give my reasons why. That's my right to do and I will continue to do that, whether someone else likes it or not.

Well said.
 
jaguarundi said:
Most research shows that body language is at least as important to people's perceptions as what someone actually says.

I repeat that I have tested these techniques and they really work. I used not be good with people, and tended to feel useless and clumsy in this respect. Now I don't, by and large.

You clearly think that I am wrong, but I reiterate - years of practice - in very stressful work situations that used to make me vomit before difficult meetings before I tried this stuff - have integrated this into who I am. I feel that I became the person that I was meant to be - although I have no doubt that there is room for improvement. Before I was less than I could be, or deserved to be.

In any case, if you are listening to what someone says rather than talking yourself, you will have time to match a bit of body language, and it really does not take any thought at all if you practice a bit first, as I have suggested.

It is your intention that makes something manipulative. If a man tells me he loves me to get me into bed - that is manipulative. If a woman takes a guy because he is rich - so might that be. Everyone tries to influence. If you have integrity when you use these techniques, really like a person and want them to like you, I think you deserve to have the skills to take your best shot.

Why not give it a go yourself - a serious go, not a 'lets do this to prove jag was wrong' kind of a go. If you don't want to - that's fine, but I know from PM's and posts that there are people out there who are trying some of these hints and tips and are finding them useful. I would love it if you did, too....

Well, it's not that I think you are wrong, more that these kinds of tactics aren't suited for everyone, nor for every situation that involves people. I don't think they will work for me because I have no problems making other people feel relaxed or safe around me, really the problem I have is making myself feel OK, and to be aware of these techniques in the first place is to be on the lookout for them: "I just scratched my head but she didn't do the same... what am I doing wrong?", "Haha I saw you scratch your head after I scratched mine that means you're flirting with me and want my approval, lol!" to which she will reply "You're weird" and leave.

I know about body language and understand it well enough to get by, but I really don't see any logic at all in synchronised breathing on a date.

It's just, I think of a relationship between two people (I guess we're mostly all thinking about the traditional exclusive relationship here, although these "skills" will broadly apply to friendships too) as something a bit more... "special" than say a job interview, where you're not-so-shamefully trying to win and sell yourself to the rat race. I step back here and ask myself "Do i think it's more acceptable to use these skills in a job interview rather than a date?" and I think my answer is yes, perhaps in the same way I think it's slightly-almost-a-little-bit not so bad to steal from a large corporation rather than from a small independent shop - it's still wrong but if you need to do it then go ahead. A bit of a daft analogy there, I know, but I'm tired and took the effort to write it anyway so there it is!
 
Im not 100% sure that Jag meant that every time you go on a date, that you need to sync your breathing with the other person. :p
I might have misread, so I will apologize in advance, but it seemed to me that her suggestion was more an example than a true suggestion. Also, some of her suggestions can be applied to all areas of human interaction. Building rapport with people is a very useful skill to have. I'm sure that not everyone (myself included) would find every single suggestion useful for themselves, but I think that in this thread in particular, we all should take what we can from it.
No advice is going to be a cure-all...but hopefully some of the suggestions by everyone who has contributed will be helpful for some of the members here. :)
 
I haven't read this thread in its entirety - looks like I have some catching up to do. But so far I agree with Jag on this - there are some things, some ways of conducting yourself, which work better than others, and some things which turn people off outright 9 times out of 10. Again, I've never been in a relationship myself, but I've observed and talked to many people who have, or are currently in them, and I've noticed a lot of common phenomena. There's always random elements of course, but I think Jaguarundi is doing a good thing here trying to help some of us out who for some reason or another don't get it, or didn't accrue the experiences to get it ourselves at the same time most people do. I do believe for the most part that relationships are a skill and attraction is a process, and that people can take some of the power into their hands in this arena of life.

I also don't think changing for people is a bad idea either. If for example you are a fat alcoholic chain-smoker, then decide to start working out, put the booze back on the shelf and quit smoking so that you can become attractive to the opposite ***, is as good a reason to quit as any. Some ways of living are better than others, and relationships tend to favor those with optimal lifestyles.

