A jaguarundi guide to finding someone

[EveWasFramed]

Yessssssssssssssssss (goo) lol

 

[Batman55]

Hopefully this isn't too off-topic. I would ponder that for some men (or women), the facts of everything required for a LTR are so overwhelming and painful, it may be better for their own health, and the emotional state of a prospective partner, to perhaps accept that they shouldn't enter into one. (At least not before you've tested the waters enough to know what it's really like.)

I stress that I'm not trying to spread a defeatist attitude here, but to ask an interesting question: Is it possible to have close human contact in small doses--basically, greater than the concept of friendship and lesser than the concept of joining at the hip for an indefinite period, friends and family and financial compatibility and judgment and emotional destruction and mental hospital visits and all? (Well, tis how I see it for myself. I can't handle someone telling me I walk funny... think I could handle a relationship? )

 

[jaguarundi]

Hopefully this isn't too off-topic. I would ponder that for some men (or women), the facts of everything required for a LTR are so overwhelming and painful, it may be better for their own health, and the emotional state of a prospective partner, to perhaps accept that they shouldn't enter into one. (At least not before you've tested the waters enough to know what it's really like.)

I stress that I'm not trying to spread a defeatist attitude here, but to ask an interesting question: Is it possible to have close human contact in small doses--basically, greater than the concept of friendship and lesser than the concept of joining at the hip for an indefinite period, friends and family and financial compatibility and judgment and emotional destruction and mental hospital visits and all? (Well, tis how I see it for myself. I can't handle someone telling me I walk funny... think I could handle a relationship? )

Could you handle a relationship? Hard to say really. If you see yourself as touchy, a bit anti-social and basically not good with people - and that is a true reflection of yourself, then a partner might well either have to have the same qualities as you, or the patience of a saint. And two touchy people in a relationship might well fight like rabid weasels in a sack, or at any rate end up not on speaking terms very quickly...

If you can actually find the kind of relationship thing you seem to be asking for - I would say that what anyone gets up to as long as they are consenting adults and know the ground rules in the beginning, why not? Problems can arise if the ground rules change ie one partner comes to want much more than the other. But frankly no relationship ever has any real guarantees. The only constant is that there is no magic wand to wave, it all involves work of some sort - work to get one, definitely work to keep one.

If you are not prepared to change or compromise or step out of your comfort zone even one tiny little bit, you are in for a massive bloody shock when it comes to the questions like - she wants to play the new computer game, you want to go to Ikea and look at dining room tables. She wants to have the parents round, you want to go to the cinema. No one person in a relationship can ever have it all their own way, all of the time. If one does, then the other is likely to be doing all the work, all the changing, and not be having their needs met, and stuff like that can fester, and fester over time, until the boil bursts and there is pus splattered everywhere.

All life is change. From the moment you enter the world to the day you leave it. Relationships involve change. If you don't want to change in any way, then you are not ready to have one ijho (in jag's honest opinion). Nor are you being realistic about life. Why? Because the only people who do not change are already in the cemetery. ..

 

[EveWasFramed]

No one person in a relationship can ever have it all their own way, all of the time. If one does, then the other is likely to be doing all the work, all the changing, and not be having their needs met, and stuff like that can fester, and fester over time, until the boil bursts and there is pus splattered everywhere.

All life is change. From the moment you enter the world to the day you leave it. Relationships involve change. If you don't want to change in any way, then you are not ready to have one ijho (in jag's honest opinion).

You have just described my last marriage (my ex) perfectly. One person can't do all the "changing" and all the work to keep the relationship healthy. And even if they DID, it doesn't mean the other person (the lazy one) won't still be unsatisfied and simply check out.

Wow...I can't believe all of the emotion your post brings forth from inside me, Jag. Anger, regret, sadness....

Please...if ANY of you take anything in this thread to heart, let it be that post above.
If you have no intention of ever bending for another person or stepping out of your comfort zone, expect untold heartache.

Blah.

 

[jaguarundi]

No one person in a relationship can ever have it all their own way, all of the time. If one does, then the other is likely to be doing all the work, all the changing, and not be having their needs met, and stuff like that can fester, and fester over time, until the boil bursts and there is pus splattered everywhere.

All life is change. From the moment you enter the world to the day you leave it. Relationships involve change. If you don't want to change in any way, then you are not ready to have one ijho (in jag's honest opinion).