My own vice is not having a job. Part of my motivation of getting one is that so I come off as being in more control of my life, which will increase my attractiveness. It's also a part, notice I say part and not all, of my reasons for adopting an exercise routine and for wanting to become more interesting. Whatever my reasons, it's helping me find the inspiration to get out of my jam and become better. Would someone accept me as I am? Probably not, and if they did, it's probably not someone who would share the values I want. Maybe if I didn't know that, I might not be as motivated to change myself.
 
I agree with Skafish about embracing change. If there are things about you that are having a negative impact in your life, then why not change? I understand that its difficult, no doubts there, but I think being open to it is far more beneficial than being against it. After all, what's there to lose?

Of course, don't change just to get a man or a woman. I think if that alone is one's motivation than it may not be a very successful attempt at long term change. Mainly because once you get into a relationship, its quite easy to lose motivation because the goal has been achieved already.

And don't change against your better judgement. For example, a lot of my previous friends dumped me once I started to abstain from alcohol. And even now, a lot of guys get turned off when I tell them I don't drink. But I remind myself that its more important for me to be sober than to have a bf/friends and making myself sick.

Sometimes we have to change things we like about ourselves, but again the question is about priorities. When I was younger, my eccentric dress sense was very important to me, it was my sense of identity. But no guy even looked at my direction. Then I changed, and it felt like a superficial thing to do, to dress more like the other girls. Interestingly, after a few years, I stopped caring about clothes and fashion. And eventhough I'm still completely unlucky at relationships, at least I get a few second glances, which is so much more fulfilling that being the old me. So it turned out to be a compromise well worth it! :D
 
jaguarundi said:
Batters my friend, if you don't want to - or in your case cannot - try everything possible to get a romantic relationship, then forget about it, and just be happy as you are. Being happy and content with your life - isn't that what most people want anyway?

I feel like it may be realistic to try a few little things, just a few slight changes here and there... but if it really takes everything, like for example if I had to try everything you've suggested in your guide, then it's not worth it for me. Because it would be like splitting my personality in half with an axe.

The question then remains if small changes, and perhaps the momentum gained if I keep at it, will be enough to allow me to have even a slight chance of meeting someone...


painter said:
No wonder so many relationships fail when everyone is playing these headgames and going out of their way to be dishonest. Whatever happened to just being yourself? You don't have to mimic people's gestures and breathing (wtf?!) to let them know you are interested in what they are saying. I suppose "guides" like this one are for people who are very, very unconscious about how to behave in society, not self-aware enough to spot when they are sitting like a slob with their hand in their pants and farting at the 5 star restaurant table on a first date... people who lack common sense. But these lovely deceitful social experiments will massively overcomplicate things for these kinds of people.

Maybe you are just being facetious, but still that is just taking it too far. No that is not the kind of people this guide is written for. It is more for folks with heavy introversion or social anxiety, or a difficulty in expressing confidence. Stuff that comes natural for many if not most, but not everyone.

As for deceit and the requirement to fake things in order to pass as a confident, socially-oriented person, that is something I can agree with to an extent.. it is a huge conflict for me, and others. But I've said enough on this.
 
painter said:
Well, it's not that I think you are wrong, more that these kinds of tactics aren't suited for everyone, nor for every situation that involves people. I don't think they will work for me because I have no problems making other people feel relaxed or safe around me, really the problem I have is making myself feel OK, and to be aware of these techniques in the first place is to be on the lookout for them: "I just scratched my head but she didn't do the same... what am I doing wrong?", "Haha I saw you scratch your head after I scratched mine that means you're flirting with me and want my approval, lol!" to which she will reply "You're weird" and leave.

I know about body language and understand it well enough to get by, but I really don't see any logic at all in synchronised breathing on a date.

It's just, I think of a relationship between two people (I guess we're mostly all thinking about the traditional exclusive relationship here, although these "skills" will broadly apply to friendships too) as something a bit more... "special" than say a job interview, where you're not-so-shamefully trying to win and sell yourself to the rat race. I step back here and ask myself "Do i think it's more acceptable to use these skills in a job interview rather than a date?" and I think my answer is yes, perhaps in the same way I think it's slightly-almost-a-little-bit not so bad to steal from a large corporation rather than from a small independent shop - it's still wrong but if you need to do it then go ahead. A bit of a daft analogy there, I know, but I'm tired and took the effort to write it anyway so there it is!

I don't necessarily agree with micromanaging body language either, it does sound a bit neurotic and tiresome. But it's advice you can take or leave, and it's hard to see what's "deceptive" about it.

At least it might make people think about it to the extent that they start making eye-contact and start talking to the other person instead of at them or into space.
 
a lot of women avoid looking at me when they talk to me at work (I don't blame them !) but it makes me like them less.
Something as simple as eye contact is attractive to me.
 
I find eye contact attractive as well. It shows a certain intimacy, doesn't have to be sexual but it just connects 2 people even if its for a couple of seconds.
 
********************************************************

One last word about change before I move on to the final 2 tips:

“To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.” ― Winston Churchill

WARNING this video contains scenes some people may find disturbing. Others may think "So that's what happened to Uncle Albert and Cousin Aggie...😸

[youtube]5rAOyh7YmEc[/youtube]
 
Finally

I have said a great deal about negativity, how it is something that you should try and avoid in yourself. But it can be difficult to maintain when you are first trying to change. If you were trying to give up smoking you would avoid situations where people are smoking, at least in the beginning. Same with alcohol and drugs. A diet - don't go into a chocolate/cake/fastfood outlet.

When you avoiding negativity in yourself, you would be well advised to avoid negative people, as well. If you have a circle of friends who spend all or most of their time complaining about pretty much everything from the the price of gas to their husband, girlfriend, their football team, government - anything really, it is after a while, a downer that will bring you down with it. Now a bit of a moan now and again is OK, we all need a vent from time to time and that is OK. But if there is a lot of negativity going on, you need to take a bit of distance from it.

Even worse are those people who are bitter or jealous. The kind of people who are always amused at other peoples' misfortune, and prefer to tear down and attack rather than help or build. Such people will, if you succeed in finding what you want, be it a relationship, new job, friend or whatever, do their best to poison it for you. Why? Some people only feel good about themselves when they are trashing somebody else. It is in fact very sad that they have to be like this, but be aware that any success you have will make them start attacking you, either to your face or behind your back. The best way not to let them get to you, is to avoid them.

Think hard about your circle of friends, and what you talk about when you are with them. If any of what I have said rings true, you would be better off seeing a lot less of them. In some cases you might want to never see them again. Harsh? Maybe. But you cannot change other people, only yourself. And you might suddenly find one day that you are noticing how some of your companions are no longer people you want to be with, that you would prefer to be around people who mostly generate happiness and positivity, not the opposite.

Tip 9 Look at the company you keep. If it is dominated by negative, bitter or permanently angry people, avoid them. If it isn't you already, it will be in a few years time.

Final Tip. My dog is a rescue animal. When he came to live at my expense he was a pathetic waif who had never had a good dinner, much less, I think, a bone. The first time I gave him a nice, raw beef shin bone in the garden, his little face lit up and he immediately tried to bring it into through the back door, into the house to gnaw it in comfort on the best rug. I wouldn't let him. I took him back outside, gave it back to him. He tried again. We did this about three or four times, then he stood still a minute, and suddenly went off around the house. There he stood at the front door, trying to get me to let him in there with it. I think that was quite smart for a little dog. What he did wasn't working, so - he tried a different approach, quite literally.

How many of you are wanting something - anything - and trying the same thing over and over, despite the fact that it isn't working? Are you less smart than a mongrel dog? Admittedly even that didn't work for him, he still isn't allowed a bone in the house. But my goodness, he gave it a good try. Respect, Trojie! And I did get him some special chewy treats that he can eat in the house, so he didn't do too badly.

I have given you all kinds of tips and advice, take it, don't take it. It's up to you. But for god's sake, if you have been trying over and over and getting nowhere, then find some other options and give them a go.

Tip 10 If what you are doing isn't working, try ANYTHING different.​

Because as the saying goes, if you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you have always got.

Is that what you want?

Really?
 
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein
 
I feel like we should pay you for making the effort to write the guide.

For every long-form article you wrote, you should get $5.00 from every member that read it. If that seems too high or low for you, then perhaps you should suggest the right price...
 

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