You have just described my last marriage (my ex) perfectly. One person can't do all the "changing" and all the work to keep the relationship healthy. And even if they DID, it doesn't mean the other person (the lazy one) won't still be unsatisfied and simply check out.

Wow...I can't believe all of the emotion your post brings forth from inside me, Jag. Anger, regret, sadness....

Please...if ANY of you take anything in this thread to heart, let it be that post above.
If you have no intention of ever bending for another person or stepping out of your comfort zone, expect untold heartache.

Blah.

I seem to remember posting somewhere that something similar happened to me, but I also think I facilitated it because I so much wanted this one to work (early first marriage went poof after less than 2 years), I never asked or expected him to change. I didn't change, in a way - I found it very difficult to ask for what I needed in the relationship, because I was afraid to lose it, basically.... If I had spoken up, he might have. I don't know. Maybe not. But ultimately we both ended up unhappy, because I was not getting anything I needed, and it was indeed, festering. And you cannot live like that without it showing up in the relationship in a hundred little ways. And eventually, it was all too late....

 

[African_weasel]

^^ *chuckles*
Send in the weasels now. lol

Did somebody say weasels?

 

[jaguarundi]

^^ *chuckles*
Send in the weasels now. lol

Did somebody say weasels?

Rabid weasels.... Not African ones

 

[FreedomFromLiberty]

^^ *chuckles*
Send in the weasels now. lol

Did somebody say weasels?

African Weasel, your avatar is a... CAT. In a striped shirt.

Just thought I'd mention that.

 

[jaguarundi]

Before I get going on the theme I originally chose for this next tip, do you remember that I asked - right at the beginning - that anyone who posted on this thread try to be positive and not fill it with the kind of complaints that we see elsewhere on ALL. Why did I do that? I did it because if you are constantly negative about - well anything really - you will eventually sap your energy, destroy your confidence, make yourself an absolute pain to be around, and basically, **** your life up. And honestly, just being around a lot of negativity for too long can also drag you down with it.

I am not saying, nor would I ever say, that it is not OK to have a healthy letting off of steam to get something bad out of your system. But what happens if you are constantly returning to the theme of (to name but a few of the possibilities) - how all men are *******s, how women curse your life, how dating is impossible, how people are trivial, friends a waste of time, and on and on - and on. Even if you didn't totally believe it in the beginning, you will ultimately convince yourself.

And if you have the tendency to be a bit of a depressive or pessimistic person, I think that it is one of the worst things you can do to yourself. Truly. You are hacking away at yourself until you lose the will to do anything that might involve a bit of change, a bit of movement out of your comfort zone, a bit of something that might just possibly - be good.

So the rabid weasels are out there, as are the rancid bottled dog farts and the flying monkey deployment system. Unfortunately, as the weasels have pointed out, there are some people even a rabid foaming laser guided weasel doesn't want to bite, and what difference will a rancid dog fart make to someone who is already shovelling **** with both hands? (and no Batman 55, I do not mean you). It's actually rather sad.

So I have just decided - This is

Tip Number 2

Avoid negativity. You will never attract what you constantly complain, ***** or are angry about.​

 

[EveWasFramed]

^^ Perfect.

 

[bender22]

Couldn't agree more with your first two tips jaguarundi. Some people seem to have an innate ability to attract people and be social. For the rest of us who aren't born with those skills, we can either stagnate and never be truly satisfied or force ourselves to venture outside our comfort zones and become the people we want to be. And negativity is probably the best way to push others away from you.

Look forward to reading your next tips!

 

[Nightwing]

And negativity is probably the best way to push others away from you.

Amen. It's a wonderful tool to keep those weirdo happy people at bay

Nah, seriously, great thread Jag. The more I read, the more I feel like I'm doing things right.

 

[ardour]

Tip Number 2

Avoid negativity. You will never attract what you constantly complain, ***** or are angry about.​

What makes you think we complain in real life? Most would know how profoundly unlikable that is.

Attempts to be friendly and social often result in it being shoved right back in my face. And while there are aspects of my manner that need work (smiling at the right times, being more consistent) it's not as if anything I do or say warrants those kind of reactions. Often it is just a matter of appearance and clique factor.

You're asking unattractive, single men to remain positive after years of rejection and contempt thrown their way, which kind of invalidates a person's right to feel indignation.

On the other hand remaining polite and approachable in the face of it is kind of satisfying because it highlights people's jerkish or unsocial behaviour (causing them to regret it later.) It's also a way to stay sane and avoid drowning in bitterness. So yeah, positivity is it's own reward as long as it's without expectation of any in return.

 

[Batman55]

All life is change. From the moment you enter the world to the day you leave it. Relationships involve change. If you don't want to change in any way, then you are not ready to have one ijho (in jag's honest opinion). Nor are you being realistic about life. Why? Because the only people who do not change are already in the cemetery. ..

There's no doubt I want (and need) to change, but only to a certain point.. in terms of finding "some type" of relationship with a woman, there are some very obvious things that could be changed with some determination. The most obvious is I'm too afraid to approach women, because of social anxiety + I'm awkward, and nervousness causes my mind to blank and become tongue tied. In the rare few moments in the past when it seems like they have approached me in some way that indicated interest, I basically did nothing or answered their question in a cold and unfeeling manner. Seems like most people have instinct to rely on, but it's not there for me.

Poor dress code--this may seem odd to some folks, but I don't "dress like a guy should" because 1) I don't feel it suits my personality 2) in a sense, it is illogical to me really, dress should be more of a utilitarian thing. I think the only famous person who agrees with me is Jay Leno... outside his job as host, the only thing the guy ever wears is jeans and a denim shirt, nothing EVER different than that.. but he is a made millionaire and gets away with it. I still agree with his take, though--a gray or green sweatshirt and jeans and tennis shoes is what I prefer. But I've been told it's incredibly bland and basically highlights the lack of confidence I already have. But the other "proper dress code" I feel is misleading... if I'm not anything like most guys, why advertise myself that way?

What I'm getting at with these more cosmetic changes, basically, is while theoretically they could be made... it would also imply a social awareness and a willingness to fit in, that is the complete opposite of who I really am.

So I concede changes *must* be made to give me even a 1% chance of having a "relationship", I'm not challenging that point. But I'm confused and indecisive, and worried as well, because even these relatively simple and cosmetic changes seem contradictory, and don't line up with my penchant for going against the grain. In other words, if I'm not sure I can handle the easier stuff, how will I be able to handle the harder things... *sigh*

 

[Grackle]

I wear what I feel is right for me too and no doubt that it skirts the gender line ( pun intended) but I hate some of the fashions / options that are out there. I feel thats being honest and in a way it helps me be more secure in myself. I aim for approachability, I think its important to have a good, approachable presence about myself.

 

[jaguarundi]

Batman. What wonderful news. I almost jumped up and punched the air. You are feeling confused and uncertain. This is great!! Why - because feelings of doubt and confusion are common responses when learning something new, changing our attitudes, or changing our beliefs. . These feelings a sign that we haven't quite yet got something , or are opening our minds, preparing to move on.

One of the reasons that people do not change is because these feelings are uncomfortable, so we try to avoid them - at all costs (and believe me, it will cost you in the end). We associate them with disagreeable events, often from school or homelife. I particularly remember a struggle in Mrs Ashworth's class over what was meant by square feet, that left me utterly confused. Of course in the end I did 'get' the idea behind working out area, - didn't have much choice, Mrs Ashworth was a very determined lady...

Unfortunately as adults, and particularly in the areas involving personal changes and growth, the feelings of confusion and indecision are difficult ones, so we avoid them and stay stuck in our comfortable rut. Just regard the confusion as natures way of telling you that things are on the move. Well done - I'm proud of you. Better yet, be proud of yourself.

OK regarding clothes. Oh this one makes me smile - or grimace more like. I had hoped to avoid it completely, because, and isn't is weird, really, that items that basically cover us up and keep out the heat/cold, can be so emotive to so many people? So I am going to skip over this a bit lightly, maybe, and only as it affects finding someone. You have offered us, Batters, the exact reason why you need to wear something different when wanting to meet possible SO's. You said Jay Leno, outside his job as host, the only thing the guy ever wears is jeans and a denim shirt, nothing EVER different than that..

In other words, he wears the appropriate outfit for the occasion. Suits for work, denims for tinkering with his cars, nice (and expensive no doubt) jacket and shirt for other public occasions. Since he is not a household name in Europe, I looked him up and that is exactly what I saw of him in numerous photos. So, in relation to meeting potential partners - said it before, saying it again. Regards it as a 'job'. Wear something appropriate.

You say Batman, that you wear what you wear because it reflects your going against the grain personality. I say - hang on just a buggering minute. You are wearing exactly the kind of clothes that one would expect from someone who wants to show that they are going against the grain. So basically you are in fact going with the grain here, aren't you? If you truly wanted to show how contrary to the norm you are, go out in an actual Batman outfit. Or a cocktail dress, or a wetsuit. That'll show them your true contrary spirit.

Now I hear some of you saying, I don't really care what I wear, and surely someone should see through all of that and love me for who I am. Great. So who are you then? A person who is demonstrating that they believe someone else should do all the work of looking inside a person to find out who they are. Someone, basically whose attitude to finding someone is lazy or self-satisfied? Someone who can't even be bothered to make a quite simple effort?

And for god's sake some of you hysterical chronic over-reactors out there. By asking you to make a bit more of an effort, I am not asking any of you to leap out and buy a pair of Jimmy Choos, a tight skirt and a see though blouse - nor an Armani suit, a silk shirt and hand tooled Italian leather shoes, or whatever. Not unless you want to. But like it or not, what you wear can help or hinder you, so why let it hinder you? What are you trying to prove by doing that?

And finally on this issue. Those I-don't-want-to-put-something nicer-on people out there seem to me to be taking so much account of what they think they should be wearing, so much belief that the clothes you wear totally reflect your inner beingness of independent contrariness, tough independent woman-ness or whatever, then basically you are sounding as trivial and clothes-obsessed as the most air-headed little teenagers in the high-school, who would throw a strop and refuse to go out unless wearing the latest must-have fashion item. Not the same you say. Babies, I think it is pretty much exactly the same coin. The other side of it.

 

[Triple Bogey]

Before I get going on the theme I originally chose for this next tip, do you remember that I asked - right at the beginning - that anyone who posted on this thread try to be positive and not fill it with the kind of complaints that we see elsewhere on ALL. Why did I do that? I did it because if you are constantly negative about - well anything really - you will eventually sap your energy, destroy your confidence, make yourself an absolute pain to be around, and basically, **** your life up. And honestly, just being around a lot of negativity for too long can also drag you down with it.

I am not saying, nor would I ever say, that it is not OK to have a healthy letting off of steam to get something bad out of your system. But what happens if you are constantly returning to the theme of (to name but a few of the possibilities) - how all men are *******s, how women curse your life, how dating is impossible, how people are trivial, friends a waste of time, and on and on - and on. Even if you didn't totally believe it in the beginning, you will ultimately convince yourself.

And if you have the tendency to be a bit of a depressive or pessimistic person, I think that it is one of the worst things you can do to yourself. Truly. You are hacking away at yourself until you lose the will to do anything that might involve a bit of change, a bit of movement out of your comfort zone, a bit of something that might just possibly - be good.

So the rabid weasels are out there, as are the rancid bottled dog farts and the flying monkey deployment system. Unfortunately, as the weasels have pointed out, there are some people even a rabid foaming laser guided weasel doesn't want to bite, and what difference will a rancid dog fart make to someone who is already shovelling **** with both hands? (and no Batman 55, I do not mean you). It's actually rather sad.

So I have just decided - This is

Tip Number 2

Avoid negativity. You will never attract what you constantly complain, ***** or are angry about.​

I never do. I mostly joke about my lack of success with the ladies.

 

[FreedomFromLiberty]

Batman. What wonderful news. I almost jumped up and punched the air. You are feeling confused and uncertain. This is great!! Why - because feelings of doubt and confusion are common responses when learning something new, changing our attitudes, or changing our beliefs. . These feelings a sign that we haven't quite yet got something , or are opening our minds, preparing to move on.

One of the reasons that people do not change is because these feelings are uncomfortable, so we try to avoid them - at all costs (and believe me, it will cost you in the end). We associate them with disagreeable events, often from school or homelife. I particularly remember a struggle in Mrs Ashworth's class over what was meant by square feet, that left me utterly confused. Of course in the end I did 'get' the idea behind working out area, - didn't have much choice, Mrs Ashworth was a very determined lady...

Unfortunately as adults, and particularly in the areas involving personal changes and growth, the feelings of confusion and indecision are difficult ones, so we avoid them and stay stuck in our comfortable rut. Just regard the confusion as natures way of telling you that things are on the move. Well done - I'm proud of you. Better yet, be proud of yourself.

OK regarding clothes. Oh this one makes me smile - or grimace more like. I had hoped to avoid it completely, because, and isn't is weird, really, that items that basically cover us up and keep out the heat/cold, can be so emotive to so many people? So I am going to skip over this a bit lightly, maybe, and only as it affects finding someone. You have offered us, Batters, the exact reason why you need to wear something different when wanting to meet possible SO's. You said Jay Leno, outside his job as host, the only thing the guy ever wears is jeans and a denim shirt, nothing EVER different than that..

In other words, he wears the appropriate outfit for the occasion. Suits for work, denims for tinkering with his cars, nice (and expensive no doubt) jacket and shirt for other public occasions. Since he is not a household name in Europe, I looked him up and that is exactly what I saw of him in numerous photos. So, in relation to meeting potential partners - said it before, saying it again. Regards it as a 'job'. Wear something appropriate.

You say Batman, that you wear what you wear because it reflects your going against the grain personality. I say - hang on just a buggering minute. You are wearing exactly the kind of clothes that one would expect from someone who wants to show that they are going against the grain. So basically you are in fact going with the grain here, aren't you? If you truly wanted to show how contrary to the norm you are, go out in an actual Batman outfit. Or a cocktail dress, or a wetsuit. That'll show them your true contrary spirit.

Now I hear some of you saying, I don't really care what I wear, and surely someone should see through all of that and love me for who I am. Great. So who are you then? A person who is demonstrating that they believe someone else should do all the work of looking inside a person to find out who they are. Someone, basically whose attitude to finding someone is lazy or self-satisfied? Someone who can't even be bothered to make a quite simple effort?

And for god's sake some of you hysterical chronic over-reactors out there. By asking you to make a bit more of an effort, I am not asking any of you to leap out and buy a pair of Jimmy Choos, a tight skirt and a see though blouse - nor an Armani suit, a silk shirt and hand tooled Italian leather shoes, or whatever. Not unless you want to. But like it or not, what you wear can help or hinder you, so why let it hinder you? What are you trying to prove by doing that?

And finally on this issue. Those I-don't-want-to-put-something nicer-on people out there seem to me to be taking so much account of what they think they should be wearing, so much belief that the clothes you wear totally reflect your inner beingness of independent contrariness, tough independent woman-ness or whatever, then basically you are sounding as trivial and clothes-obsessed as the most air-headed little teenagers in the high-school, who would throw a strop and refuse to go out unless wearing the latest must-have fashion item. Not the same you say. Babies, I think it is pretty much exactly the same coin. The other side of it.

So is this rant about clothes your THIRD tip, jaguarundi?

Also, if dressing up for a relationship is a job, what exactly is the type of attire we are supposed to be wearning? Business, business-casual, casual, slovenly?

 

[SofiasMami]

Tip Number 2

Avoid negativity. You will never attract what you constantly complain, ***** or are angry about.​

What makes you think we complain in real life? Most would know how profoundly unlikable that is.

Attempts to be friendly and social often result in it being shoved right back in my face. And while there are aspects of my manner that need work (smiling at the right times, being more consistent) it's not as if anything I do or say warrants those kind of reactions. Often it is just a matter of appearance and clique factor.

You're asking unattractive, single men to remain positive after years of rejection and contempt thrown their way, which kind of invalidates a person's right to feel indignation.

On the other hand remaining polite and approachable in the face of it is kind of satisfying because it highlights people's jerkish or unsocial behaviour (causing them to regret it later.) It's also a way to stay sane and avoid drowning in bitterness. So yeah, positivity is it's own reward as long as it's without expectation of any in return.

Batman. What wonderful news. I almost jumped up and punched the air. You are feeling confused and uncertain. This is great!! Why - because feelings of doubt and confusion are common responses when learning something new, changing our attitudes, or changing our beliefs. . These feelings a sign that we haven't quite yet got something , or are opening our minds, preparing to move on.

One of the reasons that people do not change is because these feelings are uncomfortable, so we try to avoid them - at all costs (and believe me, it will cost you in the end). We associate them with disagreeable events, often from school or homelife. I particularly remember a struggle in Mrs Ashworth's class over what was meant by square feet, that left me utterly confused. Of course in the end I did 'get' the idea behind working out area, - didn't have much choice, Mrs Ashworth was a very determined lady...

Unfortunately as adults, and particularly in the areas involving personal changes and growth, the feelings of confusion and indecision are difficult ones, so we avoid them and stay stuck in our comfortable rut. Just regard the confusion as natures way of telling you that things are on the move. Well done - I'm proud of you. Better yet, be proud of yourself.

OK regarding clothes. Oh this one makes me smile - or grimace more like. I had hoped to avoid it completely, because, and isn't is weird, really, that items that basically cover us up and keep out the heat/cold, can be so emotive to so many people? So I am going to skip over this a bit lightly, maybe, and only as it affects finding someone. You have offered us, Batters, the exact reason why you need to wear something different when wanting to meet possible SO's. You said Jay Leno, outside his job as host, the only thing the guy ever wears is jeans and a denim shirt, nothing EVER different than that..

In other words, he wears the appropriate outfit for the occasion. Suits for work, denims for tinkering with his cars, nice (and expensive no doubt) jacket and shirt for other public occasions. Since he is not a household name in Europe, I looked him up and that is exactly what I saw of him in numerous photos. So, in relation to meeting potential partners - said it before, saying it again. Regards it as a 'job'. Wear something appropriate.

You say Batman, that you wear what you wear because it reflects your going against the grain personality. I say - hang on just a buggering minute. You are wearing exactly the kind of clothes that one would expect from someone who wants to show that they are going against the grain. So basically you are in fact going with the grain here, aren't you? If you truly wanted to show how contrary to the norm you are, go out in an actual Batman outfit. Or a cocktail dress, or a wetsuit. That'll show them your true contrary spirit.

Now I hear some of you saying, I don't really care what I wear, and surely someone should see through all of that and love me for who I am. Great. So who are you then? A person who is demonstrating that they believe someone else should do all the work of looking inside a person to find out who they are. Someone, basically whose attitude to finding someone is lazy or self-satisfied? Someone who can't even be bothered to make a quite simple effort?

And for god's sake some of you hysterical chronic over-reactors out there. By asking you to make a bit more of an effort, I am not asking any of you to leap out and buy a pair of Jimmy Choos, a tight skirt and a see though blouse - nor an Armani suit, a silk shirt and hand tooled Italian leather shoes, or whatever. Not unless you want to. But like it or not, what you wear can help or hinder you, so why let it hinder you? What are you trying to prove by doing that?

And finally on this issue. Those I-don't-want-to-put-something nicer-on people out there seem to me to be taking so much account of what they think they should be wearing, so much belief that the clothes you wear totally reflect your inner beingness of independent contrariness, tough independent woman-ness or whatever, then basically you are sounding as trivial and clothes-obsessed as the most air-headed little teenagers in the high-school, who would throw a strop and refuse to go out unless wearing the latest must-have fashion item. Not the same you say. Babies, I think it is pretty much exactly the same coin. The other side of it.

So is this rant about clothes your THIRD tip, jaguarundi?

Also, if dressing up for a relationship is a job, what exactly is the type of attire we are supposed to be wearning? Business, business-casual, casual, slovenly?

Well if you're a woman, a low-cut shirt with your ****s hanging out, a skirt or tight jeans and heels. And don't forget to do your hair. And shave your legs and pits. Maybe some earrings and a bracelet too. Better lotion up while you're at it so you smell pretty and are young-looking. And don't forget a pedicure if you're wearing open toe shoes.
Any more questions?

Ok, I'm kidding. Sort of.

-Teresa

 

[Batman55]

So is this rant about clothes your THIRD tip, jaguarundi?

Also, if dressing up for a relationship is a job, what exactly is the type of attire we are supposed to be wearning? Business, business-casual, casual, slovenly?

Tis a good question, I think her answer for that though is we need to do the work in terms of finding a dress code that both makes us look like we fit in, and also conveys a bit of confidence. In some twisted logic, it seems that it works out that the two points go together. In other words, wear what "most other guys would wear" and that seems to convey some level of confidence.

There's also "go extreme" and wear stuff that very few people would wear, that also conveys confidence (with some attitude) but I don't like to stand out, so unfortunately the only option for me is to be some kind of follower. "Checkered shorts in the summer" then, "vests in the winter." I still think I would look ridiculous wearing either item!